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Tags Cliven Bundy , militia incidents , Nevada incidents

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Old 17th April 2014, 06:46 AM   #281
squealpiggy
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
There's even a convenient and foolproof scapegoat already in place for Bundy to blame when he notices missing cattle. Think about it.
Aliens?

Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
In my limited personal experience, I have seen more wrath - and maybe qualitatively different wrath - directed at the federal government than at other jurisdictions. Maybe because it's higher profile, or works on a bigger scale, or invites more ideology-fueled controversy.
I wonder if it is related to the shorthand "the Fed" when referring to the conspiracy theories about the Federal Reserve? Essentially the shorthand becomes associated with overbearing or criminal governments and therefore anything "federal" becomes ebil gubmint or something.

Brief aside, people in Britain use the term "the Fed" as slang for police or anything related to government despite Britain having no federal anything. I blame the internet.

Originally Posted by crescent View Post
The article states that a pregnant woman was thrown to the ground. That never happened. An older woman was thrown to the ground. The pregnant woman yelled and screamed at the Rangers, while ignoring the Ranger's orders to stop advancing. While she was doing this, another woman was walking next to her, pointing at her, and screaming that the woman was pregnant, as if that somehow made her behavior more right.

Protesters never threatened violence - semantics. They did threaten to use second amendment solutions to the problem and to get physical, and to do whatever it takes. They aimed rifles at LE Rangers who were carrying out court orders. They stated that they were at war, that it might be necessary to spill blood, that they would like to see the BLM rangers hung.
Which is disgraceful. It's "HANGED".

I watched the video incidentally. One of the meatheads attacked a police dog. How is it even feasible that he didn't get arrested?

Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
Rand Paul doesn't know a damn thing about this situation and is talking out of his ass.
Meh, he's playing to his base.

Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
"The BLM has been caught committing horrific animal atrocities against the cattle owned by rancher Cliven Bundy. (Warning: graphic photo)
Very sad to see the government killing animals like this ":

http://www.naturalnews.com/044746_an...ndy_Ranch.html


.
Evil government agents murder one of the Bundy's 500 family pets! The lovable and loving cows delighted children and adults alike and were destined for a long life followed by death by old age after an extended convalescence and NOW THEY ARE DEAAAAAD!
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Old 17th April 2014, 06:52 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by squealpiggy View Post
I watched the video incidentally. One of the meatheads attacked a police dog. How is it even feasible that he didn't get arrested?
Because the government is jack-booted thugs. That's why. Or something like that... I dunno.

This whole situation absolutely amazes me. The amount of cognitive dissonance present is astounding.
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Old 17th April 2014, 07:15 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
I just discovered that I have a cattle trespass problem of my own.

ETA: Should I go directly to a Second Amendment solution and fill my freezer with beef?
If you do, be sure to pose next to the kill for a pic and post it here for all to see.
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Old 17th April 2014, 07:24 AM   #284
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
My [sarcasm]favorite[/sarcasm] political cartoonist, Glenn McCoy, offered this take on the situation.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m...ps48461b1b.gif

Because the two situations are completely identical.
I understand that a cartoonist's job is in part to be provocative. Every once in a while though you'll find one who is reprehensible.
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Old 17th April 2014, 07:31 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty View Post
Because the government is jack-booted thugs. That's why. Or something like that... I dunno.

This whole situation absolutely amazes me. The amount of cognitive dissonance present is astounding.
These bums can be glad they´ll never encounter actual jackbooted thugs. They´d last like, a minute, tops. That is, if they ever gather the courage to protest the actions of someone who actually is as bad as they accuse the government being; my guess would be they´d be too busy crapping their pants to do anything that might get them hurt.
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Old 17th April 2014, 07:33 AM   #286
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If it was really important to Bundy that all of his cows live without any harm at all then why didn't he take the opportunity to move them during 1 of the 20 years he has been breaking the law?
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Old 17th April 2014, 08:35 AM   #287
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Quote:
“We want freedom,” Bundy said. I don’t know what freedom Bundy’s talking about. He does not own the land nor does he even pay the modest fees required to use it. Thousands of ranchers across the West pay fees for their businesses, but Bundy thinks he should get to use public resources to make a personal profit. Cliven Bundy, far from being a patriot, is also clearly a straight-up communist.
The right's new fixation: an angry old white man who thinks freedom means not having to obey the law.
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Old 17th April 2014, 10:25 AM   #288
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Summary:

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/co ... are-coming

"The federal government’s over-the-top police action against the Bundy family ranch is an ominous portent of more to come, as rogue agencies and their corporate/NGO partners attempt to “cleanse” the West of ranchers, farmers, miners, loggers, and other determined property owners.
On Saturday, April 12, the federal bureaucrats backed down. Faced with hundreds of men and women on horseback and on foot who were armed with firearms and video cameras — as well as local television broadcast stations and independent media streaming live video and radio feeds across America — the Obama administration called off the Bureau of Land Management’s (BLM) operation to confiscate hundreds of cattle belonging to Cliven Bundy, the current patriarch of a respected pioneer family that has been ranching in Nevada’s Clark County since the 1800s.
Supporters from all across the United States had converged on the Bunkerville, Nevada, area in support of Bundy, who is the “last rancher standing” in Clark County, due to a decades-long campaign by federal agencies and allied enviro-activists to drive all ranchers off of the range. After a tense standoff, orders came down from above for the surrounded and outnumbered federal agents to “stand down” and turn loose the Bundy cattle that had been corralled.

On Saturday, before the resolution of the standoff, The New American talked to Richard Mack, the former sheriff of Graham County, Arizona, and founder of the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association (CSPOA), as he headed from a meeting of public officials to a press conference at the Bundy Ranch. He was very grave and worried at the time that the situation could spin out of control, and that federal agents might open fire on citizens. He also expressed his exasperation at Nevada Governor Brian Sandoval and Clark County Sheriff Douglass Gillespie. “If Governor Sandoval and Sheriff Gillespie were doing the jobs they were elected to do, they would have stopped this from getting to a dangerous point,” Sheriff Mack said. “There are lots of things they could have done to defuse this situation, including telling the Feds to ‘stand down,’ and to assert their own jurisdiction and force the federal authorities to obey the law, including the Constitution and the laws of the state of Nevada.”


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Old 17th April 2014, 10:31 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
Summary:

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/co ... are-coming

"The federal government’s over-the-top police action against the Bundy family ranch is an ominous portent of more to come, as rogue agencies and their corporate/NGO partners attempt to “cleanse” the West of ranchers, farmers, miners, loggers, and other determined property owners.
On Saturday, April 12, the federal bureaucrats backed down. Faced with hundreds of men and women on horseback and on foot who were armed with firearms and video cameras — as well as local television broadcast stations and independent media streaming live video and radio feeds across America — the Obama administration called off the Bureau of Land Management’s (BLM) operation to confiscate hundreds of cattle belonging to Cliven Bundy, the current patriarch of a respected pioneer family that has been ranching in Nevada’s Clark County since the 1800s.
Supporters from all across the United States had converged on the Bunkerville, Nevada, area in support of Bundy, who is the “last rancher standing” in Clark County, due to a decades-long campaign by federal agencies and allied enviro-activists to drive all ranchers off of the range. After a tense standoff, orders came down from above for the surrounded and outnumbered federal agents to “stand down” and turn loose the Bundy cattle that had been corralled.

On Saturday, before the resolution of the standoff, The New American talked to Richard Mack, the former sheriff of Graham County, Arizona, and founder of the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association (CSPOA), as he headed from a meeting of public officials to a press conference at the Bundy Ranch. He was very grave and worried at the time that the situation could spin out of control, and that federal agents might open fire on citizens. He also expressed his exasperation at Nevada Governor Brian Sandoval and Clark County Sheriff Douglass Gillespie. “If Governor Sandoval and Sheriff Gillespie were doing the jobs they were elected to do, they would have stopped this from getting to a dangerous point,” Sheriff Mack said. “There are lots of things they could have done to defuse this situation, including telling the Feds to ‘stand down,’ and to assert their own jurisdiction and force the federal authorities to obey the law, including the Constitution and the laws of the state of Nevada.”


