A campus infected with hostility: A professor says he's been targeted for being a con

Graham2001 · 16th February 2019, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Each time I walk into my office at Kingsborough Community College, I draw inspiration from a picture of my father, Leon Goldstein, the school’s president for 29 years and the man who built the college’s modern-day campus.

Yet in recent months, anti-Semites turned my father’s photo from a source of inspiration into a symbol of destruction. The vandalism marked the start of a systematic and pernicious campaign in which I have been targeted and harassed because of who I am and what I believe.

https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/...qo5JMWRYPWPJdM

dann · 16th February 2019, 04:28 AM

What is he and what does he believe? (The article can't be accessed in Europe!)

baron · 16th February 2019, 04:33 AM

Convict?
Con Artist?
Condom Salesman?

I can't see the article either.

Matthew Best · 16th February 2019, 04:35 AM

I can't see it either, but it's almost certainly "conservative", right?

Shepherd · 16th February 2019, 04:43 AM

I can see it! "conservative Jew"

Information Analyst · 16th February 2019, 04:45 AM

I assumed it meant ex-convict.

Yet another US media site that can't be arsed with complying with GDPR, as if simply not collecting EU readers' personal data is somehow more difficult than diverting them to a "**** you" page....

casebro · 16th February 2019, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by Graham2001

https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/...qo5JMWRYPWPJdM

......

The reason for their attack? I’m Jewish, politically conservative and I believe in Zionism, the civil rights movement of the Jewish people.

The vandals defaced a photo of my father with anti-Semitic graffiti, including the words “F--k Trump Goldstein, Kill the Zionist Entity.” I later learned the incident came one day after Kingsborough Professor Katia Perea apparently told an administrator who refused her request to fire me, “I guess I will have to handle this myself."

........

Now to look for a pic of Katia Peria....

Dr. Perea is an Associate Professor of Sociology at CUNY (City University New York) and is currently working on her book “Girl Cartoons” due out soon!

Feminist/ Anti Jewish civil rights?

Or is this another Race Grifter Hoax?

Puppycow · 16th February 2019, 05:27 PM

I ask the Moderators' indulgence to quote from the OP article at length (not the entirety) due to the unusual circumstance that some forum members cannot view it.

Quote:

A campus infected with hostility: A professor says he's been targeted for being a conservative Jew
By MICHAEL GOLDSTEIN
FEB 13, 2019

I’ve worked at Kingsborough for 20 years, and within the City University of New York network for 30 years. The anti-Semitic vandalism and death threat perpetrated outside my office this past February was unlike anything I’ve experienced before.
The reason for their attack? I’m Jewish, politically conservative and I believe in Zionism, the civil rights movement of the Jewish people.
The vandals defaced a photo of my father with anti-Semitic graffiti, including the words “**** Trump Goldstein, Kill the Zionist Entity.” I later learned the incident came one day after Kingsborough Professor Katia Perea apparently told an administrator who refused her request to fire me, “I guess I will have to handle this myself."
Perea, whom I have never met or spoken to, is a member of the Progressive Faculty Caucus, a radical faculty group at Kingsborough.

Quote:

This was my jarring introduction to the PFC and its unending campaign of harassment and belittlement. It was also my introduction to the inertia of the Kingsborough and CUNY administrations. Kingsborough declined to classify February’s anti-Semitic vandalism as a hate crime and denied my requests for added security.
This was just the beginning.
In May, more than 1,000 flyers were distributed around campus calling for my firing and attributing vile, false allegations of racism, sexism and anti-Muslim sentiments to me.
I’ve never promoted any of my private or religious opinions in the classroom — or anywhere else on campus. Nor have I held any of the hateful views the flyers attached to me. In her earlier attempt to get me fired, Perea went from office to office showing staff my private Facebook photos as her “evidence” that I’m racist and sexist. The PFC’s efforts then escalated into what the flyers described as an imperative to “build a movement” against me.
And that’s exactly what it has been — an orchestrated, aggressive movement to destroy me. May’s flyers included a picture of my 13-year-old daughter. I’ve chaired a food committee at Kingsborough for eight years, and suddenly, a PFC member new to the committee began investigating my activity.

Quote:

The PFC shows no signs of abating until I’m removed from Kingsborough, my second home for 20 years. They freely admit to their targeted harassment of me, and they are proud of it. For that reason, with the help of The Lawfare Project, I filed a complaint with the EEOC and the NY State Division of Human Rights.

