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Tags 2004 elections , Bob Fitrakis , election conspiracies , election fraud , George W. Bush

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Old 9th November 2004, 07:43 AM   #1
materia3
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Bush Got more Votes than there Were Voters

None Dare Call it Voter Suppression and Fraud
by Bob Fitrakis
www.dissidentvoice.org
November 8, 2004
First Published in The Free Press

Quote:
Evidence is mounting that the 2004 presidential election was stolen in Ohio. Emerging revelations of voting irregularities coupled with well-documented Republican efforts at voter suppression prior to the election suggests that in a fair election Kerry would have won Ohio.

Democratic hopeful Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts conceded on November 3, based on preliminary postings by the highly partisan Republican Ohio Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell. These unofficial results showed Bush with 136,483 more votes than Kerry, although 155,428 provisional ballots, 92,672 “spoiled” ballots, additional overseas ballots, and some remaining absentee ballots remained uncounted.

The day after his concession, Kerry drew 3,893 votes closer to Bush when a computerized voting machine “glitch” was discovered in an Ohio precinct. A machine in ward 1B in the predominantly Republican Gahanna, Ohio, recorded 4,258 votes for George W. Bush when only 638 people cast votes at the New Life Church polling site. Buried on page A6 of the Columbus Dispatch, the story also reported that the voting machine recorded 0 votes in a race between Franklin County Commissioners Arlene Shoemaker and Paula Brooks. Franklin County Board of Elections Director Matt Damschroder told the Dispatch that the voting machine glitches were “why the results on election night are unofficial.”

The right-wing New Life Church voting glitch is interesting. Free Press reporter Marley Greiner has been tracking Blackwell’s relationship with far right-wing religious forces like Biblical America and Christian dominionist groups that want to establish theocratic religious rule in America. Blackwell was campaigning around the state with the Reverend Rod Parsley as part of a “Silent No More” tour in support of amending the Ohio Constitution to outlaw gay marriage, on the ballot as Issue One. Many mainstream commentators claim it was the widely popular Issue One amendment campaign that brought out Bush voters in record numbers in rural Ohio. Gay marriage was already outlawed by state statute, and six of the seven Ohio Supreme Court justices are Republicans.
more at above website



There is a mounting congressional call for an investigation by the GAO into election fraud.
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Old 9th November 2004, 07:47 AM   #2
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Old 9th November 2004, 07:56 AM   #3
Jocko
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Re: Bush Got more Votes than there Were Voters

Quote:
Originally posted by materia3
None Dare Call it Voter Suppression and Fraud
by Bob Fitrakis
www.dissidentvoice.org
November 8, 2004
First Published in The Free Press



more at above website



There is a mounting congressional call for an investigation by the GAO into election fraud.
You know, Democrat challenges are like Police Academy movies. None of them have ever paid off, yet they still keep getting produced like clockwork. Gotta wonder what they're thinking here.

Dissidentvoice.org? Whassamatta, NYT won't even carry that slop? Here's a headline for you:

Dems repeat mistakes of '00, wonder why '08 looks so bleak

Ask Al Gore if he thinks this is a good idea.
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Old 9th November 2004, 08:14 AM   #4
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Hey, if Kerry actually believes that, he can always retract his concession like Gore did, and use that 52 million dollars and those ten thousand lawyers to fight for justice.
Unless of course he wasn't really serious about being president, and all that stuff he said during the campaign.

But if even Kerry doesn't believe this crap, why are you wasting our time posting it here?

This is after all a skeptic's forum...surely you had to know that such superstitious woo-woo would be debunked.

Why not try alt.politics.whiners?
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Old 9th November 2004, 08:46 AM   #5
materia3
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For the record Kerry is NOT challening the voting. It is widely believed he was only too happy to concede.

People who do not want to see the U.S. become a theocracy
are raising these issues. I didn't realize there were so many holy rollers on this forum.

The fact is in rural southern Ohio Bush received not only more
votes than there were voters but more votes than there were adult humans. Diebold, the maker of the voting machine, BTW, is
located in Canton, central Ohio and is part and parcel of this
cabal which includes providing a machine a computer or ATM or
whatever without a printer or printed record as you can get in
any ATM machine sitting in any grocery store or bank wall.
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Old 9th November 2004, 08:49 AM   #6
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"ANOTHER STOLEN ELECTION!"

