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Old 15th August 2013, 04:11 PM   #41
Castro
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Originally Posted by dmaker View Post
I guess Chris is saying that if we can't tell a chimp from a gorilla then we are also not qualified to tell a blob from a squatch in his scenery pics.
I guess you missed the bigfoot in Chris' pics. It stands right between Santa Claus and Michael Jackson.
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Old 15th August 2013, 04:51 PM   #42
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This is a brief post to clarify that upthread, I posted a link to a wiki page which purports to contain a pic of a Cross River gorilla taken in 1906. I made the mistake of taking wiki's word on the claim, without examining the photo for myself. I glanced at the small pic, read the (now falsified) blurb and posted the link here.

My bad! I consider wiki as the beginning of research, not the end. This is one of the few times I've linked to something on the wiki site without first vetting it for myself.

I'll take it as an object lesson in critical thinking and the adage that one should always check one's sources.

ETA: The pic's file history says it came from this site about the Ibo of Nigeria. The words "Young gorilla (?) killed at Asaba, So. Nigeria, west Africa, 1906." are hand-written (apparently by an anonymous chronicler, possibly but not definitely the photographer) at the base of the photograph.

ETA2: Here's the page on the Ibo site that contains the pic. The author of that site does not claim the animal is a Cross River gorilla. The error, then, originates with wikipedia editor AdamFromTheVillage, who on Dec. 17, 2012 added the false description: "Igbo children with a dead Cross River Gorilla." -- whether by honest mistake or intentional fraud remains unclear.

ETA3: However, the Ibo site does attribute the photo to "R. L. Beard", which a quick yahoo search reveals is a joke internet name. For me this is where the trail runs dry, and with that I'll drop it.
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Old 15th August 2013, 08:21 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY
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There is no way possible to have an intelligent conversation about primate anatomy with folks that can't tell the difference between a chimp and a gorilla. I never said anyone was foolish. As a matter of record, I don't name call if someone doesn't agree with my opinion.



Bill Munns has put together a very informative presentation that addresses many of the skeptical issues with the PGF to my satisfaction. Yet the most common response on skeptic sites is to attack Bill's character or qualifications, and those of anyone that may agree with his findings.



Many claim to "see no movement" on the two specific frames used for the "shockwave" portion of the presentation. Well, I do see movement as does anyone else that views those frames. So the arguments otherwise to me seem dishonest.



So once again I will say, there is no way possible to have an intelligent conversation about primate anatomy with folks that can't tell the difference between a chimp and a gorilla.



Folks that argue Patty's muscle shape should be an exact match with those of humans,it's ridiculous. Possible resemblances may be noted, but not an exact match muscle shape per muscle shape of two separate species.



Bill's "shockwave" presentation concentrates on movement thru soft tissue which is fluid dynamics and as Bill has shown, these results are testable and repeatable. No need for an exact match of size and shape of the "vessels" thru which the shockwave travels, only the similar wave shape need be observed (or the lack of wave travel). Chris B.
Chris knew it was a chimpanzee the whole time, apparently. The fact that some members did not, is a matter of importance for Chris, he mentions it twice, but does not consider "gotcha" moments "productive".

Something I find rather typical is his dismissal of the arguments here because some "attack Bill's character or qualifications" .. sure let's seize on that, that's all people do.. have done.. in these threads is attack Munns' character. Someone might be "offended" by such attacks on Munns' "character" , but an honest person does not just run off at the slightest offense with their "victory" "card" like that. " Welp, most of the members there are mean to Bill, therefore I can dismiss everything everyone there has ever said! "

I think most know that Chris was never here to discuss the PGF, or discuss other possibilities to the Bigfoot phenomena that do not involve Bigfoot existing in modern Kentucky, as HarryHenderson points out here a couple of days ago :

