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Tags 2016 elections , election conspiracies , election issues , hacking incidents , US-Russia relations , vladimir putin

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Old 15th December 2016, 06:16 AM   #1
Mycroft
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Putin Personally Involved in Hack

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...n-hack-n696146


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U.S. intelligence officials now believe with "a high level of confidence" that Russian President Vladimir Putin became personally involved in the covert Russian campaign to interfere in the U.S. presidential election, senior U.S. intelligence officials told NBC News.

Two senior officials with direct access to the information say new intelligence shows that Putin personally directed how hacked material from Democrats was leaked and otherwise used. The intelligence came from diplomatic sources and spies working for U.S. allies, the officials said.

Putin's objectives were multifaceted, a high-level intelligence source told NBC News. What began as a "vendetta" against Hillary Clinton morphed into an effort to show corruption in American politics and to "split off key American allies by creating the image that [other countries] couldn't depend on the U.S. to be a credible global leader anymore," the official said.
Because Putin really dislikes Clinton and he also figures anything that's bad for NATO is good for him.
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Old 15th December 2016, 06:24 AM   #2
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"Author" Ken Dilanian is another CIA spook. They are really pressing this junk.
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Old 15th December 2016, 06:28 AM   #3
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Old but trusty hardware.

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Old 15th December 2016, 06:30 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
"Author" Ken Dilanian is another CIA spook. They are really pressing this junk.
Seems off topic, but you have to go with something, right?

Nice pic. Where do you get something like that on short notice?

Last edited by Mycroft; 15th December 2016 at 06:32 AM.
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Old 15th December 2016, 06:34 AM   #5
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Given what we've known for months...no shockers here.
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Old 15th December 2016, 06:37 AM   #6
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And for those who like the soothing sound of NPR's Morning Edition:

http://www.npr.org/2016/12/15/505658...c-news-reports
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Old 15th December 2016, 06:41 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Given what we've known for months...no shockers here.
No shockers, but a progression. As the story unfolds we started with Russians, to Russians directed by their government to the Kremlin and now to Putin himself.
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Old 15th December 2016, 06:41 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Given what we've known for months...no shockers here.
Indeed. I started a thread on it in October.
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Old 15th December 2016, 06:43 AM   #9
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So not the Gucci taxi driver after all
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Old 15th December 2016, 06:47 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Seems off topic, but you have to go with something, right?

Nice pic. Where do you get something like that on short notice?
Excepting present company of course, I imagine that a dedicated Russia apologist might have images like that readily on hand.
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Old 15th December 2016, 06:58 AM   #11
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I would expect that. Otherwise it would be a pretty bad rogue intelligence operation and I figured Putin is competent enough to avoid that.
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Old 15th December 2016, 07:07 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Old but trusty hardware.

http://i.imgur.com/4KhsHpt.jpg
Do you have another button on that keyboard that says "never Russia"?
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Old 15th December 2016, 07:09 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Excepting present company of course, I imagine that a dedicated Russian apologist might have images like that readily on hand.

Found another good one for my collection earlier today. Here, maybe it can be of use for some of you folks.

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Old 15th December 2016, 08:15 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
No shockers, but a progression. As the story unfolds we started with Russians, to Russians directed by their government to the Kremlin and now to Putin himself.
We've known for years that Putin is personally involved in every significant endeavor of the Russian people. Deepwater exploration, tiger conservation, topless horseback riding... He does it all.
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Old 15th December 2016, 10:10 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
We've known for years that Putin is personally involved in every significant endeavor of the Russian people. Deepwater exploration, tiger conservation, topless horseback riding... He does it all.
I love the denial.
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Old 15th December 2016, 10:13 AM   #16
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Has anybody considered that "if" Putin was responsible for meddling in US elections he is justified in doing so?
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Old 15th December 2016, 10:15 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by ServiceSoon View Post
Has anybody considered that "if" Putin was responsible for meddling in US elections he is justified in doing so?
Justified how?
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Old 15th December 2016, 10:27 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
I love the denial.
No denial. I assumed all along that Putin would be personally involved in such operations.

I just also happen to really enjoy the Glorious Putin Does Everything meme.
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Old 15th December 2016, 10:35 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by ServiceSoon View Post
Has anybody considered that "if" Putin was responsible for meddling in US elections he is justified in doing so?
Of course. But it probably depends on what you mean, exactly.