Get a life. Bush won because more people voted for him. Kerry's out and the election's over. See you in '08 for the next election (or maybe '06, when the Repubs. get their 60 seat majority in the Senate).
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Old 9th November 2004, 09:01 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by materia3
For the record Kerry is NOT challening the voting. It is widely believed he was only too happy to concede.

<SNIP>.


I'm sure it is widely believed...and of course 'widely believed', and 'proof positive' are synonymous, right?

So your assertion/conspiracy theory is that Kerry spent all that time, effort and money running for the presidency, and now that Bev Harris has proof that he actually won, he doesn't really want to be President after all?

Oh yeah, that makes perfect sense, in a kind of 'all you atheists, skeptics, and liberals, are really holy rollers and theocracy fanatics' sort of way.

Go back to your Ouija boards and crystal balls, materia, your stint of trying to pass as anything other than a woo-woo true believer in fantasies is pretty well over here.
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Old 9th November 2004, 09:08 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by materia3
For the record Kerry is NOT challening the voting. It is widely believed he was only too happy to concede.

People who do not want to see the U.S. become a theocracy
are raising these issues. I didn't realize there were so many holy rollers on this forum.

The fact is in rural southern Ohio Bush received not only more
votes than there were voters but more votes than there were adult humans. Diebold, the maker of the voting machine, BTW, is
located in Canton, central Ohio and is part and parcel of this
cabal which includes providing a machine a computer or ATM or
whatever without a printer or printed record as you can get in
any ATM machine sitting in any grocery store or bank wall.
Heavy Sigh.

If you want to test how much umph this issue has, go here:

http://www.democrats.org/

and find reference to it.

I haven't look, except a quick glance on the main page, but even that led me to believe it's a bunch of bunk. Were there any substance to it, even just political substance which doesn't require facts, it would be listed on their main page.
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Old 9th November 2004, 09:19 AM   #9
gnome
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Quote:
Originally posted by crimresearch
I'm sure it is widely believed...and of course 'widely believed', and 'proof positive' are synonymous, right?

So your assertion/conspiracy theory is that Kerry spent all that time, effort and money running for the presidency, and now that Bev Harris has proof that he actually won, he doesn't really want to be President after all?
I'm not sure what's so bizarre about this. Having conceded the election, he would look exactly like the crybaby in NTW's obnoxious picture if he jumped on every conspiracy theory. It would take a lot more evidence before it would be proper for him to question the results.
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Old 9th November 2004, 09:28 AM   #10
materia3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rob Lister
Heavy Sigh.

If you want to test how much umph this issue has, go here:

http://www.democrats.org/

and find reference to it.

I haven't look, except a quick glance on the main page, but even that led me to believe it's a bunch of bunk. Were there any substance to it, even just political substance which doesn't require facts, it would be listed on their main page.
You make the error of equating or rather confusing Kerry the person with the DNC. They are not necessarily equivalent where this issue is concerned. Expect nothing less than for the party to pursue its stated platform.
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Old 9th November 2004, 09:32 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by gnome
I'm not sure what's so bizarre about this. Having conceded the election, he would look exactly like the crybaby in NTW's obnoxious picture if he jumped on every conspiracy theory. It would take a lot more evidence before it would be proper for him to question the results.
Uhh...Yeah? That is exactly my point...this 'evidence' is so flimsy that no one can rely on it, not even someone who stands to gain everything.

And as far as not wanting to look bad by retracting a concession, Gore kind of blew that one out of the water a few years ago.

Even those who didn't want Bush to win can't keep a straight face about these conspiracy theories of Materia's that now have *Kerry* conspiring with Bush to throw the election...

Materia is grasping at straws that even drowning Democrats won't touch, and he is trying to peddle them on a skeptic's forum....guess what? Some of us are skeptical.
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Old 9th November 2004, 09:33 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by materia3
You make the error of equating or rather confusing Kerry the person with the DNC. They are not necessarily equivalent where this issue is concerned. Expect nothing less than for the party to pursue its stated platform.
You've made the mistake of getting your news from any site with "dissident" in it's name;
Dismissing the simple rebuttals found here as evangelism;
Confusing Kerry's "Hope is on the way" with this ridiculous boondoggle.

Go on, post again. I make it a hobby of stringing together paranoiacs' theories with semicolons.
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Old 9th November 2004, 10:17 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by materia3


People who do not want to see the U.S. become a theocracy
are raising these issues. I didn't realize there were so many holy rollers on this forum.


