2020 United States presidential election - Conspiracy theories, alleged fraud, etc

Venom · 5th November 2020, 04:05 PM

Let's get all the ******** out of the way.

Which states have special election laws that the CTists have interpreted as "suspicious" ?

What about the 138,000+ votes in Michigan that were "100 percent" for Biden?

I assume this was just a snapshot in time and the keyboard warriors were doing their armchair arithmetic from their computers. Is there any word from the actual election stations about what caused that?

Norman Alexander · 5th November 2020, 04:37 PM

Any evidence that actually happened at all?

Venom · 5th November 2020, 05:50 PM

Twitter and Facebook from what I've seen.

dudalb · 5th November 2020, 06:16 PM

I am expecting great things from that Qanon wackjob just elected from Tennesee to the US COngress...

smartcooky · 5th November 2020, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

I am expecting great things from that Qanon wackjob just elected from Tennesee to the US COngress...

Ah, Tennessee... the natural home of consipiritards

Norman Alexander · 5th November 2020, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by Venom

Twitter and Facebook from what I've seen.

Same places where aliens were confirmed by Bob Woodward after he was beamed aboard their spaceship by Hillary Clinton from Comet Ping Pong pizza parlour. So obviously they are journals of record.

Until some reputable source produces any evidence, not even worth considering beyond having a laff.

EHocking · 6th November 2020, 01:06 AM

Originally Posted by smartcooky

Ah, ~~Tennessee~~ the White House... the ~~natural~~ new home of consipiritards

FTFY

eerok · 6th November 2020, 08:32 AM

The conspiracy and fraud claims related to this election are pure tantrum. I expect them to continue.

JayUtah · 6th November 2020, 09:52 AM

The Republican party's plan seems clear. Where possible, prevent the preprocessing of absentee votes, which were projected to favor Democrats. That means in-person voting, which was predicted to favor Republican candidates, makes it look like a Republican win on election night. Then file lawsuits to prevent counting absentee votes, on the grounds that it's improper to do so or that it's being done improperly. Argue that the swing to the left means the "abnormally" cast votes are probably fraudulently cast, since they don't statistically resemble the "normal" votes cast on Election Day. Then rely on the judiciary to invalidate votes that are unfavorable to their candidates.

I get how they might have hoped to fool the general public with this, to cast doubt on the validity of a Biden victory. But how they thought this could get past a court is beyond me. What I've seen of the lawsuits are laughably flimsy. And we've seen at least one of them summarily dismissed. If the plan is to foment conspiracy theories, why take the extra step of adding a filing fee to it? I doubt many of these lawsuits will make it very far.

dudalb · 6th November 2020, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by smartcooky

Ah, Tennessee... the natural home of consipiritards

From the wonderful state that gave us the Monkey trial....
The Qanon kook makes Sarah Palin look like a greaking genius.

The Great Zaganza · 6th November 2020, 10:13 AM

As posted in another thread by Galaxie :

https://eu.jsonline.com/story/news/p...ts/6182506002/

if true, this is a clear case of Election Fraud, incited by the Trump Campaign.

SuburbanTurkey · 6th November 2020, 10:16 AM

"SharpieGate" seems to be going around. It's a claim that AZ vote was rigged by giving Trump voters sharpies (permanent markers) to fill their ballots out, which would be rejected as invalid by the voting machine. The idea being that in person voting favored Trump, so poll workers sabotaged the process by giving out improper markers at the polls to decrease turnout.

This was pretty much debunked right away, but it's still going around conservative social media.

Sharpies are actually fine to vote with and don't cause any problems. They actually are preferred as they are fast drying and dont smear nearly as much.

The Great Zaganza · 6th November 2020, 10:18 AM

as long as the MAGA crowd doesn't learn about the Space Brain Laser in Hillary's garage our plan should work.

Carrot Flower King · 6th November 2020, 10:20 AM

Trump himself has used absentee voting for ages, hasn't he?

So, is he actually admitting that he has engaged in electoral fraud? And many members of his family...Are they all fraudsters?

Dave Rogers · 6th November 2020, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

As posted in another thread by Galaxie :

https://eu.jsonline.com/story/news/p...ts/6182506002/

if true, this is a clear case of Election Fraud, incited by the Trump Campaign.

I'm not even sure it rises to the level of competence required for commission of an actual offence. It's entirely based on the presumption that there are literally thousands of potential Trump voters who registered for postal votes in good time for the election but were too lazy or too stupid to return them, and now can be motivated to get off their arses and send them in late to save the day at the eleventh hour (well, you know what I mean). If these people were too ******* idle to send their ballots in on time, why are they going to get off their arses and send them in now?