Those last two links if you follow them are pretty eyebrow-raising. (Link 1) (Link 2)

The Anti-Goldstein faculty bloc claims that they are "fighting for a communist ‘paradise’ on earth"

Quote:

PLP fights for a communist ‘paradise’ on earth
The fightbacks of this past semester have presented serious struggles in gaining confidence in the working class. Many students and cafeteria workers, like masses of workers around the world, are depressed, cynical, and hopeless. Many are won over to different forms of individualism and escapism.
Some believe in Islam’s promise of a paradise after death. There are open communist atheists (and a pro-communist Christian) side-by-side with them in struggle who also break fasts and break bread together during this month of Ramadan. Together, they provide a glimpse that a communist “paradise on earth” is worth fighting for. Unlike a religious paradise, there will be many problems and struggles under communism, all to be solved in the interest of and by the world’s working class.

pharphis · 16th February 2019, 07:03 PM

Can one archive.is the articles that can't be opened in some countries? Worth a shot

TragicMonkey · 16th February 2019, 07:19 PM

The opposition POV is worth reading. At one point they boast that it took twelve of them "less than a week" to write a leaflet. With such efficiency at creating powerful weapons I'm certain they'll have their communist paradise established in much less than a hundred thousand years.

Which may be long enough for someone to explain to them why college students aren't working class.

Bob001 · 16th February 2019, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

.....
Which may be long enough for someone to explain to them why college students aren't working class.

Not necessarily so. When a kid is the first generation in his family to attend college, particularly a community college, he very likely is working class. Not all colleges are in the Ivy League, and not all kids get fat allowances from rich parents.

Lambchops · 16th February 2019, 11:46 PM

Lol, I thought this would be about Jordan Peterson. Because he is most definitely a con. As in "con man".

dann · 17th February 2019, 01:03 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Quote:

I’m Jewish, politically conservative and I believe in Zionism, the civil rights movement of the Jewish people.

"Civil rights movement"??!

Quote:

Zionism (Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת‬ Tsiyyonut [t͡sijo̞ˈnut] after Zion) is the national movement of the Jewish people that supports the re-establishment of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the historic Land of Israel (roughly corresponding to Canaan, the Holy Land, or the region of Palestine).
Zionism (Wikipedia)

Darat · 17th February 2019, 02:28 AM

Surely many of the protestors' actions are illegal?

smartcooky · 17th February 2019, 03:09 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Surely many of the protestors' actions are illegal?

Yep.

Using a 13 year old girl's image in protest pamphlets without the permission of her parents will run you into all sorts of legal difficulties under child protection laws. I don't know what those laws are like in the USA, but I can tell you that if I did that in this country, I would be up in front of the judge in very short order, where I would certainly cop a very large fine, and maybe jail time.

Goldstein might already have legal recourse against Dr. Peria and her cohorts right there.

Civet · 17th February 2019, 04:07 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Surely many of the protestors' actions are illegal?

That one act of vandalism described is unambiguously illegal. The articles I'm seeing don't seem to actually reproduce or extensively quote the leaflet that was distributed, so I don't think we can know if anything in there was illegal or not. There's certainly nothing generally unlawful about calling on a university prof to be fired for expressing political beliefs that some folks find offensive.

TragicMonkey · 17th February 2019, 06:52 AM

Originally Posted by Bob001

Not necessarily so. When a kid is the first generation in his family to attend college, particularly a community college, he very likely is working class. Not all colleges are in the Ivy League, and not all kids get fat allowances from rich parents.

He may have been from working class origins, but attending college moves him up to the middle class. At least while he's there. He may fail to get a middle class job and fall back to working class afterward.

sphenisc · 17th February 2019, 10:52 AM

17 posts in and no references to "two minutes hate". What is wrong with you people?

qayak · 17th February 2019, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by Lambchops

Lol, I thought this would be about Jordan Peterson. Because he is most definitely a con. As in "con man".

For someone you claim is a con, SJWs sure have trouble showing any evidence of it. It is especially satisfying to watch videos of them trying and Peterson just destroying their childish logic.

theprestige · 17th February 2019, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by sphenisc

17 posts in and no references to "two minutes hate". What is wrong with you people?

Consider it referenced. It was obvious enough. figured someone would be along sooner or later to tick the box. And I was right.

Information Analyst · 17th February 2019, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

I ask the Moderators' indulgence to quote from the OP article at length (not the entirety) due to the unusual circumstance that some forum members cannot view it.

