Stealing elections

Bubba · 3rd September 2016, 05:51 AM

How likely is it that there are corrupt democrats and republicans who would not hesitate to flip/steal votes/elections with the computer voting machines?

How likely is it that they have already attempted it done it and got away with it ?

>>>>

For reference purposes:

We have seen the observations/assertions made by BlackBoxVoting regarding e-ballot fraud...

Bev harris black box voting ballot fraud

We have seen how easy it is...

princeton hacks voting machine

We have seen Spoonamore's Ohio 04 election fraud assertion and evidence,

We have seen Florida...

florida voting machine fraud

We've seen anonymous claiming that they blocked Karl Rove's later attempt at stealing Ohio election.

did anonymous defeat karl rove

paulhutch · 3rd September 2016, 07:23 AM

Most of the references are crap references, full of claims and no actual evidence which is why none of them are from even slightly reputable news sources.

The only true one is the story of the Princeton Professor who showed how theoretically an older now obsolete voting machine could be hacked. However he has not claimed that it actually has happened and IIRC, the information he provided has made it less likely that it will happen.

Cain · 3rd September 2016, 03:10 PM

Democrats steal elections by recruiting minorities and the poor to vote -- directly contradicting the intentions of the Founding Fathers. Most of those people do not even own property. Republicans try to counterbalance by loyally supporting their brothers, and subverting the intentions of batty old Jews in Miami-Dade.

Brainster · 4th September 2016, 05:50 PM

Conspiracy theories have their own special place in the forum. Bev Harris and Stephen Spoonamore are kooks.

Bubba · 5th September 2016, 12:00 PM

Dodges the question:

Originally Posted by Brainster

Conspiracy theories have their own special place in the forum. Bev Harris and Stephen Spoonamore are kooks.

fuelair · 5th September 2016, 12:18 PM

republickers cannot be trusted. Hope this helps your political excursions!!!!!

Foolmewunz · 5th September 2016, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by Bubba

Dodges the question:

We are not required to address you with what you consider "valid" responses. We also have no obligation to inform yet another void in your education. This is the USA Politics sub-forum. The participants here are involved in a current election (you'll probably discover it in about 2024 based on the lag time for most of your "finds") and apparently don't feel the need to correct your errant ways, yet again.

Do your own research. Come to your own conclusions. A thread with a link to a couple of loons is not going to get much attention other than to advise you that the information you've posted is from a couple of loons and a suggestion that you take your latest, of many, JAQ over to a sub-forum that deals with that sort of thing.

Bubba · 6th September 2016, 06:38 AM

Cranky old wet blanket.

Have it your way....skip the "loony links" if you wish.

The question stands well without links.

Your reply suggests you might answer without loon links.

How likely is it that there are corrupt democrats and republicans who would not hesitate to flip/steal votes/elections with the computer voting machines?
.

Axxman300 · 6th September 2016, 12:55 PM

I wish I would wake up tomorrow to find someone has stolen the 2016 election. Trump and Clinton just vanished to who-knows-where, and we're left with semi-reasonable candidates...

...one can dream...

jaydeehess · 6th September 2016, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by Cain

Democrats steal elections by recruiting minorities and the poor to vote -- directly contradicting the intentions of the Founding Fathers. Most of those people do not even own property. Republicans try to counterbalance by ~~loyally supporting their brothers, and subverting the intentions of batty old Jews in Miami-Dade~~.

.... gerrymandering constituency borders and passing ridiculous identity requirements to vote, also contradicting the intentions of the Founding Fathers.

You misspelled the struck through part.

Abooga · 26th October 2016, 07:26 AM

Well, with paperless voting machines vote-rigging is quite easy. I can´t understand why they are still in use in some US states. If they were used in my country I´d make quite a fuss about it.

