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Tags 2016 elections , Bernie Sanders , election conspiracies , hillary clinton

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Old 18th May 2016, 10:00 AM   #1
Travis
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The election is wearing on me

This election is draining me. But it isn't the Trump nonsense as I generally don't know anyone that subjects me to his brain droppings. It is the ongoing petulant slap fight on the Democratic side. It has made facebook such an exhausting ordeal that I've opted to just skip it most days rather start unfriending people in large numbers.

And what really gets me is that it is people on my side that are really annoying me the most. The Bernie zealots have just pushed me to the edge of a breakdown. Their constant appeal to conspiracy theories and immediate proclamations of "SHILL!" whenever someone points this out or in any way criticizes Bernie makes me really wonder just how different they are from the Truthers we all used to love mocking.

Even here in this forum I've had people accuse me of lying about being a Bernie supporter because I don't venerate his every utterance. It is possible to not agree with everything a candidate stands for and still like them. It is also possible to still hold great respect for their opponent. Shocking, I know.

The nonsense at the NV convention was illuminating. How hypocritical is it to get angry when your attempts to bypass the rules doesn't work and then to complain the system is corrupt? I'd say very. I've long had my suspicion that much of the bad part of the Bernie support comes from his followers being new to the way politics works. That they are naive and shocked to find out politics isn't just giving everything to the angry mob. That there are rules, a system, to make sure that it isn't just a populist whim and that, in the long run, this is a good thing.

Someone made an effort to track down some of the agitators that made threats against Roberta Lange and I found the results unsurprising. Young people who just don't get that the braying mob doesn't always get its way when it screams REAL LOUD.

I know lots of great Bernie supporters. And I note they tend to be a bit older and more inured in the way things work. They are people like my veterinarian and some school teachers. They like him but he ain't no Messiah because, seriously, he isn't. He ain't even that different from the "evil one" Hillary.

And lets get on that. Is she unlikable? Polls say so. But why? I've come to the conclusion that people think she's unlikable because others keep saying she is unlikable. It's a self fulfilling prophesy of sorts. Most of my recent social media arguments have come via constant shares from #DropOutHillary which exists because she has gotten the most votes and is therefore on track to be the nominee which angers many in the Bernie crowd who apparently think he should win even though he didn't because "reasons".

Gee, isn't thinking you should get your way even when you didn't win sort of like the system perversion that you rail against? Can they be so unaware?

Why not be gracious losers? There's dignity in that. It's what I planned on being. I threw my support behind someone that the talking heads on TV said had no chance because the Progressive Left was nothing more than a statistically insignificant fringe movement and watched him make a really good race out of it. Bernie doing so well has proven the talking heads wrong. That is a huge win right there! A win that could be capitalized on and made into something more permanent in the future. Use that momentum and get more like minded politicians into congress! Use the system don't just stand outside and hurl insults at it thinking that will let you get your way.

Oh, but I know even making such suggestions makes me a "shill" undoubtedly working for the same "corporate fascists that imploded the WTC" or something.
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Old 18th May 2016, 10:21 AM   #2
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I think your primary problem is being emotionally invested in anything that happens on Facebook. It's 95% sturm und drang, signifying nothing of consequence. The other 5% are wedding announcements and pictures of your friends' babies.
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Old 18th May 2016, 10:24 AM   #3
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Ugh, you Hillary $hill$ take forever to say something. Anyway, it's just you. Everyone else is chillaxed and enjoying this most reasonable of elections. Perhaps if you accepted Bernie Sanders into your heart as your Lord and Savior he would bathe your tormented soul in the radiance of his political perfection as he sweeps in to his inexorable victory with 300% of the delegates despite Hillary Putin's Illuminati scheme-hatchery. So put down your crack pipe and join us, it's blisssssssss!
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Old 18th May 2016, 10:35 AM   #4
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The problem with Bernie is that I think he entered the race to promote his ideas and programs,but now his ego has taken over. I think it's the old,old, story of power corrupts.
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Old 18th May 2016, 10:41 AM   #5
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Yes, it really is sad when 25% of the population screams at another 25% of the population for being corrupt, dishonest, ignorant shills for evil. Can't they all just get along so they can be unified in screaming at the 50% of Americans who really are corrupt, dishonest, ignorant shills for evil?
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Old 18th May 2016, 10:44 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The problem with Bernie is that I think he entered the race to promote his ideas and programs,but now his ego has taken over. I think it's the old,old, story of power corrupts.
I don't know that it has anything to do with ego. He has a responsibility to his supporters to try his best. Also, I think his strategy is a viable one. He aims to be the backup just in case Hillary is brought down by the email scandal. By performing well to the end, he makes it harder for somebody like Joe Biden to parachute in and cut in line.
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Old 18th May 2016, 11:36 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Even here in this forum I've had people accuse me of lying about being a Bernie supporter because I don't venerate his every utterance. It is possible to not agree with everything a candidate stands for and still like them. It is also possible to still hold great respect for their opponent. Shocking, I know..
Typical hyperbole. I assume the reason that people "erroneously" think you are a shill for Hillary is because they read your posts.