I think espionage and propaganda are legitimate tools of statecraft, and that nations are entitled to use them to the best of their ability, whenever they believe it suits their purpose. In that sense, yes, Putin is absolutely justified.

On the other hand, it's debatable whether a specific instance of using these tools makes strategic sense, whether it offers reasonable tradeoffs, and whether it contradicts other agreements or expectations. In that sense, Putin's justification is debateable.
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Old 15th December 2016, 10:54 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Found another good one for my collection earlier today. Here, maybe it can be of use for some of you folks.

That's awesome! Like it was produced by an advertisement agency. I bet you have tons of them to choose from, amiright?
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Old 15th December 2016, 10:57 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by ServiceSoon View Post
Has anybody considered that "if" Putin was responsible for meddling in US elections he is justified in doing so?
I'm looking forward to seeing your reasoning on this.
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Old 15th December 2016, 11:15 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Justified how?
A couple different ways.

Are you equally outraged that the US has and will continue to meddle in other countries internal affairs; including elections? Modern examples of American colonialism are easy to find. Based on this precedent set by the USA I wouldn't expect a foreign country to reciprocate in any other way.

Putin has an obligation to serve his constituents in their best interest. If Putin believes that a Trump presidency would provide for a better outcome for this constituents then he has a vested interest in Trump being elected, and should respond appropriately.
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Old 15th December 2016, 11:18 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
I love the denial.
That is apparent.
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Old 15th December 2016, 11:38 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Of course. But it probably depends on what you mean, exactly.

I think espionage and propaganda are legitimate tools of statecraft, and that nations are entitled to use them to the best of their ability, whenever they believe it suits their purpose. In that sense, yes, Putin is absolutely justified.

On the other hand, it's debatable whether a specific instance of using these tools makes strategic sense, whether it offers reasonable tradeoffs, and whether it contradicts other agreements or expectations. In that sense, Putin's justification is debateable.
Some of the alleged tactics attributed to Putin were propaganda (Fake news for example) while other tactics were less sinister.
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Old 15th December 2016, 11:38 AM   #25
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I just want to know who I should thank for post-election record high stock market, Trump or Putin?

Last edited by shuize; 15th December 2016 at 11:45 AM.
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Old 15th December 2016, 11:47 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by shuize View Post
I just want to know who I should thank for post-election record high stock market, Trump or Putin?
As long as you remember your choice when the market crashes and you have to pay for superfund cleanup of contaminated sites caused by deregulation, either one.
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Old 15th December 2016, 12:06 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
As long as you remember your choice when the market crashes and you have to pay for superfund cleanup of contaminated sites caused by deregulation, either one.

Yes, I've already taken some nice profits so far. That's why I was asking. But thank you for your concern.
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Old 15th December 2016, 12:10 PM   #28
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And the snowball picks up speed:

Behind the deep ties between Exxon's Rex Tillerson and Russia
Quote:
The 64-year-old Tillerson, a lifetime Exxon employee, came up through the ranks by managing the company's Russia account.

In fact, his close relationship with Russia is one of the major reasons Tillerson was selected to succeed Lee Raymond as CEO of Exxon (XOM) in 2006, according to Steve Coll's book "Private Empire: ExxonMobil and American Power."

Once he became CEO, Exxon bet billions on Russia's vast but notoriously-elusive oil resources through a bold partnership with Russian oil giant Rosneft. Putin himself attended the 2011 signing ceremony for the deal with Rosneft, which is majority owned by Moscow.
VOX: Rex Tillerson’s potentially huge conflict of interest over Russia and oil, explained
Quote:
On Tuesday, Donald Trump tapped ExxonMobil CEO Rex Tillerson to be his secretary of state. And one eyebrow-raising aspect of this pick is that Exxon has billions of dollars at stake in one of the biggest foreign policy decisions Trump will consider over the next few years — whether to maintain sanctions on Russia.

Exxon, the world’s largest oil company, has long had its eye on Russia’s vast oil and gas deposits. Between 2011 and 2013, Exxon signed a series of deals with the Russian state-owned oil giant Rosneft to explore the Black Sea, develop shale resources in western Siberia, and — most importantly — drill for oil in the Arctic, one of the biggest untapped fossil fuel resources left in the world.

For Exxon, which famously missed out on the massive US fracking boom, these deals were crucial for the company’s future. “Arctic oil in particular would’ve been a game changer for Exxon,” says Fadel Gheit, an oil analyst at Oppenheimer & Co. It was supposed to be a decades-long investment worth many billions.

