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Tags diebold , election conspiracies , voting issues , voting machines

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Old 22nd November 2007, 10:38 AM   #41
rwguinn
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Originally Posted by Coffee View Post
I don't think Hilary or Obama would be elected. The US populace is not mature or enlightened enough to elect a non-white or woman to the presidency. There are too many misogynists, racists and bigots in the US. The pattern of "elect the white Christian male" has been going on for a long time and will probably continue.
My, oh my.
You'd think there was a GOB conspiracy or something.
Or perhaps there are enough people who see that changing your story after every poll, re-issuing previously failed strategies, and claiming discrimination where none exists might not be a sign of character...
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Old 22nd November 2007, 11:02 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Coffee View Post
I don't think Hilary or Obama would be elected. The US populace is not mature or enlightened enough to elect a non-white or woman to the presidency. There are too many misogynists, racists and bigots in the US. The pattern of "elect the white Christian male" has been going on for a long time and will probably continue.

Originally Posted by CptColumbo View Post
That will probably be the excuse the Democrats use when they loose the election.
They might.
I could be wrong but I don't think most of the US population is ready to elect a woman or a non-white regardless of their political affiliation. I hope my pessimism about the feelings of many Americans when it comes to race and gender is wrong. I really do.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 11:05 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
Huh? A simple string within the code and the fraud is perfect.
So what Diebold techs are you referring to besides the programmer?
You think there is only oner programmer to program the thousands of unique ballots that exist on election day? Perhaps you should educate yourself on how US elections are run. On election day, there are thousands of other offices being filled besides President. Every precinct has there own unique ballots, some with hundreds of races. You would have to hack the software for all of these for your conspiracy fantasy to work.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 11:11 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by rwguinn View Post
My, oh my.
You'd think there was a GOB conspiracy or something.
Or perhaps there are enough people who see that changing your story after every poll, re-issuing previously failed strategies, and claiming discrimination where none exists might not be a sign of character...
I don't see any GOP conspiracy. A woman or non-white could run on the GOB platform or an independent ticket and wouldn't be elected president. I do hope I am wrong though.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 12:41 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by SDC View Post
How on god's green earth could an entire country believe that accords named after something called "Meese Lake" were going to work?

How's the ex-Mrs Trudeau these days?

Are the prairie provinces about to secede? Why not?

What about ... uh, which term do you use for formerly-known-as-Indians? Secession, armed rebellions, control of the cigarette business, what?

Do you prefer casinos in Windsor or Detroit?
Nice try, but it is MEECH Lake

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meech_Lake_Accord


Originally Posted by Coffee View Post
I don't think Hilary or Obama would be elected. The US populace is not mature or enlightened enough to elect a non-white or woman to the presidency. There are too many misogynists, racists and bigots in the US. The pattern of "elect the white Christian male" has been going on for a long time and will probably continue.
I think you will be proven wrong. I suspect Hillary or Obama (unlikely Obama unfortunately) will win. USA is just fed up with the present regime, and given no white male is running as a front runner for the DEMS (Edwards a distant third)...
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Old 22nd November 2007, 12:42 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Coffee View Post
I don't see any GOP conspiracy. A woman or non-white could run on the GOB platform or an independent ticket and wouldn't be elected president. I do hope I am wrong though.
The perfect storm would be if in 2012 Condi Rice ran...

TAM
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Old 22nd November 2007, 12:45 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by gtc View Post
The 2008 elections will be just as rigged as the 2004 and 2000 elections.
The better cheater always wins. There is nothing new under the sun.

Cook county Illinois, 1960 election.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 12:46 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
Would it be fair to say that more people in the USA vote with their text-message cellphones for the TV contestants on "Dancing With The Stars" than actually bother to make their way to the polling places on Election Day?
Yes
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Old 22nd November 2007, 12:50 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Alt+F4 View Post
What happened in 2000 had nothing to do with faulty voting machines, it was faulty paper ballots. Oliver should stop watching "Man of the Year" over and over again. I think Ron Paul should move to Germany and run against Merkel.
Ahh, therefore the need for computers!
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Old 22nd November 2007, 02:44 PM   #50
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no because then the truthers, computer geeks and hacks they are, would hack in and Alex Jones would become President, then armageddon would commence.

