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Tags diebold , election conspiracies , voting issues , voting machines

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Old 23rd November 2007, 09:52 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by mortimer View Post
You're joking, right?

So if Reps win, it's because they cheated. If Dems win, it's because the Reps couldn't cheat enough to overcome the sheer number of Dems who voted.
lefty is the new perry logan, thats the same reason he gave for the dem winning 2006, the repubilicans just didnt cheat enough this time
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Old 23rd November 2007, 09:56 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
No, he's an Aussie. Let him explain Foster's!
Always hated Fosters, even the imported stuff before they started brewing it domestically. Heineken is also brewed domestically now btw.

At any rate, I always found Foster's too sweet with a bad aftertaste.

And there's plenty of great beers brewed in America by the many different microbreweries. I'm still pissed off that Bell's is no longer distributed in Illinois, stupid beer distributuon monopolies. At least there's still Sierra Nevada, the Celebration Ale's will hit the stores shortly. My favorite beer period, imported or domestic.
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Old 23rd November 2007, 10:46 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Giggywig View Post
And the US does?
Only ones involving Daleys.
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Old 23rd November 2007, 10:53 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
Always hated Fosters, even the imported stuff before they started brewing it domestically. Heineken is also brewed domestically now btw.

At any rate, I always found Foster's too sweet with a bad aftertaste.

And there's plenty of great beers brewed in America by the many different microbreweries. I'm still pissed off that Bell's is no longer distributed in Illinois, stupid beer distributuon monopolies. At least there's still Sierra Nevada, the Celebration Ale's will hit the stores shortly. My favorite beer period, imported or domestic.
I always found Fosters so-so. Great Yank microbrews? Drive down just a lil' south to this hidden gem. http://www.threefloyds.com/
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Old 23rd November 2007, 04:11 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by leftysergeant View Post
Enough of us voted on paper that there was no way to fix it.

As for evidence of criminal action on Blackwell's part, the abscense of evidence that was supposed to be maintained to verify that the election was not tampered is, in itself, a crime.

There is zero evidence of any Republican vote "fixing" in either 2000 or 2004. There is plenty of evidence that Democratic vote fraud tilted a Senate race in North Dakota in 2002, a gubernatorial contest in Washington in 2004, and the presidential results in Wisconsin in both 2000 and 2004. The tiny problem the Bush-bashers won't ever mention is that Bush in 2004 lead in the realclearpolitics aggregate of all national polls. To pretend, as do Steven Freeman and Bob Fitrakis, that Kerry really won by 6.5 million votes is to argue that every national poll was wrong by more than double its margin of error.
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Old 24th November 2007, 02:00 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by pomeroo View Post
There is zero evidence of any Republican vote "fixing" in either 2000 or 2004.
There is evidence that people were removed unlawfully from the voter rolls in Florida by declaring them felons on the word of a computer consulting company without providing any cross-checking. That is called denial of due process. I'm glad Harris is out of a job now, because she had an opportunity to do what the consultants who made up the lists told her she needed to do, but failed to do so.

Don't give me any blather aboput the law's requiring that felons be removed from the list. FIRST they need to be proven to have been felons, and there is no proof that they were so proven in many cases. The voters removed from the rolls still need to appeal to the Florida State Board of Pardons and Parole to get re-instated. Like that doesn't cost money? Pu-leeeeeze!

Quote:
There is plenty of evidence that Democratic vote fraud tilted a Senate race in North Dakota in 2002
Care to source that?

Quote:
, a gubernatorial contest in Washington in 2004,
With Dino the whimpering punk taking a predominantly Democratic city on electronic voting machines that could not be recounted, but which, according to Bev Harris may have reset themselves during voting? I don't think so. The next biggest percentage for whiney little Dino? Yakima County. Guess what kind of voting equiopment they had. Electronic with no paper trail.