Originally Posted by HarryHenderson View Post
The hilarity is you thinking you're trying to convince us of something. You're just trying to convince yourself. Why else come to this vast wasteland of Buzz Killington skeptics, known to have zero respect for your Bigfoot idol Bill Munns? And then make over 100 posts in less than a week's time defending him and Bigfoot? FTR I post less in an entire year. It's as if Bigfoot's cosmic license to exist depends solely on the amount of BIF™ (Bigfoot Intestinal Fortitude™) you can sustain in a hostile environment. That is, if you can endure the JREF hell and come out the other end perhaps scathed but still bleevin, then Bigfoot LIVES!
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Old 15th August 2013, 08:28 PM   #44
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Using the cross river gorilla as an example that animals can stay elusive is frowned upon, yet something as genetically different from Bigfoot like a wolverine is used as an example that animals can't stay hidden?
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Old 15th August 2013, 09:02 PM   #45
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You're still missing the point about the gorillas. They are rare because people hunt them and destroy their habitat. If they were elusive like bigfoot is elusive then hunting would not affect them. If they could withstand habitat loss like Bigfoot does, then habitat loss would not be a problem for them. Cross River Gorillas are not like bigfoot.
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Old 16th August 2013, 04:15 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by STRONG LIKE BEAR View Post
Chris how do you explain the existence of Bigfoot in modern Kentucky? Why do you think that is plausible? That picture of the "9 foot" "subject" .. there is nothing there. The problem isn't "the equipment" , the problem is that Bigfoot is not there..
I cannot explain the "how" or "why" they are here but they are. But I don't think anyone can give an honest answer to either question about any species on the planet.

The picture of the 9 foot subject is not proof I agree, but whether anything is there or not is a matter of opinion for everyone except the person that took the picture. Would you say the same about the family group video on youtube? The still on the top page of my site is taken from it.
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Old 16th August 2013, 04:38 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
Exactly. You've got photos on your website that you claim to be bigfoots but you won't repeat those claims in the company of people who will question them. That's not cool. If you want to have a website on which you write stories about seeing bigfoots, go for it. But passing off photos of branches and shadows as photos of those bigfoots puts you in another category.

As for historical chimpanzee photos, I guess you are claiming that you had set a trap for us weak-minded meanie-heads at the JREF, but I don't think you had any idea that was a chimp until I pointed it out.

Color me skeptical that you've come here with a mind open to the slightest possibility that you could be wrong about Bigfoot.
Most of the photos on my site were failed attempts to capture good images of what I saw during those encounters. None, are acceptable as evidence of proof of Bigfoot. What is there to debate?

I know you want me to say "Bigfoot is real because of this or that photo." So you can tear me apart for making a ridiculous claim. I don't accept the creatures as proven to exist by a photo because neither does the scientific community. My best effort to date is the family group video but that's still not proof.

As far as the Chimpanzee photo. No I did not set a trap for anyone. In my experience I would guess it was likely someone of a skeptical nature that made that photo available on WIKI for whatever reason.

My point was and is that like Greg Long's book, many make the mistake of accepting something as fact without checking it out for themselves. That's not investigation and can get one into trouble. If you checked out that photo on your own accord and suspicions, my hat is off to you because you truly posses the "show me" aspects of a true investigator. Even if it took a hint to get you started (and only you would know this), then you still followed thru to investigate a suspicion and that's still a credit to your record IMO. We don't have to agree whether or not Bigfoot is real. We do need to agree on the method used to determine them as being real or not though.
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Old 16th August 2013, 04:42 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Would you say the same about the family group video on youtube? The still on the top page of my site is taken from it.
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I AGREE


This?

Yes, I would say the same thing. I don't see a Bigfoot there Chris.. again.. why would you think that you are encountering Bigfoots in modern Kentucky? What makes that a plausible explanation for you?

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I AGREE


At about 3:13 is where you start to describe a Bigfoot shelter you guys found... why? That is the least likely explanation.
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Old 16th August 2013, 04:50 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
Using the cross river gorilla as an example that animals can stay elusive is frowned upon, yet something as genetically different from Bigfoot like a wolverine is used as an example that animals can't stay hidden?
Wolverines are rare and yet they are found anyway, photographed anyway, and found dead anyway, and they are small and hide easily.

An 800 pound 9 foot tall furry biped should be just a little easier to find, don't you think?

We can also see the signs left behind by a wolverine, even when we can't find him. We can tell where he's been, what he's been doing, what he's been eating, where he's been living, etc.

800 pound 9 foot tall biped? No verified sign of such a thing anywhere, ever. A few dubious footprints if you want to accept them. One very dubious movie shot in 1967 if you want to accept it. Numerous hoaxes and copious amounts of garbage "evidence".
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 16th August 2013, 04:54 AM   #50
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And now we see a claim that these giant furry people are roaming around Kentucky undetected.

