ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags bigotry incidents , bigotry issues , India incidents , India issues

Reply
Old 2nd August 2019, 05:27 AM   #1
Susheel
Graduate Poster
 
Susheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hyderabad, India
Posts: 1,398
India-Bigotry in India

Well, India has hit a new low as keyboard warriors vie with each other about how bigoted they can be. Poster proudly announces how he cancelled his food order after his request for a Hindu delivery person (specifically non-Muslim) is denied. The company essentially told him that they would rather do without his custom:
https://scroll.in/latest/932360/zoma...red-by-a-hindu
There is no way I will say that casteism and religious intolerance was never a problem in India. However, the current government has contributed greatly to validating this bigotry. This is benign...however currently people are being beaten up and murdered on suspicion of cow smuggling/slaughter and for not using a hindu salutation.
__________________
I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon
Susheel is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd August 2019, 05:35 AM   #2
sarge
Philosopher
 
sarge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Fayetteville, NC
Posts: 6,329
Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
Well, India has hit a new low as keyboard warriors vie with each other about how bigoted they can be. Poster proudly announces how he cancelled his food order after his request for a Hindu delivery person (specifically non-Muslim) is denied. The company essentially told him that they would rather do without his custom:
https://scroll.in/latest/932360/zoma...red-by-a-hindu
There is no way I will say that casteism and religious intolerance was never a problem in India. However, the current government has contributed greatly to validating this bigotry. This is benign...however currently people are being beaten up and murdered on suspicion of cow smuggling/slaughter and for not using a hindu salutation.
The Republican Party in the US actively courts racist voters by formulating campaign strategies to attract them......and then does itís level best to deliver on its promises. While every Republican voter is not an active bigot, every active bigot is a Republican voter. They represent fully one-half the population of the US.

Thatís right, at the moment racism on an institutional level is the policy of the executive branch of the government and the upper half of the congress.


I have no experience with India, but it doesnít sound like your problems are much worse than ours.
__________________
My previous signature risked (unknowingly) violating the Hatch Act!
sarge is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd August 2019, 05:37 AM   #3
Susheel
Graduate Poster
 
Susheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hyderabad, India
Posts: 1,398
There are a lot pf parallels between the right wing dominance in governments across the globe.
__________________
I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon
Susheel is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd August 2019, 07:37 AM   #4
crescent
Illuminator
 
crescent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,105
Originally Posted by sarge View Post
I have no experience with India, but it doesn’t sound like your problems are much worse than ours.
India has periodic bouts of communal violence, such as the riots in Gujarat that left over 1000 people dead. Violence between castes also exists (10 deaths in 2018), albeit with a lower death toll. This sort of bigotry by politicians feeds into that, making such violence much more likely.

The U.S. has nothing on that scale. The worst of the riots in Furgeson were far less deadly than some of the riots in India that never even made the news over here.

The level of bigotry-related violence in India dwarfs that which the U.S. currently experiences. And their current political leadership encourages it.


The Indian Dalits attacked for wearing the wrong shoes

Quote:
Two Dalit men in the southern state of Tamil Nadu were killed by upper-caste Hindus after a Dalit man sat cross-legged in front of them during a temple ritual.

The upper-caste Hindus called it a "dishonourable and insulting" gesture. About 15 of them went to the Dalits' neighbourhood and mounted an ambush. In addition to the two men killed, six others were injured and houses were damaged, according to police.
Caste hatred in India - what it looks like

Quote:
Sagar Shejwal, a 24-year-old nursing student, travelled to the town of Shirdi in May 2015 to attend a friend's wedding. During the trip, Mr Shejwal went to a liquor store with two of his cousins and his phone started to ring while he was there. His ring tone was a song that paid tribute to Dr B R Ambedkar, a Dalit icon and revered Indian leader.

According to the police complaint, a group of eight men who had been drinking outside the shop objected to the ring tone and asked him to change it. The verbal spat reportedly turned violent and the men allegedly hit Mr Shejwal with a bottle, kicking and punching him before taking him away on a motorbike.

Police say they found his body hours later in a field.
Quote:
Manik Udage, 25, was allegedly beaten to death with a steel rod in 2014 because he had organised a grand event to celebrate the anniversary of Dr B R Ambedkar's birth.
Quote:
Nitin Aage, a 17-year-old boy from a village called Kharda, was found hanging from a tree on 28 April 2014.

According to the police, Nitin had been seen speaking to a girl from an upper-caste community at their school. Three men, including the girl's brother, had allegedly been harassing him for some time because they suspected he was in a romantic relationship with her.