Keep up the good work of helping the Republicans. You are either an NTW sock or just a horrible rhetorician.

Let me edit your rant so that it is less embarrassing to people who trend to the left but do not foam at the mouth:

Quote:
People who are concerned about accurate elections and think that every vote cast should be treated as essential and thus counted equally regardless of who wins in the end are raising these issues. I didn't realize this is a sore point.

Is your opposition to such an examination because you do not care about the idea of "one person one vote" or are you desperate to protect the result?

Why are you threatened by examination of this new and unproven technology, the use of which is surrounded by details that while present no evidence whatsoever of wrongdoing, should justify healthy suspicion and a demand that the process be transparent?


No charge. Please consider ending your career as a "useful idiot" for the right. That is payment enough.
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Old 9th November 2004, 10:17 AM   #14
materia3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jocko
You've made the mistake of getting your news from any site with "dissident" in it's name;
Dismissing the simple rebuttals found here as evangelism;
Confusing Kerry's "Hope is on the way" with this ridiculous boondoggle.

Go on, post again. I make it a hobby of stringing together paranoiacs' theories with semicolons.
You're right! A website with dissident in its name is hardly a reputable source. Would you take MSNBC? How about a dozen congressmen?

There are multiple accounts including the following which can be found at:

http://www.buzzflash.com/

Quote:
Just watched Keith Olbermann on MSNBC in which he did a story on election problems. He said that there were 90,000 more votes cast in Ohio than registered voters (he went through a list of counties and said how many voters were registered in each and how many extra thousands of votes were recorded).

He reported how in Florida counties, heavily-leaning dem counties went overwhelmingly for Bush -- the first time these counties have ever voted Repub. He showed charts with numbers, etc., it was very compelling.

He said that all the irregularities in Florida and Ohio have happened in counties using non-paper-trail e-voting from the companies run by Bush's friends.

He interviewed a reporter from the Cincinnati paper who discussed how homeland security barred reporters from witnessing the voting in some of the major minority areas in town, that this was the first time the press was ever kept out of and barred from witnessing the voting. The Sec of State in Ohio says that it was under orders from Bush's Homeland Security chief, who said that these cities in Ohio were under a highly increased threat of terrorism during the election. For this reason, only one entrance was open for the voting in these (largely democratic) areas, and the press was barred from coming in to see the voting, or to have the usual offices in the building they have had in every past year.

Olbermann then had Rep. John Conyers on and there are a dozen or so representatives demanding an investigation from the GAO. So it's Chicago-style voting taken to a national level -- the GOP dead vote, the GOP takes away votes from Dems and turned them into Bush votes, and they just add extra votes (for pres, not on the other issues or candidates) to the totals.

In Florida where Bush scored big, on the same ballots Democratic measures scored big, such as making a Florida minimum wage $1 above the federal level. In other words, all these people voted for Bush AND voted to pass these Democratic measures, which the GOP had tried to defeat. So this indicates that only the presidential election voting was rigged, they didn't rig the rest of the voting form.

Looks like maybe we're going to get some sort of investigation into the fraud that's gone down after all, even if Kerry caved in.

Also, some counties in Ohio where the press has always been allowed to inspect figures from voting -- have been taken away and they're not allowed to view them. They're filing something in court to force the Sec of State to release them for public review.

Also, one heavily-Dem county in Florida discovered a huge stack of absentee ballots that had not been counted and told the Sec of State's office about the ballots and said they would count them -- and the Sec of State told them to hold on, and then came and took the ballots away, so the officials in that county were never able to count them.
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Old 9th November 2004, 10:33 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by materia3
Would yuou take MSNBC? How about a dozen congressmen?
Link, please?
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Old 9th November 2004, 11:08 AM   #16
materia3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Upchurch
Link, please?
I added it in the original post. You can find this account, much more and other accounts at:

http://www.buzzflash.com/

I actually saw Keith's Countdown (MSNBC) last night and can verify that this account is correct. As the day and days ware on there will probably be more.

See: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/
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Old 9th November 2004, 11:09 AM   #17
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I don't think the Ohio election was "stolen," and I don't think the voting machine problems were big enough to change the result, but...it's still troubling, isn't it? Not in a conspiracy sense, but in the sense that something so unreliable could've gotten this far along in the process.

Another reason why everyone should oppose electronic voting machines with no paper trail.

