[Merged] UK Utilities using magic instead of engineering/Water dowsing - Page 2

Rougarou · 28th November 2017, 10:51 PM

It has been about a week since the story I posted above happened, and I have not seen that almost everyday customer since. I wonder if I inadvertently offended a believer in dowsing. That would be a shame since I got along very well with the guy.

Armitage72 · 29th November 2017, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by Pixel42

Confirmation bias could well be the whole explanation of perceived accuracy rates higher than chance, but I think it's possible some of them may essentially be letting their unconscious mind make its best guess, based on past experience and all the data entering their senses (which will be much more than is being brought to the attention of their conscious awareness). That might give a hit rate which is genuinely better than chance.

There was a recent episode of NCIS in which a woman started hearing voices and having visions that contained accurate information about a pair of murders. The cast had various opinions about her "psychic" abilities (all but one of them were skeptical, thankfully). The forensic psychologist who recently joined the cast focused on the brain's ability to process information on a subconscious level, suspecting that the woman had witnessed something connected to the crimes without realizing it.

It turned out that

fishbob · 14th December 2017, 01:42 AM

Originally Posted by jakesteele

I've seen a guy dowse for an underground power cable and he was right on the money. Don't know what that means in the big picture, but I'm inclined to think that there may be something to it and don't reject it out of hand.

I watched a guy locate a water main that way.
He looked up the street at a fire hydrant, down the street to the next fire hydrant, then walked with his rods out until he was in line with the fire hydrants and told us that he had found the water main.

Yeah right.

quadraginta · 14th December 2017, 03:12 AM

Originally Posted by fishbob

I watched a guy locate a water main that way.
He looked up the street at a fire hydrant, down the street to the next fire hydrant, then walked with his rods out until he was in line with the fire hydrants and told us that he had found the water main.

Yeah right.

Under most circumstances as described, if he was perfectly in line with those fire hydrants he would actually be about four feet or so ... minimum ... to one side of the water main, since fire hydrants are generally offset at least that far from the main they are connected to. It could easily be farther, but it almost certainly would not be over the main.

Not all that accurate even with the clues he used.

LTC8K6 · 16th December 2017, 01:01 PM

I suspect that the dowsing community would consider "within 4 feet" to be very accurate for something big underground.

quadraginta · 16th December 2017, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

I suspect that the dowsing community would consider "within 4 feet" to be very accurate for something big underground.

Like I said, that's a minimum.

The actual water main itself could just as easily be in the middle of the street. Or even on the other side of it.

The one place that they almost certainly are not is over top of it. Lining up with the hydrants is the very best way to be in the wrong place.

Gilbert Syndrome · 19th December 2017, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by Greebo

Not sure if this is the right place for it (mods please move if needed) or not.
Ten out of twelve water companies in the UK (when I looked) are using divining rods to find leaks, more here.

FFS

As with most of the **** that goes on in the UK with regards to city councils being almost completely inept and unable to perform simple tasks and have them work for longer than a week, this doesn't surprise me.

I've had British Gas out about 5 times over the past month, and each time they've failed to fix the issue I was having with the boiler. If the last guy that came had sprinkled some magic dust on the boiler before going to work, I'd have at least have had a bit of a laugh while watching him hopelessly struggle to fix it.

Between striking bus companies, striking train companies, hopeless city council maintenance and useless gas companies, finding out that our water companies are doing this type of bollocks is practically water off a duck's back.

rjh01 · 19th December 2017, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome

<snip>

I've had British Gas out about 5 times over the past month, and each time they've failed to fix the issue I was having with the boiler. If the last guy that came had sprinkled some magic dust on the boiler before going to work, I'd have at least have had a bit of a laugh while watching him hopelessly struggle to fix it. <snip>

In Australia if something goes wrong with something that is on your side of the meter then you employ your own tradesperson to fix it and pay for it. This is true for gas, electricity and telephones. Gives us a lot of freedoms. Like we can buy a huge range of telephones. Both landline and mobile.

P.J. Denyer · 20th December 2017, 04:08 AM

Originally Posted by rjh01

In Australia if something goes wrong with something that is on your side of the meter then you employ your own tradesperson to fix it and pay for it. This is true for gas, electricity and telephones. Gives us a lot of freedoms. Like we can buy a huge range of telephones. Both landline and mobile.

It's the same over here, British Gas is the former nationalised energy company now privatised and would in this case be acting as a private contractor. The Bus, Train, Gas and Water companies aren't actually connected to the City Council that GS seems to be blaming.

Gilbert Syndrome · 20th December 2017, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer

It's the same over here, British Gas is the former nationalised energy company now privatised and would in this case be acting as a private contractor. The Bus, Train, Gas and Water companies aren't actually connected to the City Council that GS seems to be blaming.