Police said he was first beaten at the school and then allegedly taken to a property owned by the girl's family where he was strangled to death. They believe he was hanged from a tree to make it appear as if he had taken his own life.

The 13 men who were accused in the murder were acquitted in November 2017. Nitin's family has been demanding a retrial since then.
Quote:
Sanjay Danane, 38, was found hanging near the school where he worked in 2010. His parents allege that he was killed by his upper-caste colleagues because of a dispute at work and that they staged the death to resemble a suicide.

Police arrested about 18 people, including teachers, board members and the school's principal. They have since been granted bail.

Last edited by crescent; 2nd August 2019 at 07:44 AM.
crescent is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd August 2019, 10:12 AM   #5
Susheel
Graduate Poster
 
Susheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hyderabad, India
Posts: 1,398
Originally Posted by crescent View Post
India has periodic bouts of communal violence, such as the ...
The Indian Dalits attacked for wearing the wrong shoes

Caste hatred in India - what it looks like
All true....
__________________
I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon
Susheel is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd August 2019, 11:28 AM   #6
sarge
Philosopher
 
sarge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Fayetteville, NC
Posts: 6,329
Originally Posted by crescent View Post
India has periodic bouts of communal violence, such as the riots in Gujarat that left over 1000 people dead. Violence between castes also exists (10 deaths in 2018), albeit with a lower death toll. This sort of bigotry by politicians feeds into that, making such violence much more likely.

The U.S. has nothing on that scale. The worst of the riots in Furgeson were far less deadly than some of the riots in India that never even made the news over here.

The level of bigotry-related violence in India dwarfs that which the U.S. currently experiences. And their current political leadership encourages it.


The Indian Dalits attacked for wearing the wrong shoes



Caste hatred in India - what it looks like
10 intra-caste deaths in a year in a country with Indiaís population? Iím not willing to look it up, but I bet local government officials in the US committed more racially motivated deaths than that last year, both in raw numbers and as a percentage of population.

Not trying to one-up you, but I think you may be under estimating the scope and depth of racial unrest in the US.

I do appreciate your well researched point, however. As I said, I am virtually ignorant of India.
__________________
My previous signature risked (unknowingly) violating the Hatch Act!
sarge is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd August 2019, 01:21 PM   #7
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 21,363
Originally Posted by sarge View Post
10 intra-caste deaths in a year in a country with Indiaís population? Iím not willing to look it up, but I bet local government officials in the US committed more racially motivated deaths than that last year, both in raw numbers and as a percentage of population.

Not trying to one-up you, but I think you may be under estimating the scope and depth of racial unrest in the US.

I do appreciate your well researched point, however. As I said, I am virtually ignorant of India.
The BJP are Hindu fundamentalists. In a country with a large Muslim minority and a history of sectarian violence.

Intra-caste deaths are class-based not racist. And ten seems possibly an under-reporting from my understanding* of the situation - unfortunately.


*listening to BBC World Service
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd August 2019, 01:25 PM   #8
mgidm86
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,624
Originally Posted by sarge View Post
The Republican Party in the US actively courts racist voters by formulating campaign strategies to attract them......and then does it’s level best to deliver on its promises. While every Republican voter is not an active bigot, every active bigot is a Republican voter. They represent fully one-half the population of the US.

That’s right, at the moment racism on an institutional level is the policy of the executive branch of the government and the upper half of the congress.


I have no experience with India, but it doesn’t sound like your problems are much worse than ours.

You think there are no bigots that are Democrats? Wow!

The topic is India but in just two posts we've made it about America. Applause.
__________________
Franklin understands certain kickbacks you obtain unfairly are legal liabilities; however, a risky deed's almost never detrimental despite extra external pressures.

Last edited by mgidm86; 2nd August 2019 at 01:27 PM.
mgidm86 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd August 2019, 07:34 PM   #9
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
 
a_unique_person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 40,752
Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
Well, India has hit a new low as keyboard warriors vie with each other about how bigoted they can be. Poster proudly announces how he cancelled his food order after his request for a Hindu delivery person (specifically non-Muslim) is denied. The company essentially told him that they would rather do without his custom:

https://scroll.in/latest/932360/zoma...red-by-a-hindu

There is no way I will say that casteism and religious intolerance was never a problem in India. However, the current government has contributed greatly to validating this bigotry. This is benign...however currently people are being beaten up and murdered on suspicion of cow smuggling/slaughter and for not using a hindu salutation.
It's a popular political model these days. Stir up populist hatred to get votes. They do it because it works.
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes
a_unique_person is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd August 2019, 07:35 PM   #10
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
 
a_unique_person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 40,752
Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
The BJP are Hindu fundamentalists. In a country with a large Muslim minority and a history of sectarian violence.