Like this one. One would think a Bernie "supporter" like you obviously are, would have leavened your criticism of Bernie's supporters with at least a head nod toward problems with Hillary supporters conduct.

But no...
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Old 18th May 2016, 11:41 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Ugh, you Hillary $hill$ take forever to say something. Anyway, it's just you. Everyone else is chillaxed and enjoying this most reasonable of elections. Perhaps if you accepted Bernie Sanders into your heart as your Lord and Savior he would bathe your tormented soul in the radiance of his political perfection as he sweeps in to his inexorable victory with 300% of the delegates despite Hillary Putin's Illuminati scheme-hatchery. So put down your crack pipe and join us, it's blisssssssss!
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Old 18th May 2016, 11:44 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The problem with Bernie is that I think he entered the race to promote his ideas and programs,but now his ego has taken over. I think it's the old,old, story of power corrupts.
There is something going on there. Cheering crowds went to his head? He's reliving his activist college days? His latent HDS has bubbled to the surface? His pent up annoyance he's not been able to move the Democrats in the Senate or the DNC over to his ideology is coming out?
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Old 18th May 2016, 11:49 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The problem with Bernie is that I think he entered the race to promote his ideas and programs,but now his ego has taken over. I think it's the old,old, story of power corrupts.
what, Bernie has the temerity to challenge Hillary Clinton? How dare he, he must have gone mental or something. Hillary is READY, and she didn't do to all that trouble to rig the election just to have some NOBODY dare interfere with her Ascension to the job Hillary is ready for.

LOLZ, you HDS sufferers crack me right the hell up!

Must be "ego"! Hee hee!
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Old 18th May 2016, 12:04 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
I think your primary problem is being emotionally invested in anything that happens on Facebook.
[derail]

This is why I limit myself to one facebook view a day. Otherwise, I have to troll through the extreme Catholic nonsense from family members and how atheists eat or sell baby parts for profit and fun and how Christians are a persecuted minority in the US.

[/derail]
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Old 18th May 2016, 01:06 PM   #12
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Personally I love this election, it's like the greatest reality show of all time, with an unbelievable prize that no Hollywood show could provide. The whole world tunes in every week to see the next development in this saga. Seriously, how Clinton and Sanders did in Kentucky and Oregon was a top story today on both BBC and Al Jazeera. Trump meeting Megyn Kelly was also a big story. Fights in Nevada! Republicans hate Trump! Fiona for Cruz's VP! Build the Wall! What will happen at the DNC Convention? What will Rubio do now? What will Trump say next? The world is eating up the drama.

That it is such a long, drawn-out process due to all of these primaries is a bit bizarre but it keeps the drama going. You just don't know what will happen next.
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Old 18th May 2016, 01:16 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by TriangleMan View Post
Personally I love this election, it's like the greatest reality show of all time, with an unbelievable prize that no Hollywood show could provide. The whole world tunes in every week to see the next development in this saga. Seriously, how Clinton and Sanders did in Kentucky and Oregon was a top story today on both BBC and Al Jazeera. Trump meeting Megyn Kelly was also a big story. Fights in Nevada! Republicans hate Trump! Fiona for Cruz's VP! Build the Wall! What will happen at the DNC Convention? What will Rubio do now? What will Trump say next? The world is eating up the drama.