Quote:

I’m Jewish, politically conservative and I believe in Zionism, the civil rights movement of the Jewish people.

Err... that's not what Zionism is.

Quote:

I later learned the incident came one day after Kingsborough Professor Katia Perea apparently told an administrator who refused her request to fire me, “I guess I will have to handle this myself."

I know US employment laws are crap, but even this sounds like a bizarre demand.

Information Analyst · 17th February 2019, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Surely many of the protestors' actions are illegal?

Well, in the rest of the English-speaking world outside of the USA, maybe....

crescent · 17th February 2019, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by Information Analyst

Err... that's not what Zionism is.

I know US employment laws are crap, but even this sounds like a bizarre demand.

On one side you've got a guy who can't separate criticism of Israel from anti-antisemitism. On the other side, you've got people who seem to yearn for the days of the USSR, who also seem to think that Islam is inherently compatible with communism.

It seems like a group of argumentative ideologues managed to get in an argument with a lone argumentative ideologue.

That said, Goldstein does not seem to have done anything to target the members of the PFC; those that are students seem to students in good standing. Goldstein wants protection from them but there is not anything to indicate that he has sought to expel any of them.

Bob001 · 17th February 2019, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

He may have been from working class origins, but attending college moves him up to the middle class. At least while he's there. He may fail to get a middle class job and fall back to working class afterward.

If you think social class is that malleable, you don't know what it means. Getting a college degree might move someone into the middle class -- maybe -- but not just taking some courses.

Puppycow · 17th February 2019, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by dann

"Civil rights movement"??!

Originally Posted by Information Analyst

Err... that's not what Zionism is.

I wouldn't call it that, but I'm not surprised that a hardcore Zionist would see it that way. I bet white nationalists also think of white nationalism as a civil rights movement for white people. I agree that it's silly, but fervent believers in these ideologies probably think that way. It makes it easier to be righteously indignant in the face of criticism.

On the other side though, you have people who say they want "a communist paradise on earth". I trust that I don't have to explain how insane that is. Communism is an Orwellian dystopia. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, the Kim dynasty all show what communism really is in practice.

Graham2001 · 18th February 2019, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by smartcooky

Yep.

Using a 13 year old girl's image in protest pamphlets without the permission of her parents will run you into all sorts of legal difficulties under child protection laws. I don't know what those laws are like in the USA, but I can tell you that if I did that in this country, I would be up in front of the judge in very short order, where I would certainly cop a very large fine, and maybe jail time.

Goldstein might already have legal recourse against Dr. Peria and her cohorts right there.

Well you have to remember that most SJWs seem to believe in collective racial guilt, so that 13 year old girl is as guilty of her ancestors crimes as any other People of Non-Color (Jewish Race).

ahhell · 18th February 2019, 08:07 AM

Quote:

The reason for their attack? I’m Jewish, politically conservative and I believe in Zionism, the civil rights movement of the Jewish people.

Originally Posted by dann

"Civil rights movement"??!

Yep, that one caught my attention too. If what he says is true in the rest of the article, I don't like any of the actors in this play. If what he says is half accurate, the The PLF or whatever they call themselves are worse though.

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

He may have been from working class origins, but attending college moves him up to the middle class. At least while he's there. He may fail to get a middle class job and fall back to working class afterward.

What? I'm guessing you don't know what a community college is.

Originally Posted by Bob001

If you think social class is that malleable, you don't know what it means. Getting a college degree might move someone into the middle class -- maybe -- but not just taking some courses.

This.

TragicMonkey · 18th February 2019, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by ahhell

What? I'm guessing you don't know what a community college is.

Definitions of class are to some degree subjective. I consider working class to be those who work in a factory, mine, or farm all day. Not those who have time and money to attend college, even community ones, although I don't think the college in question is a community college. From that perspective I consider attending college, even community college, as movement into the middle class.

Eta: oh, I see it is a community college. For some reason I thought this was a SUNY campus. My mistake.

dann · 18th February 2019, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by ahhell

The PLF or whatever they call themselves

Maybe ... or ...

catsmate · 18th February 2019, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by qayak

For someone you claim is a con, SJWs sure have trouble showing any evidence of it. It is especially satisfying to watch videos of them trying and Peterson just destroying their childish logic.

I have yet to see evidence of Paterson "destroying" any argument.

Originally Posted by Graham2001

Well you have to remember that most SJWs seem to believe in collective racial guilt, so that 13 year old girl is as guilty of her ancestors crimes as any other People of Non-Color (Jewish Race).