Quote:
and the presidential results in Wisconsin in both 2000 and 2004. The tiny problem the Bush-bashers won't ever mention is that Bush in 2004 lead in the realclearpolitics aggregate of all national polls. To pretend, as do Steven Freeman and Bob Fitrakis, that Kerry really won by 6.5 million votes is to argue that every national poll was wrong by more than double its margin of error.
And then there were the voters that Kenneth Blackwell screwed out of their votes, after they stood in lines for hours on end, maybe giving up because they had to go to work or be fired because the little sleazeball did not put anywhere near enough machines into black neighborhoods as he did white neighborhoods.

And that thug was supposed to have preserved all the paper from the 2004 elections. Where is it? Just prove that Bush actually did win there and that the ballots not counted really were cast by inelligible voters.

And don't get me started on Karl Rove and the voter caging lists.
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Old 24th November 2007, 06:43 AM   #87
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I don't know about the 2008 election but there is strong evidence the 2000 was tampered with. But not by Bush, by the company that makes the paper used in florida. Why? To sell electronic touchscreens which they invested in. I saw about 8 people from the company on HDNet say managment told them to change the die just for florida with the absurd reason that its more humid in florida. No othe humid state was changed. The die was tested by a scientist who said the change caused the hanging chads. It ONLY happened in the presidencial columns. But in general there is always some form of cheating. Some repubicans join the democatic party just to vote for the worse candidate in Iowa for instance. The dems do it too.
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Old 24th November 2007, 08:21 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by FactCheck View Post
I don't know about the 2008 election but there is strong evidence the 2000 was tampered with. But not by Bush, by the company that makes the paper used in florida. Why? To sell electronic touchscreens which they invested in. I saw about 8 people from the company on HDNet say managment told them to change the die just for florida with the absurd reason that its more humid in florida. No othe humid state was changed. The die was tested by a scientist who said the change caused the hanging chads. It ONLY happened in the presidencial columns. But in general there is always some form of cheating. Some repubicans join the democatic party just to vote for the worse candidate in Iowa for instance. The dems do it too.
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Old 24th November 2007, 08:21 AM   #89
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I like I said, the best cheater wins.
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Old 24th November 2007, 04:49 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by leftysergeant View Post
There is evidence that people were removed unlawfully from the voter rolls in Florida by declaring them felons on the word of a computer consulting company without providing any cross-checking. That is called denial of due process. I'm glad Harris is out of a job now, because she had an opportunity to do what the consultants who made up the lists told her she needed to do, but failed to do so.

Don't give me any blather aboput the law's requiring that felons be removed from the list. FIRST they need to be proven to have been felons, and there is no proof that they were so proven in many cases. The voters removed from the rolls still need to appeal to the Florida State Board of Pardons and Parole to get re-instated. Like that doesn't cost money? Pu-leeeeeze!

A few hundred people may have been wrongly prevented from voting. Over six thousand felons voted illegally.


Originally Posted by leftysergeant View Post
Care to source that?

"Bad Lands, Bad Votes," by Byron York (National Review, December 23, 2002)

(Unfortunately, this article is not available online. It can be ordered from the NR store.)


Originally Posted by leftysergeant View Post
With Dino the whimpering punk taking a predominantly Democratic city on electronic voting machines that could not be recounted, but which, according to Bev Harris may have reset themselves during voting?


Bev Harris is a bad joke who makes wild assertions she can't support. No anomalies were discovered in voting patterns.



Originally Posted by leftysergeant View Post
I don't think so. The next biggest percentage for whiney little Dino? Yakima County. Guess what kind of voting equiopment they had. Electronic with no paper trail.

"The Sound of Stealing," by Richard Baehr

http://www.americanthinker.com/2004/..._stealing.html



Originally Posted by leftysergeant View Post
And then there were the voters that Kenneth Blackwell screwed out of their votes, after they stood in lines for hours on end, maybe giving up because they had to go to work or be fired because the little sleazeball did not put anywhere near enough machines into black neighborhoods as he did white neighborhoods.