That it is such a long, drawn-out process due to all of these primaries is a bit bizarre but it keeps the drama going. You just don't know what will happen next.
It would be fun if it so much was not at stake. In the end, electing the President should be a serious matter, not a freaking reality show.
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Old 18th May 2016, 01:19 PM   #14
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I'm with you there Travis. I'm a Bernie supporter, and I spend more time correcting other Bernie supporters than I do Hillary supporters. It's getting old. They really don't seem to know how things work, but you try to explain why and how, and you're dismissed as 'for the establishment'. Yes, I also notice it's mostly from the people who were very susceptible to woo claims.

So, it's not just you. I'm only hopeful for, in the event she gets the nomination, Hillary tries to heal wounds and court Bernie supporters by adopting some of his ideas. The ones I like of course.
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Old 18th May 2016, 01:29 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
It would be fun if it so much was not at stake. In the end, electing the President should be a serious matter, not a freaking reality show.
I'm not American so there's nothing I can do but sit back and marvel at the chaos. Why America's election process has become such a spectacle I can't really say, perhaps after it is all over some can look back and reflect on how it came to be like it is.
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Old 18th May 2016, 02:02 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by TriangleMan View Post
Why America's election process has become such a spectacle I can't really say, perhaps after it is all over some can look back and reflect on how it came to be like it is.
The arrival of 24-hour news channels left no room for verification, reflection, thoughtful consideration, or measured commentary. People could tune in at any time, day or night, and if the talking heads weren't howling like a damn monkey about the absolute latest thing happening right that very second, they'd move on. Then people started realizing this meant anything that gets them howling like damn monkeys must be the news, and things quickly devolved to flinging poo in lieu of a more substantive process.
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Old 18th May 2016, 02:08 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The problem with Bernie is that I think he entered the race to promote his ideas and programs,but now his ego has taken over. I think it's the old,old, story of power corrupts.
That, or the (relative) success of his campaign has gone to his head. I prefer to think it's that.

Travis, as another Bernie supporter, I feel for you. I hate it when people from "my side" spout conspiracy nonsense or otherwise lose touch with reality.

Bernie has shown that there is a significant base for progressive politics. That should be translated into progressive local, regional, and House candidates who stand and get elected and influence politics. And a successor to Bernie as standard-bearer and national face for progressives, for the next race in four or eight years time.
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Old 18th May 2016, 02:10 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Yes, it really is sad when 25% of the population screams at another 25% of the population for being corrupt, dishonest, ignorant shills for evil. Can't they all just get along so they can be unified in screaming at the 50% of Americans who really are corrupt, dishonest, ignorant shills for evil?
That is a quite candid and unexpected admission from you.
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Old 18th May 2016, 03:06 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
This election is draining me. But it isn't the Trump nonsense as I generally don't know anyone that subjects me to his brain droppings. It is the ongoing petulant slap fight on the Democratic side. It has made facebook such an exhausting ordeal that I've opted to just skip it most days rather start unfriending people in large numbers.

And what really gets me is that it is people on my side that are really annoying me the most. The Bernie zealots have just pushed me to the edge of a breakdown. Their constant appeal to conspiracy theories and immediate proclamations of "SHILL!" whenever someone points this out or in any way criticizes Bernie makes me really wonder just how different they are from the Truthers we all used to love mocking.

Even here in this forum I've had people accuse me of lying about being a Bernie supporter because I don't venerate his every utterance. It is possible to not agree with everything a candidate stands for and still like them. It is also possible to still hold great respect for their opponent. Shocking, I know.

The nonsense at the NV convention was illuminating. How hypocritical is it to get angry when your attempts to bypass the rules doesn't work and then to complain the system is corrupt? I'd say very. I've long had my suspicion that much of the bad part of the Bernie support comes from his followers being new to the way politics works. That they are naive and shocked to find out politics isn't just giving everything to the angry mob. That there are rules, a system, to make sure that it isn't just a populist whim and that, in the long run, this is a good thing.

Someone made an effort to track down some of the agitators that made threats against Roberta Lange and I found the results unsurprising. Young people who just don't get that the braying mob doesn't always get its way when it screams REAL LOUD.

I know lots of great Bernie supporters. And I note they tend to be a bit older and more inured in the way things work. They are people like my veterinarian and some school teachers. They like him but he ain't no Messiah because, seriously, he isn't. He ain't even that different from the "evil one" Hillary.