Dave

The Great Zaganza · 6th November 2020, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers

I'm not even sure it rises to the level of competence required for commission of an actual offence. It's entirely based on the presumption that there are literally thousands of potential Trump voters who registered for postal votes in good time for the election but were too lazy or too stupid to return them, and now can be motivated to get off their arses and send them in late to save the day at the eleventh hour (well, you know what I mean). If these people were too ******* idle to send their ballots in on time, why are they going to get off their arses and send them in now?

Dave

"your Honor, yes, my Client conspired to have someone killed, but come on! He clearly never had a chance to succeed because the plan was so dumb! You have to dismiss all charges"!

Dave Rogers · 6th November 2020, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

"your Honor, yes, my Client conspired to have someone killed, but come on! He clearly never had a chance to succeed because the plan was so dumb! You have to dismiss all charges"!

Well, if his planned method was to point a stick at someone and shout "bang!"...

Dave

eerok · 6th November 2020, 10:45 AM

This question might be better asked here rather than the election thread: has there ever been a notable case of election fraud in the history of the US? If so, any in the past fifty years?

Armitage72 · 6th November 2020, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King

Trump himself has used absentee voting for ages, hasn't he?

So, is he actually admitting that he has engaged in electoral fraud? And many members of his family...Are they all fraudsters?

Absentee voting is perfectly fine. It's voting by mail that's rife with fraud and needs to be disqualified.

What's the difference? Well obviously it ... What's that over there?!? {Smokebomb} (Sneak out the back door)

JayUtah · 6th November 2020, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by eerok

This question might be better asked here rather than the election thread: has there ever been a notable case of election fraud in the history of the US? If so, any in the past fifty years?

Election fraud, yes. Voter fraud -- a subset of election fraud -- yes, but almost unheard of. Election fraud includes such things as deceptive voter suppression tactics, improper mass handling of ballots, improper mass registrations, and a whole lot of stuff that can be committed before the election occurs. Some have had the potential to affect results. Most do not.

Voter fraud in the past fifty years has almost never occurred. That's stuff like casting someone else's absentee ballot, trying to vote more than once, voting when you're not registered or eligible, voting in a district other than where you live. The major university study that passed quickly under my eyes in the past few days (murky, so I don't recall citations or accurate details) identified on the order of 1,500 cases of voter fraud or attempted voter fraud in 2 billion votes cast. For any given vote in the 2020 Presidential election, that's a prior probably of p < 7.5 × 10^-7 that the vote was cast fraudulently.

In my home state of Utah we've voted almost exclusively by mail for the past 10 years. We have a very robust, effective, and efficient protocol for handling ballots accountably, including bipartisan observation and control.

However, this is the first year our primary elections were done by mail. The Republican primary is a closed election, so the clerks had to introduce provisions to send ballots to, and make eligible, only registered Republican voters. The Democrats previously had a primary caucus, which they abandoned this year because of the pandemic in favor of an open primary (any eligible voter can vote). And for the first time, 17-year-olds could register to vote if they would turn 18 on or before Election Day. But due to a programming error, primary election ballots were sent prematurely to those 17-year-olds. But because they're barcoded, it was a trivial matter to instruct the tally computer to reject those if they were somehow submitted. There is a bipartisan audit trail for everything like that.

The other thing that has happened in my state is that parents have filled out mail-in ballots for their sons and daughters serving out of town as Mormon missionaries. State law allows them to vote as absentees in that case, and the ballots were completed at the instructions of the actual voters. The parents just acted as proxies. But this is still very illegal, and they got caught. The signature-matching test failed. Ballots cannot be forwarded, but it's the voter's responsibility to make sure it's mailed to the address where they are physically located.

In short, the claims that voter fraud is a serious problem, or has been at any time in the recent past, have no basis in historical fact.

eerok · 6th November 2020, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by JayUtah

In short, the claims that voter fraud is a serious problem, or has been at any time in the recent past, have no basis in historical fact.

Thanks. My impression is that, apart from GOP efforts to (legally if questionably) suppress and shape voting, there has been no significant problem with election fraud or voter fraud in the US. I just wanted a more informed opinion

dudalb · 6th November 2020, 04:20 PM

She has not even taken the Oath yet, and already Marjorie Taylor Green, the Qanon kook elected to the House;is off to a great start...picking a fight with a prominent fellow GOP Congressman on the grounds he does not love D ear Leader enough:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/1...er-spat-434751

Man, I knew she would provide much amusement, but I was not expecting it to start this soon..
Guaranteed, in a few months The GOPers in the house will hate her much more then the House Dems;pretty clear she considers most of her fellow GOP congressmen as members of the Deep State.