It boggles the mind.

Let's substitute some gorillas for bigfoot.

If gorillas were living in Kentucky, would they be undetected?
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 16th August 2013, 04:56 AM   #51
ChrisBFRPKY
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Originally Posted by STRONG LIKE BEAR View Post
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I AGREE


This?

Yes, I would say the same thing. I don't see a Bigfoot there Chris.. again.. why would you think that you are encountering Bigfoots in modern Kentucky? What makes that a plausible explanation for you?

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I AGREE


At about 3:13 is where you start to describe a Bigfoot shelter you guys found... why? That is the least likely explanation.
So do you see branches or a rock, or something living and moving?

As far as a structure discussion at 3:13 of the 2nd video, the area is not frequented by humans (other than our treks), the creatures have been witnessed there and within the structures, the structures begin small and increase in size with some additions such as logs that are too heavy to have been placed on the hillside by humans. There are also no tool marks on the materials used (no evidence of a saw or chainsaw being used)
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Old 16th August 2013, 05:08 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by leisureclass View Post
I'm sorry, but when were you at Alamogordo? I ask because your bio page at http://www.bfrpky.com/Chris.html makes absolutely no mention of you working at any primate research facility.
My bio is brief. And your point is what? It should list everything I've ever done?
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Old 16th August 2013, 05:16 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
So do you see branches or a rock, or something living and moving?
I see 15 seconds of (poor) video of some woods.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY
As far as a structure discussion at 3:13 of the 2nd video, the area is not frequented by humans (other than our treks), the creatures have been witnessed there and within the structures, the structures begin small and increase in size with some additions such as logs that are too heavy to have been placed on the hillside by humans. There are also no tool marks on the materials used (no evidence of a saw or chainsaw being used)
Ok, but Bigfoot doesn't exist in Kentucky.. or anywhere in North America. So what makes you think that you are seeing Bigfoot? Certainly there are better explanations for what you are encountering. They could include anything from homeless people to hallucination on your part.
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Old 16th August 2013, 05:21 AM   #54
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Try the slowed down version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2gYk7StLfg
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Old 16th August 2013, 05:39 AM   #55
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Sorry but I don't see anything in your videos but scenery.
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Old 16th August 2013, 05:46 AM   #56
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Scenery like what? Trees? Rocks? "Scenery" is a broad description, can you elaborate? What is your take on the dark object center screen?
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Old 16th August 2013, 05:48 AM   #57
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Chris, are you saying you see movement in the slo mo video? I watched it twice and I am unable to detect any sign of movement in the entire 1:57. How far away were you from the subject and why not move toward it?
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Old 16th August 2013, 05:52 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
And now we see a claim that these giant furry people are roaming around Kentucky undetected.

It boggles the mind.

Let's substitute some gorillas for bigfoot.

If gorillas were living in Kentucky, would they be undetected?
Since the same methodology was used from Gorilla studies to locate the home range of the Bigfoot creatures, I'd have to say it is likely gorillas would have been detected as well if they too existed in KY. But for what is known, Bigfoot may simply be a different species of Gorilla.
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Old 16th August 2013, 05:54 AM   #59
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Yes, I see rocks and trees. The dark object looks like a dark, stationary object. Perhaps a burnt tree stump, but it's impossible to tell for certain given the low Res. I do not detect movement at all. If there was movement after all, I would have to guess black bear given the general shape and colour of the blob in question?
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Old 16th August 2013, 06:06 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by mustbeso View Post
Chris, are you saying you see movement in the slo mo video? I watched it twice and I am unable to detect any sign of movement in the entire 1:57. How far away were you from the subject and why not move toward it?
Yes I see movement, I'm not alone in that. A close study is required to reveal movement of the large subject and a close study of his right shoulder, facing the camera, is needed to view movement of the individual behind him. It helps if you're looking for a "back rub" type movement.

We were approx 115 to 120 yards away. Persons present were myself, another researcher and his son. After recording the video, the best thing to do was to end the encounter. Any movement toward the creatures would have provoked a response. Since I didn't know what response they'd have and my friend's son was present, even though I was armed, I think we did the best thing.