.
While they had Hack, err, Mack on the record, any news from him about the PLA division that's sitting in Mexico waiting to invade the US? He had inside intell on that too....
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Old 17th April 2014, 12:02 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
"The BLM has been caught committing horrific animal atrocities against the cattle owned by rancher Cliven Bundy. (Warning: graphic photo)
Very sad to see the government killing animals like this ":

http://www.naturalnews.com/044746_an...ndy_Ranch.html


.
Actually, I was wondering about this. Why would the government have even bothered to try rounding up the thousand head of Bundy cattle? The animals are trespassing on federal land and are little more than destructive vermin. Kill them as you would any other invasive pest species and leave them where they lay. The whole thing could have been be over in a couple days.
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Old 17th April 2014, 12:10 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by SomedayGirl View Post
Actually, I was wondering about this. Why would the government have even bothered to try rounding up the thousand head of Bundy cattle? The animals are trespassing on federal land and are little more than destructive vermin. Kill them as you would any other invasive pest species and leave them where they lay. The whole thing could have been be over in a couple days.
It's not too late:



(image is royalty-free)
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Old 17th April 2014, 12:15 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
I understand that a cartoonist's job is in part to be provocative. Every once in a while though you'll find one who is reprehensible.
Ted Rall comes to mind.

Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
Summary:

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/co ... are-coming

"(snipped)”
How to use the Quote function
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Old 17th April 2014, 12:38 PM   #293
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Kill the cows. Let Bundy know where they are. Invite him to come and get his property at his earliest convenience.
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Old 17th April 2014, 01:36 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Kill the cows. Let Bundy know where they are. Invite him to come and get his property at his earliest convenience.
Won't someone think of the cows?!
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Old 17th April 2014, 01:39 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Won't someone think of the cows?!
I am thinking of the cows. Have you seen what this "ranch" looks like? Miserable desert scrub. If the cows could handle swords, they'd all be committing seppuku. Someone should call PETA.
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Old 17th April 2014, 01:52 PM   #296
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Well my fb friend has decided that he was misinformed "by the media, from BOTH sides!" His emphasis not mine.

He still supports the ranchers but I think that's just his knee jerk reaction to anything government. I'll keep working on him.
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Old 17th April 2014, 01:55 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Kill the cows. Let Bundy know where they are. Invite him to come and get his property at his earliest convenience.
Seems like the cheapest solution. Someone needs to use those FEMA bullets on something!
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Old 17th April 2014, 03:20 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
It's not too late:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...n-flight-2.jpg

(image is royalty-free)
I think it's better to keep THAT for tanks, yes?
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Old 17th April 2014, 03:24 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by SomedayGirl View Post
Actually, I was wondering about this. Why would the government have even bothered to try rounding up the thousand head of Bundy cattle? The animals are trespassing on federal land and are little more than destructive vermin. Kill them as you would any other invasive pest species and leave them where they lay. The whole thing could have been be over in a couple days.
Considering the current market price of beef cattle, this would have been wasteful. Hauling them to market and auctioning them off would help pay the costs of removal.

Threats of violence from Bundy and his supporters inflated the costs of the roundup.
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Old 17th April 2014, 03:28 PM   #300
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I had an outright yelling fight with a coworker about this issue.

It quickly escalated to trident fight and I may need to lay low for a while.

That second sentence was a joke. But I did have to walk away and go use the exercise bike at work gym for about 15 minutes just to work out the steam. It was the first time in 15+ years of my experience at work that I actually cursed at my fellow coworker.

The absolutely ridiculousness of Fox News has gotten me to the point where I literally want to yell.
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Old 17th April 2014, 03:52 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by daenku32 View Post
I had an outright yelling fight with a coworker about this issue.

It quickly escalated to trident fight and I may need to lay low for a while.

That second sentence was a joke. But I did have to walk away and go use the exercise bike at work gym for about 15 minutes just to work out the steam. It was the first time in 15+ years of my experience at work that I actually cursed at my fellow coworker.

The absolutely ridiculousness of Fox News has gotten me to the point where I literally want to yell.
This intrigues me. I might have to start arguing the other side of the issue. Surely I can come up with some justifications...
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Old 17th April 2014, 03:53 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by daenku32 View Post
The absolutely ridiculousness of Fox News has gotten me to the point where I literally want to yell.
I ignore Faux News the way I avoid a raving, spittle-flecked lunatic on a street corner, with the exception that I feel compassion for the lunatic.

Bundy appears to be an idiot determined to flout the law and lose his ranch. I don't see how else this can develop. It's a shame that he swallowed the self-entitlement rhetoric of the radical right. His kids will most likely lose their legacy due to his poor judgment.

I'm never happy to see stupidity like this, and I hope no one gets hurt.
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Old 17th April 2014, 04:05 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by daenku32 View Post
That second sentence was a joke. But I did have to walk away and go use the exercise bike at work gym for about 15 minutes just to work out the steam. It was the first time in 15+ years of my experience at work that I actually cursed at my fellow coworker.
I can sympathize. One of the images going around is that of a sniper, laying on the highway, aiming. The news reports identify him as Eric Parker, from Idaho.