Jrrarglblarg · 26th October 2016, 07:38 AM

Any dedicated effort to swing the election with shenanigans would need to overcome the patchwork quilt of state-level unique solutions to common problems. It couldn't be done as one effort, but 50 different efforts, with 50 different strategies each with a unique set of failure modes and discovery risks.

Abooga · 26th October 2016, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg

Any dedicated effort to swing the election with shenanigans would need to overcome the patchwork quilt of state-level unique solutions to common problems. It couldn't be done as one effort, but 50 different efforts, with 50 different strategies each with a unique set of failure modes and discovery risks.

It´s still about 2.000 times easier that rigging elections that count votes manually...

(100.000 polling precincts / 50 states assuming rigging one paper vote polling precinct is similarly difficult to rig to a state-level electronic system. I will assume this because I guess a similar number of people would have to be "bought" in either case)

Jrrarglblarg · 26th October 2016, 09:50 AM

In my state we use OCR systems. The voter fills in the square just like in school, machines scan the sheets, and some number of votes are hand counted to validate the OCR count for the same sample, with some sampling protocol I don't know much about. We had some OCR failures in the past involving machines not reading marks, so correct pencils, better voter instructions and spot checks of the count became part of the system. At this point I think only the voters can screw it up, not reading instructions mostly.

Fun fact: I'm registered to vote under a different name than my ID. I was born (changed to protect the innocent) Donald Jrrarglblarg Drumph, but I've always gone by Jrrarglblarg, so my voter registration is actually under Jrrarglblarg Donald Drumph. I enlisted twice and held security clearances under that name, but I've never changed my name officially so my state ID/driver's license is Donald first.

JayUtah · 26th October 2016, 10:19 AM

The weak point traditionally has been the tabulators. Poll-site vote-rigging, regardless of its alleged ease, is still almost unheard of. It's just too onerous for the effect obtained. The tabulators aggregate results from many precincts, and is therefore a single point of access to a great many votes. And tabulators are still employed whether the ballot is marked paper, OCR paper, paperless, or absentee/mail. They were also historically bereft of even reasonable measures taken toward operational security. Thanks to the efforts of many advocates and researchers, they are much more secure.

CORed · 26th October 2016, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg

Any dedicated effort to swing the election with shenanigans would need to overcome the patchwork quilt of state-level unique solutions to common problems. It couldn't be done as one effort, but 50 different efforts, with 50 different strategies each with a unique set of failure modes and discovery risks.

It's probably worse than that. In many, if not all states, elections are primarily handled at the county level, and the counties may not all use the same hardware or software.

Horatius · 26th October 2016, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by CORed

It's probably worse than that. In many, if not all states, elections are primarily handled at the county level, and the counties may not all use the same hardware or software.

God, every time I think about Canada vs. the US, whether it's politics, voting, health care, or just about anything else, I think of this Mitchell&Webb bit:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Canada is the men in this analogy. Americans, sort yourself out!

EHocking · 26th October 2016, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by CORed

It's probably worse than that. In many, if not all states, elections are primarily handled at the county level, and the counties may not all use the same hardware or software.

Verified Voting graphically displays all the equipment being used nationally, by state, county etc etc.
The background data can be downloaded in Excel, CSV and JSON.

BStrong · 1st November 2016, 12:43 PM

San Francisco has had ballot boxes and ballots "go missing"

http://www.sfgate.com/politics/artic...ns-3302604.php

The concern that vote-by-mail ballots may not be counted led to the creation of

www.sfelections.org/vbmstatus

I do not have any evidence that any election has been "stolen" by voter fraud, but I have no doubt that in some situations voter fraud has been committed on an institutional, rather than individual basis, and that both parties in the U.S. engage in it.