PhantomWolf · 18th February 2019, 03:07 PM

This is why I have a strong hatred of all "-isms". No Ideology has all the answers, and seldom does the truth lies at any of the extreme positions that "-isms" want to take.

The only true working society is one that is a mixture of ideals, that looks at a problem and solves with the best solution, not the one that their particular brand of "-ism" demands.

And this means that you need people from all walks of life, even those that you vehemently disagree with most of the time, because on occasion, their ideas will be the ones that fit a particular problem, and if you have brow beaten and chased them away, then you no longer have that resource when you need it later.

luchog · 18th February 2019, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Definitions of class are to some degree subjective. I consider working class to be those who work in a factory, mine, or farm all day. Not those who have time and money to attend college, even community ones, although I don't think the college in question is a community college. From that perspective I consider attending college, even community college, as movement into the middle class.

Attending a community college via a financial aid program, while not being able to afford both food and rent in the same month, is not "movement into the middle class". There are a lot of working class people who attend college thanks to government financial aid programs, who would not otherwise have been able to afford it.

Skeptic Ginger · 18th February 2019, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by sphenisc

17 posts in and no references to "two minutes hate". What is wrong with you people?

I'm still trying to process Katia Peria. I thought the name was a joke.

The Norseman · 18th February 2019, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

On the other side though, you have people who say they want "a communist paradise on earth". I trust that I don't have to explain how insane that is. Communism is an Orwellian dystopia. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, the Kim dynasty all show what communism really is in practice.

No, those show what dictatorships are like in practice. It's confusing to many, apparently, but sometimes what groups say are different that what they do.

TragicMonkey · 18th February 2019, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by luchog

Attending a community college via a financial aid program, while not being able to afford both food and rent in the same month, is not "movement into the middle class". There are a lot of working class people who attend college thanks to government financial aid programs, who would not otherwise have been able to afford it.

I never said the middle class was automatically better off than the working class. Going to college (and yes, that includes attending on financial aid) is something specifically designed to move one into the middle class (or better) or keep you there if already in it.

The working class people who go to college are not doing it to stay in the working class.

Bob001 · 18th February 2019, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Definitions of class are to some degree subjective. I consider working class to be those who work in a factory, mine, or farm all day.
.....

Class has as much to do with formal education and outlook as with money. The average journeyman plumber or electrician makes much more than the local high school English teacher who's still paying off his grad school loans, but the former would generally be considered working class and the teacher (struggling) middle class. On the other hand, if the plumber or electrician sent their kids to good schools where they did well, the kids would be middle class. Someone who grew up with college-educated professional parents will generally be considered middle-class, even if his current employment is unskilled labor. I would say social class is more a result of childhood and upbringing than your current bank balance. Again, a college degree might be a ticket into the middle class, at least historically; but someone who grew up in poverty and is able to sign up for a few classes doesn't suddenly jump up the social ladder.

TragicMonkey · 18th February 2019, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Bob001

Class has as much to do with formal education

I agree, that's why I say that attending college is a move towards the middle class.

Puppycow · 18th February 2019, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by The Norseman

No, those show what dictatorships are like in practice. It's confusing to many, apparently, but sometimes what groups say are different that what they do.

Can you name a single example of communism not leading to a dictatorship?

Puppycow · 18th February 2019, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf

This is why I have a strong hatred of all "-isms". No Ideology has all the answers, and seldom does the truth lies at any of the extreme positions that "-isms" want to take.

The only true working society is one that is a mixture of ideals, that looks at a problem and solves with the best solution, not the one that their particular brand of "-ism" demands.

And this means that you need people from all walks of life, even those that you vehemently disagree with most of the time, because on occasion, their ideas will be the ones that fit a particular problem, and if you have brow beaten and chased them away, then you no longer have that resource when you need it later.

Skepticism is an "ism" though.

smartcooky · 18th February 2019, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

I'm still trying to process Katia Peria. I thought the name was a joke.

You mean as in stitches?

16th February 2019, 04:04 AM	#1
Graham2001 Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,328	A campus infected with hostility: A professor says he's been targeted for being a con Quote: Each time I walk into my office at Kingsborough Community College, I draw inspiration from a picture of my father, Leon Goldstein, the school’s president for 29 years and the man who built the college’s modern-day campus. Yet in recent months, anti-Semites turned my father’s photo from a source of inspiration into a symbol of destruction. The vandalism marked the start of a systematic and pernicious campaign in which I have been targeted and harassed because of who I am and what I believe. https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/...qo5JMWRYPWPJdM
	__________________ "I need hard facts! Bring in the dowsers!" 'America Unearthed' Season 1, Episode 13: Hunt for the Holy Grail Everybody gets it wrong sometimes...