As a matter of record, I wouldn't suggest you walk up on a wild Gorilla either. After studying methods used by Gorilla researchers, I modeled my observation methods very similar to theirs.
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Old 16th August 2013, 06:19 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by dmaker View Post
Yes, I see rocks and trees. The dark object looks like a dark, stationary object. Perhaps a burnt tree stump, but it's impossible to tell for certain given the low Res. I do not detect movement at all. If there was movement after all, I would have to guess black bear given the general shape and colour of the blob in question?
Thank you for your honest interpretation. So to recap, the dark object looks stationary like a burnt tree stump, you didn't see any movement and if you had it could likely be video of a black bear. But it's impossible to determine given the low res anyway. Well said.

The kindest thing possible is for me to admit the video is inconclusive due to the quality. But I do think it is worthy of study because to some, that bear is getting a back rub.
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Old 16th August 2013, 06:33 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Most of the photos on my site were failed attempts to capture good images of what I saw during those encounters. None, are acceptable as evidence of proof of Bigfoot.
So why post them and claim that they are? When I see some cool bird but fail to obtain a photo of it I don't post my failed photos.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
As far as the Chimpanzee photo. . . . In my experience I would guess it was likely someone of a skeptical nature that made that photo available on WIKI for whatever reason.
You think it was intentionally mislabeled?

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
If you checked out that photo on your own accord and suspicions, . . .
I didn't have any suspicions about the photo. I assumed that when I clicked on the link I'd see a cool, old-timey, gory hunting photo depicting a gorilla. It took about 2 or 3 seconds for me to realize that it was actually a chimp in the photo, but I doubt I would've noticed had I not clicked the photo link to examine a larger version.

I know you think you've caught a bunch of skeptics failing to be skeptical, but closer to reality is that, using information you obtained from me, you observed a classic phenomenon in human perception. It's nothing more than a "Paris in the the spring" moment and you're trying to cast it as some great failing of the JREF.
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Old 16th August 2013, 06:36 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
<snip>
As far as a structure discussion at 3:13 of the 2nd video, the area is not frequented by humans (other than our treks),
I just love this part!!!

Chris, how do you know others don't go there?
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Old 16th August 2013, 06:44 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Any movement toward the creatures would have provoked a response.
1) Provoke it! Bigfoots won't get violent with humans because they know that once they did the humans would bring the pain with their fire sticks.

2) Why not circle around and slowly advance on their position until the bigfoots peacefully moved off? Then you could walk to where they were hanging out, collect what must have been several pounds of steaming squatch poop right there, and be THE GUY who collected the material from which the DNA was obtained to solve this squatchy mystery forever.
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Old 16th August 2013, 06:51 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Try the slowed down version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2gYk7StLfg
The spooky new age music really helped me focus on the black blotch in your video. Please, pretty please with sugar on top, won't you take this discussion to the appropriate topic? This has nothing to do with the Patterson Gimlin film. Thanks.
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Old 16th August 2013, 06:58 AM   #66
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I'v been sleeping on a futon in a cabin in the upper Bruce Peninsula all week. A Bigfoot back rub sounds good right about now.
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Old 16th August 2013, 07:05 AM   #67
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For those that couldn't view Chris' video, here is a still of "a family of primates doing primate-type things." I have circled the primates in red.
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File Type: jpg primates.jpg (37.2 KB, 30 views)
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Old 16th August 2013, 07:05 AM   #68
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Can't see any movement.
Did it ever occur to you that you should get closer?

So what if it attacks you, humans have been beating other animals at the killing game for million years. You think an animal is going to attack four people in the woods, that might have sidearms? Bigfoot knows about sidearms, and wouldn't attack people if they were packing heat.
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Old 16th August 2013, 07:46 AM   #69
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Funny, when I saw the pic I thought, "Wow, that's a chimp", remembered the De Loys ape stuff and moved on... Someone messes something in the internet... Great news.

Aniway, please, those blob pics are not PGF. Bigfoot follies or latest bigfoot evidence are the right places for it.
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Old 16th August 2013, 07:57 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by GT/CS View Post
I just love this part!!!

Chris, how do you know others don't go there?
They ones he met there told him so.
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Old 16th August 2013, 07:58 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Yes I see movement, I'm not alone in that. A close study is required to reveal movement of the large subject and a close study of his right shoulder, facing the camera, is needed to view movement of the individual behind him. It helps if you're looking for a "back rub" type movement.