One of my older relatives often described election day incentives in his youth - a choice between a .50 cent cigar or a shot of whiskey for a straight party ticket vote - offered by the local democratic party in the New Orleans parish and this was both before and after WWII, right up into the 1960's, and another oldtimer has told me about the repubs rigging the voting machines in the central valley here in California to not count demo votes - and he knew of this because he and his partner in their machine shop did the work themselves.

dudalb · 1st November 2016, 03:20 PM

Ah, for the good old days of stealing elections....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ04YdyQPAc

Abooga · 3rd November 2016, 01:12 AM

Originally Posted by BStrong

One of my older relatives often described election day incentives in his youth - a choice between a .50 cent cigar or a shot of whiskey for a straight party ticket vote - offered by the local democratic party in the New Orleans parish and this was both before and after WWII, right up into the 1960's, and another oldtimer has told me about the repubs rigging the voting machines in the central valley here in California to not count demo votes - and he knew of this because he and his partner in their machine shop did the work themselves.

Clearly the first method is quite conspicuous, and wouldn´t be acceptable (so not possible) by today´s standards. The second method I was obviously only made possible thanks to the existence of voting machines. I think it´s quite obvious that voting machines are a hazard and it worries me that not enough resistance is raised agaist them. They are slowly worming their way into the electoral processes of many countries, countries where the achievement of democracy was fought with great pains, only to stupidly lose it again thanks to those damn voting machines... Why am I so alone in seeing this?

dudalb · 4th November 2016, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Abooga

Clearly the first method is quite conspicuous, and wouldn´t be acceptable (so not possible) by today´s standards. The second method I was obviously only made possible thanks to the existence of voting machines. I think it´s quite obvious that voting machines are a hazard and it worries me that not enough resistance is raised agaist them. They are slowly worming their way into the electoral processes of many countries, countries where the achievement of democracy was fought with great pains, only to stupidly lose it again thanks to those damn voting machines... Why am I so alone in seeing this?

Because it is a bit paranoid?
There was PLENTY of voter fraud in the days of paper,hand counted ballets.
Of course we need to monitor the use of voting machines carefully,but to suggest they are part of some vast conspiracy to destroy democracy is ,frankly, just more Conspirqcy Theory crap.

Graham2001 · 6th November 2016, 02:51 AM

Well, according to the founder of Wikileaks, Trump will not be allowed to win the election (Yes, that's right Julian Assange wants Trump to win...)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ7lYRnF1F8

Abooga · 7th November 2016, 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Because it is a bit paranoid?
There was PLENTY of voter fraud in the days of paper,hand counted ballets.
Of course we need to monitor the use of voting machines carefully,but to suggest they are part of some vast conspiracy to destroy democracy is ,frankly, just more Conspirqcy Theory crap.

Paranoid? Worrying about the fact that voting fraud is being made easier is not being paranoid, it´s just common sense. And please note that I never suggested any conspiracy, I´m just saying that having a democracy is meaningless unless you trust the safety of the voting method.

Jrrarglblarg · 7th November 2016, 10:12 PM

I have inspected the voting process in the function of a Poll Watcher as one of Trump's Stormtroopers* and will be watching the count happen. I feel confident my mostly irrelevant county in my usually irrelevant state is in good hands and I'll report on my observations after.

*sneaking in undercover and reporting to my ISF masters within the bounds of law and oath

carlitos · 9th November 2016, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by Bubba

How likely is it that there are corrupt democrats and republicans who would not hesitate to flip/steal votes/elections with the computer voting machines?

Good question. Care to answer yourself?

Bubba · 13th November 2016, 07:56 PM

Originally Posted by carlitos

Good question. Care to answer yourself?

What difference does it make?

I think some in both groups would cheat any way they can.

Abooga · 2nd December 2016, 05:34 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...n-pennsylvania Now they are asking for money to recount votes. Why didn´t they count those votes on election day... for free?

I just don´t get it. In my small town in Spain we use paper ballot. Votes are counted in the colleges in front of ebservers of each party and some randomly chosen citizens and this "work" is not something that anyone has ever complained about. It´s transparent, and very hard to tamper with. So WHY ON EARTH do they not do that in the US? We´re supposed to be the "lazy spaniards" yet we count votes by hand and we think nothing of it. In the US they have to use those obscure voting machines, casting a shadow of doubt on the legitimacy of the process... And hardly anyone bats an eye. I just don´t understand.