But Exxon’s activities ground to a halt in 2014, after the Obama administration slapped sanctions on Russia’s oil industry over Russian incursions into Ukraine. Despite having just made a landmark oil discovery in the Kara Sea, Exxon was forced to stop work, and Arctic exploration faded....

But everything hit a snag in 2014 after Russian forces moved into Ukraine and annexed Crimea. In response, the Obama administration put in place US sanctions on Russia’s oil and gas industry that forbid technology transfers and told Exxon it was to halt all offshore drilling work with Rosneft by the end of September.

The timing was brutal for Exxon: The company was in the process of successfully drilling its first well in Block 1 of the Kara Sea — a discovery worth an estimated 750 million barrels of oil. Igor Sechin, the CEO of Rosneft and a close Putin ally, had christened the field “Pobeda,” or Victory....
Putin recently took over his country's oil companies in some sort of kleptocracy/corporatocracy.

This guy was thrown under the bus, maybe they wanted to get out of paying the bribe:
Russia's economy minister arrested for allegedly taking $2m bribe to approve government oil takeover
Quote:
Russia’s economy minister has been charged with extorting a $2m (£1.6m) bribe to approve a state oil takeover, making him the highest-ranking official to face prosecution since the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991.

Alexei Ulyukayev’s arrest has been championed by pro-Kremlin politicians and state television as a victory in the fight against corruption, but the case threatens to expose vulnerabilities in Vladimir Putin's inner circle.

Mr Ulyukayev's ministry had been overseeing a sale of state assets when investigators said he took a bribe on 14 November for approving a $5bn (£4bn) bid by Rosneft, Russia's biggest oil company, to purchase a majority stake in oil producer Bashneft.
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Old 15th December 2016, 12:14 PM   #29
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I love how people have no issues *********** over the populace as long as they line their own pockets. No *********** wonder they voted for Trump. Another man that will **** on anyone and anything as long as it puts money in his pockets. He's made it clear that he'll whore out the U.S. as long as Trump industries makes money.

Classy.
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Old 15th December 2016, 12:20 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I love how people have no issues *********** over the populace as long as they line their own pockets. No *********** wonder they voted for Trump. Another man that will **** on anyone and anything as long as it puts money in his pockets. He's made it clear that he'll whore out the U.S. as long as Trump industries makes money.

Classy.
Anger?
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Old 15th December 2016, 12:22 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Anger?
More accurately phrased as misplaced anger.
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Old 15th December 2016, 12:26 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by shuize View Post
I just want to know who I should thank for post-election record high stock market, Trump or Putin?
Obama's still in office, yes?
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Old 15th December 2016, 01:03 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Anger?

I believe that's the second stage of grief.
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Old 15th December 2016, 01:07 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Obama's still in office, yes?

Obama is responsible for Putin hacking the election to get Trump elected and drive up the stock market?

In that case, thanks Obama!
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Old 15th December 2016, 01:15 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I just also happen to really enjoy the Glorious Putin Does Everything meme.

A classic:

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Old 15th December 2016, 01:32 PM   #36
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So... do the 80's still want their foreign policy back?

Asking for a friend.
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Old 15th December 2016, 01:54 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
So... do the 80's still want their foreign policy back?

Asking for a friend.
Yeah, in the 80s we were super-concerned about Russian hacking. It all makes perfect sense now when Romney complained that we don't have as many ships and planes, not to mention cavalry and bayonets, as the good ol' days.
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Old 15th December 2016, 01:57 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Yeah, in the 80s we were super-concerned about Russian hacking. It all makes perfect sense now when Romney complained that we don't have as many ships and planes, not to mention cavalry and bayonets, as the good ol' days.
Yeah, that wasn't Obama's objection to Romney's position. Nice try, though. B for effort.
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Old 15th December 2016, 01:58 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
So... do the 80's still want their foreign policy back?
They might, but if they do, they should take their Russia back, too. I'm guessing Russia might have done a thing or two since the 2012 US election that might warrant re-assessing Russia's level of threat.

What does your friend think?
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Old 15th December 2016, 02:03 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Anger?
Truth.

Originally Posted by shuize View Post
I believe that's the second stage of grief.
You know that off-topic psychoanalysis is getting old, right? How about you contribute to the discussion, instead?
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