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#1 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,370
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Santa Claus
My skeptic parenting has paid off. My son has thought about the whole Santa thing and, based on the fact that I've told him magic isn't real, he has realized that there can't really be flying reindeer - and so Santa must have a jet pack.
Baby steps. |
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#2 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 12,359
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#3 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 7,720
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► 9/11 was a terrorist attack by Islamic extremists; 12 Apollo astronauts really did walk on the Moon; JFK was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald,who acted alone. ► Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed. - Jay Utah ► Heisenberg's Law - The weirdness of the Universe is inversely proportional to the scale at which you observe it, or not. |
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#4 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South Africa
Posts: 3,406
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This signature is intended to imitate people. |
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#5 |
In the Peanut Gallery
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 41,524
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Not another annual "Santa is an evil influence on kids, let's ban this unskeptical custom" thread.
![]() We did the Santa thing for many years for our seven kids and it hasn't harmed the skeptical and athiest bunch. We are doing the same with our grandkids. |
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A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill |
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#6 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,096
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#7 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 80,856
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Well he has evidence that part of the story you've told him is true - he gets presents - so he knows that any theory about Santa Claus has to account for that. I'd say that's a big conceptual leap.
P. S. Now you can really screw him up, give him no presents on Christmas Day and tell him Santa Claus doesn't give presents to those that doubt him! |
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#8 |
In the Peanut Gallery
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 41,524
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![]() Indeed, combined with the fact that my middle name is Patrick, my surname is of bog Irish Galway derivation, I was an (unmolested) altar boy, my father was a Marist Brother for a brief period and uncles and aunts were priests and nuns. Despite my athiest commitment I still attend religious weddings and funerals. And I love Christmas and it's associated rituals. Long live Santa. |
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A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill |
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#9 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 80,856
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You didn't read the opening post did you? His parents are obviously telling him the story of Santa Claus but the kid is starting to think for himself and saying "something isn't quite right with this" and attempting to work it out for himself.
Isn't part of the joy of being a parent experiencing kids growing up and becoming their own person? |
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#10 |
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 37,728
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My kid (see avatar) decided to give up the game. He's pretty much an avowed atheist at nine and has been for a while. He confessed that he really figured it out about three years ago, but was playing along for the collection of loot.
It's pretty clear here when they're in school. Even the "international" (read Euro/American furriners or "farang") schools are majority Thai. Some are kids of Thai couples who have lived overseas, some just well-off Thais who want an international education for their kids, and most of 'em are from mixed western/Thai couples. BUT, still there are kids from the sub-continent and Thailand who make no reference to or celebrate Christmas. Christmas Day is not a holiday here, other than for the schools. So he worked it out on his own when he had cousins arriving over the holiday period and none of them were reporting on what they got from Santa. |
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Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable. |
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#11 |
In the Peanut Gallery
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 41,524
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I did read the OP. Me and my wife wanted to entrench the Santa ritual, and took pride in continuing it. Kids work it out themselves obviously, but in my experience they loved the ritual. "Lying" to them that Santa was real was not a bad thing in my view. I took more joy in the kids going along with the myth.
What pisses me off is that some hold that this is an unskepitical position to take. I know that this is not what the OP is doing, but it has been done in the past. |
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A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill |
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#12 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,051
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I have never directly said to my kids that Santa Claus doesn't exist. Though we always bought all the presents when the kids were with us in the shop. So the inevitable happened last Christmas, as my 7-year-old son said with enthusiasm and intended humour: Let's wrap these in present paper -- and then we will pretend that Santa Claus brought them!
There was something profoundly hilarious in that moment. |
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#13 |
Schrödinger's cat
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 10,221
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I don't think anyone is saying that, are they?
Personally I think the Santa Claus story is an excellent way of training kids to be sceptical. They work it out eventually, and can then apply the same reasoning process to other myths. I always say I stopped believing in god shortly after I stopped believing in Father Christmas, and for exactly the same reason. |
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"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett |
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#14 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,530
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"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion |
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#15 |
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 37,728
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Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable. |
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#16 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,900
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It's only a matter of time before the idea of one man traveling around the world in a single night leads to the logical realization that Santa uses regional subcontractors. The real reason that different parts of the world call Santa by different names, depict him in different outfits, and have him accompanied by different assistants is that Santa uses a large number of local individuals to distribute gifts in his name while using variants of his image. Then there are also the associated gift-givers who choose not to use the Santa name and image, like Befana.
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#17 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 80,856
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I wish I knew how to quit you |
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#18 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,370
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WHOA WHOA WHOA. Hang on. Nobody is saying that Santa isn't real. I just said that my son figured out that the reindeer can't fly. Man, you don't need to jump to conclusions like that.