And lets get on that. Is she unlikable? Polls say so. But why? I've come to the conclusion that people think she's unlikable because others keep saying she is unlikable. It's a self fulfilling prophesy of sorts. Most of my recent social media arguments have come via constant shares from #DropOutHillary which exists because she has gotten the most votes and is therefore on track to be the nominee which angers many in the Bernie crowd who apparently think he should win even though he didn't because "reasons".

Gee, isn't thinking you should get your way even when you didn't win sort of like the system perversion that you rail against? Can they be so unaware?

Why not be gracious losers? There's dignity in that. It's what I planned on being. I threw my support behind someone that the talking heads on TV said had no chance because the Progressive Left was nothing more than a statistically insignificant fringe movement and watched him make a really good race out of it. Bernie doing so well has proven the talking heads wrong. That is a huge win right there! A win that could be capitalized on and made into something more permanent in the future. Use that momentum and get more like minded politicians into congress! Use the system don't just stand outside and hurl insults at it thinking that will let you get your way.

Oh, but I know even making such suggestions makes me a "shill" undoubtedly working for the same "corporate fascists that imploded the WTC" or something.
1. Step back from Facebook. You're in too deep!

2. Take it from a Bernie supporter, we'll end up voting for Hillary. We won't like it, but the idea of Trump picking SCOTUS justices (he just posted a list of 11 judges he likes-all unacceptable by liberal standards), representing the country as president, and being in charge of the military is unacceptable.
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Old 18th May 2016, 03:41 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
Typical hyperbole. I assume the reason that people "erroneously" think you are a shill for Hillary is because they read your posts.

Like this one. One would think a Bernie "supporter" like you obviously are, would have leavened your criticism of Bernie's supporters with at least a head nod toward problems with Hillary supporters conduct.

But no...
What problem with Hillary supporters? Seriously I haven't run into any so far. How is simply reacting to reality make me a shill for someone I wasn't planning to vote for in the primary?
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Old 18th May 2016, 03:42 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post

So, it's not just you. I'm only hopeful for, in the event she gets the nomination, Hillary tries to heal wounds and court Bernie supporters by adopting some of his ideas. The ones I like of course.
Lol

Yes because that's her track record.

You do realize who invented triangulation don't you? Hillary is more of a get even type of person.

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Old 18th May 2016, 03:44 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
What problem with Hillary supporters? Seriously I haven't run into any so far. How is simply reacting to reality make me a shill for someone I wasn't planning to vote for in the primary?
You might want to start to the head of the DNC?
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Old 18th May 2016, 03:54 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post

And lets get on that. Is she unlikable? Polls say so. But why? I've come to the conclusion that people think she's unlikable because others keep saying she is unlikable.
Wow!

Let me bring you back, it may have started with a little episode called Travelgate.

I can't even begin to imagine listing all the scandals the Clinton's have been involved in. From abuse of power, sex, resignations of cabinet members, deaths of cabinet members. The list is endless.

Travis most people realize this is not a good person. To the left, its all about politics, they would elect the devil if it was a liberal, actually maybe she is.
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Old 18th May 2016, 03:55 PM   #24
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I starting to worry that we might see a Tea Party of the left because of this primary. But at least the fanatical Bernie supporters don't have a Koch brothers type backer behind them so maybe not.
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Old 18th May 2016, 04:05 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
The arrival of 24-hour news channels left no room for verification, reflection, thoughtful consideration, or measured commentary. People could tune in at any time, day or night, and if the talking heads weren't howling like a damn monkey about the absolute latest thing happening right that very second, they'd move on. Then people started realizing this meant anything that gets them howling like damn monkeys must be the news, and things quickly devolved to flinging poo in lieu of a more substantive process.
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Old 18th May 2016, 04:08 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by TriangleMan View Post
I'm not American so there's nothing I can do but sit back and marvel at the chaos. Why America's election process has become such a spectacle I can't really say, perhaps after it is all over some can look back and reflect on how it came to be like it is.
Yeah, I can't imagine that a U.S. election would have any significance for someone living in the Middle East.
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Old 18th May 2016, 04:08 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
The arrival of 24-hour news channels left no room for verification, reflection, thoughtful consideration, or measured commentary. People could tune in at any time, day or night, and if the talking heads weren't howling like a damn monkey about the absolute latest thing happening right that very second, they'd move on. Then people started realizing this meant anything that gets them howling like damn monkeys must be the news, and things quickly devolved to flinging poo in lieu of a more substantive process.
The "Breaking News Syndrome."
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Old 18th May 2016, 04:22 PM   #28
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The election cycles have been getting longer and longer, particularly the last three. To give you an idea, JFK announced his candidacy on January 2, 1960, only 10 months before the election. Bernie Sanders officially announced his on May 25, 2015, and Hillary announced even earlier, on April 12, 2015.