16th February 2019, 04:28 AM	#2
dann Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 13,569	What is he and what does he believe? (The article can't be accessed in Europe!)
	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

16th February 2019, 04:33 AM	#3
baron Guest Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 8,627	Convict? Con Artist? Condom Salesman? I can't see the article either.
baron Guest Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 8,627

16th February 2019, 04:43 AM	#5
Shepherd Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 362	I can see it! "conservative Jew"
Shepherd Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 362

16th February 2019, 04:45 AM	#6
Information Analyst Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure... Posts: 10,099	I assumed it meant ex-convict. Yet another US media site that can't be arsed with complying with GDPR, as if simply not collecting EU readers' personal data is somehow more difficult than diverting them to a "**** you" page....
	Last edited by Information Analyst; 16th February 2019 at 04:48 AM.

16th February 2019, 04:35 AM	#4
Matthew Best Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Leicester Square, London Posts: 8,203	I can't see it either, but it's almost certainly "conservative", right?

16th February 2019, 04:25 PM	#7
casebro Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 18,647	Originally Posted by Graham2001 https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/...qo5JMWRYPWPJdM ...... The reason for their attack? I’m Jewish, politically conservative and I believe in Zionism, the civil rights movement of the Jewish people. The vandals defaced a photo of my father with anti-Semitic graffiti, including the words “F--k Trump Goldstein, Kill the Zionist Entity.” I later learned the incident came one day after Kingsborough Professor Katia Perea apparently told an administrator who refused her request to fire me, “I guess I will have to handle this myself." ........ Now to look for a pic of Katia Peria.... Dr. Perea is an Associate Professor of Sociology at CUNY (City University New York) and is currently working on her book “Girl Cartoons” due out soon! Feminist/ Anti Jewish civil rights? Or is this another Race Grifter Hoax?
	__________________ Any sufficiently advanced idea is indistinguishable from idiocy to those who don't actually understanding the concept.

16th February 2019, 05:27 PM	#8
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 25,739	I ask the Moderators' indulgence to quote from the OP article at length (not the entirety) due to the unusual circumstance that some forum members cannot view it. Quote: A campus infected with hostility: A professor says he's been targeted for being a conservative Jew By MICHAEL GOLDSTEIN FEB 13, 2019 I’ve worked at Kingsborough for 20 years, and within the City University of New York network for 30 years. The anti-Semitic vandalism and death threat perpetrated outside my office this past February was unlike anything I’ve experienced before. The reason for their attack? I’m Jewish, politically conservative and I believe in Zionism, the civil rights movement of the Jewish people. The vandals defaced a photo of my father with anti-Semitic graffiti, including the words “**** Trump Goldstein, Kill the Zionist Entity.” I later learned the incident came one day after Kingsborough Professor Katia Perea apparently told an administrator who refused her request to fire me, “I guess I will have to handle this myself." Perea, whom I have never met or spoken to, is a member of the Progressive Faculty Caucus, a radical faculty group at Kingsborough. Quote: This was my jarring introduction to the PFC and its unending campaign of harassment and belittlement. It was also my introduction to the inertia of the Kingsborough and CUNY administrations. Kingsborough declined to classify February’s anti-Semitic vandalism as a hate crime and denied my requests for added security. This was just the beginning. In May, more than 1,000 flyers were distributed around campus calling for my firing and attributing vile, false allegations of racism, sexism and anti-Muslim sentiments to me. I’ve never promoted any of my private or religious opinions in the classroom — or anywhere else on campus. Nor have I held any of the hateful views the flyers attached to me. In her earlier attempt to get me fired, Perea went from office to office showing staff my private Facebook photos as her “evidence” that I’m racist and sexist. The PFC’s efforts then escalated into what the flyers described as an imperative to “build a movement” against me. And that’s exactly what it has been — an orchestrated, aggressive movement to destroy me. May’s flyers included a picture of my 13-year-old daughter. I’ve chaired a food committee at Kingsborough for eight years, and suddenly, a PFC member new to the committee began investigating my activity. Quote: The PFC shows no signs of abating until I’m removed from Kingsborough, my second home for 20 years. They freely admit to their targeted harassment of me, and they are proud of it. For that reason, with the help of The Lawfare Project, I filed a complaint with the EEOC and the NY State Division of Human Rights. Those last two links if you follow them are pretty eyebrow-raising. (Link 1) (Link 2) The Anti-Goldstein faculty bloc claims that they are "fighting for a communist ‘paradise’ on earth" Quote: PLP fights for a communist ‘paradise’ on earth The fightbacks of this past semester have presented serious struggles in gaining confidence in the working class. Many students and cafeteria workers, like masses of workers around the world, are depressed, cynical, and hopeless. Many are won over to different forms of individualism and escapism. Some believe in Islam’s promise of a paradise after death. There are open communist atheists (and a pro-communist Christian) side-by-side with them in struggle who also break fasts and break bread together during this month of Ramadan. Together, they provide a glimpse that a communist “paradise on earth” is worth fighting for. Unlike a religious paradise, there will be many problems and struggles under communism, all to be solved in the interest of and by the world’s working class.
	__________________ A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare Last edited by Puppycow; 16th February 2019 at 05:28 PM.