Jeremy
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Old 9th November 2004, 11:16 AM   #18
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This is a conspiracy that's easy to prove or disprove -- recount in a few districts where people claim there's a problem. Problem solved. It's not like we're talking about ghosts or ufos. It might not convice all of the people who think there was fraud, but it'd convince 3/4 of them. Every year, people waste 100x more money on things with a lot smaller chance of being true, make that every week if you count sundays.
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Old 9th November 2004, 11:18 AM   #19
aerocontrols
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He showed charts. With numbers.

Charts, with numbers.


You do realize that many southern Democrats are conservative, voting for conservative Democrats locally, and Republicans nationally?


That Cuyahoga County recorded more votes than it has registered voters is interesting, if true.

This source says there were over a million registered voters in that county, while this count doesn't come close to that number. The claim from MSNBC is that certain precincts voted more than they should have, not that the county did, so let's look at what we can.

Right now, the county records the county as a big Kerry win. (with 67% of that county's vote, it's his biggest win in the state). If we assume Bush stole (created out of thin air) 90,000 votes in that county and reduce his total accordingly, then recalculate, Kerry would then capture 77% of the votes cast in that county, making Cuyahoga a win of astronomical proportions. This is a plausible occurrence, perhaps, but it seems unlikely.

Keep in mind, however, that our assumption requires that the precincts with 'more votes than voters' had 100% turnout, and the only votes are these 90,000. Turnout in Cuyahoga was 65%. (Less than 55% real turnout if those 90k votes are fakes) How many more votes would Bush have had to steal in order to drive up turnout in these precincts to 100% of the registered voters plus 90,000 votes? In the MSNBC scenario, would Cuyahoga become a 90% Kerry / 10% Bush county? Perhaps you also believe this is plausible, but we're skirting the edges of woo-wooism, I think. Party registration goes 3:1 for the Democrats. The MSNBC scenario seems to imply that Bush won only the 70,000 registered Republicans and a piddling number of independents, and Kerry won all the 200,000 Democrats and 95% or so of independents who voted.

I, for one, would like to see how the county voted in 2000.

There is an alternate explanation for where these votes came from (and who they went to), however. This alternate explanation would fit better since it doesn't require Kerry to have 'really won' the county by 90%, and it doesn't require a heavily Democratic county with Democratic elections officials to have conspired with Bush's people to steal the election.

I encourage you and MSNBC to keep digging.

aerocontrols
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Old 9th November 2004, 11:20 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by materia3
I added it in the original post. You can find this account, much more and other accounts at:

http://www.buzzflash.com/

I actually saw Keith's Countdown (MSNBC) last night and can verify that this account is correct. As the day and days ware on there will probably be more.
I hope you'll understand that your endorsement doesn't mean very much. Clearly you only hear and believe things that fit your worldview. I prefer to interpret it things for myself and disregard triple hearsay.

Provide the link to the MSNBC transcript.
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Old 9th November 2004, 11:22 AM   #21
materia3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rob Lister
I hope you'll understand that your endorsement doesn't mean very much. Clearly you only hear and believe things that fit your worldview. I prefer to interpret it things for myself and disregard triple hearsay.

Provide the link to the MSNBC transcript.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/
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Old 9th November 2004, 11:49 AM   #22
materia3
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Here's the exact, precise actual LINK to the segment on Countdown last night which alerted me, at least, to this growing controversy (transcript). I actually found the other material before I found this. Thanks for telling me there was a transcript out there somewhere.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6442857/


Rob, after you've read it, would deeply appreciate your view on this situation, taking into account the other references provided
also.

Thanks...
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Old 9th November 2004, 12:14 PM   #23
Rob Lister
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Quote:
Originally posted by materia3
Here's the exact, precise actual LINK to the segment on Countdown last night which alerted me, at least, to this growing controversy (transcript). I actually found the other material before I found this. Thanks for telling me there was a transcript out there somewhere.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6442857/


Rob, after you've read it, would deeply appreciate your view on this situation, taking into account the other references provided
also.

Thanks...
Well, after viewing it I took a single example, baker county fl, and looked at their election website. I couldn't find reference to the number of registered dems vs reps but what I could find where the unofficial election results for this election and the 2002 general election.

Guess what? For such a 'reportedly' high democrat population, unusually in itself for a county that far north, they certainly do vote for republicans pretty much as a rule. Pretty much the same ratios applied.