If you can track down a copy, check out TH White's classic political science book, The Making of the President, 1960. You will think he is talking about another country.
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Old 18th May 2016, 04:53 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol

Yes because that's her track record.

You do realize who invented triangulation don't you? Hillary is more of a get even type of person.
Yes, I know who invented the political use of it, but it doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.

And yes, we know you hate Hillary, and liberals, etc, etc. When you have something meaningful to contribute to this thread topic, be sure to chime in.
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Old 18th May 2016, 05:13 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
And what really gets me is that it is people on my side that are really annoying me the most. The Bernie zealots have just pushed me to the edge of a breakdown. Their constant appeal to conspiracy theories and immediate proclamations of "SHILL!" whenever someone points this out or in any way criticizes Bernie makes me really wonder just how different they are from the Truthers we all used to love mocking...
Do you think that there may be a straightforward reason why conspiracy-minded folks would flock to the banner of someone who repeats the refrain that the system is rigged?
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Old 18th May 2016, 05:34 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Do you think that there may be a straightforward reason why conspiracy-minded folks would flock to the banner of someone who repeats the refrain that the system is rigged?
well that supposes that that like minded folks would not flock to a clown who says things like she is the victim of a "vast right wing conspiracy" and whose paid mouth pieces say reprehensible things like “Drag a hundred-dollar bill through a trailer park, you never know what you'll find" just to cover up the fact that Slick Willy had a non-consensual sex problem.
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Old 18th May 2016, 05:52 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
You will think he is talking about another country.

He is.
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Old 18th May 2016, 05:53 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
well that supposes that that like minded folks would not flock to a clown who says things like she is the victim of a "vast right wing conspiracy" ...
I mentioned something that Sanders says every time he takes the stage.

You dug up a quote from around two decades ago.
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Old 18th May 2016, 06:16 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I mentioned something that Sanders says every time he takes the stage.

You dug up a quote from around two decades ago.
Are you really claiming that was a one off for Hillary? LOLZ!

“The Right Wing never gives up attacking me,” she remarked on Tuesday at a campaign rally in Louisville, Ky. She joked that her foes are “are really throwing the kitchen sink” at her this campaign.

Last week. Same old speech she has been giving for three decades. You never heard her speak before?
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Old 18th May 2016, 06:32 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
...

You dug up a quote from around two decades ago.
And which had some basis in fact.
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Old 18th May 2016, 06:36 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
“The Right Wing never gives up attacking me,” she remarked on Tuesday at a campaign rally in Louisville, Ky. She joked that her foes are “are really throwing the kitchen sink” at her this campaign.
You think that the right wing did give up?
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Old 18th May 2016, 06:37 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Do you think that there may be a straightforward reason why conspiracy-minded folks would flock to the banner of someone who repeats the refrain that the system is rigged?
Pretty good point.
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Old 18th May 2016, 06:53 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I mentioned something that Sanders says every time he takes the stage.

You dug up a quote from around two decades ago.
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
You think that the right wing did give up?
Hahahah! Fantastic! Two decades ago, two days ago, the vast right wing conspiracy is ever after her. Bet you wish you could take back that bs about who conspiracy minded folks are drawn to, huh?

Going by this thread it seems pretty clear. You also ignored the Carville comment.

By the way, I am having trouble finding where Bernie sanders used the word rigged. Can you do me a solid and give me a link?
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Old 18th May 2016, 06:55 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Do you think that there may be a straightforward reason why conspiracy-minded folks would flock to the banner of someone who repeats the refrain that the system is rigged?
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
And which had some basis in fact.


I love this thread so much.
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Old 18th May 2016, 07:18 PM   #40
d4m10n
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
By the way, I am having trouble finding where Bernie sanders used the word rigged. Can you do me a solid and give me a link?
Did I say he used that particular word? (No.)

Did I claim that he affirms that the system is rigged? (Yes.)

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/pol..._say059421.php
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