16th February 2019, 07:03 PM	#9
pharphis Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 2,169	Can one archive.is the articles that can't be opened in some countries? Worth a shot
pharphis Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 2,169

16th February 2019, 07:19 PM	#10
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,464	The opposition POV is worth reading. At one point they boast that it took twelve of them "less than a week" to write a leaflet. With such efficiency at creating powerful weapons I'm certain they'll have their communist paradise established in much less than a hundred thousand years. Which may be long enough for someone to explain to them why college students aren't working class.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

16th February 2019, 10:29 PM	#11
Bob001 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: US of A Posts: 12,627	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey ..... Which may be long enough for someone to explain to them why college students aren't working class. Not necessarily so. When a kid is the first generation in his family to attend college, particularly a community college, he very likely is working class. Not all colleges are in the Ivy League, and not all kids get fat allowances from rich parents.

16th February 2019, 11:46 PM	#12
Lambchops Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Norvegr Posts: 1,384	Lol, I thought this would be about Jordan Peterson. Because he is most definitely a con. As in "con man".
	__________________ Your grandchildren will be brown, trans, and Islamo-Communist.

17th February 2019, 01:03 AM	#13
dann Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 13,569	Originally Posted by Puppycow Quote: I’m Jewish, politically conservative and I believe in Zionism, the civil rights movement of the Jewish people. "Civil rights movement"??! Quote: Zionism (Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת‬ Tsiyyonut [t͡sijo̞ˈnut] after Zion) is the national movement of the Jewish people that supports the re-establishment of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the historic Land of Israel (roughly corresponding to Canaan, the Holy Land, or the region of Palestine). Zionism (Wikipedia)
	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

17th February 2019, 02:28 AM	#14
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 96,964	Surely many of the protestors' actions are illegal?
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

17th February 2019, 03:09 AM	#15
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 16,790	Originally Posted by Darat Surely many of the protestors' actions are illegal? Yep. Using a 13 year old girl's image in protest pamphlets without the permission of her parents will run you into all sorts of legal difficulties under child protection laws. I don't know what those laws are like in the USA, but I can tell you that if I did that in this country, I would be up in front of the judge in very short order, where I would certainly cop a very large fine, and maybe jail time. Goldstein might already have legal recourse against Dr. Peria and her cohorts right there.
	__________________ I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms. - Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project) If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

17th February 2019, 04:07 AM	#16
Civet Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,657	Originally Posted by Darat Surely many of the protestors' actions are illegal? That one act of vandalism described is unambiguously illegal. The articles I'm seeing don't seem to actually reproduce or extensively quote the leaflet that was distributed, so I don't think we can know if anything in there was illegal or not. There's certainly nothing generally unlawful about calling on a university prof to be fired for expressing political beliefs that some folks find offensive.
Civet Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,657

17th February 2019, 06:52 AM	#17
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,464	Originally Posted by Bob001 Not necessarily so. When a kid is the first generation in his family to attend college, particularly a community college, he very likely is working class. Not all colleges are in the Ivy League, and not all kids get fat allowances from rich parents. He may have been from working class origins, but attending college moves him up to the middle class. At least while he's there. He may fail to get a middle class job and fall back to working class afterward.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

17th February 2019, 10:52 AM	#18
sphenisc Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,384	17 posts in and no references to "two minutes hate". What is wrong with you people?
sphenisc Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,384	__________________ "The cure for everything is salt water - tears, sweat or the sea." Isak Dinesen

17th February 2019, 10:54 AM	#19
qayak Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 13,746	Originally Posted by Lambchops Lol, I thought this would be about Jordan Peterson. Because he is most definitely a con. As in "con man". For someone you claim is a con, SJWs sure have trouble showing any evidence of it. It is especially satisfying to watch videos of them trying and Peterson just destroying their childish logic.
	__________________ "How long you live, how high you fly The smiles you'll give, and tears you'll cry And all you touch, and all you see Is all your life will ever be."