Pooneil · 6th November 2020, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by JayUtah

In short, the claims that voter fraud is a serious problem, or has been at any time in the recent past, have no basis in historical fact.

Here is Texas we used to have voters rise from the grave to vote for LBJ.

Surely that counts as voter fraud?

Our Governor has been particularly active in trying to suppress votes from non-usual sources this years only to have his initiatives disallowed by the courts. It only antagonises fair minded people that might otherwise support him in matters of common interest, moving the state more blue.

JayUtah · 6th November 2020, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by Pooneil

Here is Texas we used to have voters rise from the grave to vote for LBJ.

Surely that counts as voter fraud?

Not in the distinction I made, but certainly in the broader sense. Voter fraud is the kind of fraud that one voter (or many voters acting individually, but with the same intent) could perpetrate. That occurs at a negligible rate. The larger category of election fraud deserves more attention, and that would include things like Johnson and the infamous Senate (I think?) election of 1948, which is what eerok was asking about, and did occur from time to time in the past, but not so much anymore as automation has taken over registration and verification. The distinction between voter fraud and election fraud is perhaps not relevant to his question. In any case, I guess it depends on what you want to call the recent past.

Cosmic Yak · 8th November 2020, 04:47 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

"SharpieGate" seems to be going around. It's a claim that AZ vote was rigged by giving Trump voters sharpies (permanent markers) to fill their ballots out, which would be rejected as invalid by the voting machine. The idea being that in person voting favored Trump, so poll workers sabotaged the process by giving out improper markers at the polls to decrease turnout.

This was pretty much debunked right away, but it's still going around conservative social media.

Sharpies are actually fine to vote with and don't cause any problems. They actually are preferred as they are fast drying and dont smear nearly as much.

Texas Sharpie Fallacy.

Kestrel · 8th November 2020, 05:01 AM

Originally Posted by eerok

This question might be better asked here rather than the election thread: has there ever been a notable case of election fraud in the history of the US? If so, any in the past fifty years?

There was fraud in a North Carolina Congressional District race a few years back. As I recall it was bad enough that the results of the election were thrown out and a special election was held later.

ETA: This was the 2018 race in NC 09.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...about-it-much/

Foggy of the Fogbow · 8th November 2020, 05:16 AM

Originally Posted by JayUtah

The Republican party's plan seems clear. Where possible, prevent the preprocessing of absentee votes, which were projected to favor Democrats. That means in-person voting, which was predicted to favor Republican candidates, makes it look like a Republican win on election night.

Except there never was a moment, from the time the first results started trickling in, where any of the networks had Turnip up in the electoral votes projected, state by state. From the minute the states started to be "called" for one side or the other, Biden was ahead, and stayed ahead. And that lasted through the entire four days after the election, until the whole thing finally came to an end. So it never really DID look like a Republican win on election night.

Not that any of that means a Republican FAIL, mind you. I'm pretty sure this wasn't a FAIL, or if it was maybe possibly a FAIL, it was a winning FAIL.

eerok · 8th November 2020, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by Kestrel

There was fraud in a North Carolina Congressional District race a few years back. As I recall it was bad enough that the results of the election were thrown out and a special election was held later.

ETA: This was the 2018 race in NC 09.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...about-it-much/

Oh, yeah. I remember that. It's pretty much a given that election hijinx is the province of the GOP.

SteveAitch · 9th November 2020, 06:52 AM

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers

Well, if his planned method was to point a stick at someone and shout "bang!"...

Dave

AKA 'Pointing the bone'*? Might work...

* See Kurdaitcha on Wikipedia.

Bubba · 9th November 2020, 10:01 AM

Biden admits it.

Quote:

'We have put together I think the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics.'

--Joe Biden

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGRn...ature=emb_logo

SuburbanTurkey · 9th November 2020, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by Bubba

Biden admits it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGRn...ature=emb_logo

That makes it even funnier that Trump lost.

Hell yeah, the commies stole it. I personally drove a uhaul of votes into Philly. Afterwards Soros bought us all pizza to thank us for our hard work.

eerok · 9th November 2020, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by Bubba

Biden admits it.

That's President-elect Biden to you.

Dave Rogers · 9th November 2020, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by Bubba

Biden admits it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGRn...ature=emb_logo

You know what's even more shocking? There are police forces that have serious crime squads!

Dave

ETA: Read https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bi...t-voter-fraud/

JayUtah · 9th November 2020, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by eerok

Oh, yeah. I remember that. It's pretty much a given that election hijinx is the province of the GOP.

That's the one I was thinking of when I said it's comparatively rare. And again, the distinction between voter fraud and election fraud may not be important. But I hope to distinguish the cases where we there is misconduct on the part of election officials, party officials, and so forth from cases where the voters themselves commit fraud.