Ok, some people do complain. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...count-campaign

Belz... · 2nd December 2016, 05:52 AM

Originally Posted by Cain

Democrats steal elections by recruiting minorities and the poor to vote -- directly contradicting the intentions of the Founding Fathers.

Yeah those damned minorities! How DARE they vote for the party that most corresponds to their values and objectives?

Bubba · 12th December 2016, 09:49 PM

There is an undercover video of a woman wearing a full burka walking into a NY city polling place. She tells the poll worker her name is Huma Abedin. She apparently has no ID. Female poll worker says 'since you are not in the book you cannot use the voting machine, but if thats you, whatever you want, you can vote with this paper ballot instead'.

"Huma" tells poll worker OK I will discuss it with my husband Anthony.

title
Undercover Journalist in Full Burka Is Offered Huma Abedin's Ballot

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...t+poling+place

3rd September 2016, 05:51 AM	#1
Bubba Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 5,247	Stealing elections How likely is it that there are corrupt democrats and republicans who would not hesitate to flip/steal votes/elections with the computer voting machines? How likely is it that they have already attempted it done it and got away with it ? >>>> For reference purposes: We have seen the observations/assertions made by BlackBoxVoting regarding e-ballot fraud... Bev harris black box voting ballot fraud We have seen how easy it is... princeton hacks voting machine We have seen Spoonamore's Ohio 04 election fraud assertion and evidence, We have seen Florida... florida voting machine fraud We've seen anonymous claiming that they blocked Karl Rove's later attempt at stealing Ohio election. did anonymous defeat karl rove
Bubba Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 5,247

3rd September 2016, 03:10 PM	#3
Cain Straussian Join Date: May 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 14,275	Democrats steal elections by recruiting minorities and the poor to vote -- directly contradicting the intentions of the Founding Fathers. Most of those people do not even own property. Republicans try to counterbalance by loyally supporting their brothers, and subverting the intentions of batty old Jews in Miami-Dade.
	__________________ April 13th, 2018: Ranb: I can't think of anything useful you contributed to a thread in the last few years.

4th September 2016, 05:50 PM	#4
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 18,311	Conspiracy theories have their own special place in the forum. Bev Harris and Stephen Spoonamore are kooks.
	__________________ My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.

5th September 2016, 12:00 PM	#5
Bubba Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 5,247	Dodges the question: Originally Posted by Brainster Conspiracy theories have their own special place in the forum. Bev Harris and Stephen Spoonamore are kooks.
Bubba Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 5,247

5th September 2016, 12:18 PM	#6
fuelair Banned Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 58,581	republickers cannot be trusted. Hope this helps your political excursions!!!!!
fuelair Banned Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 58,581

3rd September 2016, 07:23 AM	#2
paulhutch Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Blackstone River Valley, MA Posts: 2,298	Most of the references are crap references, full of claims and no actual evidence which is why none of them are from even slightly reputable news sources. The only true one is the story of the Princeton Professor who showed how theoretically an older now obsolete voting machine could be hacked. However he has not claimed that it actually has happened and IIRC, the information he provided has made it less likely that it will happen.

5th September 2016, 07:39 PM	#7
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 41,468	Originally Posted by Bubba Dodges the question: We are not required to address you with what you consider "valid" responses. We also have no obligation to inform yet another void in your education. This is the USA Politics sub-forum. The participants here are involved in a current election (you'll probably discover it in about 2024 based on the lag time for most of your "finds") and apparently don't feel the need to correct your errant ways, yet again. Do your own research. Come to your own conclusions. A thread with a link to a couple of loons is not going to get much attention other than to advise you that the information you've posted is from a couple of loons and a suggestion that you take your latest, of many, JAQ over to a sub-forum that deals with that sort of thing.
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.