Democrat propaganda about voters standing in long lines is just that. Neither you nor any other Dem cares about the long lines in NYC, or Philadelphia, or Detroit, or Chicago. Let's bury the myth about Blackwell being responsible for the shortage of voting machines. County supervisors order the machines, and in Democratic counties those supervisors are Democrats. That happens to be the reason the same counties have long lines every election. Duh.

(From "Recount 2004," by Rich Lowry)
"The conspiracy theorists focus on Franklin County, home of the heavily Democratic city of Columbus. They allege, among other things, that long lines there on Election Day were a cagey tactic to keep blacks from voting. It just happens that Anthony is chairman of the Franklin County Board of Elections and also chairman of the Franklin County Democratic party. "I am a black man," he told the Columbus Dispatch. "Why would I sit there and disenfranchise voters in my own community?" Good question."




Originally Posted by leftysergeant View Post
And that thug was supposed to have preserved all the paper from the 2004 elections. Where is it? Just prove that Bush actually did win there and that the ballots not counted really were cast by inelligible voters.

A baseless slander. Blackwell is a "thug" because he dared to leave the plantation. The Democratic smear machine had to destroy him. All of the left's innumerate falsehoods about the exit polls have been refuted by Democratic pollster (!) Mark Blumenthal (see pollster.com, the four-part series "Was RFK, Jr. Right About the Exit Polls?")


Originally Posted by leftysergeant View Post
And don't get me started on Karl Rove and the voter caging lists.

Would you like to get started on Terry McAuliffe's refusal to consider Ken Mehlman's request to organize bi-partisan monitoring groups in heavily-populated precincts? Why not?

Last edited by pomeroo; 24th November 2007 at 05:08 PM. Reason: Add comments
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Old 24th November 2007, 05:11 PM   #91
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To all you yahoos bellyakin about "no paper trail"--I have voted in every election I was elegible to vot in since 1975.
Except 1 time absentee, and once in Colorado--I have NEVER-EVER-VOTED on a paper ballot.
BTW--I vote Dem as often as Rep, and never a straight ticket-like any thinking person.
Like Santa Clause, THERE IS NO (RULE10) Conspiracy to steal elections.
So knock off the Bull(rule10) and find something legitimate to gripe about, or STFU--OKAY?
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Old 24th November 2007, 05:15 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Elizabeth I View Post
Yes, but they don't involve mindless, baseless reflex criticisms of the U.S.

I know Oliver says he's in his thirties, but his posts read to me like those of an adolescent who has just discovered the real doesn't always live up to the ideal - and has had his universe thoroughly shattered by the discovery.
You have to realize that his avatar was at one point Ralph Quimby.
Quote:
To all you yahoos bellyakin about "no paper trail"--I have voted in every election I was elegible to vot in since 1975.
Except 1 time absentee, and once in Colorado--I have NEVER-EVER-VOTED on a paper ballot.
BTW--I vote Dem as often as Rep, and never a straight ticket-like any thinking person.
Like Santa Clause, THERE IS NO (RULE10) Conspiracy to steal elections.
So knock off the Bull(rule10) and find something legitimate to gripe about, or STFU--OKAY?
I just realized something. The mechanical machines don't have a paper trail... or do they?

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Old 24th November 2007, 05:16 PM   #93
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lol

I'm guessing this topic is a particular annoyance to you rwguinn. Can't say I blame you.

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Old 24th November 2007, 05:24 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by rwguinn View Post
To all you yahoos bellyakin about "no paper trail"--I have voted in every election I was elegible to vot in since 1975.
Except 1 time absentee, and once in Colorado--I have NEVER-EVER-VOTED on a paper ballot.
BTW--I vote Dem as often as Rep, and never a straight ticket-like any thinking person.
Like Santa Clause, THERE IS NO (RULE10) Conspiracy to steal elections.
So knock off the Bull(rule10) and find something legitimate to gripe about, or STFU--OKAY?
Cook county Illinois, 1960 election.


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Old 24th November 2007, 05:33 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME View Post
Cook county Illinois, 1960 election.


