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Tags diebold , election conspiracies , voting issues , voting machines

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Old 27th November 2007, 07:24 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME View Post
The joke is on those that think elections are real.
Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME View Post
I am arguing for continuing with the current safeguards.
So you believe that the elections are rigged and voting means nothing, but you're perfectly happy to carry on exactly the same as before.

What is it about conspiracists that they complain about the biggest, most horrific conspiracies to kill, steal and control the world, but never seem to actually worry about it in the slightest, let alone bother to do anything about it?

"I believe the government commited the biggest attack on American soil, so I'm going to post a video on YouTube."
"I believe a secret order controls the whole world and disappears anyone who talks about them, so I'm going to sit at home and post about it on a completely unsecure network."
"I believe the elections are all rigged and democracy is a sham, so I think we should carry on in exactly the same way as before."

It's just plain weird.

Last edited by Cuddles; 27th November 2007 at 07:25 AM.
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Old 1st December 2007, 05:57 AM   #162
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I AGREE

Can someone move this thread back to politics since it isn't
a conspiracy theory:

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I AGREE

Last edited by Oliver; 1st December 2007 at 05:57 AM.
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Old 1st December 2007, 09:08 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by Cuddles View Post
So you believe that the elections are rigged and voting means nothing, but you're perfectly happy to carry on exactly the same as before.
Each of those statements were addressing specific points.

I would recommend you attempt to follow the conversation.
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Old 1st December 2007, 09:09 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
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I AGREE

Can someone move this thread back to politics since it isn't
a conspiracy theory:

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I AGREE
Because it is easy to dismiss if it is labeled conspiracy.
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Old 2nd December 2007, 02:52 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
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I AGREE

Can someone move this thread back to politics since it isn't
a conspiracy theory:

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I AGREE
No, it's kookery. Interesting kookery but kookery nonetheless. I like the bit about how it's only 100 lines of code at max; that is unless they have safety measures built in to foil hackers....
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Old 2nd December 2007, 06:24 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
No, it's kookery. Interesting kookery but kookery nonetheless. I like the bit about how it's only 100 lines of code at max; that is unless they have safety measures built in to foil hackers....
Congress has kooks that have worked for NASA testify before them?
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Old 2nd December 2007, 04:26 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME View Post
Congress has kooks that have worked for NASA testify before them?
Clinton Curtis, the guy testifying in the first video, is a kook.

Quote:
Some details of Curtis' statements don't check out. West Palm Beach city didn't use touch-screen machines in 2000, something Curtis didn't know when Wired News spoke to him. It was the pregnant chad controversy in that year's presidential election that led Palm Beach county, where West Palm Beach resides, to replace its much-maligned punch-card system with touch-screen machines made by Sequoia Voting Systems in December 2001.

But Curtis said the program could have been adapted for use in the counting software used with punch-card machines and optical scan machines, or it could have been used on the new touch-screen machines in 2002, the year Feeney was elected to Congress.

Adam Stubblefield, a graduate student in computer science at Johns Hopkins University who co-authored a now-famous report (.pdf) about Diebold's voting machine code last year, thinks the chances that Curtis' code was used in a voting machine are nil.

"(Curtis) clearly didn't have the source code to any voting machine, and his program is so trivial that it would be much easier to rewrite it than to rework it," said Stubblefield.
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Old 2nd December 2007, 04:54 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Clinton Curtis, the guy testifying in the first video, is a kook.
Are you really taking the word of "Yang attorney"; do you not understand this is like saying "Jones attorney"?
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Old 2nd December 2007, 08:31 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
Well your dollar is called a Loony.
[Nitpick] Actually, it is colloquially referred to as the Loonie. [/Nitpick]

Last edited by LashL; 2nd December 2007 at 08:32 PM.
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Old 2nd December 2007, 08:47 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by LashL View Post
[Nitpick] Actually, it is colloquially referred to as the Loonie. [/Nitpick]
Not in America. We prefer looney.
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Old 2nd December 2007, 09:40 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME View Post
Not in America. We prefer looney.
And when it was worth $1.10 U.S. not so long ago, who was laughing then, eh?
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Old 3rd December 2007, 06:14 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by Corsair 115 View Post
And when it was worth $1.10 U.S. not so long ago, who was laughing then, eh?
Don't be bringing facts!
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Old 3rd December 2007, 06:24 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Clinton Curtis, the guy testifying in the first video, is a kook.
So its not possible to have malicios code put onto voting machines?

****, I can probably create a code like that.
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Old 3rd December 2007, 09:24 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by lee5 View Post
So its not possible to have malicios code put onto voting machines?

****, I can probably create a code like that.
I'm pretty sure that anyone with some modest programming experience could create a code that could (for example) discard every 10th vote for a particular candidate, no need for an advanced Computer Science degree to do that.

The question is, how would you get that code to where it needed to be? I think that some of these CTs about the malicious code in voting machines assume that theres only one or two programmers within the DieBold company that ever see the source code for voting machines. DieBold has approximately 14,000 employees worldwide and about 400 service centers across the U.S. No doubt many of these are programmers, so if there were some sort of malicious code placed in a voting machine source code by some unscrupulous employee it would no doubt be detected at some point. Claiming that DieBold could somehow use the source code of the machine to change voting means that a LOT of people would be involved in said conspiracy, some of these folks would also be democrats.

Now I know people will claim that DieBold could be threatening dissenters within the company with termination (of their job or their life) but that's just making the CT more and more unlikely and unreasonable, and its basically an unfounded claim.
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Old 3rd December 2007, 12:40 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by Giggywig View Post
Hey, is this a preemptive "Ron Paul didn't lose because he lacks grassroots support but because they stole the election" excuse?

