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Tags Cliven Bundy , militia incidents , Nevada incidents

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Old 16th April 2014, 03:59 AM   #241
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Old 16th April 2014, 04:51 AM   #242
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The Real Nevada Story the Media Won’t Show You (Video)

http://toprightnews.com/?p=2479

"Nevada Standoff: April 12th 2014 – A historic day when the people rose up and forced tyrants to retreat."
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Old 16th April 2014, 05:33 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
The Real Nevada Story the Media Won’t Show You (Video)

http://toprightnews.com/?p=2479

"Nevada Standoff: April 12th 2014 – A historic day when the people rose up and forced tyrants to retreat."
I wouldn't open that even if I'd read the entire rest of the internet.
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Old 16th April 2014, 05:41 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by geni View Post
Its an entirely rational military strategy given the situation they are in. The catch is that its one that modern governments are increasingly used to dealing with and have developed strategies to counter.
Funny how you never see actual freedom fighters use this "rational strategy."
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Old 16th April 2014, 05:59 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by Biscuit View Post
Funny how you never see actual freedom fighters use this "rational strategy."
Do the pro democracy protests in Iran count? They certainly got a lot of mileage out of it. And it depends an a reasonably free media.
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Old 16th April 2014, 06:01 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Do the pro democracy protests in Iran count? They certainly got a lot of mileage out of it. And it depends an a reasonably free media.
Not enough - the inmates still run the asylum.
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Old 16th April 2014, 06:09 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
I wouldn't open that even if I'd read the entire rest of the internet.
At the top of the linked article, the photo of the heroes on horseback had no EXIF data or GPS data. Bummer, I see that it's from photoshop and was hoping that they stole it from a Western movie or something.

ETA - at one point in the video, a patriotic AmericanTM yells at the authorities "go back to China."

Last edited by carlitos; 16th April 2014 at 06:11 AM.
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Old 16th April 2014, 07:10 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
The Real Nevada Story the Media Won’t Show You (Video)

http://toprightnews.com/?p=2479

"Nevada Standoff: April 12th 2014 – A historic day when the people rose up and forced tyrants to retreat."
The article states that a pregnant woman was thrown to the ground. That never happened. An older woman was thrown to the ground. The pregnant woman yelled and screamed at the Rangers, while ignoring the Ranger's orders to stop advancing. While she was doing this, another woman was walking next to her, pointing at her, and screaming that the woman was pregnant, as if that somehow made her behavior more right.

Protesters never threatened violence - semantics. They did threaten to use second amendment solutions to the problem and to get physical, and to do whatever it takes. They aimed rifles at LE Rangers who were carrying out court orders. They stated that they were at war, that it might be necessary to spill blood, that they would like to see the BLM rangers hung.

The babbled on and on about the Constitution,while ignoring that the laws they don't like were challenged in the courts. Article III of the Constitution specifies that the courts are to be used to settle disputes over what is or is not constitutional. That constitutionally mandated process determined that those laws are, in fact, constitutional. The same Article III mandated courts and processes determined that Bundy was in violation of the law and that his cattle should be impounded.

The Feds were attempting to implement an Article III solution to the problem. The protesters apparently didn't read or just don't like Article III, so they claim second amendment. It does not work that way, you don't get to ignore the parts you don't like. If laws have been violated by the gov and you have no other alternative to protect life, the I suppose second amendment could come into play - that was not the case here, as the feds broke no laws.
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Old 16th April 2014, 08:07 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Is Bundy a FMOTL? I know he's acting like it in some ways, but I didn't know he'd been identified as such.
I withdraw my assertion. While he does follow a couple of FMOTL precepts and most of the FMOTL boards claim him as their own, I can find no evidence that he has ever embraced all or even most of the FMOTL philosophy. Nor has he ever professed himself to be FMOTL.
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Old 16th April 2014, 08:24 AM   #250
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
The Real Nevada Story the Media Won’t Show You (Video)

http://toprightnews.com/?p=2479

"Nevada Standoff: April 12th 2014 – A historic day when the people rose up and forced tyrants to retreat."
Watching that makes me think it's punishment enough to have to live there. What a dreary wasteland. Where were the casinos?
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Old 16th April 2014, 09:50 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
At the top of the linked article, the photo of the heroes on horseback had no EXIF data or GPS data. Bummer, I see that it's from photoshop and was hoping that they stole it from a Western movie or something.