6th September 2016, 06:38 AM	#8
Bubba Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 5,247	Cranky old wet blanket. Have it your way....skip the "loony links" if you wish. The question stands well without links. Your reply suggests you might answer without loon links. How likely is it that there are corrupt democrats and republicans who would not hesitate to flip/steal votes/elections with the computer voting machines? .
Bubba Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 5,247

6th September 2016, 12:55 PM	#9
Axxman300 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Central California Coast Posts: 4,899	I wish I would wake up tomorrow to find someone has stolen the 2016 election. Trump and Clinton just vanished to who-knows-where, and we're left with semi-reasonable candidates... ...one can dream...

6th September 2016, 02:06 PM	#10
jaydeehess Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: 40 miles north of the border Posts: 20,843	Originally Posted by Cain Democrats steal elections by recruiting minorities and the poor to vote -- directly contradicting the intentions of the Founding Fathers. Most of those people do not even own property. Republicans try to counterbalance by ~~loyally supporting their brothers, and subverting the intentions of batty old Jews in Miami-Dade~~. .... gerrymandering constituency borders and passing ridiculous identity requirements to vote, also contradicting the intentions of the Founding Fathers. You misspelled the struck through part.

26th October 2016, 07:26 AM	#11
Abooga Muse Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 825	Well, with paperless voting machines vote-rigging is quite easy. I can´t understand why they are still in use in some US states. If they were used in my country I´d make quite a fuss about it.
Abooga Muse Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 825

26th October 2016, 07:38 AM	#12
Jrrarglblarg Guest Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 12,673	Any dedicated effort to swing the election with shenanigans would need to overcome the patchwork quilt of state-level unique solutions to common problems. It couldn't be done as one effort, but 50 different efforts, with 50 different strategies each with a unique set of failure modes and discovery risks.
Jrrarglblarg Guest Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 12,673

26th October 2016, 08:06 AM	#13
Abooga Muse Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 825	Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg Any dedicated effort to swing the election with shenanigans would need to overcome the patchwork quilt of state-level unique solutions to common problems. It couldn't be done as one effort, but 50 different efforts, with 50 different strategies each with a unique set of failure modes and discovery risks. It´s still about 2.000 times easier that rigging elections that count votes manually... (100.000 polling precincts / 50 states assuming rigging one paper vote polling precinct is similarly difficult to rig to a state-level electronic system. I will assume this because I guess a similar number of people would have to be "bought" in either case)
Abooga Muse Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 825	Last edited by Abooga; 26th October 2016 at 08:08 AM. Reason: arithmetics

26th October 2016, 09:50 AM	#14
Jrrarglblarg Guest Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 12,673	In my state we use OCR systems. The voter fills in the square just like in school, machines scan the sheets, and some number of votes are hand counted to validate the OCR count for the same sample, with some sampling protocol I don't know much about. We had some OCR failures in the past involving machines not reading marks, so correct pencils, better voter instructions and spot checks of the count became part of the system. At this point I think only the voters can screw it up, not reading instructions mostly. Fun fact: I'm registered to vote under a different name than my ID. I was born (changed to protect the innocent) Donald Jrrarglblarg Drumph, but I've always gone by Jrrarglblarg, so my voter registration is actually under Jrrarglblarg Donald Drumph. I enlisted twice and held security clearances under that name, but I've never changed my name officially so my state ID/driver's license is Donald first.
Jrrarglblarg Guest Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 12,673

26th October 2016, 10:19 AM	#15
JayUtah Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 19,135	The weak point traditionally has been the tabulators. Poll-site vote-rigging, regardless of its alleged ease, is still almost unheard of. It's just too onerous for the effect obtained. The tabulators aggregate results from many precincts, and is therefore a single point of access to a great many votes. And tabulators are still employed whether the ballot is marked paper, OCR paper, paperless, or absentee/mail. They were also historically bereft of even reasonable measures taken toward operational security. Thanks to the efforts of many advocates and researchers, they are much more secure.