I never said they were part of my local council, lol. I was highlighting the fact that, along with such local councils as my one, most of these companies are utter bollocks and cannot do their jobs accordingly despite the money they rake in year-round.

Pot-holes are endless, bins are lesser-spotted, and road-works are an ongoing issue. Likewise, the bus and train companies want more money for an increasingly awful service, prices remain on the up even when fuel costs are low, etc.

Same with British Gas, etc, big companies with absolutely woeful abilities to get a job done, which was my point re: not being exactly surprised over some daft sod using dowsing as a legit way to locate water.

P.J. Denyer · 20th December 2017, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome

I never said they were part of my local council, lol. I was highlighting the fact that, along with such local councils as my one, most of these companies are utter bollocks and cannot do their jobs accordingly despite the money they rake in year-round.

Pot-holes are endless, bins are lesser-spotted, and road-works are an ongoing issue. Likewise, the bus and train companies want more money for an increasingly awful service, prices remain on the up even when fuel costs are low, etc.

Same with British Gas, etc, big companies with absolutely woeful abilities to get a job done, which was my point re: not being exactly surprised over some daft sod using dowsing as a legit way to locate water.

My apologies for misunderstanding, but rjh01 apparently read it that way as well.

Gilbert Syndrome · 27th December 2017, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer

My apologies for misunderstanding, but rjh01 apparently read it that way as well.

No worries, I was probably half-asleep while posting and didn't make myself clear enough, lol.

28th November 2017, 10:51 PM	#41
Rougarou Thinker Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 176	It has been about a week since the story I posted above happened, and I have not seen that almost everyday customer since. I wonder if I inadvertently offended a believer in dowsing. That would be a shame since I got along very well with the guy.
Rougarou Thinker Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 176

29th November 2017, 09:08 AM	#42
Armitage72 Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 2,436	Originally Posted by Pixel42 Confirmation bias could well be the whole explanation of perceived accuracy rates higher than chance, but I think it's possible some of them may essentially be letting their unconscious mind make its best guess, based on past experience and all the data entering their senses (which will be much more than is being brought to the attention of their conscious awareness). That might give a hit rate which is genuinely better than chance. There was a recent episode of NCIS in which a woman started hearing voices and having visions that contained accurate information about a pair of murders. The cast had various opinions about her "psychic" abilities (all but one of them were skeptical, thankfully). The forensic psychologist who recently joined the cast focused on the brain's ability to process information on a subconscious level, suspecting that the woman had witnessed something connected to the crimes without realizing it. It turned out that the woman was the murderer. She suffered a psychotic break after the death of her child, murdered the two people she blamed for it, and then forgot that she did it. The voices and visions were her memories coming back.

14th December 2017, 01:42 AM	#43
fishbob Seasonally Disaffected Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chilly Undieville Posts: 6,991	Originally Posted by jakesteele I've seen a guy dowse for an underground power cable and he was right on the money. Don't know what that means in the big picture, but I'm inclined to think that there may be something to it and don't reject it out of hand. I watched a guy locate a water main that way. He looked up the street at a fire hydrant, down the street to the next fire hydrant, then walked with his rods out until he was in line with the fire hydrants and told us that he had found the water main. Yeah right.
	__________________ "When you believe in things you don't understand, then you suffer . . . " - Stevie Wonder. "It looks like the saddest, most crookedest candy corn in an otherwise normal bag of candy corns." Stormy Daniels I hate bigots.

14th December 2017, 03:12 AM	#44
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility Posts: 22,803	Originally Posted by fishbob I watched a guy locate a water main that way. He looked up the street at a fire hydrant, down the street to the next fire hydrant, then walked with his rods out until he was in line with the fire hydrants and told us that he had found the water main. Yeah right. Under most circumstances as described, if he was perfectly in line with those fire hydrants he would actually be about four feet or so ... minimum ... to one side of the water main, since fire hydrants are generally offset at least that far from the main they are connected to. It could easily be farther, but it almost certainly would not be over the main. Not all that accurate even with the clues he used.
	__________________ "It never does just what I want, but only what I tell it." "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

16th December 2017, 01:01 PM	#45
LTC8K6 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail Posts: 20,703	I suspect that the dowsing community would consider "within 4 feet" to be very accurate for something big underground.
	__________________ What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

16th December 2017, 01:10 PM	#46
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility Posts: 22,803	Originally Posted by LTC8K6 I suspect that the dowsing community would consider "within 4 feet" to be very accurate for something big underground. Like I said, that's a minimum. The actual water main itself could just as easily be in the middle of the street. Or even on the other side of it. The one place that they almost certainly are not is over top of it. Lining up with the hydrants is the very best way to be in the wrong place.
	__________________ "It never does just what I want, but only what I tell it." "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." Last edited by quadraginta; 16th December 2017 at 01:14 PM.