Are you suggesting that the 2002 election was also 'fixed'?

http://bakercountyfl.org/elections/general02.htm
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Old 9th November 2004, 12:16 PM   #24
jj
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It seems to me that the assertions made here can easily be tested.

There is, is there not, the number of registered voters available as public information.

There is, is there not, ditto for the election results.

Somebody who's there, do the homework. I could do it for around here, but the exit polls and the vote agree here.
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Old 9th November 2004, 12:24 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rob Lister
Well, after viewing it I took a single example, baker county fl, and looked at their election website. I couldn't find reference to the number of registered dems vs reps but what I could find where the unofficial election results for this election and the 2002 general election.

Guess what? For such a 'reportedly' high democrat population, unusually in itself for a county that far north, they certainly do vote for republicans pretty much as a rule. Pretty much the same ratios applied.

Are you suggesting that the 2002 election was also 'fixed'?

http://bakercountyfl.org/elections/general02.htm
Follow my link above, Rob. "Charts, with numbers" and you'll find a PDF with lots of counties, including Baker.

Baker County

Registration: 8926 Dem / 3126 Rep.

2004: 2180 Kerry / 7738 Bush

2000: 2392 Gore / 5610 Bush

1996: 2273 Clinton / 3864 Dole / 667 Perot

Yes, this overwhelmingly (nearly 3:1) Democratic - registered county votes Republican in national elections, because it's full of conservative Democrats. Yes, Bush did better in 2004 than he did in 2000 when he barely won the state, and better than Dole in 1996 who lost the election but still won Baker County. Dole even beat Clinton + Perot in that county.

Must be fraud
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Old 9th November 2004, 12:29 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by materia3
You make the error of equating or rather confusing Kerry the person with the DNC. They are not necessarily equivalent where this issue is concerned. Expect nothing less than for the party to pursue its stated platform.
Excellent point.

Now try finding reference of it at John Kerry's own site...

I predict crickets...
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Old 9th November 2004, 12:31 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by aerocontrols
Follow my link above, Rob. "Charts, with numbers" and you'll find a PDF with lots of counties, including Baker.

Baker County

Registration: 8926 Dem / 3126 Rep.

2004: 2180 Kerry / 7738 Bush

2000: 2392 Gore / 5610 Bush

1996: 2273 Clinton / 3864 Dole / 667 Perot

Yes, this overwhelmingly (nearly 3:1) Democratic - registered county votes Republican in national elections, because it's full of conservative Democrats. Yes, Bush did better in 2004 than he did in 2000 when he barely won the state, and better than Dole in 1996 who lost the election but still won Baker County. Dole even beat Clinton + Perot in that county.

Must be fraud
I guess some people don't realize that in some counties people have to register as a certain party in order to participate in local elections. When one party traditionally controls an area, the only local elections that matter are the primary elections, and in many places these are closed to all but party registrants. Even where primaries are later opened there is no real hurry to re-register.

I'll wager that there are many W.Va. counties with similar democrat registration numbers that went for Bush.

I just don't imagine caring all that much as only the most uninformed dupe would accept such a thing as evidence...
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Old 9th November 2004, 12:32 PM   #28
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If only the elections were stolen, and a slight majority of Americans actually had a brain...
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Old 9th November 2004, 12:38 PM   #29
Rob Lister
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Quote:
Originally posted by Suddenly
I guess some people don't realize that in some counties people have to register as a certain party in order to participate in local elections. When one party traditionally controls an area, the only local elections that matter are the primary elections, and in many places these are closed to all but party registrants. Even where primaries are later opened there is no real hurry to re-register.

I'll wager that there are many W.Va. counties with similar democrat registration numbers that went for Bush.

I just don't imagine caring all that much as only the most uninformed dupe would accept such a thing as evidence...
While I don't expect anyone to take this as the gospel, I just got off the phone with THE Baker County Supervisor of Elections. I asked her if the numbers of reg. Dems and Reps was on the up and up. She said yes. I asked her about the election results and she said it was no suprise and that it was a small county that always votes republican in national and state elections.

"moral issues" was how she put it.

Go figure.
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Old 9th November 2004, 12:41 PM   #30
aerocontrols
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Quote:
Originally posted by Suddenly
I guess some people don't realize that in some counties people have to register as a certain party in order to participate in local elections. When one party traditionally controls an area, the only local elections that matter are the primary elections, and in many places these are closed to all but party registrants. Even where primaries are later opened there is no real hurry to re-register.