ETA - at one point in the video, a patriotic AmericanTM yells at the authorities "go back to China."
I think I saw the same photo in a post by one of my idiot FB friends (courtesy of some Tea Party cesspool) captioned: "Cowboys and Communists".
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Old 16th April 2014, 09:58 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
http://benswann.com/exclusive-source...on-bundy-home/

Sheriff Richard Mack of the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association has revealed... that he has received intelligence from multiple, credible sources inside the BLM and the Las Vegas Metro that there is “no question” that the federal government is planning a raid on the Bundy home and the homes of their children who live on the property. According to Mack, the so-called retreat was nothing more than theatrics. “It was a ploy to get people to back off, to get people out of the way. They weren’t expecting us to get this amount of people here. They were surprised by the numbers and so they wanted a way to get us out of here. This was a ploy to get us out of here and then they’re going after the Bundys.” Mack said that when he was at the Bundy ranch on Saturday there were an estimated 600 to 800 protesters present when federal agents were releasing the cattle."
Mack the Hack?

The guy that had "intelligence" on the PLA (Peoples Liberation Army) poised on the Mexican border preparing to invade the U.S.?

He's not a reliable source, he's a joke.
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Old 16th April 2014, 10:00 AM   #253
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Mack the Hack?

The guy that had "intelligence" on the PLA (Peoples Liberation Army) poised on the Mexican border preparing to invade the U.S.?

He's not a reliable source, he's a joke.
In politics, as in septic tanks, the biggest chunks repeatedly rise to the top.
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Old 16th April 2014, 10:06 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Do the pro democracy protests in Iran count? They certainly got a lot of mileage out of it. And it depends an a reasonably free media.
Is that what they did? I have no idea. I don't mean to derail you can PM if you want.

I suppose I should have said people with irrational arguments seem to use this rational tactic.

Now I am seeing this cartoon making the FB rounds.

As if the BLM was in charge of immigration enforcement, as if illegal immigration wasn't down, as if deportations weren't up. But hey when you trying to defend a man who steals and doesn't honor his own word then I guess non sequiturs are the soup de jour.
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Old 16th April 2014, 10:10 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by Biscuit View Post
Is that what they did? I have no idea. I don't mean to derail you can PM if you want.

I suppose I should have said people with irrational arguments seem to use this rational tactic.

Now I am seeing this cartoon making the FB rounds.

As if the BLM was in charge of immigration enforcement, as if illegal immigration wasn't down, as if deportations weren't up. But hey when you trying to defend a man who steals and doesn't honor his own word then I guess non sequiturs are the soup de jour.
I like how they put the Obama "O's" on the guns too, you know, because he actually had a hand in this.
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Old 16th April 2014, 10:19 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I like how they put the Obama "O's" on the guns too, you know, because he actually had a hand in this.
Bush Sr would have been the one to get this rolling but the evil "O" is clearly to blame.

I get so riled up by people defending this clown.

one more cartoon
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Old 16th April 2014, 10:37 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by Biscuit View Post
Is that what they did? I have no idea. I don't mean to derail you can PM if you want.

I suppose I should have said people with irrational arguments seem to use this rational tactic.

Now I am seeing this cartoon making the FB rounds.

As if the BLM was in charge of immigration enforcement, as if illegal immigration wasn't down, as if deportations weren't up. But hey when you trying to defend a man who steals and doesn't honor his own word then I guess non sequiturs are the soup de jour.
Specifically I don't know if it was intentional or not. But the photo of the woman being shot certainly had that effect. I know women were prominent in many other recent middle eastern protests.