It's not clear in this case to what extent the intended recipients of the individual absentee ballots may have acted in bad faith. If they request a ballot they are lawfully allowed to receive, complete it, and give it to someone else to deliver to the election official, then it's difficult to say the voter has committed fraud. There may be laws governing who may handle completed ballots, but it's not clear here that there was nefarious intent.

On the other hand, if a voter requests an absentee ballot in order to let other operators complete and return it on their behalf, then the voter will have colluded with the operator to commit fraud.

eerok · 9th November 2020, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by JayUtah

That's the one I was thinking of when I said it's comparatively rare. And again, the distinction between voter fraud and election fraud may not be important. But I hope to distinguish the cases where we there is misconduct on the part of election officials, party officials, and so forth from cases where the voters themselves commit fraud.

It's not clear in this case to what extent the intended recipients of the individual absentee ballots may have acted in bad faith. If they request a ballot they are lawfully allowed to receive, complete it, and give it to someone else to deliver to the election official, then it's difficult to say the voter has committed fraud. There may be laws governing who may handle completed ballots, but it's not clear here that there was nefarious intent.

On the other hand, if a voter requests an absentee ballot in order to let other operators complete and return it on their behalf, then the voter will have colluded with the operator to commit fraud.

I admit that I learned more about the US electoral process this time around than I did any other, and I'm less concerned about its fragility than I was when this election began. I thought it was easier to commit both kinds of fraud -- electoral and voting -- than appears to be the case.

Anyway, it's obvious that Trump will fail in his tantrum-driven attacks on the election. There's far too large a margin here, not to mention that the facts seem to be against him.

Bubba · 9th November 2020, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by eerok

... not to mention that the facts seem...

.....to be surfacing in FaceBook comments:

Quote:

I can't see how Biden's people think he is going to win Pennsylvania. I think it's a crime scene. First, read Justice Alito's order.

The people who pad-locked the doors, moved machines and used covid rules to deny any scrutineers from the other party - are defying the US Supreme Court. A second letter had to be written, to give meaningful access.

When Benford's Law is broken, or someone produces a video, or evidence of ballot box stuffing - that is taken to the court as evidence and sometimes there is a recount.

When did the media get to choose ? The media and Big Tech have conspired to tell the people that Donald Trump's claims of fraud are "baseless" and "lack evidence". This week, the US Supreme Court will take in that "baseless evidence" and we will hear the rule of law (as interpreted by the bench of 9 justices).

What reason would someone have to defy a clear instruction from the highest court ? It's textbook contrive to conceal.

MSM does not explain that in PA, it is not an argument over a hanging chad. This is locking observers out, then court ordered to let them in, but moving the machines and covid-ruling them to a wall, where they couldn't even see the ballots being counted from across the room. Outrageous

When a SC justice tells you to do something, you do it. If he tells you twice, (the second one being "meaningful access") and you still resist - they are resisting the legitimization of what is happening in the counting room.

The Democrats were told to provide access, then provide meaningful access...They refused to comply.

I predict the judges will flip-out over how their order was carried out and they will see the defiance as proof that fraud is being concealed .... and every ballot counted under those conditions will be tossed.

So, that's the other joy of this coming week - the learning curve of photogenic C-students (MSM) trying to explain something they don't understand, which they were told to proclaim was victory for Biden.

It's fake news. The system requires journalists, but the MSM are activists. The "news" is ultimately controlled by the owners.

With Biden, it's "His Turn." The pre-VP Biden was never rolled out. There was 8yrs as VP, groping, squeezing and kissing in photos. Would Dick Cheney have been possible without Senator Joe Biden ? CNN reports that Dick Cheney will advise Joe Biden on foreign policy. Warmongering Neocons are back in town.

Biden will do what Trump prevented - put boots on the ground in Syria. The neocons are pissed off that they weren't included in the peace conference. Russia, Turkey, Iran and Iraq and Hezbollah was included.

The neocons were about to double-down under Hillary. Trump helped vanquish the head-choppers. The people voted for Trump, then, the pee-tape-impeach-nonsense.

If Trump loses, it will be a sigh, and return to normal for emotional guidance, while Syria is destroyed, probably invaded and Ukraine is turned into a "front line state" because "Putin-bad".

It will probably start with an atrocity accusation, then tough talk from Joe.

-- FaceBook commenter

Resume · 9th November 2020, 12:39 PM

Facebook comments . . . Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

Bubba · 9th November 2020, 12:42 PM

I see "Avoid the material. Attack the source"

Resume · 9th November 2020, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Bubba

I see "Avoid the material. Attack the source"

Bare assertions and baseless claims do not evidence make. I reiterate: Facebook comments . . .