19th December 2017, 09:06 AM	#47
Gilbert Syndrome Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Liverpool, UK Posts: 5,716	Originally Posted by Greebo Not sure if this is the right place for it (mods please move if needed) or not. Ten out of twelve water companies in the UK (when I looked) are using divining rods to find leaks, more here. FFS As with most of the **** that goes on in the UK with regards to city councils being almost completely inept and unable to perform simple tasks and have them work for longer than a week, this doesn't surprise me. I've had British Gas out about 5 times over the past month, and each time they've failed to fix the issue I was having with the boiler. If the last guy that came had sprinkled some magic dust on the boiler before going to work, I'd have at least have had a bit of a laugh while watching him hopelessly struggle to fix it. Between striking bus companies, striking train companies, hopeless city council maintenance and useless gas companies, finding out that our water companies are doing this type of bollocks is practically water off a duck's back.
	__________________ Generic proclamation of positivity: Scouse saying - Go 'ed, is right, nice one, boss, well in, sound, belter, made up. Usage: 'Go 'ed, lad, get us an ale in, nice one.' Last edited by Gilbert Syndrome; 19th December 2017 at 09:07 AM.

19th December 2017, 11:03 PM	#48
rjh01 Gentleman of leisure Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Flying around in the sky Posts: 24,209	Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome <snip> I've had British Gas out about 5 times over the past month, and each time they've failed to fix the issue I was having with the boiler. If the last guy that came had sprinkled some magic dust on the boiler before going to work, I'd have at least have had a bit of a laugh while watching him hopelessly struggle to fix it. <snip> In Australia if something goes wrong with something that is on your side of the meter then you employ your own tradesperson to fix it and pay for it. This is true for gas, electricity and telephones. Gives us a lot of freedoms. Like we can buy a huge range of telephones. Both landline and mobile.
	__________________ This signature is for rent.

20th December 2017, 04:08 AM	#49
P.J. Denyer Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,980	Originally Posted by rjh01 In Australia if something goes wrong with something that is on your side of the meter then you employ your own tradesperson to fix it and pay for it. This is true for gas, electricity and telephones. Gives us a lot of freedoms. Like we can buy a huge range of telephones. Both landline and mobile. It's the same over here, British Gas is the former nationalised energy company now privatised and would in this case be acting as a private contractor. The Bus, Train, Gas and Water companies aren't actually connected to the City Council that GS seems to be blaming.
P.J. Denyer Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,980	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills

20th December 2017, 04:04 PM	#50
Gilbert Syndrome Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Liverpool, UK Posts: 5,716	Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer It's the same over here, British Gas is the former nationalised energy company now privatised and would in this case be acting as a private contractor. The Bus, Train, Gas and Water companies aren't actually connected to the City Council that GS seems to be blaming. I never said they were part of my local council, lol. I was highlighting the fact that, along with such local councils as my one, most of these companies are utter bollocks and cannot do their jobs accordingly despite the money they rake in year-round. Pot-holes are endless, bins are lesser-spotted, and road-works are an ongoing issue. Likewise, the bus and train companies want more money for an increasingly awful service, prices remain on the up even when fuel costs are low, etc. Same with British Gas, etc, big companies with absolutely woeful abilities to get a job done, which was my point re: not being exactly surprised over some daft sod using dowsing as a legit way to locate water.
	__________________ Generic proclamation of positivity: Scouse saying - Go 'ed, is right, nice one, boss, well in, sound, belter, made up. Usage: 'Go 'ed, lad, get us an ale in, nice one.'

20th December 2017, 04:49 PM	#51
P.J. Denyer Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,980	Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome I never said they were part of my local council, lol. I was highlighting the fact that, along with such local councils as my one, most of these companies are utter bollocks and cannot do their jobs accordingly despite the money they rake in year-round. Pot-holes are endless, bins are lesser-spotted, and road-works are an ongoing issue. Likewise, the bus and train companies want more money for an increasingly awful service, prices remain on the up even when fuel costs are low, etc. Same with British Gas, etc, big companies with absolutely woeful abilities to get a job done, which was my point re: not being exactly surprised over some daft sod using dowsing as a legit way to locate water. My apologies for misunderstanding, but rjh01 apparently read it that way as well.
P.J. Denyer Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,980	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills

27th December 2017, 11:38 AM	#52
Gilbert Syndrome Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Liverpool, UK Posts: 5,716	Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer My apologies for misunderstanding, but rjh01 apparently read it that way as well. No worries, I was probably half-asleep while posting and didn't make myself clear enough, lol.
	__________________ Generic proclamation of positivity: Scouse saying - Go 'ed, is right, nice one, boss, well in, sound, belter, made up. Usage: 'Go 'ed, lad, get us an ale in, nice one.'