17th February 2019, 11:04 AM	#20
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 49,601	Originally Posted by sphenisc 17 posts in and no references to "two minutes hate". What is wrong with you people? Consider it referenced. It was obvious enough. figured someone would be along sooner or later to tick the box. And I was right.

17th February 2019, 11:34 AM	#21
Information Analyst Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure... Posts: 10,099	Originally Posted by Puppycow I ask the Moderators' indulgence to quote from the OP article at length (not the entirety) due to the unusual circumstance that some forum members cannot view it. Quote: I’m Jewish, politically conservative and I believe in Zionism, the civil rights movement of the Jewish people. Err... that's not what Zionism is. Quote: Quote: I later learned the incident came one day after Kingsborough Professor Katia Perea apparently told an administrator who refused her request to fire me, “I guess I will have to handle this myself." I know US employment laws are crap, but even this sounds like a bizarre demand.

17th February 2019, 11:37 AM	#22
Information Analyst Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure... Posts: 10,099	Originally Posted by Darat Surely many of the protestors' actions are illegal? Well, in the rest of the English-speaking world outside of the USA, maybe....

17th February 2019, 03:30 PM	#23
crescent Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Colorado Posts: 3,977	Originally Posted by Information Analyst Err... that's not what Zionism is. I know US employment laws are crap, but even this sounds like a bizarre demand. On one side you've got a guy who can't separate criticism of Israel from anti-antisemitism. On the other side, you've got people who seem to yearn for the days of the USSR, who also seem to think that Islam is inherently compatible with communism. It seems like a group of argumentative ideologues managed to get in an argument with a lone argumentative ideologue. That said, Goldstein does not seem to have done anything to target the members of the PFC; those that are students seem to students in good standing. Goldstein wants protection from them but there is not anything to indicate that he has sought to expel any of them.

17th February 2019, 04:44 PM	#24
Bob001 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: US of A Posts: 12,627	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey He may have been from working class origins, but attending college moves him up to the middle class. At least while he's there. He may fail to get a middle class job and fall back to working class afterward. If you think social class is that malleable, you don't know what it means. Getting a college degree might move someone into the middle class -- maybe -- but not just taking some courses.

17th February 2019, 05:03 PM	#25
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 25,739	Originally Posted by dann "Civil rights movement"??! Originally Posted by Information Analyst Err... that's not what Zionism is. I wouldn't call it that, but I'm not surprised that a hardcore Zionist would see it that way. I bet white nationalists also think of white nationalism as a civil rights movement for white people. I agree that it's silly, but fervent believers in these ideologies probably think that way. It makes it easier to be righteously indignant in the face of criticism. On the other side though, you have people who say they want "a communist paradise on earth". I trust that I don't have to explain how insane that is. Communism is an Orwellian dystopia. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, the Kim dynasty all show what communism really is in practice.
	__________________ A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare

18th February 2019, 06:58 AM	#26
Graham2001 Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,328	Originally Posted by smartcooky Yep. Using a 13 year old girl's image in protest pamphlets without the permission of her parents will run you into all sorts of legal difficulties under child protection laws. I don't know what those laws are like in the USA, but I can tell you that if I did that in this country, I would be up in front of the judge in very short order, where I would certainly cop a very large fine, and maybe jail time. Goldstein might already have legal recourse against Dr. Peria and her cohorts right there. Well you have to remember that most SJWs seem to believe in collective racial guilt, so that 13 year old girl is as guilty of her ancestors crimes as any other People of Non-Color (Jewish Race).
	__________________ "I need hard facts! Bring in the dowsers!" 'America Unearthed' Season 1, Episode 13: Hunt for the Holy Grail Everybody gets it wrong sometimes...