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

Bubba · 9th November 2020, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by Resume

Bare assertions and baseless claims do not evidence make. I reiterate: Facebook comments . . .

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

Its someone's opinion.

As are most statements seen above.

5th November 2020, 04:05 PM	#1
Venom Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 4,901	2020 United States presidential election - Conspiracy theories, alleged fraud, etc Let's get all the ******** out of the way. Which states have special election laws that the CTists have interpreted as "suspicious" ? What about the 138,000+ votes in Michigan that were "100 percent" for Biden? I assume this was just a snapshot in time and the keyboard warriors were doing their armchair arithmetic from their computers. Is there any word from the actual election stations about what caused that?

5th November 2020, 04:37 PM	#2
Norman Alexander Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 8,804	Any evidence that actually happened at all?
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

5th November 2020, 06:16 PM	#4
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,334	I am expecting great things from that Qanon wackjob just elected from Tennesee to the US COngress...
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

5th November 2020, 08:51 PM	#5
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 16,818	Originally Posted by dudalb I am expecting great things from that Qanon wackjob just elected from Tennesee to the US COngress... Ah, Tennessee... the natural home of consipiritards
	__________________ I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms. - Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project) If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

5th November 2020, 09:02 PM	#6
Norman Alexander Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 8,804	Originally Posted by Venom Twitter and Facebook from what I've seen. Same places where aliens were confirmed by Bob Woodward after he was beamed aboard their spaceship by Hillary Clinton from Comet Ping Pong pizza parlour. So obviously they are journals of record. Until some reputable source produces any evidence, not even worth considering beyond having a laff.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

5th November 2020, 05:50 PM	#3
Venom Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 4,901	Twitter and Facebook from what I've seen.

6th November 2020, 01:06 AM	#7
EHocking Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,548	Originally Posted by smartcooky Ah, ~~Tennessee~~ the White House... the ~~natural~~ new home of consipiritards FTFY
EHocking Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,548	__________________ "A closed mouth gathers no feet" "Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke "It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite You can't make up anything anymore. The world itself is a satire. All you're doing is recording it. Art Buchwald

6th November 2020, 08:32 AM	#8
eerok Quixoticist Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: ON Canada Posts: 3,572	The conspiracy and fraud claims related to this election are pure tantrum. I expect them to continue.
	__________________ "Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

6th November 2020, 09:52 AM	#9
JayUtah Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 19,136	The Republican party's plan seems clear. Where possible, prevent the preprocessing of absentee votes, which were projected to favor Democrats. That means in-person voting, which was predicted to favor Republican candidates, makes it look like a Republican win on election night. Then file lawsuits to prevent counting absentee votes, on the grounds that it's improper to do so or that it's being done improperly. Argue that the swing to the left means the "abnormally" cast votes are probably fraudulently cast, since they don't statistically resemble the "normal" votes cast on Election Day. Then rely on the judiciary to invalidate votes that are unfavorable to their candidates. I get how they might have hoped to fool the general public with this, to cast doubt on the validity of a Biden victory. But how they thought this could get past a court is beyond me. What I've seen of the lawsuits are laughably flimsy. And we've seen at least one of them summarily dismissed. If the plan is to foment conspiracy theories, why take the extra step of adding a filing fee to it? I doubt many of these lawsuits will make it very far.

6th November 2020, 09:56 AM	#10
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,334	Originally Posted by smartcooky Ah, Tennessee... the natural home of consipiritards From the wonderful state that gave us the Monkey trial.... The Qanon kook makes Sarah Palin look like a greaking genius.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. Last edited by dudalb; 6th November 2020 at 09:58 AM.

6th November 2020, 10:13 AM	#11
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,682	As posted in another thread by Galaxie : https://eu.jsonline.com/story/news/p...ts/6182506002/ if true, this is a clear case of Election Fraud, incited by the Trump Campaign.
	__________________ So what are you going to do about it, huh? What would an intellectual do? What would Plato do?

6th November 2020, 10:16 AM	#12
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,015	"SharpieGate" seems to be going around. It's a claim that AZ vote was rigged by giving Trump voters sharpies (permanent markers) to fill their ballots out, which would be rejected as invalid by the voting machine. The idea being that in person voting favored Trump, so poll workers sabotaged the process by giving out improper markers at the polls to decrease turnout. This was pretty much debunked right away, but it's still going around conservative social media. Sharpies are actually fine to vote with and don't cause any problems. They actually are preferred as they are fast drying and dont smear nearly as much.
	__________________ Gobble gobble

6th November 2020, 10:18 AM	#13
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,682	as long as the MAGA crowd doesn't learn about the Space Brain Laser in Hillary's garage our plan should work.
	__________________ So what are you going to do about it, huh? What would an intellectual do? What would Plato do? Last edited by The Great Zaganza; 6th November 2020 at 10:22 AM.