Coming From Oliver ,yes, although I don't think Ron Paul will get within striking distance of the GOP Nomination or the Presidency if he tries an independent run.
When,in a couple of Months, after the first few primaries, the Paul campaign fizzels,it will be fun to see Oliver's melt down.

Last edited by dudalb; 3rd December 2007 at 12:41 PM.
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Old 3rd December 2007, 04:50 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by Uncle Vanya View Post
I'm pretty sure that anyone with some modest programming experience could create a code that could (for example) discard every 10th vote for a particular candidate, no need for an advanced Computer Science degree to do that.

The question is, how would you get that code to where it needed to be? I think that some of these CTs about the malicious code in voting machines assume that theres only one or two programmers within the DieBold company that ever see the source code for voting machines. DieBold has approximately 14,000 employees worldwide and about 400 service centers across the U.S. No doubt many of these are programmers, so if there were some sort of malicious code placed in a voting machine source code by some unscrupulous employee it would no doubt be detected at some point. Claiming that DieBold could somehow use the source code of the machine to change voting means that a LOT of people would be involved in said conspiracy, some of these folks would also be democrats.

Now I know people will claim that DieBold could be threatening dissenters within the company with termination (of their job or their life) but that's just making the CT more and more unlikely and unreasonable, and its basically an unfounded claim.

Princeton scientists Hack Diebold
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Old 3rd December 2007, 07:41 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME View Post
Princeton scientists Hack Diebold
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Very interesting video, but if you go to the website posted in the video (I cant post links yet) and click on the FAQ you get these juicy tidbits:

Quote:
Have the vote-stealing methods you discuss ever been used in real elections?

Probably not, but we don't know for sure. We haven't seen evidence that these attacks have been used, but one lesson of our report is that the design of these voting technologies makes attacks relatively easy to cover up.

Do you think any recent major U.S. elections were stolen?

No. We know some people are claiming this happened, but we don't find their evidence convincing.

Basically, what they are showing is what could happen with this particular voting machine... they even say in their FAQ that they studied these particular machines because they were the only ones available to them. Now, I agree that these machines have some serious flaws in them, but many states have taken steps to prevent such abuses, in fact my home state came out with a report a few years ago (raba.com/press/TA_Report_AccuVote.pdf) on how to prevent scenarios like the ones the folks from Princeton were talking about.
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Old 4th December 2007, 01:55 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME View Post
Lyndon Baines Johnson of Texas.
When you make that reference, I recommend that you refer to Jim Wells County -- where dead men tell no tales, but they do vote -- since you referred to Cook County for the Chicago bit.

DR
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Old 4th December 2007, 06:42 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
When you make that reference, I recommend that you refer to Jim Wells County -- where dead men tell no tales, but they do vote -- since you referred to Cook County for the Chicago bit.

DR
I was not aware of the particular county in Texas, thanks. I did know that LBJ was famous in Texas in the same manner Daley was famous in Illinois.
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Old 4th December 2007, 06:45 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by Uncle Vanya View Post
Very interesting video, but if you go to the website posted in the video (I cant post links yet) and click on the FAQ you get these juicy tidbits:
The tidbits basically state that it can be done, just that there is not evidence that it has been done.

Interesting that the study shows if it were done it could not be traced.

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Old 4th December 2007, 06:49 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by Uncle Vanya View Post
Now I know people will claim that DieBold could be threatening dissenters within the company with termination (of their job or their life) but that's just making the CT more and more unlikely and unreasonable, and its basically an unfounded claim.
Yeah, like no one has ever blown the whistle even when their job or life was threatened.
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Old 4th December 2007, 08:03 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME View Post
The tidbits basically state that it can be done, just that there is not evidence that it has been done.

Interesting that the study shows if it were done it could not be traced.

Those machines seem to be notoriously problematic, but my posts were more targeted at the OP, who seemed to think that DieBold rigged certain past elections. Which I claimed would be incredibly unlikely.

What you've shown in that video is that some unscrupulous individual could potentially compromise those machines, it also means that said individual could be a member of any political party, not just those nefarious republicans.

Last edited by Uncle Vanya; 4th December 2007 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 4th December 2007, 09:29 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by Uncle Vanya View Post
Those machines seem to be notoriously problematic, but my posts were more targeted at the OP, who seemed to think that DieBold rigged certain past elections. Which I claimed would be incredibly unlikely.

What you've shown in that video is that some unscrupulous individual could potentially compromise those machines, it also means that said individual could be a member of any political party, not just those nefarious republicans.
Did not O'Malley promise a paper trail?
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Old 5th December 2007, 09:20 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME View Post
Did not O'Malley promise a paper trail?
I'm assuming you're referring to Martin O'Malley, Governor of Maryland. Yes he did indeed promise a paper trail, though I'm not sure what has happened with that. Last I heard the goal was to have new voting machines for the 2010 elections.

The problem is this had to involve a scrapping of the extremely expensive system that we already had in place in favor of a new system which could cost something to the tune of 30 million bucks. Sadly, I don't think that Maryland has 30 million bucks just laying around, and in all honesty, there may be better uses for that money.
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Old 5th December 2007, 07:42 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by Uncle Vanya View Post
I'm assuming you're referring to Martin O'Malley, Governor of Maryland. Yes he did indeed promise a paper trail, though I'm not sure what has happened with that. Last I heard the goal was to have new voting machines for the 2010 elections.

The problem is this had to involve a scrapping of the extremely expensive system that we already had in place in favor of a new system which could cost something to the tune of 30 million bucks. Sadly, I don't think that Maryland has 30 million bucks just laying around, and in all honesty, there may be better uses for that money.
Maryland has plenty of money now!

Taxes and fees have been voted in!

The citizens on the other hand. Another Dem fleecing the poor with sales taxes and fees.

Ohh, and of course no paper trail for elections!!!

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