26th October 2016, 10:58 AM	#16
CORed Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Central City, Colorado, USA Posts: 10,084	Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg Any dedicated effort to swing the election with shenanigans would need to overcome the patchwork quilt of state-level unique solutions to common problems. It couldn't be done as one effort, but 50 different efforts, with 50 different strategies each with a unique set of failure modes and discovery risks. It's probably worse than that. In many, if not all states, elections are primarily handled at the county level, and the counties may not all use the same hardware or software.

26th October 2016, 07:51 PM	#18
EHocking Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,543	Originally Posted by CORed It's probably worse than that. In many, if not all states, elections are primarily handled at the county level, and the counties may not all use the same hardware or software. Verified Voting graphically displays all the equipment being used nationally, by state, county etc etc. The background data can be downloaded in Excel, CSV and JSON.
EHocking Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,543	__________________ "A closed mouth gathers no feet" "Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke "It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite You can't make up anything anymore. The world itself is a satire. All you're doing is recording it. Art Buchwald

1st November 2016, 12:43 PM	#19
BStrong Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: San Francisco Posts: 13,080	San Francisco has had ballot boxes and ballots "go missing" http://www.sfgate.com/politics/artic...ns-3302604.php The concern that vote-by-mail ballots may not be counted led to the creation of www.sfelections.org/vbmstatus I do not have any evidence that any election has been "stolen" by voter fraud, but I have no doubt that in some situations voter fraud has been committed on an institutional, rather than individual basis, and that both parties in the U.S. engage in it. One of my older relatives often described election day incentives in his youth - a choice between a .50 cent cigar or a shot of whiskey for a straight party ticket vote - offered by the local democratic party in the New Orleans parish and this was both before and after WWII, right up into the 1960's, and another oldtimer has told me about the repubs rigging the voting machines in the central valley here in California to not count demo votes - and he knew of this because he and his partner in their machine shop did the work themselves.
	__________________ Music is what feelings sound like "Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus

1st November 2016, 03:20 PM	#20
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,334	Ah, for the good old days of stealing elections.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ04YdyQPAc
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

3rd November 2016, 01:12 AM	#21
Abooga Muse Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 825	Originally Posted by BStrong One of my older relatives often described election day incentives in his youth - a choice between a .50 cent cigar or a shot of whiskey for a straight party ticket vote - offered by the local democratic party in the New Orleans parish and this was both before and after WWII, right up into the 1960's, and another oldtimer has told me about the repubs rigging the voting machines in the central valley here in California to not count demo votes - and he knew of this because he and his partner in their machine shop did the work themselves. Clearly the first method is quite conspicuous, and wouldn´t be acceptable (so not possible) by today´s standards. The second method I was obviously only made possible thanks to the existence of voting machines. I think it´s quite obvious that voting machines are a hazard and it worries me that not enough resistance is raised agaist them. They are slowly worming their way into the electoral processes of many countries, countries where the achievement of democracy was fought with great pains, only to stupidly lose it again thanks to those damn voting machines... Why am I so alone in seeing this?
Abooga Muse Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 825

4th November 2016, 11:14 AM	#22
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,334	Originally Posted by Abooga Clearly the first method is quite conspicuous, and wouldn´t be acceptable (so not possible) by today´s standards. The second method I was obviously only made possible thanks to the existence of voting machines. I think it´s quite obvious that voting machines are a hazard and it worries me that not enough resistance is raised agaist them. They are slowly worming their way into the electoral processes of many countries, countries where the achievement of democracy was fought with great pains, only to stupidly lose it again thanks to those damn voting machines... Why am I so alone in seeing this? Because it is a bit paranoid? There was PLENTY of voter fraud in the days of paper,hand counted ballets. Of course we need to monitor the use of voting machines carefully,but to suggest they are part of some vast conspiracy to destroy democracy is ,frankly, just more Conspirqcy Theory crap.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

6th November 2016, 02:51 AM	#23
Graham2001 Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,329	Well, according to the founder of Wikileaks, Trump will not be allowed to win the election (Yes, that's right Julian Assange wants Trump to win...) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ7lYRnF1F8
	__________________ "I need hard facts! Bring in the dowsers!" 'America Unearthed' Season 1, Episode 13: Hunt for the Holy Grail Everybody gets it wrong sometimes...