6th November 2020, 10:20 AM	#14
Carrot Flower King Muse Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Northumberland, UK Posts: 765	Trump himself has used absentee voting for ages, hasn't he? So, is he actually admitting that he has engaged in electoral fraud? And many members of his family...Are they all fraudsters?

6th November 2020, 10:24 AM	#15
Dave Rogers Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD Posts: 32,368	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza As posted in another thread by Galaxie : https://eu.jsonline.com/story/news/p...ts/6182506002/ if true, this is a clear case of Election Fraud, incited by the Trump Campaign. I'm not even sure it rises to the level of competence required for commission of an actual offence. It's entirely based on the presumption that there are literally thousands of potential Trump voters who registered for postal votes in good time for the election but were too lazy or too stupid to return them, and now can be motivated to get off their arses and send them in late to save the day at the eleventh hour (well, you know what I mean). If these people were too ******* idle to send their ballots in on time, why are they going to get off their arses and send them in now? Dave
	__________________ There is truth and there are lies. - President Joseph R. Biden, January 20th, 2021

6th November 2020, 10:30 AM	#16
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,682	Originally Posted by Dave Rogers I'm not even sure it rises to the level of competence required for commission of an actual offence. It's entirely based on the presumption that there are literally thousands of potential Trump voters who registered for postal votes in good time for the election but were too lazy or too stupid to return them, and now can be motivated to get off their arses and send them in late to save the day at the eleventh hour (well, you know what I mean). If these people were too ******* idle to send their ballots in on time, why are they going to get off their arses and send them in now? Dave "your Honor, yes, my Client conspired to have someone killed, but come on! He clearly never had a chance to succeed because the plan was so dumb! You have to dismiss all charges"!
	__________________ So what are you going to do about it, huh? What would an intellectual do? What would Plato do?

6th November 2020, 10:34 AM	#17
Dave Rogers Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD Posts: 32,368	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza "your Honor, yes, my Client conspired to have someone killed, but come on! He clearly never had a chance to succeed because the plan was so dumb! You have to dismiss all charges"! Well, if his planned method was to point a stick at someone and shout "bang!"... Dave
	__________________ There is truth and there are lies. - President Joseph R. Biden, January 20th, 2021

6th November 2020, 10:45 AM	#18
eerok Quixoticist Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: ON Canada Posts: 3,572	This question might be better asked here rather than the election thread: has there ever been a notable case of election fraud in the history of the US? If so, any in the past fifty years?
	__________________ "Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

6th November 2020, 11:17 AM	#19
Armitage72 Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 5,263	Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King Trump himself has used absentee voting for ages, hasn't he? So, is he actually admitting that he has engaged in electoral fraud? And many members of his family...Are they all fraudsters? Absentee voting is perfectly fine. It's voting by mail that's rife with fraud and needs to be disqualified. What's the difference? Well obviously it ... What's that over there?!? {Smokebomb} (Sneak out the back door)

6th November 2020, 02:15 PM	#20
JayUtah Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 19,136	Originally Posted by eerok This question might be better asked here rather than the election thread: has there ever been a notable case of election fraud in the history of the US? If so, any in the past fifty years? Election fraud, yes. Voter fraud -- a subset of election fraud -- yes, but almost unheard of. Election fraud includes such things as deceptive voter suppression tactics, improper mass handling of ballots, improper mass registrations, and a whole lot of stuff that can be committed before the election occurs. Some have had the potential to affect results. Most do not. Voter fraud in the past fifty years has almost never occurred. That's stuff like casting someone else's absentee ballot, trying to vote more than once, voting when you're not registered or eligible, voting in a district other than where you live. The major university study that passed quickly under my eyes in the past few days (murky, so I don't recall citations or accurate details) identified on the order of 1,500 cases of voter fraud or attempted voter fraud in 2 billion votes cast. For any given vote in the 2020 Presidential election, that's a prior probably of p < 7.5 × 10^-7 that the vote was cast fraudulently. In my home state of Utah we've voted almost exclusively by mail for the past 10 years. We have a very robust, effective, and efficient protocol for handling ballots accountably, including bipartisan observation and control. However, this is the first year our primary elections were done by mail. The Republican primary is a closed election, so the clerks had to introduce provisions to send ballots to, and make eligible, only registered Republican voters. The Democrats previously had a primary caucus, which they abandoned this year because of the pandemic in favor of an open primary (any eligible voter can vote). And for the first time, 17-year-olds could register to vote if they would turn 18 on or before Election Day. But due to a programming error, primary election ballots were sent prematurely to those 17-year-olds. But because they're barcoded, it was a trivial matter to instruct the tally computer to reject those if they were somehow submitted. There is a bipartisan audit trail for everything like that. The other thing that has happened in my state is that parents have filled out mail-in ballots for their sons and daughters serving out of town as Mormon missionaries. State law allows them to vote as absentees in that case, and the ballots were completed at the instructions of the actual voters. The parents just acted as proxies. But this is still very illegal, and they got caught. The signature-matching test failed. Ballots cannot be forwarded, but it's the voter's responsibility to make sure it's mailed to the address where they are physically located. In short, the claims that voter fraud is a serious problem, or has been at any time in the recent past, have no basis in historical fact.