TAM
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Old 22nd November 2007, 03:01 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
no because then the truthers, computer geeks and hacks they are, would hack in and Alex Jones would become President, then armageddon would commence.

TAM
oh theyre hacks alright, but i doubt many of them are hackers, or even computer geeks
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Old 22nd November 2007, 04:08 PM   #52
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You need to approach this with the same attitude that you approach any other conspiracy theory with. It's odd that people who treat the Truthers with so much skepticism are so convinced that the 2008 election will be rigged before it has even happened.

What this shows is that the ideas of rigged elections in 2000 and 2004 are just like all of the 9/11 conspiracy theories--based on pure "Well how do you explain THIS"-type speculation while lacking any real, hard evidence whatsoever.

Is there hard proof that votes were deliberately tampered with?
Is there hard proof that ballots were deliberately miscounted?
Is there hard proof that voters were deliberately disenfranchised?
Is there hard proof that these things were done deliberately in favor of Bush?
Is there hard proof that the Republican Party is the culprit?

To me, it's no different than the 9/11 conspiracy theories. Thus, I propose to all believers in these "stolen elections", the same questions I pose to Truthers:

1) In your own words, describe exactly how the 2000 and 2004 elections were "rigged".

2) Do you have any hard evidence of your claims? Note that speculation, i.e. "Well how do you explain the..." does not count as "hard evidence".

3) What evidence would it take to get you to admit that you are wrong? (credit to Totovader for this question)
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Old 22nd November 2007, 04:33 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by rwguinn View Post
amazing how many non-citizens feel the need to pipe up on the US elections...

Is that a problem?
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Old 22nd November 2007, 05:00 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Coffee View Post
I don't see any GOP conspiracy. A woman or non-white could run on the GOB platform or an independent ticket and wouldn't be elected president. I do hope I am wrong though.

$%^&ing ijit kids.
G. O. B.
o. l o
o d y
d s

not GOP.

sigh...
Another dated reference right over their heads...
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Last edited by rwguinn; 22nd November 2007 at 05:01 PM. Reason: fix format
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Old 22nd November 2007, 06:16 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by rwguinn View Post
You actually have politics up there? I thought everybody was too occupied with just stayiing warm and Exporting whatever that "beer" is to bother...
You Americans have no right to bag anyone elses beer. You should instead be hanging your head in shame and begging forgiveness for giving this world miller "genuine draft" and budweiser. That is all.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 06:20 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Damien Evans View Post
You Americans have no right to bag anyone elses beer. You should instead be hanging your head in shame and begging forgiveness for giving this world miller "genuine draft" and budweiser. That is all.
Agreed.

Sorry.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 06:37 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Damien Evans View Post
You Americans have no right to bag anyone elses beer. You should instead be hanging your head in shame and begging forgiveness for giving this world miller "genuine draft" and budweiser. That is all.
its prohibitions fault
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Old 22nd November 2007, 06:43 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by peteweaver View Post
Hilary will be the next President anyway, the republicans have had two terms, and now its time for the Democrats... Hilary is respected abroad, and at the moment the USA has an image problem abroad.
Yeah, that seems to be the pattern. Dems win two elections, Republicans "steal" two elections, repeat.

Originally Posted by Coffee View Post
I don't think Hilary or Obama would be elected. The US populace is not mature or enlightened enough to elect a non-white or woman to the presidency. There are too many misogynists, racists and bigots in the US. The pattern of "elect the white Christian male" has been going on for a long time and will probably continue.
Oh for crying out loud.. yes, those are the ONLY reasons anyone could POSSIBLY have for not wanting to see either of those two as our next president. How ridiculous.

Anyway, 1337man wins this thread.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 08:07 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by 1337m4n View Post
Is there hard proof that votes were deliberately tampered with?
No, only anecdotal, and the authorities charged with investigating such complaints were not, in many cases, inclined to do so, as in Ohio and Florida.

Quote:
Is there hard proof that ballots were deliberately miscounted?
I'll have to look for a link but in Florida 2000, a consortium of news agencies determined that they were. Now I hear Katherine Harris is whining that she actually won the Senate race in 2006. Schandenfreude to the nth degree there.