I hope not! I wasn't trying to start anything like that, I just thought it was a funny bit of skeptical thinking to share. Yeah, he's clearly thinking about it a lot. I think he's also trying to figure out the delivery method - does Santa have to go into each house? Can he, like, throw the presents? My wife might literally kill me. My realization about Santa was very much like my eventual switch to atheism. I questioned it and pretty quickly realized something was fishy, but I gave it another year before admitting it to myself (not for fear of not getting presents, just because I didn't quite feel ready to say I didn't believe in Santa). I don't really understand how any kids don't already know - every Christmas special is all "Nobody believes in me!" "Everyone knows Santa is fake!" etc. and while obviously they're wrong in the world of the movie I still feel like that would start to put the idea in my head. Gosh, the kids in that movie make fun of the other kid because he believes in Santa. Is that... something I shouldn't believe in? Huh... |
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#19 |
Mafia Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 18,530
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Founder of the group "The Truth about Anjezë Gonxhe Bojaxhiu aka Mother Teresa" "I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people." - "Saint" Teresa, the lying thieving Albanian dwarf |
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#20 |
Muse
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 788
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#21 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 12,359
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Is he old enough to use Wikipedia?
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#22 |
Hyperthetical
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 13,480
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A zømbie once bit my sister... |
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#23 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,370
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#24 |
Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 29,161
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"Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right? |
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#25 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,370
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#26 |
Pedantic Bore
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Abandon All Hope
Posts: 6,783
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That life-changing moment when you go from "Ho! Ho! Ho!" to "Oh?! Oh! Oh..."
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Do not weep. Do not wax indignant. Understand. - Baruch Spinoza You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. - Harlan Ellison |
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#27 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 12,359
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#28 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,370
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His specific personality. He won't research anything we don't force him to. He's smart, he thinks about stuff and how it works, he has a good head for strategy... but really he wants to be bouncing on the trampoline, kicking something over the fence, or playing video games. He'll ponder stuff, but he won't look it up.
EDIT: Note that we got him when he was four, and a decent amount of this was already baked in. Would he look stuff up more if we had had him since infancy? Maybe, maybe not. But if your 2yo is your biological kid the apple may fall closer to the tree. Or... not. Kids, man. |
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#29 |
Muse
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 637
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Santa's middle name is "Amazon", and he drops gifts off on our front porch periodically throughout the holiday season. They end up under the tree "the night before Christmas".
My kids all play along. We leave letters from Santa, they leave cookies and milk for Santa. It's all in good fun. They drop hints that they know what's up, but the older ones have been good about not ruining the fun for their younger siblings. |
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#30 | |||
Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 29,161
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Well, the pieces are all there.
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"Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right? |
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#31 | |||
Master Poster
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Blackstone River Valley, MA
Posts: 2,135
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At some point he'll likely appreciate this James Randi classic:
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#32 |
Mafia Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 18,530
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__________________
Founder of the group "The Truth about Anjezë Gonxhe Bojaxhiu aka Mother Teresa" "I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people." - "Saint" Teresa, the lying thieving Albanian dwarf |
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#33 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Cymru
Posts: 24,120
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Amazingly enough, just before Christmas, it's been found that a relic of Saint Nicholas is approximately the right age......
Quote:
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#34 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,096
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#35 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 15,842
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In Germany, children have to contend with three mythical gift-bringers: Nikolaus, Weihnachtsmann (literally: christmas-man; Father Christmas), and the Christkind (Christ child). I never grasped the latter when I was a child myself, I thought of the Christkind as a girl-angel - it never occurred to me that the baby boy Jesus is the christ child! The other two are tricky to be separated: Nikolaus of course has his own day, today, December 6th. But I always believed he made a return on Holy Night, I thought he and Weihnachtsmann are the same. Then, on Sunday, I accompanied a friend and her two children to the local christmas market, where a St. Nik - or Weihnachtmann? - was handing gift bags to children. My friend explained that she wants her kids to differentiate between St. Nikolaus, a bishop with mitra, white-and-gold gown and bishop's staff, and the Weihnachtsmann in red and white coat and fur with reindeer, who is a commercial, American invention by coca-cola. And I agreed with her. But yesterday, I remembered that Americans call the Weihnachtsmann "Santa Claus", with is none other than Saint Nicolas! They are the same after all!
I am glad I don't believe in any of the three, or else I would worry I might get a few extra days in limbo for thinking wrong about them! |
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) |
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#36 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,096
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#37 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 80,856
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Nonsense, it was the Hogfather!
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#38 |
imperfecto del subjuntivo
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: stranded at Buenos Aires, a city that, like NYC or Paris, has so little to offer...
Posts: 8,405
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Santa IS real!
There's a lot of evidence: millions of presents and knick knacks bellow Xmas trees and in sockets, all appearing almost at the same time. Use Occam's razor: what is more reasonable? an amazingly nice person doing the same kind of good deed all around the world using the same modus operandi or a humongous bunch of heterogeneous people who wouldn't know each other but conspire to provide a false "Santa"? C'mon! Besides, Santa is a giver and not a taker. It's the religion attached to Xmas the one that takes concrete things a gives just promises. Those faith mongers are the ones who are indubitably wrong. |
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Horrible dipsomaniacs and other addicts, be gone and get treated, or covfefe your soul!These fora are full of scientists and specialists. Most of them turn back to pumpkins the second they log out. I got tired of the actual schizophrenics that are taking hold part of the forum and decided to do something about it. |
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#39 |
This title intentionally left blank
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,126
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Pssht, it's not important to convince your kids that Santa exists. For maximum control, you need to convince them that KRAMPUS exists.
I also used to leave my nephew a present from "Willy the One-eyed Elf" every year. He finally got the joke when he was about fifteen and I must say, the prank was well worth the wait. |
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#40 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 16,110
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Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant. |
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