We were approx 115 to 120 yards away. Persons present were myself, another researcher and his son. After recording the video, the best thing to do was to end the encounter. Any movement toward the creatures would have provoked a response. Since I didn't know what response they'd have and my friend's son was present, even though I was armed, I think we did the best thing.

As a matter of record, I wouldn't suggest you walk up on a wild Gorilla either. After studying methods used by Gorilla researchers, I modeled my observation methods very similar to theirs.
Classic footer behavior, see figfoot, flee bigfoot.
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Old 16th August 2013, 08:15 AM   #72
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Chris, it's been asked upthread but not answered I think. Could you please describe your time spent studying primates in the research centre?
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Old 16th August 2013, 08:56 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
For those that couldn't view Chris' video, here is a still of "a family of primates doing primate-type things." I have circled the primates in red.
Very nice capture but a little misdirecting though. The better still cap is here and needs no circles of red.

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Old 16th August 2013, 08:58 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Yes I see movement, I'm not alone in that. A close study is required to reveal movement of the large subject and a close study of his right shoulder, facing the camera, is needed to view movement of the individual behind him. It helps if you're looking for a "back rub" type movement.

We were approx 115 to 120 yards away. Persons present were myself, another researcher and his son. After recording the video, the best thing to do was to end the encounter. Any movement toward the creatures would have provoked a response. Since I didn't know what response they'd have and my friend's son was present, even though I was armed, I think we did the best thing.

As a matter of record, I wouldn't suggest you walk up on a wild Gorilla either. After studying methods used by Gorilla researchers, I modeled my observation methods very similar to theirs.

I think this research method is closer to Roger Patterson's than Gorilla researchers. After searching for years, he finally found a Bigfoot and then never returned to the area again. "Hmmm... shall I go back to Bluff Creek where I know there are Bigfeet. Nah, I'll head to Thailand." You took a blurry video from 200 yards away and then turned and left.

For comparison, here's an example of the kinds of photographs real Gorilla researchers are able to provide via their methods.

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Old 16th August 2013, 09:11 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
Classic footer behavior, see figfoot, flee bigfoot.
Next time you're at the zoo, hop the fence and make a run directly at a silver back male gorilla. Let us know the results.
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Old 16th August 2013, 09:14 AM   #76
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I don't need to hop the fence to get a clear picture of the Gorilla at the zoo.
That has no relation to you standing 100 yards from your subject, and being afraid to walk 20 paces towards it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19IU5-btao8

Real animals let you know when you are too close.
This is an evolutionary response, resulting in less actual combat. If animals attacked everything that got too close, instead of signalling, then they would not be long for this world.
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Old 16th August 2013, 09:14 AM   #77
ChrisBFRPKY
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Originally Posted by dmaker View Post
Chris, it's been asked upthread but not answered I think. Could you please describe your time spent studying primates in the research centre?
Yes it was but some of my background details are personal and I won't share specific details on JREF.
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Old 16th August 2013, 09:16 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
I don't need to hop the fence to get a clear picture of the Gorilla at the zoo.
That has no relation to you standing 100 yards from your subject, and being afraid to walk 20 paces towards it.
Yep taking pics in some environments and situations is easy, some it's not.
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Old 16th August 2013, 09:19 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Next time you're at the zoo, hop the fence and make a run directly at a silver back male gorilla. Let us know the results.
No need. We know from the Patterson film that a Bigfoot will just mope away in complete disregard for the man running directly at it pointing a shiny metal object.
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Old 16th August 2013, 09:25 AM   #80
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BS.

Three weeks ago I was at the Amazon jungle with my wife and 7 years old kid. We've got lots of nice pictures from ellusive animals, including the nocturnal ones. And we went there during the end of the highwater season, when its harder to see animals. To make things more difficult, the moon was full.

Of especial interest were some very intelligent and rare animals - the red river dolphins. They were "habituated", like footers claim some bigfoots are too. There were seven or eight of them around us and I got tired of taking pictures and shooting underwater movies from them. High quality, no blobs. That's what should be happening if footers like you were right.

So, if you ever run in to a real animal, instead of a fantasy, try taking some pictures, OK? Its not that hard, unless there's nothing there, its just your imagination. Footers' failures to demonstrate bigfoots are real are not because bigfoots are fearsome but stealthy buggers or because skeptics are close-minded mean denialists.
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