Wrong. You butcher history and cherry pick facts so much that it pretty much was a given in this case. It's just another vague argument.
Quote:
That question remains unsolved and unsolvable. But what's typically left out of the legend is that multiple election boards saw no reason to overturn the results. Neither did state or federal judges. Neither did an Illinois special prosecutor in 1961. And neither have academic inquiries into the Illinois case (both a 1961 study by three University of Chicago professors and more recent research by political scientist Edmund Kallina concluded that whatever fraud existed wasn't substantial enough to alter the election).
http://www.slate.com/id/91350/

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Old 24th November 2007, 05:35 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by technoextreme View Post
Wrong.
Right
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Old 24th November 2007, 05:38 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by mortimer View Post
Are you countering with Molson, or Molson Ice?
Nope, I'm countering with Carlton Draught, and Crown Premium Lager

ETA: Oh, and Australians don't drink Fosters, in fact it's hard to find over here because no-one wants it
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Old 24th November 2007, 06:18 PM   #98
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Cook county population in 1960 was 5,129,725. (this includes children and those ineligible to vote)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cook_County,_Illinois

Cook county votes cast in 1960 was 2,445,269.
Election data

Kennedy won Illinois by just over 4,000 votes.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/US_electio...396906,00.html

Cook county did not release the vote count until after midnight.
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=425967
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Old 24th November 2007, 06:24 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by technoextreme View Post
Wrong. You butcher history and cherry pick facts so much that it pretty much was a given in this case. It's just another vague argument.

http://www.slate.com/id/91350/


Well, if you are going to use Slate to show there was not election fraud in Cook county, I will use Slate to prove my point that there is cheating in elections.

Quote:
Indeed, election fraud in Florida long precedes the 2000 debacle.

http://www.slate.com/id/2105524/
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Old 24th November 2007, 06:40 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by leftysergeant View Post
The machines are only a part of the problem. But that is a big one. There is no way to verify the results recorded on them. and they are not invulnerable to hacking by unscrupulous elections workers. Howard Dean has demonstrated that.

Real votes are on paper ballots and can be recounted by hand.

Canada seems never to have a problem. Why should we?

Beyond the unreliabilty of the machines, there is the conflict of interest in several states. What happened in Ohio is criminal, to my thinking. What on earth was a member of Bush's election campaign organization doing running elections?

There is no way to prove that the elections in Ohio were conducted in an ethical manner. Blackwell deliberately knocked people off the rolls with arbitrary directives that would make Catbert of the Dilbert comic strip green with envy.
Neither do we have the same problem in Sweden. Must be some sort of strange coincidence.
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Old 24th November 2007, 06:47 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME View Post
Cook county population in 1960 was 5,129,725. (this includes children and those ineligible to vote)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cook_County,_Illinois

Cook county votes cast in 1960 was 2,445,269.
Election data
is this suspicious?

(from the wiki article)
Quote:
In the county the population was spread out with 26.0% under the age of 18
assuming this was roughly true in 1960 as well the 2.4 million voters doesnt seem unreasonable

also wiki states kennedy won IL by 9000 votes, not 4000

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...#Controversies
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Old 24th November 2007, 06:50 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by rwguinn View Post
Wooo Woooo WOOOO Wooo...
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http://www.hd.net/drr227.html

It's not paranoia when you have evidence. I have evidence.
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Old 24th November 2007, 06:59 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by FactCheck View Post
http://www.hd.net/drr227.html

It's not paranoia when you have evidence. I have evidence.
poorly calibrated touchscreens hardly seems like a conspiracy to intentionally swing the vote one way or the other
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Old 24th November 2007, 07:00 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe View Post
is this suspicious?
The part where Cook county waited to see the other counts before reveling their count; yes.

Quote:
assuming this was roughly true in 1960 as well the 2.4 million voters doesnt seem unreasonable
Amazing assumption considering this was baby boom time.