That's the case here in downtown Atlanta. When I voted in the primary, there was almost nothing on my ballot. I should have declared myself a Democrat, but I just couldn't bring myself to do it.

MattJ
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Old 9th November 2004, 12:45 PM   #31
Beerina
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Quote:
Originally posted by materia3
You're right! A website with dissident in its name is hardly a reputable source. Would you take MSNBC? How about a dozen congressmen?

There are multiple accounts including the following which can be found at:

http://www.buzzflash.com/[quoteJust watched Keith Olbermann on MSNBC in which he did a story on election problems. He said that there were 90,000 more votes cast in Ohio than registered voters (he went through a list of counties and said how many voters were registered in each and how many extra thousands of votes were recorded).

He reported how in Florida counties, heavily-leaning dem counties went overwhelmingly for Bush -- the first time these counties have ever voted Repub. He showed charts with numbers, etc., it was very compelling.

He said that all the irregularities in Florida and Ohio have happened in counties using non-paper-trail e-voting from the companies run by Bush's friends.

He interviewed a reporter from the Cincinnati paper who discussed how homeland security barred reporters from witnessing the voting in some of the major minority areas in town, that this was the first time the press was ever kept out of and barred from witnessing the voting. The Sec of State in Ohio says that it was under orders from Bush's Homeland Security chief, who said that these cities in Ohio were under a highly increased threat of terrorism during the election. For this reason, only one entrance was open for the voting in these (largely democratic) areas, and the press was barred from coming in to see the voting, or to have the usual offices in the building they have had in every past year.

Olbermann then had Rep. John Conyers on and there are a dozen or so representatives demanding an investigation from the GAO. So it's Chicago-style voting taken to a national level -- the GOP dead vote, the GOP takes away votes from Dems and turned them into Bush votes, and they just add extra votes (for pres, not on the other issues or candidates) to the totals.

In Florida where Bush scored big, on the same ballots Democratic measures scored big, such as making a Florida minimum wage $1 above the federal level. In other words, all these people voted for Bush AND voted to pass these Democratic measures, which the GOP had tried to defeat. So this indicates that only the presidential election voting was rigged, they didn't rig the rest of the voting form.

Looks like maybe we're going to get some sort of investigation into the fraud that's gone down after all, even if Kerry caved in.

Also, some counties in Ohio where the press has always been allowed to inspect figures from voting -- have been taken away and they're not allowed to view them. They're filing something in court to force the Sec of State to release them for public review.

Also, one heavily-Dem county in Florida discovered a huge stack of absentee ballots that had not been counted and told the Sec of State's office about the ballots and said they would count them -- and the Sec of State told them to hold on, and then came and took the ballots away, so the officials in that county were never able to count them.
[/quote]

With all due respect, swap a few words and it sounds indistinguishable from rabid UFO conspiracy theories. Voting machines "by Bush's friends", etc.

Also, these arguments completely ignore the flip side -- such as preplanned court objections by Democrats about racial intimidation (wherein the judge would extend those districts' voting hours by 1 or 2 or more, purely coincidentally, I'm sure, giving extra votes for Democrats as those are typically heavily Democratic districts.) Vote early, vote often. 1 of 5 registered people aren't even in that district anymore, many dead, yet still "vote", a curiously large number Democratic.

And don't blame me, I voted Libertarian. Both of youse guyses are dorks.
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Old 9th November 2004, 12:54 PM   #32
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Uhhh, the MSNBC piece was basically how there are all these "reynold's foil hat" theories and the nuggets of truth that feed them.

I wouldn't claim that as a victory.
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Old 9th November 2004, 12:58 PM   #33
Cleon
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Quote:
Originally posted by aerocontrols
That's the case here in downtown Atlanta. When I voted in the primary, there was almost nothing on my ballot. I should have declared myself a Democrat, but I just couldn't bring myself to do it.

MattJ
Say what? Dude, Georgia has crossover voting; you can pick which primary (Democrat, Republican) you want to vote in each election by going in and standing in the correct line. I vote in Dunwoody; during a primary there's a sign for "Democrat" and one for "Republican." You don't have to be registered in the party you want to vote in.
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Old 9th November 2004, 01:03 PM   #34
jj
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DOES
ANYONE
HAVE
ANY
NUMBERS?