I would focus more on that they are nuts looking for a violent confrontation than the specific tactics they use.
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Old 16th April 2014, 12:28 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by Biscuit View Post
Funny how you never see actual freedom fighters use this "rational strategy."
Please list some freedom fighters.
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Old 16th April 2014, 12:51 PM   #259
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I love the "federals grabbed 90% of Nevada" B.S.
The feds own so much of Nevada because no one wanted to homestead it. As for how the Feds got it, read the Treaty of Gudaluape Hidlago, 1848, which ceded what is now Nevada (and a good deal of the West) to the US.
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Old 16th April 2014, 01:03 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I love the "federals grabbed 90% of Nevada" B.S.
The feds own so much of Nevada because no one wanted to homestead it. As for how the Feds got it, read the Treaty of Gudaluape Hidlago, 1848, which ceded what is now Nevada (and a good deal of the West) to the US.
Let's not forget that in all of these statements of how much federal land there is, they all include the Indian Reservations as "Federal", which is technically correct, but probably misleading to many. Nevada, for its part also has some huge swaths of military and Department of Energy Lands, alongside the BLM, National Park, Wildlife Reserve, Forest Service, and Bureau of Reclamation Lands.

The Fed has a lot of land in Nevada (lots of lots, actually), but I don't think anyone actually wants to homestead Frenchman flat, and I am pretty sure it will be a cold day in heck before the feds give up Groom Lake or Yucca Mountain.
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Old 16th April 2014, 01:14 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Most disputes with the BLM are over the BLM grazing regs,which some ranchers consider to be too strict,but Cliven is just plain batcrap crazy with his refusal to pay the grazing fees.
If the BLM grazing regs are too strict, don't do business with the BLM.

Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I love the "federals grabbed 90% of Nevada" B.S.
The feds own so much of Nevada because no one wanted to homestead it. As for how the Feds got it, read the Treaty of Gudaluape Hidlago, 1848, which ceded what is now Nevada (and a good deal of the West) to the US.
That is one thing Arizona has going for it, tons of public land. I was horrified by my time in Texas. It professes to having such a "hunting" culture, but in reality it is just baiting on ranches.

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Old 16th April 2014, 01:35 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by geni View Post
Please list some freedom fighters.
As the term is obviously subjective perhaps a list of the use of this rational tactic and then we can discuss if "freedom fighter" applies to said group.

use of female human shields

Also I amended my first response to say that irrational people are the ones that seem to use this rational tactic.

I would not put the Bundy-ites in the category of rational or freedom fighter. The theft of natural resources is not a freedom and the use of guns to prevent lawful court orders from being carried out is not rational.
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Old 16th April 2014, 03:17 PM   #263
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I just discovered that I have a cattle trespass problem of my own.

ETA: Should I go directly to a Second Amendment solution and fill my freezer with beef?

Last edited by Kestrel; 16th April 2014 at 03:20 PM.
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Old 16th April 2014, 04:12 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
I just discovered that I have a cattle trespass problem of my own.

ETA: Should I go directly to a Second Amendment solution and fill my freezer with beef?
Make sure you say the words (hopefully recorded on a 911 call), "It was attacking. I feared for my life."
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Old 16th April 2014, 04:13 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by Biscuit View Post
Bush Sr would have been the one to get this rolling but the evil "O" is clearly to blame.

I get so riled up by people defending this clown.

one more cartoon
Some of the people defending him know he is an crackpot, but they will use any excuse to go after the Obama Administration.
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Old 16th April 2014, 04:15 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Make sure you say the words (hopefully recorded on a 911 call), "It was attacking. I feared for my life."
Isn't the phrase "It's coming right for us"?
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Old 16th April 2014, 06:19 PM   #267
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Lightbulb

Senator Rand Paul R-Ky. has stated: " the Federal Government shouldn’t violate the law, nor have 48 Federal agencies carrying weapons and having SWAT teams... the disputed land, which the Bundy family had leased from the county before a Federal takeover, should be returned to local control... the States and the individuals in the State should own these lands.”
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Old 16th April 2014, 07:15 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
Senator Rand Paul R-Ky. has stated: " the Federal Government shouldn’t violate the law, nor have 48 Federal agencies carrying weapons and having SWAT teams... the disputed land, which the Bundy family had leased from the county before a Federal takeover, should be returned to local control... the States and the individuals in the State should own these lands.”

I don't think there's anything in that quote that's correct.

ETA: He also said this:

Quote:
“I hope it’ll go through a court,” he said. (source)

It has. Rand Paul doesn't know a damn thing about this situation and is talking out of his ass.