Quote:
also wiki states kennedy won IL by 9000 votes, not 4000
Different source. Not a difference that matters to this talk. I concede 9000 is need be.
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Old 24th November 2007, 07:04 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME View Post
The part where Cook county waited to see the other counts before reveling their count; yes.
but that has nothing to do with the population of the county, does it?

you seem to be implying that more people voted than were eligible to vote, do you have any evidence to back this up?
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Old 24th November 2007, 07:06 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME View Post
Well, if you are going to use Slate to show there was not election fraud in Cook county, I will use Slate to prove my point that there is cheating in elections.
Hahhaha.. You didn't even bother to read the article. I was perfectly willing to concede the fact that there was election fraud because the article said there was. The problem being that it didn't seem like anything signifificant. You've got a few people saying it didn't matter. A bunch of areas that were overcounted Nixon.
Quote:
you seem to be implying that more people voted than were eligible to vote, do you have any evidence to back this up?
I don't know. I shall do some more research later because there were a couple hundred people charged with a crime. For this fact he is right though I wouldn't trust anything else. Though with such close results I really wouldn't be surprised that just plain old human error played a role. It's not like we are dealing with machines when we have a paper trail.

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Old 24th November 2007, 08:09 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME View Post
Cook county Illinois, 1960 election.



I'll buy that one--and most Cook County elections...
Vote early, vote often...
Or in that case, vote "Late", vote ofteen--as in "the late Mr. Johnson..."
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Old 24th November 2007, 08:43 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe View Post
poorly calibrated touchscreens hardly seems like a conspiracy to intentionally swing the vote one way or the other
I see not only did you not understand my post but didn't see the whole video. Now start from about 40 min into the video. See the 7 people from the company that makes the paper sent to florida?

I didn't say they intentionally changed the touch screens to swing the vote. I said there is evidence someone in that ballet company intentionally created a problem with the paper just so they can sell touchscreens. And if they did it worked because they sold a lot of touchscreens.

Lets not be like twoofers and deny evidence. At a minimum there should be an investigation.
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Old 24th November 2007, 09:03 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by peteweaver View Post
Hilary will be the next President anyway, the republicans have had two terms, and now its time for the Democrats... Hilary is respected abroad, and at the moment the USA has an image problem abroad.
Democrats are typically bad at fostering free trade so I'm all for rigging the Diebold machines to make them lose. (PS: I am a Canadian)

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q...zVjMzBmMjZlM2M=
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Old 24th November 2007, 09:38 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by FactCheck View Post
I see not only did you not understand my post but didn't see the whole video. Now start from about 40 min into the video. See the 7 people from the company that makes the paper sent to florida?

I didn't say they intentionally changed the touch screens to swing the vote. I said there is evidence someone in that ballet company intentionally created a problem with the paper just so they can sell touchscreens. And if they did it worked because they sold a lot of touchscreens.

Lets not be like twoofers and deny evidence. At a minimum there should be an investigation.
and lets not be truthers and connect dots that have no logical connection

so lets take the shady business practices, how does this result in a "rigged" election? (or is that no longer the topic at hand?)
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Old 24th November 2007, 09:41 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe View Post
and lets not be truthers and connect dots that have no logical connection

so lets take the shady business practices, how does this result in a "rigged" election? (or is that no longer the topic at hand?)
Watch the video.
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Old 24th November 2007, 10:02 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME View Post
Watch the video.
thats what the truthers always tell me too

why cant you just answer a simple question rather than directing me to an hour long google video?
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Old 24th November 2007, 10:16 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe View Post
thats what the truthers always tell me too

why cant you just answer a simple question rather than directing me to an hour long google video?
Are you admitting to commenting without examining the evidence presented?

This is the opposite of skeptical inquiry.
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Old 24th November 2007, 10:16 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe View Post
and lets not be truthers and connect dots that have no logical connection

so lets take the shady business practices, how does this result in a "rigged" election? (or is that no longer the topic at hand?)
Are you saying there is no logical connection between the fact that they purposefully changed the die ONLY for Florida with the absurd excuse of HUMIDITY - something they never did before in over 25 years and didn't do in any other humid state - and creating a crisis in voting to sell touch screens which had poor sales before it???