Quote:
Is there hard proof that voters were deliberately disenfranchised?
Florida 2000 and the "felon purges" without verifying that people with similar names were not mis-identified. Harris didn't bother because it took a lot of black people off the rolls and increased the chance of her darling winning.

Quote:
Is there hard proof that these things were done deliberately in favor of Bush?
Either that or Harris is the most dispicible and lazy elected official ever to serve asa a Secretary of State anywhere in the country, second only to Kenneth Blackwell, who is down-right evil and malicious.

Quote:
Is there hard proof that the Republican Party is the culprit?
Some idiot on Karl Rove's staff e-mailed proof of that to a friend of Greg Palast's, who happily turned it over to Palast.

Quote:
3) What evidence would it take to get you to admit that you are wrong? (credit to Totovader for this question)
If Kenneth Blackwell turned over every scrap of paper related to the elections in Ohio 2004 and they verified everything he said. But that is not going to happen because he has already destroyerd evidence in defiance of court orders.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 08:25 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by maxpower1227 View Post
Yeah, that seems to be the pattern. Dems win two elections, Republicans "steal" two elections, repeat.



Oh for crying out loud.. yes, those are the ONLY reasons anyone could POSSIBLY have for not wanting to see either of those two as our next president. How ridiculous.

Anyway, 1337man wins this thread.
Certainly there are people will not vote for either due to differences in political ideology. To say that race and gender is not a factor at all would be ridiculous. To some people race and gender does matter.
I'm not suggesting there's a "white male conspiracy" or anything like that. I am simply saying there are a lot of racists and bigots and they can vote.
I do hope that I am wrong about how much of a factor race and gender will be in the minds of most voters.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 08:28 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME View Post
Agreed.

Sorry.
[offtopic] Jerome, how on earth have you amassed over 1600 posts in a mere month? lol [/offtopic]
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Old 22nd November 2007, 08:31 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by rwguinn View Post

$%^&ing ijit kids.
G. O. B.
o. l o
o d y
d s

not GOP.

sigh...
Another dated reference right over their heads...
Oops. A thousand apologies. I read G.O.B. in your post as GOP. I was just an "ijit kid" when the term G.O.B. was used. I barely remember that being thrown around during the Reagan years. I was still in grade school then.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 08:32 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Hyperviolet View Post
[offtopic] Jerome, how on earth have you amassed over 1600 posts in a mere month? lol [/offtopic]
I type fast.

I join multiple threads at the same time and post back and forth between them. This allows for a glorious amount of thinking!
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Old 22nd November 2007, 08:39 PM   #64
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Can those claiming the election is rigged please tell me who the winner is going to be?
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Old 22nd November 2007, 08:44 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Jonnyclueless View Post
Can those claiming the election is rigged please tell me who the winner is going to be?
Yeah, we want to make a few bucks off it
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Old 22nd November 2007, 09:23 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by leftysergeant View Post
Florida 2000 and the "felon purges" without verifying that people with similar names were not mis-identified. Harris didn't bother because it took a lot of black people off the rolls and increased the chance of her darling winning.
Harris wasn't involved in those felon purges, IIRC. The law stipulated that lists of known felons be compiled by a contracted company. The company which compiled the lists used in the 2000 elections had its contract signed before Harris became Secretary of State, and long before the election. In addition, the law stated that it was the responsibility of the local governments--not the Secretary of State--to remove blacklisted names from voter rolls. Harris would be free of responsibility. This is even confirmed by Clay Roberts.

Even if Harris did have some kind of responsibility, there's still no proof that any shirking of said responsibility was a deliberate act intended to rig the election.

Quote:
Some idiot on Karl Rove's staff e-mailed proof of that to a friend of Greg Palast's, who happily turned it over to Palast.
I had to dig through a dozen random blogs to find one containing a link to "some of the e-mails", none of which looked in any way incriminating. Perhaps you could point me in the right direction.

Quote:
If Kenneth Blackwell turned over every scrap of paper related to the elections in Ohio 2004 and they verified everything he said. But that is not going to happen because he has already destroyerd evidence in defiance of court orders.
Has Blackwell been convicted of anything?