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Old 16th April 2014, 07:22 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
.... the Bundy family had leased from the county before a Federal takeover, should be returned to local control... the States and the individuals in the State should own these lands.”
The Bundy family never leased it from the County - they tried to, but the county refused payment because the land was not under county control.

There was no federal takeover, unless you count the Mexican-American War. The land has always been federal, the county has never claimed control. You cannot be "return" control to something that controlled the thing the first place.
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Old 16th April 2014, 07:27 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
The Bundy family never leased it from the County - they tried to, but the county refused payment because the land was not under county control.

There was no federal takeover, unless you count the Mexican-American War. The land has always been federal, the county has never claimed control. You cannot be "return" control to something that controlled the thing the first place.
The tortoises probably have the best claim to prior use/ownership.
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Old 16th April 2014, 08:55 PM   #271
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I didn't realize that one could steal land from the Federal government, and get away with it!

I wonder if I could use the land that Bundy or his supporters have, and not pay for it. Would any kooks support me?
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Old 16th April 2014, 09:31 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
The tortoises probably have the best claim to prior use/ownership.
Them, and a the Moapa Paiute, who have a reservation not very far from Bunkerville. Several bands of Paiute have reservations in the area. They own a bunch of houses in my neighborhood as well.

I reckon Bundy would not be happy if they came and took his property back - good flat land next to a river would certainly have seen a bit of human use and habitation over the previous centuries, and they never really left.
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Old 16th April 2014, 10:41 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
Senator Rand Paul R-Ky. has stated: " the Federal Government shouldn’t violate the law, nor have 48 Federal agencies carrying weapons and having SWAT teams... the disputed land, which the Bundy family had leased from the county before a Federal takeover, should be returned to local control... the States and the individuals in the State should own these lands.”
Wrong thread. You want, "Right wing mega thread of mega nuttery.".
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Old 17th April 2014, 01:32 AM   #274
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"The BLM has been caught committing horrific animal atrocities against the cattle owned by rancher Cliven Bundy. (Warning: graphic photo)
Very sad to see the government killing animals like this ":

http://www.naturalnews.com/044746_an...ndy_Ranch.html


.
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Old 17th April 2014, 01:46 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
"The BLM has been caught committing horrific animal atrocities against the cattle owned by rancher Cliven Bundy. (Warning: graphic photo)
Very sad to see the government killing animals like this ":

http://www.naturalnews.com/044746_an...ndy_Ranch.html
These are the cows destined for the slaughterhouse, right?

One thing's for sure: life sucks if you are a cow in Nevada. It's a wonder they let people own any at all. Where's PETA in this? I bet they'd show up to help, some way or another.
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Old 17th April 2014, 03:13 AM   #276
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
I don't think there's anything in that quote that's correct.

ETA: He also said this:




It has. Rand Paul doesn't know a damn thing about this situation and is talking out of his ass.
But he told the truth and knows better than to let mere facts get in the way.
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Old 17th April 2014, 03:14 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
The Bundy family never leased it from the County - they tried to, but the county refused payment because the land was not under county control.

There was no federal takeover, unless you count the Mexican-American War. The land has always been federal, the county has never claimed control. You cannot be "return" control to something that controlled the thing the first place.
Sure he ment give it back to Mexico.
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Old 17th April 2014, 03:38 AM   #278
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
The tortoises probably have the best claim to prior use/ownership.
Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if there were some still living who were old enough to remember the war with Mexico, though I suppose that might then call into question their immigration status.
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Old 17th April 2014, 04:14 AM   #279
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My [sarcasm]favorite[/sarcasm] political cartoonist, Glenn McCoy, offered this take on the situation.



Because the two situations are completely identical.
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Old 17th April 2014, 05:58 AM   #280
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
Senator Rand Paul R-Ky. has stated: " the Federal Government shouldn’t violate the law, nor have 48 Federal agencies carrying weapons and having SWAT teams... the disputed land, which the Bundy family had leased from the county before a Federal takeover, should be returned to local control... the States and the individuals in the State should own these lands.”
Doesn't he have a presidential election to lose?
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