He is aiming at my co-workers, at people I know.

I drive that stretch of interstate often, with my wife and kids go to and from Vegas on shopping forays. I wonder, if my family and I had been driving on the same patch of interstate, and had gotten stuck in the traffic when the road was closed: If I saw Mr. Parker with that rifle aimed at my co-workers, how would I have reacted?

I honestly don't know.

I can't imagine how close this came to bloodshed -what if a bystander in the highway tried to interfere with him?

Last edited by crescent; 17th April 2014 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 17th April 2014, 04:38 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
I can sympathize. One of the images going around is that of a sniper, laying on the highway, aiming. The news reports identify him as Eric Parker, from Idaho.

He is aiming at my co-workers, at people I know.

I drive that stretch of interstate often, with my wife and kids go to and from Vegas on shopping forays. I wonder, if my family and I had been driving on the same patch of interstate, and had gotten stuck in the traffic when the road was closed: If I saw Mr. Parker with that rifle aimed at my co-workers, how would I have reacted?

I honestly don't know.

I can't imagine how close this came to bloodshed -what if a bystander in the highway tried to interfere with him?

That image really pisses me off. As a gun owner you never point your gun at another human unless you are about to shoot them. That is irresponsible gun ownership right there.
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Old 17th April 2014, 05:02 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Won't someone think of the cows?!
Won't someone think of the calves.
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Old 17th April 2014, 05:43 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by Janadele View Post
"The BLM has been caught committing horrific animal atrocities against the cattle owned by rancher Cliven Bundy. (Warning: graphic photo)
Very sad to see the government killing animals like this ":

http://www.naturalnews.com/044746_an...ndy_Ranch.html


.
Do you eat beef? Then you eat the product of similar to worse treated cows.
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Old 17th April 2014, 06:02 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by gabeygoat View Post
Do you eat beef? Then you eat the product of similar to worse treated cows.
My only question is "did they kill enough cattle to drop the price of ground round?" I love me some cheap pink slime!
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Old 17th April 2014, 06:08 PM   #308
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
It's not too late:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...n-flight-2.jpg

(image is royalty-free)
Now that's a pink slime making machine right there!
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Old 17th April 2014, 06:32 PM   #309
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The BLM is admitting that it killed two bulls, for safety of the workers. Some of Bundy's cattle have very little contact with humans and are very feral.

The Bundys claim that the number was closer to 40, and show pictures of a "mass grave". There is only one cow visible in the mass grave. Two bulls plus that one cow makes three.

One thing that disappoints me is the BLM's interaction with the press and social media. Why were there no reporters riding along with the wranglers and the Rangers? Why was no twitter account set up? - I don't use twitter, but it seems to be a very good way to get information to the press. Why was there not a dedicated web site and Facebook page, with links to the relevant court decisions, cites from the relevant laws and such?

Maybe it really is a mass grave - this is a drought, and the range down there was very overgrazed from the get-go. Did those cows die on the range before the roundup even started, and get disposed of? Why do we have to wait for the Bundys to tell us these things before my own agency will? The BLM's press strategy so far has been completely reactive, and not even remotely proactive.

If we had a twitter feed and an active social media campaign, maybe some supporters would have gone down - maybe someone, anyone, would have been there to give the Bundy supporters some idea if how unpopular the Bundys actually are.
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Old 17th April 2014, 06:44 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by daenku32 View Post
I had an outright yelling fight with a coworker about this issue.

It quickly escalated to trident fight and I may need to lay low for a while.

That second sentence was a joke. But I did have to walk away and go use the exercise bike at work gym for about 15 minutes just to work out the steam. It was the first time in 15+ years of my experience at work that I actually cursed at my fellow coworker.

The absolutely ridiculousness of Fox News has gotten me to the point where I literally want to yell.
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Old 17th April 2014, 06:49 PM   #311
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
I can sympathize. One of the images going around is that of a sniper, laying on the highway, aiming. The news reports identify him as Eric Parker, from Idaho.

He is aiming at my co-workers, at people I know.

I drive that stretch of interstate often, with my wife and kids go to and from Vegas on shopping forays. I wonder, if my family and I had been driving on the same patch of interstate, and had gotten stuck in the traffic when the road was closed: If I saw Mr. Parker with that rifle aimed at my co-workers, how would I have reacted?