In any case, if you're saying that the evidence that would convince you is something that nobody would be able to provide even if you were wrong, you're going to have to revise your answer to this question. It's like demanding someone give you a live unicorn in order to prove their loyalty.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 09:24 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
But seriously: Did something change besides Diebold's
Voting machine names?
Why did the Democrats win in 2006?
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Old 22nd November 2007, 09:31 PM   #68
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Oliver don't you have politicians and elections in your own country to worry about?

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Old 22nd November 2007, 09:37 PM   #69
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It's a good thing that there is no rule limiting the number of threads a single poster can start about the same frigging topic disguised as a subset of said topic.

I'm all for free expression and I defend it vigorously, but JFC, it grows wearisome when someone who doesn't know squat about a particular subject starts multiple threads on the same subject across numerous subforums, ad nauseam.

As to the OP, the answer is "see above" and "see the last dozen threads you've started on the same over-arching subject matter."
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Old 22nd November 2007, 10:27 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Damien Evans View Post
You Americans have no right to bag anyone elses beer. You should instead be hanging your head in shame and begging forgiveness for giving this world miller "genuine draft" and budweiser. That is all.
Are you countering with Molson, or Molson Ice?
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Old 22nd November 2007, 11:14 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by mortimer View Post
Are you countering with Molson, or Molson Ice?
No, he's an Aussie. Let him explain Foster's!



(I know - Americans like it... but the Aussies really don't drink much of it, and like their beer a little stronger-tasting. VB is an excellent mass-produced beer, for instance.)
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Old 22nd November 2007, 11:20 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
No, he's an Aussie. Let him explain Foster's!



(I know - Americans like it... but the Aussies really don't drink much of it, and like their beer a little stronger-tasting. VB is an excellent mass-produced beer, for instance.)
lol, the fosters you buy in america is brewed in canada (at least thats how it used to be)
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Old 23rd November 2007, 01:53 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by gumboot View Post
Oliver don't you have politicians and elections in your own country to worry about?

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Oliver doesn't vote.
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Old 23rd November 2007, 02:37 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME View Post
I type fast.

I join multiple threads at the same time and post back and forth between them. This allows for a glorious amount of thinking!
At least one of these days it might.
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Old 23rd November 2007, 02:49 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by gumboot View Post
Oliver don't you have politicians and elections in your own country to worry about?

-Gumboot

Sure. We do have politicians and elections. But we have
no rigged elections to laugh about..
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Old 23rd November 2007, 06:04 AM   #76
Giggywig
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Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
Sure. We do have politicians and elections. But we have
no rigged elections to laugh about..
And the US does?
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Old 23rd November 2007, 06:41 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by 1337m4n View Post
Why did the Democrats win in 2006?
Enough of us voted on paper that there was no way to fix it.

As for evidence of criminal action on Blackwell's part, the abscense of evidence that was supposed to be maintained to verify that the election was not tampered is, in itself, a crime.
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Old 23rd November 2007, 08:10 AM   #78
mortimer
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Originally Posted by leftysergeant View Post
Enough of us voted on paper that there was no way to fix it.
You're joking, right?

So if Reps win, it's because they cheated. If Dems win, it's because the Reps couldn't cheat enough to overcome the sheer number of Dems who voted.
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Old 23rd November 2007, 08:15 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by mortimer View Post
You're joking, right?

So if Reps win, it's because they cheated. If Dems win, it's because the Reps couldn't cheat enough to overcome the sheer number of Dems who voted.
Yeah, where have you been for the past 7 years? The Republicans never win an election unless by fraudulent means. Heck, it's been going on since 1960.

Wait...
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Old 23rd November 2007, 08:28 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by gumboot View Post
Oliver don't you have politicians and elections in your own country to worry about?

-Gumboot
Yes, but they don't involve mindless, baseless reflex criticisms of the U.S.

I know Oliver says he's in his thirties, but his posts read to me like those of an adolescent who has just discovered the real doesn't always live up to the ideal - and has had his universe thoroughly shattered by the discovery.
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