7th November 2016, 12:49 AM	#24
Abooga Muse Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 825	Originally Posted by dudalb Because it is a bit paranoid? There was PLENTY of voter fraud in the days of paper,hand counted ballets. Of course we need to monitor the use of voting machines carefully,but to suggest they are part of some vast conspiracy to destroy democracy is ,frankly, just more Conspirqcy Theory crap. Paranoid? Worrying about the fact that voting fraud is being made easier is not being paranoid, it´s just common sense. And please note that I never suggested any conspiracy, I´m just saying that having a democracy is meaningless unless you trust the safety of the voting method.
Abooga Muse Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 825

7th November 2016, 10:12 PM	#25
Jrrarglblarg Guest Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 12,673	I have inspected the voting process in the function of a Poll Watcher as one of Trump's Stormtroopers* and will be watching the count happen. I feel confident my mostly irrelevant county in my usually irrelevant state is in good hands and I'll report on my observations after. *sneaking in undercover and reporting to my ISF masters within the bounds of law and oath
Jrrarglblarg Guest Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 12,673	Last edited by Jrrarglblarg; 7th November 2016 at 10:13 PM.

9th November 2016, 09:31 PM	#26
carlitos "más divertido" Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: USA! USA! Posts: 22,786	Originally Posted by Bubba How likely is it that there are corrupt democrats and republicans who would not hesitate to flip/steal votes/elections with the computer voting machines? Good question. Care to answer yourself?

13th November 2016, 07:56 PM	#27
Bubba Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 5,247	Originally Posted by carlitos Good question. Care to answer yourself? What difference does it make? I think some in both groups would cheat any way they can.
Bubba Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 5,247

2nd December 2016, 05:34 AM	#28
Abooga Muse Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 825	https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...n-pennsylvania Now they are asking for money to recount votes. Why didn´t they count those votes on election day... for free? I just don´t get it. In my small town in Spain we use paper ballot. Votes are counted in the colleges in front of ebservers of each party and some randomly chosen citizens and this "work" is not something that anyone has ever complained about. It´s transparent, and very hard to tamper with. So WHY ON EARTH do they not do that in the US? We´re supposed to be the "lazy spaniards" yet we count votes by hand and we think nothing of it. In the US they have to use those obscure voting machines, casting a shadow of doubt on the legitimacy of the process... And hardly anyone bats an eye. I just don´t understand. Ok, some people do complain. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...count-campaign
Abooga Muse Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 825	Last edited by Abooga; 2nd December 2016 at 05:41 AM.

2nd December 2016, 05:52 AM	#29
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 91,408	Originally Posted by Cain Democrats steal elections by recruiting minorities and the poor to vote -- directly contradicting the intentions of the Founding Fathers. Yeah those damned minorities! How DARE they vote for the party that most corresponds to their values and objectives?
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

12th December 2016, 09:49 PM	#30
Bubba Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 5,247	There is an undercover video of a woman wearing a full burka walking into a NY city polling place. She tells the poll worker her name is Huma Abedin. She apparently has no ID. Female poll worker says 'since you are not in the book you cannot use the voting machine, but if thats you, whatever you want, you can vote with this paper ballot instead'. "Huma" tells poll worker OK I will discuss it with my husband Anthony. title Undercover Journalist in Full Burka Is Offered Huma Abedin's Ballot https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...t+poling+place
Bubba Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 5,247