I honestly don't know.

I can't imagine how close this came to bloodshed -what if a bystander in the highway tried to interfere with him?
Can he be arrested for pointing a firearm at law enforcment engaged in the lawful application of their duty?
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Old 17th April 2014, 07:26 PM   #312
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I read somewhere that in the 90's the state started buying up grazing privileges to set aside tortoise habitat in order to free up "other areas" for development.

I'm willing to bet that those other areas included the Las Vegas area.

or is this too far into tin foil hat territory?
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Old 17th April 2014, 07:32 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by Alferd_Packer View Post
I read somewhere that in the 90's the state started buying up grazing privileges to set aside tortoise habitat in order to free up "other areas" for development.

I'm willing to bet that those other areas included the Las Vegas area.

or is this too far into tin foil hat territory?
That's not tinfoil at all.

http://www.clarkcountynv.gov/depts/dcp/Pages/About.aspx


It is my understanding that is part of what happened.
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Old 17th April 2014, 07:38 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty View Post
This whole situation absolutely amazes me. The amount of cognitive dissonance present is astounding.

Welcome to America, c. 2014. (To be fair, cognitive dissonance is hardly limited to the United States.)


Originally Posted by Biscuit View Post
Seems like the cheapest solution. Someone needs to use those FEMA bullets on something!

FEMA death camps: not just for people anymore!
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Old 17th April 2014, 08:10 PM   #315
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Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
Considering the current market price of beef cattle, this would have been wasteful. Hauling them to market and auctioning them off would help pay the costs of removal.

Threats of violence from Bundy and his supporters inflated the costs of the roundup.
Even if the round up had gone smoothly, which it wasn't going to, why round up the cattle EX. for $100 in expense including trucking them to ********, Wherever to auction them for $70 to offset the cost when the alternative was shoot them where they stood for $10?


Edited by Loss Leader:  Edited Rule 10. Do not try to evade the autocensor.
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Old 17th April 2014, 09:05 PM   #316
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Originally Posted by squealpiggy View Post
Can he be arrested for pointing a firearm at law enforcment engaged in the lawful application of their duty?
I imagine he would say that he is immune from prosecution because Second Amendment.

Beyond that, I have no idea.
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Old 17th April 2014, 09:17 PM   #317
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Originally Posted by SomedayGirl View Post
Even if the round up had gone smoothly, which it wasn't going to, why round up the cattle EX. for $100 in expense including trucking them to *******, Wherever to auction them for $70 to offset the cost when the alternative was shoot them where they stood for $10?
I'd like to pursue the question but first I need to know if those numbers are real or are free-range ************.

Last edited by Loss Leader; 18th April 2014 at 09:08 AM.
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Old 17th April 2014, 10:00 PM   #318
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Originally Posted by squealpiggy View Post
Can he be arrested for pointing a firearm at law enforcment engaged in the lawful application of their duty?

Shouldn't he be arrested for at the very least criminal menacing for pointing a gun at anybody not a unlawful threat to him? WTF?
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Old 17th April 2014, 10:38 PM   #319
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Shouldn't he be arrested for at the very least criminal menacing for pointing a gun at anybody not a unlawful threat to him? WTF?
Probably because the state could not prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.
Besides, he could always claim he was aiming the weapon at a horse or an empty BLM vehicle.

Also, arresting the ass-clown would have given him far more publicity than he deserves and might have fueled other ass-clowns to do other stupid things.

..................
ETA:
Not-A-Lawyer Disclaimer.
Depending on the wording of the statute in Nevada, the crime of menacing may require that the victim be aware of the menacing behavior.
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Old 17th April 2014, 11:00 PM   #320
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
If we had a twitter feed and an active social media campaign, maybe some supporters would have gone down - maybe someone, anyone, would have been there to give the Bundy supporters some idea if how unpopular the Bundys actually are.
If the guys who showed up with the guns are anything like the guys on the internet who always threaten to show up with guns in order to fight the illegitimate federal government, then someone explaining the facts or describing the unpopularity of the movement or demonstrating that the movement is on the wrong side of the law, would either have no effect at all or would exacerbate the situation.

The reason there may have been no Twitter feed is probably that someone decided that creating a BLM Twitter account for this incident might have given the incident more publicity than it deserves. I suspect that the White House (which uses its Twitter feed rather effectively) decided that these ass-clowns were already anti-Obama enough that White House Tweets would worsen the situation rather than help it.
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