That is all.
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Old 9th November 2004, 01:16 PM   #35
corplinx
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Quote:
Originally posted by jj

DOES
ANYONE
HAVE
ANY
NUMBERS?
[/size]


That is all.
Before the election, republicans were claiming there were more registrations than there were people and had "numbers" to back it up. Also remember how republicans were up in arms over areas with 99 percent registration growing their registrations by leaps and bounds?

Post election the fringe democrats are claiming there were more voters than registrations.

The problem is in ascertaining what the legit tallies are of A. eligible voters
B. registered voters

While
C. cast votes
is the number that must be reconciled.

The GOP claims there were irregularities between A and B _before_ the election and the democrats claim there are irregularities between B and C _after_ losing.

To make a case for either of these, we need to first verify that the baselines are indeed correct.
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Old 9th November 2004, 01:16 PM   #36
aerocontrols
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cleon
Say what? Dude, Georgia has crossover voting; you can pick which primary (Democrat, Republican) you want to vote in each election by going in and standing in the correct line. I vote in Dunwoody; during a primary there's a sign for "Democrat" and one for "Republican." You don't have to be registered in the party you want to vote in.
In my precinct, there was no line or any signs just a table where everyone sat down and filled out a Republican, Democrat, or Independent form to request a ballot. I understood that choosing either form would slap a party ID on me, despite that I can change it in the next election.

I should have been more specific about which portions of Suddenly's post I was agreeing about. What I meant is that 'it's also the case here that if you want to participate meaningfully in the primary process, you need to vote a Democratic ballot in the primaries'.
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Old 9th November 2004, 01:23 PM   #37
Cleon
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Quote:
Originally posted by aerocontrols
In my precinct, there was no line or any signs just a table where everyone sat down and filled out a Republican, Democrat, or Independent form to request a ballot. I understood that choosing either form would slap a party ID on me, despite that I can change it in the next election.
Yeah, but so what? If you can vote Republican or independent in the next primary, what difference does it make if they "slap a party ID on you?"

Quote:

I should have been more specific about which portions of Suddenly's post I was agreeing about. What I meant is that 'it's also the case here that if you want to participate meaningfully in the primary process, you need to vote a Democratic ballot in the primaries'.
Yeah, but different locations swing different ways. A friend of mine is uber-conservative (backed Cain) and is active in the Republican party up in Forsyth County. Up in Cumming (yes, for those of you not from Georgia, it's a real town and spelled just like that), it's the other way--for all intents and purposes, the Republican primary decides the election.
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Old 9th November 2004, 01:32 PM   #38
aerocontrols
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cleon
Yeah, but so what? If you can vote Republican or independent in the next primary, what difference does it make if they "slap a party ID on you?"
Party registration is public record. I don't particularly care to be targetted for fundraising or GOTV operations or anything else because I marked down that I am a Democrat. Further, registering as a Democrat just discourages the Republican party from running any local candidates here.

Quote:
Originally posted by Cleon
Yeah, but different locations swing different ways. A friend of mine is uber-conservative (backed Cain) and is active in the Republican party up in Forsyth County. Up in Cumming (yes, for those of you not from Georgia, it's a real town and spelled just like that), it's the other way--for all intents and purposes, the Republican primary decides the election.
Yeah, that's right. It was much the same for me when I lived in Kansas. And?

This discussion is about why counties in Florida which have a majority of registered Democrats voted for Bush.
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Old 9th November 2004, 03:10 PM   #39
valis
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Quote:
Originally posted by Suddenly
I guess some people don't realize that in some counties people have to register as a certain party in order to participate in local elections. When one party traditionally controls an area, the only local elections that matter are the primary elections, and in many places these are closed to all but party registrants. Even where primaries are later opened there is no real hurry to re-register.
...
That used to be the case in Florida but I don't belive it is anymore. Assuming the change was statewide independents and third parties can vote in any primary where the primary is deciding the winner of the seat. This election I got to vote in several local races in the primary despite being a registered Libertarian.
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Old 9th November 2004, 03:32 PM   #40
aerocontrols
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Here are the results for Cuyahoga county, Ohio, from 2000.

So:

2000

Gore 203,161 votes (57%)
Bush 138,538 votes (39%)


2004

Kerry 433,262 votes (67%)
Bush 215,624 votes (33%)


Conclusion: Evidence is mounting that Bush stole 93,000 votes - sure he did.

The numbers look to me more as if Kerry stole 93,000 votes. Does Olbermann say in his news story why he thinks the '93,000 more votes than voters' went to Bush?

Please Please Please let's investigate this situation.

pretty please

MattJ
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