Intra-caste deaths are class-based not racist. And ten seems possibly an under-reporting from my understanding* of the situation - unfortunately.





*listening to BBC World Service
The rape of the lower castes is only recently becoming a visible issue even though it has always been there.
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes
a_unique_person is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd August 2019, 08:01 PM   #11
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 23,006
Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
Well, India has hit a new low as keyboard warriors vie with each other about how bigoted they can be.
I find myself frequently shaking my head at India. With all the problems you have, it's a bit sad so many people make stuff up to harass a different caste.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd August 2019, 09:13 PM   #12
deadrose
Illuminator
 
deadrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: the wet side of the mountains
Posts: 3,182
Originally Posted by crescent View Post

The Indian Dalits attacked for wearing the wrong shoes
Quote:
Two Dalit men in the southern state of Tamil Nadu were killed by upper-caste Hindus after a Dalit man sat cross-legged in front of them during a temple ritual.

The upper-caste Hindus called it a "dishonourable and insulting" gesture. About 15 of them went to the Dalits' neighbourhood and mounted an ambush. In addition to the two men killed, six others were injured and houses were damaged, according to police.
Just a wee nit-pick here. In the article, the part about wearing the wrong shoes is further down in the text. What these men did that was so dreadful was showing the soles of their shoes to higher-caste men. In a lot of cultures, that's a grave insult, which is why throwing a shoe at someone, or striking them with a shoe, is so shocking.

Susheel, please correct me if I'm wrong. My expertise is just from knowing Indian people since I was a kid, and living in an area with a large Indian population.
deadrose is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd August 2019, 04:31 AM   #13
Mike!
Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it!
 
Mike!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not!
Posts: 32,356
Originally Posted by sarge View Post
The Republican Party in the US actively courts racist voters by formulating campaign strategies to attract them......and then does it’s level best to deliver on its promises. While every Republican voter is not an active bigot, every active bigot is a Republican voter. They represent fully one-half the population of the US.

That’s right, at the moment racism on an institutional level is the policy of the executive branch of the government and the upper half of the congress.


I have no experience with India, but it doesn’t sound like your problems are much worse than ours.
On that one you couldn't possibly be more wrong. I know plenty of solid democrat voting union member bigots. The idea there are no racist democrats is laughable.
__________________
"Never judge a man until youíve walked a mile in his shoes...
Because then it won't really matter, youíll be a mile away and have his shoes."

Last edited by Mike!; 3rd August 2019 at 04:34 AM.
Mike! is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th August 2019, 11:26 PM   #14
Susheel
Graduate Poster
 
Susheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hyderabad, India
Posts: 1,398
Sorry...didn't have access to net for three glorious days.
Casteism in India has always existed, however, since the Independence struggle there has been an effort to curb its excesses and also eliminate it, which becomes rather difficult since in most cases a person's surname is actually a caste marker. Centuries of social conditioning has made the upper caste populace quite comfortable with their entitlement and in many cases see any move for affirmative action as a threat to their entitlements. The state is such that over 80% of the senior administrative posts in both private and public sector institutions are dominated by the upper castes...so are the judiciary and various other public bodies. The link below reflects the general mentality of those in these positions:
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/stor...781-2019-07-24
The article above illustrates the current situation. The current government has unabashedly spoken of the return to a Hindu India and a key part of Hinduism is caste...in fact casteism seems to be the only common factor in the practice of Hinduism across the various cultures. This has validated the extremely casteist factions of the populace...particularly in the Northern States...what we refer to as the cow belt.
To add to this...while casteism is considered a predominantly Hindu bane, the attitude has sifted in to the other religions...Christianity and Islam. I guess one should expect the practice to seep in after more than a millennium.
The situa
__________________
I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon
Susheel is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th August 2019, 11:34 PM   #15
Susheel
Graduate Poster
 
Susheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hyderabad, India
Posts: 1,398
Casteist oppression is not just the violence...which yes is terribly under reported. In many villages there are strictures as to what a person from lower castes can and cannot do, wear and say. Caste based invectives are the common method of emotional torture by teachers in rural schools...they literally for children to drop out. In the 90s a research scholar at a university was dragged down from the bus he was travelling in and beaten up for daring to wear trousers...his crime was two-fold...1) He wore trousers (his caste was required to wear the dhothi gathered at the knees) and 2) He dared to better himself and have aspirations.
Again, there is no denying that this has always existed...however, there is definitely sanction from the centre as seen from the feeds from the BJP IT cell.
__________________
I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon
Susheel is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th August 2019, 11:41 PM   #16
Baylor
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,986
Originally Posted by sarge View Post
The Republican Party in the US actively courts racist voters by formulating campaign strategies to attract them......and then does itís level best to deliver on its promises. While every Republican voter is not an active bigot, every active bigot is a Republican voter. They represent fully one-half the population of the US.