18th February 2019, 08:07 AM	#27
ahhell Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 3,408	Quote: The reason for their attack? I’m Jewish, politically conservative and I believe in Zionism, the civil rights movement of the Jewish people. Originally Posted by dann "Civil rights movement"??! Yep, that one caught my attention too. If what he says is true in the rest of the article, I don't like any of the actors in this play. If what he says is half accurate, the The PLF or whatever they call themselves are worse though. Originally Posted by TragicMonkey He may have been from working class origins, but attending college moves him up to the middle class. At least while he's there. He may fail to get a middle class job and fall back to working class afterward. What? I'm guessing you don't know what a community college is. Originally Posted by Bob001 If you think social class is that malleable, you don't know what it means. Getting a college degree might move someone into the middle class -- maybe -- but not just taking some courses. This.
ahhell Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 3,408

18th February 2019, 08:36 AM	#28
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,464	Originally Posted by ahhell What? I'm guessing you don't know what a community college is. Definitions of class are to some degree subjective. I consider working class to be those who work in a factory, mine, or farm all day. Not those who have time and money to attend college, even community ones, although I don't think the college in question is a community college. From that perspective I consider attending college, even community college, as movement into the middle class. Eta: oh, I see it is a community college. For some reason I thought this was a SUNY campus. My mistake.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. Last edited by TragicMonkey; 18th February 2019 at 08:37 AM.

18th February 2019, 09:49 AM	#29
dann Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 13,569	Originally Posted by ahhell The PLF or whatever they call themselves Maybe ... or ...
	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx Last edited by dann; 18th February 2019 at 09:51 AM.

18th February 2019, 10:28 AM	#30
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,837	Originally Posted by qayak For someone you claim is a con, SJWs sure have trouble showing any evidence of it. It is especially satisfying to watch videos of them trying and Peterson just destroying their childish logic. I have yet to see evidence of Paterson "destroying" any argument. Originally Posted by Graham2001 Well you have to remember that most SJWs seem to believe in collective racial guilt, so that 13 year old girl is as guilty of her ancestors crimes as any other People of Non-Color (Jewish Race).
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

18th February 2019, 03:07 PM	#31
PhantomWolf Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 20,279	This is why I have a strong hatred of all "-isms". No Ideology has all the answers, and seldom does the truth lies at any of the extreme positions that "-isms" want to take. The only true working society is one that is a mixture of ideals, that looks at a problem and solves with the best solution, not the one that their particular brand of "-ism" demands. And this means that you need people from all walks of life, even those that you vehemently disagree with most of the time, because on occasion, their ideas will be the ones that fit a particular problem, and if you have brow beaten and chased them away, then you no longer have that resource when you need it later.
	__________________ It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

18th February 2019, 03:21 PM	#32
luchog Neo-Post-Retro-Revivalist Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Emerald City Posts: 16,201	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey Definitions of class are to some degree subjective. I consider working class to be those who work in a factory, mine, or farm all day. Not those who have time and money to attend college, even community ones, although I don't think the college in question is a community college. From that perspective I consider attending college, even community college, as movement into the middle class. Attending a community college via a financial aid program, while not being able to afford both food and rent in the same month, is not "movement into the middle class". There are a lot of working class people who attend college thanks to government financial aid programs, who would not otherwise have been able to afford it.
	__________________ When you say that fascists should only be defeated through debate, what you're really saying is that the marginalized and vulnerable should have to endlessly argue for their right to exist; and at no point should they ever be fully accepted, and the debate considered won.

18th February 2019, 03:28 PM	#33
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86,889	Originally Posted by sphenisc 17 posts in and no references to "two minutes hate". What is wrong with you people? I'm still trying to process Katia Peria. I thought the name was a joke.

18th February 2019, 03:28 PM	#34
The Norseman Meandering fecklessly Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,424	Originally Posted by Puppycow On the other side though, you have people who say they want "a communist paradise on earth". I trust that I don't have to explain how insane that is. Communism is an Orwellian dystopia. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, the Kim dynasty all show what communism really is in practice. No, those show what dictatorships are like in practice. It's confusing to many, apparently, but sometimes what groups say are different that what they do.

18th February 2019, 03:40 PM	#35
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,464	Originally Posted by luchog Attending a community college via a financial aid program, while not being able to afford both food and rent in the same month, is not "movement into the middle class". There are a lot of working class people who attend college thanks to government financial aid programs, who would not otherwise have been able to afford it. I never said the middle class was automatically better off than the working class. Going to college (and yes, that includes attending on financial aid) is something specifically designed to move one into the middle class (or better) or keep you there if already in it. The working class people who go to college are not doing it to stay in the working class.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.