6th November 2020, 02:37 PM	#21
eerok Quixoticist Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: ON Canada Posts: 3,572	Originally Posted by JayUtah In short, the claims that voter fraud is a serious problem, or has been at any time in the recent past, have no basis in historical fact. Thanks. My impression is that, apart from GOP efforts to (legally if questionably) suppress and shape voting, there has been no significant problem with election fraud or voter fraud in the US. I just wanted a more informed opinion
	__________________ "Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

6th November 2020, 04:20 PM	#22
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,334	She has not even taken the Oath yet, and already Marjorie Taylor Green, the Qanon kook elected to the House;is off to a great start...picking a fight with a prominent fellow GOP Congressman on the grounds he does not love D ear Leader enough: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/1...er-spat-434751 Man, I knew she would provide much amusement, but I was not expecting it to start this soon.. Guaranteed, in a few months The GOPers in the house will hate her much more then the House Dems;pretty clear she considers most of her fellow GOP congressmen as members of the Deep State.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

6th November 2020, 05:27 PM	#23
Pooneil Thinker Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 213	Originally Posted by JayUtah In short, the claims that voter fraud is a serious problem, or has been at any time in the recent past, have no basis in historical fact. Here is Texas we used to have voters rise from the grave to vote for LBJ. Surely that counts as voter fraud? Our Governor has been particularly active in trying to suppress votes from non-usual sources this years only to have his initiatives disallowed by the courts. It only antagonises fair minded people that might otherwise support him in matters of common interest, moving the state more blue.
Pooneil Thinker Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 213

6th November 2020, 06:20 PM	#24
JayUtah Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 19,136	Originally Posted by Pooneil Here is Texas we used to have voters rise from the grave to vote for LBJ. Surely that counts as voter fraud? Not in the distinction I made, but certainly in the broader sense. Voter fraud is the kind of fraud that one voter (or many voters acting individually, but with the same intent) could perpetrate. That occurs at a negligible rate. The larger category of election fraud deserves more attention, and that would include things like Johnson and the infamous Senate (I think?) election of 1948, which is what eerok was asking about, and did occur from time to time in the past, but not so much anymore as automation has taken over registration and verification. The distinction between voter fraud and election fraud is perhaps not relevant to his question. In any case, I guess it depends on what you want to call the recent past.

8th November 2020, 04:47 AM	#25
Cosmic Yak Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand. Posts: 3,915	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey "SharpieGate" seems to be going around. It's a claim that AZ vote was rigged by giving Trump voters sharpies (permanent markers) to fill their ballots out, which would be rejected as invalid by the voting machine. The idea being that in person voting favored Trump, so poll workers sabotaged the process by giving out improper markers at the polls to decrease turnout. This was pretty much debunked right away, but it's still going around conservative social media. Sharpies are actually fine to vote with and don't cause any problems. They actually are preferred as they are fast drying and dont smear nearly as much. Texas Sharpie Fallacy.
	__________________ Fortuna Faveat Fatuis

8th November 2020, 05:01 AM	#26
Kestrel Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 6,069	Originally Posted by eerok This question might be better asked here rather than the election thread: has there ever been a notable case of election fraud in the history of the US? If so, any in the past fifty years? There was fraud in a North Carolina Congressional District race a few years back. As I recall it was bad enough that the results of the election were thrown out and a special election was held later. ETA: This was the 2018 race in NC 09. https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...about-it-much/
	Last edited by Kestrel; 8th November 2020 at 05:06 AM.