Thatís right, at the moment racism on an institutional level is the policy of the executive branch of the government and the upper half of the congress.


I have no experience with India, but it doesnít sound like your problems are much worse than ours.
Baylor is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th August 2019, 11:44 PM   #17
Baylor
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,986
Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
On that one you couldn't possibly be more wrong. I know plenty of solid democrat voting union member bigots. The idea there are no racist democrats is laughable.
It is. It's amazing how far people go to deny reality. Unbelievable you see these delusions go mostly unchallenged on a forum for self-styled skeptics.
Baylor is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th August 2019, 12:25 AM   #18
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 23,006
Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
To add to this...while casteism is considered a predominantly Hindu bane, the attitude has sifted in to the other religions...Christianity and Islam. I guess one should expect the practice to seep in after more than a millennium.
The saddest thing of all is that the world was starting to make some progress on racism 20 years ago. Somehow, it's come roaring back into vogue, riding on the back of nationalism.

Good deal - a marriage of two unwanted cousins.

At least you can rest assured it's not a lot better elsewhere.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th August 2019, 01:22 PM   #19
casebro
Penultimate Amazing
 
casebro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,797
Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
On that one you couldn't possibly be more wrong. I know plenty of solid democrat voting union member bigots. The idea there are no racist democrats is laughable.
What about the possibility of Racist Vegetarians?
__________________
Great minds discuss ideas.
Medium minds discuss events.
Small minds spend all their time on U-Tube and Facebook.
casebro is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th August 2019, 01:27 PM   #20
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 47,493
Originally Posted by crescent View Post
The U.S. has nothing on that scale. The worst of the riots in Furgeson were far less deadly than some of the riots in India that never even made the news over here.
Well not lately but 100 years ago when we were great we could give them a run for their money.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th August 2019, 01:34 PM   #21
Mike!
Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it!
 
Mike!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not!
Posts: 32,356
Originally Posted by casebro View Post
What about the possibility of Racist Vegetarians?
At least worth a point and a giggle.
__________________
"Never judge a man until youíve walked a mile in his shoes...
Because then it won't really matter, youíll be a mile away and have his shoes."
Mike! is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th August 2019, 01:35 PM   #22
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 21,363
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Well not lately but 100 years ago when we were great we could give them a run for their money.
Possibly, if you define the incidents 160 years ago as very serious riots...
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th August 2019, 02:22 PM   #23
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 23,006
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
... riding on the back of nationalism.
Which has now gone mad, with the virtual annexation of Kashmir.

Well thought-out plan that, and fits the bigotry narrative - they're only muslims.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th August 2019, 03:31 PM   #24
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 45,070
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Which has now gone mad, with the virtual annexation of Kashmir.

Well thought-out plan that, and fits the bigotry narrative - they're only muslims.
Maybe somebody should remind Modi that they are Muslims with a protector in Pakistan, and Pakistant has nukes...Ö.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th August 2019, 03:46 PM   #25
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 45,070
Might have to get out my copy of this game:

https://www.gmtgames.com/p-461-next-...-pakistan.aspx
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th August 2019, 06:26 PM   #26
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
 
a_unique_person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 40,752
Only been on the brink of nuclear war over Kashmir a few times now. Why not see how much worse they can make it. It is vital to honour that mythical deity in the sky.
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes
a_unique_person is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th August 2019, 08:23 PM   #27
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 23,006
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Maybe somebody should remind Modi that they are Muslims with a protector in Pakistan, and Pakistant has nukes...Ö.
I think everyone in that part of the world's lucky the very moderate Imran Khan holds most of the power in Pakistan. However, there may come a point where the military isn't prepared to leave it to him.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th August 2019, 11:00 PM   #28
Susheel
Graduate Poster
 
Susheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hyderabad, India
Posts: 1,398
The abrogation of the article of accession 370 now makes India an occupationary force in Kashmir. But the primary target of the exercise was the lifting of article 35A that ensured the protection of property in Kashmir from being appropriated by people not belonging to Kashmir. This was primarily a strategy to provide access to prime real estate and resources to Modi's primary corporate buddies. That it also adversely targets the majority population in the State (now Union Territory, meaning it will be governed by the Central Government) is merely icing on the cake.
__________________
I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon
Susheel is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th August 2019, 11:09 PM   #29
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
 
a_unique_person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 40,752
Seems like a fair trade. The risk of nuclear war for a real estate bargain.
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes
a_unique_person is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th August 2019, 12:05 AM   #30
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
 
a_unique_person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 40,752
Mhodi does realise that if it comes to nukes, he could be fried by one? I thought MAD was assumed to be a good deterrent. Is he like the Xian fundies and thinks if he dies it's all good anyway?
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes
a_unique_person is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th August 2019, 12:38 AM   #31
dann
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 8,531
Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
Well, India has hit a new low as keyboard warriors vie with each other about how bigoted they can be. Poster proudly announces how he cancelled his food order after his request for a Hindu delivery person (specifically non-Muslim) is denied.

Shouldn't this be in Social Issues & Curry Events?
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th August 2019, 01:24 AM   #32
ThatGuy11200
Thinker
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London
Posts: 166
Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Mhodi does realise that if it comes to nukes, he could be fried by one? I thought MAD was assumed to be a good deterrent. Is he like the Xian fundies and thinks if he dies it's all good anyway?
If he's Hindu then he believes in reincarnation.
ThatGuy11200 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th August 2019, 03:28 AM   #33
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
 
a_unique_person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 40,752
Originally Posted by ThatGuy11200 View Post
If he's Hindu then he believes in reincarnation.

Oh, then we are good to go. Fire the nukes. Undoubtedly he doesn't think he will be coming back as an ant.
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes
a_unique_person is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th August 2019, 04:10 AM   #34
Susheel
Graduate Poster
 
Susheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hyderabad, India
Posts: 1,398
Like most people who beat the religion drum...I don't think these guys believe in any of this. hat they do know is that there are people in the country who are willing to swallow anything as long as it is wrapped in religion. Ultimately his agenda, as is the manifesto of his parent organisation - the RSS (The casteist Hindu version the Islamic fundy organisations), is actually a return to the patriarchal upper caste dominant India. As for Pakistan...Modi and the BJP have had a very mutually beneficial relationship with Pakistan as long as Nawaz Sharief was at the helm. Both would use the bogey of the other for electoral wins. Strangely the highest number of terrorist attacks in either countries were during their regimes and invariably after a major summit.
For instance, the "Kargil invasion" occurred at a time when the position of both leaders were pretty precarious in their respective counties. The war drums helped boost their local standing, though it late backfired on Sharief after he declared cessation of hostilities and the hawk Musharraf was having none of that.
Modi's current problem is that Imran Khan is focusing on cleaning up his own house and not willing to play his game the way Nawaz Shareif was willing to.
__________________
I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon
Susheel is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th August 2019, 12:30 PM   #35
Random
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,037
Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Possibly, if you define the incidents 160 years ago as very serious riots...
The 1921 Tulsa Massacre was pretty serious...
__________________
"...Am I actually watching Big Bird argue with the Egyptian God of the Dead? Is PBS sending some kind of weird religious message here?"
Random is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th August 2019, 01:31 PM   #36
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 45,070
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I think everyone in that part of the world's lucky the very moderate Imran Khan holds most of the power in Pakistan. However, there may come a point where the military isn't prepared to leave it to him.
Problem is if Modi's conduct towards the Muslims in Kashmir becomes outrageous enough, Khan is going to be forced to take action.
And in the end, Khan holds office on the suffrance of the Military.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th August 2019, 02:02 PM   #37
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
 
a_unique_person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 40,752
Or the occasional assassin.
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes
a_unique_person is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th August 2019, 09:17 PM   #38
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 23,006
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Problem is if Modi's conduct towards the Muslims in Kashmir becomes outrageous enough, Khan is going to be forced to take action.
And in the end, Khan holds office on the suffrance of the Military.
That was my point.

It's nice to see today, India and Indians doing everything they can to provoke Pakistan further.

I don't see any way this ends well.

Especially for Kashmiri.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th August 2019, 12:48 PM   #39
Susheel
Graduate Poster
 
Susheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hyderabad, India
Posts: 1,398
Riots and demostrations already being reported in Kashmir. The government is going all out to prevent "unfriendly" journalists and politicians into Pakisran.
__________________
I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon
Susheel is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th August 2019, 01:23 PM   #40
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 45,070
Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Only been on the brink of nuclear war over Kashmir a few times now. Why not see how much worse they can make it. It is vital to honour that mythical deity in the sky.
The problem with going to the brink time after time is sooner or later someone will miscalculate and go over.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:24 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.