Make no mistake about it, this is equal to people involved in a 9/11 conspiracy coming out and giving names, dates, places and times. Would you say "lets not be truthers and connect dots that have no logical connection"??? Wouldn't you at the very least want an investigation? That's what the workers did. There is even a paper trail.

You can have a conspiracy to rig an election for profit regardless of who wins. You rig it to have problems in order to sell your more expensive product.

Can you explain the humidity argument and the place it was sent to being the problem area during the elections? Or the scientist who proved it was the die which caused the hanging chads on the presidential column? And the discarding of defective paper rolls just before the media came? I mean I could have been liberal and said this was a plot to make Bush president but I have no evidence of that. There IS evidence of tampering though. Enough to warrant an investigation.
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Old 24th November 2007, 10:24 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by FactCheck View Post
You can have a conspiracy to rig an election for profit regardless of who wins. You rig it to have problems in order to sell your more expensive product.
seems we have a difference of terms then, as far as im concerned tampering with equipment without intent to swing the vote one way or another doesnt amount to rigging the election, since i dont equate the election itself with the equipment used
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Old 25th November 2007, 05:56 AM   #116
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HBO's "Hacking Democracy" shows how ease it was to
manipulate Voting Machines - for those who can laugh
about it as well...

http://video.google.de/videoplay?doc...76866669054201

Google Video This video is not hosted by the ISF, the ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

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Old 25th November 2007, 06:01 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
HBO's "Hacking Democracy" shows how ease it was to
manipulate Voting Machines - for those who can laugh
about it as well...

http://video.google.de/videoplay?doc...76866669054201

Google Video This video is not hosted by the ISF, the ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

Great documentary and for anyone who really still believes that we live in some sort of a democracy, it will make you cry. It is absurd how easy it was for those people to hack into the machines and change the outcomes.
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Old 25th November 2007, 07:53 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
HBO's "Hacking Democracy" shows how ease it was to
manipulate Voting Machines - for those who can laugh
about it as well...

http://video.google.de/videoplay?doc...76866669054201

Google Video This video is not hosted by the ISF, the ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
What this is evidence for is that you can hack an electronic voting machine. If and who hacked it is much harder to prove.

Kerry was the Singiya of the democrat party before Iowa. Hell, he still is to me. It's like "Vote for the worse" was the theme of that election, rigged or not.
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Old 25th November 2007, 01:34 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by FactCheck View Post
What this is evidence for is that you can hack an electronic voting machine. If and who hacked it is much harder to prove.
No, but the mere possibility that you can hack into an electronic voting machine is a cause for grave, really grave concern.

Compare with the system of pre-printed paper ballots. In the Riksdagselection 2002 the party Fria Listan (The Free List) got lots of votes disqualified beacuse they printed their own paper ballots. And there was no discussion about it. No 2000 crap about "pregnant" votes and "intentions". They botched it. Big time. Period.

And in 1988 (I think) it was front page news that a bag with some 240-260 votes by mail had been forgotten at some postal office.

My question is: Have the american elections at state and lower levels the same possibilites for errors?

Last edited by Father Dagon; 25th November 2007 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 25th November 2007, 01:45 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by Father Dagon View Post
My question is: Have the american elections at state and lower levels the same possibilites for errors?

Loser for Maryland Governor Files Suit to Overturn Election

Quote:
Mrs. Sauerbrey's lawsuit focuses on ballots in the three voting districts won by Mr. Glendening, Baltimore and Prince Georges and Montgomery Counties. Mrs. Sauerbrey, the former Republican leader of the Maryland House, won the state's 21 other voting districts.
Sauerbrey won 21 of 24 districts and lost the election!


And you thought politics in Louisiana were bad.

Quote:
Further, the suit charges that Baltimore election board officials overreported Mr. Glendening's total count by 1,473, that 84 people in the city voted twice, that 71 voters in Baltimore and Montgomery County gave addresses that were abandoned buildings and that 37 votes were recorded for people who are dead.

The joke is on those that think elections are real.
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