8th November 2020, 05:16 AM	#27
Foggy of the Fogbow Thinker Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 147	Originally Posted by JayUtah The Republican party's plan seems clear. Where possible, prevent the preprocessing of absentee votes, which were projected to favor Democrats. That means in-person voting, which was predicted to favor Republican candidates, makes it look like a Republican win on election night. Except there never was a moment, from the time the first results started trickling in, where any of the networks had Turnip up in the electoral votes projected, state by state. From the minute the states started to be "called" for one side or the other, Biden was ahead, and stayed ahead. And that lasted through the entire four days after the election, until the whole thing finally came to an end. So it never really DID look like a Republican win on election night. Not that any of that means a Republican FAIL, mind you. I'm pretty sure this wasn't a FAIL, or if it was maybe possibly a FAIL, it was a winning FAIL.
	__________________ I hope y'all are still wearing your seatbelts, because this ride ain't over yet!

8th November 2020, 11:46 AM	#28
eerok Quixoticist Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: ON Canada Posts: 3,572	Originally Posted by Kestrel There was fraud in a North Carolina Congressional District race a few years back. As I recall it was bad enough that the results of the election were thrown out and a special election was held later. ETA: This was the 2018 race in NC 09. https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...about-it-much/ Oh, yeah. I remember that. It's pretty much a given that election hijinx is the province of the GOP.
	__________________ "Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

9th November 2020, 06:52 AM	#29
SteveAitch Thinker Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: St Aines Posts: 128	Originally Posted by Dave Rogers Well, if his planned method was to point a stick at someone and shout "bang!"... Dave AKA 'Pointing the bone'? Might work... See Kurdaitcha on Wikipedia.

9th November 2020, 10:01 AM	#30
Bubba Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 5,247	Biden admits it. Quote: 'We have put together I think the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics.' --Joe Biden https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGRn...ature=emb_logo
Bubba Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 5,247

9th November 2020, 10:04 AM	#31
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,015	Originally Posted by Bubba Biden admits it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGRn...ature=emb_logo That makes it even funnier that Trump lost. Hell yeah, the commies stole it. I personally drove a uhaul of votes into Philly. Afterwards Soros bought us all pizza to thank us for our hard work.
	__________________ Gobble gobble

9th November 2020, 10:26 AM	#32
eerok Quixoticist Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: ON Canada Posts: 3,572	Originally Posted by Bubba Biden admits it. That's President-elect Biden to you.
	__________________ "Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

9th November 2020, 10:32 AM	#33
Dave Rogers Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD Posts: 32,368	Originally Posted by Bubba Biden admits it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGRn...ature=emb_logo You know what's even more shocking? There are police forces that have serious crime squads! Dave ETA: Read https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bi...t-voter-fraud/
	__________________ There is truth and there are lies. - President Joseph R. Biden, January 20th, 2021 Last edited by Dave Rogers; 9th November 2020 at 10:33 AM.

9th November 2020, 10:38 AM	#34
JayUtah Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 19,136	Originally Posted by eerok Oh, yeah. I remember that. It's pretty much a given that election hijinx is the province of the GOP. That's the one I was thinking of when I said it's comparatively rare. And again, the distinction between voter fraud and election fraud may not be important. But I hope to distinguish the cases where we there is misconduct on the part of election officials, party officials, and so forth from cases where the voters themselves commit fraud. It's not clear in this case to what extent the intended recipients of the individual absentee ballots may have acted in bad faith. If they request a ballot they are lawfully allowed to receive, complete it, and give it to someone else to deliver to the election official, then it's difficult to say the voter has committed fraud. There may be laws governing who may handle completed ballots, but it's not clear here that there was nefarious intent. On the other hand, if a voter requests an absentee ballot in order to let other operators complete and return it on their behalf, then the voter will have colluded with the operator to commit fraud.

9th November 2020, 12:07 PM	#35
eerok Quixoticist Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: ON Canada Posts: 3,572	Originally Posted by JayUtah That's the one I was thinking of when I said it's comparatively rare. And again, the distinction between voter fraud and election fraud may not be important. But I hope to distinguish the cases where we there is misconduct on the part of election officials, party officials, and so forth from cases where the voters themselves commit fraud. It's not clear in this case to what extent the intended recipients of the individual absentee ballots may have acted in bad faith. If they request a ballot they are lawfully allowed to receive, complete it, and give it to someone else to deliver to the election official, then it's difficult to say the voter has committed fraud. There may be laws governing who may handle completed ballots, but it's not clear here that there was nefarious intent. On the other hand, if a voter requests an absentee ballot in order to let other operators complete and return it on their behalf, then the voter will have colluded with the operator to commit fraud. I admit that I learned more about the US electoral process this time around than I did any other, and I'm less concerned about its fragility than I was when this election began. I thought it was easier to commit both kinds of fraud -- electoral and voting -- than appears to be the case. Anyway, it's obvious that Trump will fail in his tantrum-driven attacks on the election. There's far too large a margin here, not to mention that the facts seem to be against him.
	__________________ "Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde