Merged: Covid vaccines - supply, distribution and rollout / Beginning of the end

[bruto]

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

That doesn't sound like a good way to run a National Health Service.

It isn't, unfortunately. The national part has been bungled so far, and every state has a different way of doing it. So, for example, in Vermont, which like just about everywhere else has had far fewer doses delivered than promised, the government has made it clear they do not want anyone calling in before their group is scheduled, so as not to cause mayhem, and then there's going to be a web site for registering, which may or may not work, and which will likely be inundated the moment the starting gun is fired. And this is a state that is, by comparison with most, probably well run, and leading the nation in many ways. What a ******* mess!

[Bob001]

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

That doesn't sound like a good way to run a National Health Service.

The U.S. doesn't have anything like a National Health Service. The covid vaccines are being delivered by health departments at the city, county and state levels.

[Blue Mountain]

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

That doesn't sound like a good way to run a National Health Service.

At 74.7 vaccinations per 1,000 people, the UK is doing better than the US at 47.5. Both are way ahead of Canada, which as of now is at a paltry 17.3 per 1000. Part of the problem in Canada is simply getting the vaccine.

However, Canada is doing significantly better at handling the pandemic, which ironically may make us lower priority for the vaccine.

[Rolfe]

We've been told, don't call your doctor, wait to be called. This seems very sensible. If I haven't been called by the time the media say my age group should be called, I can always contact them then.

I do think there could be an issue about people not registered with a GP and they're going to have to think about how to deal with that.

[Matthew Best]

I can’t imagine that number is going to turn out to be a significant proportion of the population though.

[Matthew Best]

Originally Posted by Bob001

The U.S. doesn't have anything like a National Health Service. The covid vaccines are being delivered by health departments at the city, county and state levels.

Yes, that was rather the point. This seems to be yet another way in which scary socialist medicine is going to work better than the US system.

[Skeptical Greg]

Delete..

[Segnosaur]

Originally Posted by Blue Mountain

At 74.7 vaccinations per 1,000 people, the UK is doing better than the US at 47.5. Both are way ahead of Canada, which as of now is at a paltry 17.3 per 1000. Part of the problem in Canada is simply getting the vaccine.

And its going to get worse... Pfizer is actually halting shipments to Canada next week. (Before, they were just going to cut back on the number of doses sent.)

It will just be a temporary stoppage however... once they get their improved production line in action, they will (hopefully) increase the number of doses delivered.

Quote:

However, Canada is doing significantly better at handling the pandemic, which ironically may make us lower priority for the vaccine.

Excuse me while I go take off my mask and cough on random people.

[Spektator]

In our state, the state computer site that says "Find a Vaccination Site Here" merely redirects the user to county health departments, pharmacies, and supermarkets.

Our county health department website crashes whenever a new round of vaccines becomes available. The pharmacies tell us "We're still waiting on an allotment of vaccines, check back" (and some put us on waiting lists). The supermarkets are the same. Our personal GP site says "Don't ask about Covid-19 vaccines. We are not in line to be issued the vaccine." Our hospital sites crash or put us into maddening loops--"You need to indicate your gender." You go back and do it. Then two pages later, "You need to indicate your gender." And back and forth. It is maddening. I have a friend who recently retired from the IT department of a large organization, and he observed, "It's like they hired people to build these sites who never programmed anything past a Commodore 64."

[Thermal]

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

Yes, that was rather the point. This seems to be yet another way in which scary socialist medicine is going to work better than the US system.

Its more the logistics of a third of a billion people spread out over a Continent and creating a way to monitor and make sure everyone is getting dosed. Quite a few people I spoke with had no idea what they were supposed to be doing. The State wants you to tell them, for instance, if you are in the more expedient need category (elderly, diabetic, obese, occupational needs, smoker, etc). The NJ website says 'register and we'll let you know'. The actual vaccination sites say 'please come tell us and we'll line you up'

[Rolfe]

Quote:

I can’t imagine that number is going to turn out to be a significant proportion of the population though.

I don't honestly know. I have read suggestions that it's more people than one might imagine, for various reasons.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Spektator

In our state, the state computer site that says "Find a Vaccination Site Here" merely redirects the user to county health departments, pharmacies, and supermarkets.

Our county health department website crashes whenever a new round of vaccines becomes available. The pharmacies tell us "We're still waiting on an allotment of vaccines, check back" (and some put us on waiting lists). The supermarkets are the same. Our personal GP site says "Don't ask about Covid-19 vaccines. We are not in line to be issued the vaccine." Our hospital sites crash or put us into maddening loops--"You need to indicate your gender." You go back and do it. Then two pages later, "You need to indicate your gender." And back and forth. It is maddening. I have a friend who recently retired from the IT department of a large organization, and he observed, "It's like they hired people to build these sites who never programmed anything past a Commodore 64."

WA State is similar. I just went to site after site after site and each one you have to find the 'continue' or whatever version they use and sometimes it's absolutely not clear.

After going to sites and dates all morning I finally got an appointment for April 2nd. No other places are scheduling that far out. I'm hoping to find something sooner. Twice I got messages, 'sorry, someone else just took that spot'.

My doctor's office keeps sending me apologies "they are trying to fix it". But they did give me some Ambien (sleeping pill) at my request.

I need to stop trying. Yesterday was so positive, now I'm drained. I'm going to go back to just waiting until the vaccine supply picks up.

[Skeptic Ginger]

It pays to have insomnia sometimes (I don't have the Ambien yet). I just checked back with the Kaiser site (my HMO) and they had a dozen new openings. I got an appointment for the vaccine a week from Sat. I imagine by 7 or 8 am the appointments will all be gone. I'll be able to cancel the April appointment.

I can't tell you what a relief it is to have a vaccine appointment within a reasonable time. I was really worried I could easily die from this virus. Some people have no clue how dangerous this pathogen is. I do know.

[Klimax]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

It pays to have insomnia sometimes (I don't have the Ambien yet). I just checked back with the Kaiser site (my HMO) and they had a dozen new openings. I got an appointment for the vaccine a week from Sat. I imagine by 7 or 8 am the appointments will all be gone. I'll be able to cancel the April appointment.

I can't tell you what a relief it is to have a vaccine appointment within a reasonable time. I was really worried I could easily die from this virus. Some people have no clue how dangerous this pathogen is. I do know.

Even with "light" symptoms it can play havoc with body. (I caught it around 1st January, got off lightly) It caused various and weird sensations.

[Segnosaur]

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

Yes, that was rather the point. This seems to be yet another way in which scary socialist medicine is going to work better than the US system.

Canada "Socialized" health care system: .11 vaccines per 1 million

United States "Capitalist" health care system: .28 vaccines per 1 million

So simply having "socialist health care" is not going to necessarily be better than what the U.S. has. (Granted, Canada has had vaccine supply issues, but we've also done rather dumb things... sitting on vaccine doses over the holidays, etc.)

[Nessie]

I am in the JCVI group 2 of vaccine priorities, "all those 80 years of age and over and frontline health and social care workers" and go for my first dose on Sunday after work.

[Nessie]

Originally Posted by Rolfe

We've been told, don't call your doctor, wait to be called. This seems very sensible. If I haven't been called by the time the media say my age group should be called, I can always contact them then.

I do think there could be an issue about people not registered with a GP and they're going to have to think about how to deal with that.

My father, who is JCVI group 2 like me, has just received his second GP letter to advise him to wait for his appointment letter.

I know lots of NHS and care people who have had their first does, but only a couple of elderly people, who are 90 plus year olds, who have had theirs.

[Pixel42]

I know two 80 year olds, both with health issues, who have had their first jab.

[Spektator]

I managed to get my wife an appointment for January 27 when the county site opened for reservations at about 1 PM. It took about five minutes--had to fill out name, address, medical history, insurance information, etc--and I immediately tried to register myself, but by that time all 6000 slots had been taken. I was told to try next week.

On the other hand, we're told that the second shot is booked when you get the first, so maybe that will help.

[Rolfe]

One of my cousins had to be moved to a care home because her husband, who was her carer, died quite suddenly just before Christmas. I was worried about her because we all know about the history of covid in care homes, but what it actually did was put her up the priority list for vaccination and she had her first injection within days of entering the home.

When we get together for Zoom Church on Sundays the cheery call of "Has anyone been vaccinated yet?" has started to be answered in the affirmative by one or two of the crumblies contingent.

[casebro]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

It pays to have insomnia sometimes (I don't have the Ambien yet). I just checked back with the Kaiser site (my HMO) and they had a dozen new openings. I got an appointment for the vaccine a week from Sat. I imagine by 7 or 8 am the appointments will all be gone. I'll be able to cancel the April appointment.

I can't tell you what a relief it is to have a vaccine appointment within a reasonable time. I was really worried I could easily die from this virus. Some people have no clue how dangerous this pathogen is. I do know.

Kaiser here in So. California just sent a mailing. They have given 170,000 doses to their 1.5M members. Those were front line workers, and care facility residents. They are next going for 'those over 75",but don't have any vaccine. Next will be over 65s. But "Don't call us, we'll call you". I guess they will sort by risk factors? I suspect they will start each age group with those highest at risk. At 67 and having nearly all risk factors except living with others, once the age gets lowered to 65, perhaps they will jump me to the top of the list ahead of healthier 75 +?

But I do consider myself lower risk because I live alone. Nobody catches it out doors (gun range) or grocery stores.

[Rolfe]

People do catch it in grocery stores. There have been several grocery store clusters here. One supermarket currently has about 60 staff sick. If you're going into any shop get a good mask (preferable a respirator mask) and spend as little time inside as possible.

[Oystein]

I (nurse in a senior citizens' residence), along with all residents and staff (ca. 150 people, excepting only a handful of opt-outs), got my first shot 11 days ago, so by now I have some cause for the comfortable idea that I am pretty likely immune already. It is also a great relieve that many of our care recipients should be immune by now.

Coinciding the date of the first shot came the good news that the last of our less than ten cases had resolved (albeit only after two had died).

Some semblance of normalcy has thus returned - but us nurses still wear FFP2 masks, we test everybody twice a week, and visits are still restricted in number and duration with visitors having to wear PPE.

Because none of us can be 100% sure of their immunization status, with even the Pfizer/BioNTech vax being less than 100% effective.

I do not know the date for the second shot yet, but expect it to come close to the 3 weeks minimum wait time after the first.

Here in Germany, nursing homes and ICUs have absolute priority. Districts (counties) have set up vaccination sites, but in many places, they don't actually start vaxxing before February 10th or so, due to supply shortages. So while people older than 80 years were supposed to be in cohort 1 along with the nursing home residents, reality is that those 80+ folks not in a home still have to wait.

Since my shot was organized entirely by my company (my boss came in the office a few days before with the forms we needed to sign, I signed, and the only other thing I had to do was to show up in time for the shot), I have not informed myself how ordinary people would schedule their shots, and how that goes so far.

[Rolfe]

I don't think you should assume anything about your immune status until a few weeks after your second dose. Not enough is known about the effect of a single dose.

Sure, there are always some individuals who don't mount an effective immune response even after to doses properly given of anything, but I think at some point you have to relax about it.

[Klimax]

Originally Posted by Rolfe

People do catch it in grocery stores. There have been several grocery store clusters here. One supermarket currently has about 60 staff sick. If you're going into any shop get a good mask (preferable a respirator mask) and spend as little time inside as possible.

Respirator only if it has filtered exhaust, otherwise infected person will spread virus quite well.

[Puppycow]

I posted this last Saturday (Japan time), and it's Saturday afternoon again so I thought I'd check how much process has been made in the last week.
Latest updates from:

The Bloomberg tracker

Quote:

The biggest vaccination campaign in history has begun. More than 60.3 million doses in 55 countries have been administered, according to data collected by Bloomberg. The latest rate was roughly 2.95 million doses a day, on average.

For comparison, a week ago 37.9 million doses had been administered in 49 countries. An increase of 22.4 million in the last 7 days.

Quote:

Vaccinations in the U.S. began Dec. 14 with health-care workers, and so far 19.8 million shots have been given, according to a state-by-state tally by Bloomberg and data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In the last week, an average of 982,739 doses per day were administered.

For comparison, a week ago 13 million shots had been given and the rate was 844,387 doses per day.

The Our World in Data tracker
They have added some new graphs, including if you scroll down far enough, how many people have been completely vaccinated (i.e., received their second dose in the case of a 2-dose regimen). Israel remains in the lead with 38.83 doses administered per 100 people so far. They also note that 28.44% of the population have received at least one dose and 10.39% have received both doses.

It appears to have started showing up in this data (possibly):

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...ountry/israel/

The number daily new infections according to the 7-day moving average has been falling for about the last week. However, there is not yet a clear downward trend in deaths. But new infections is a leading indicator for deaths, so I would expect that to begin falling before the deaths do.

[Planigale]

Originally Posted by Klimax

Respirator only if it has filtered exhaust, otherwise infected person will spread virus quite well.

The main FFP3 mask we use has no expiratory valve. The whole mask is a filter. It should be equally effective to protect others as it is to protect the wearer.
https://www.3m.co.uk/3M/en_GB/compan...2799381&rt=rud
Other manufacturers masks are also available.

A good clue to effective fitting is whether your glasses fog up; if they do then the mask is not fitting properly.

[Rolfe]

Originally Posted by Klimax

Respirator only if it has filtered exhaust, otherwise infected person will spread virus quite well.

Yes indeed, it's important to put a second cloth or paper mask on over a respirator mask (although I find it does make my glasses fog up a bit again due to the exhaled air from the vent being directed up towards my eyes). But if you want to protect yourself as well as possible, get a respirator mask to go underneath your basic thing, and learn both how to wear it properly and how to take it off and store it.

[Rolfe]

Originally Posted by Planigale

The main FFP3 mask we use has no expiratory valve. The whole mask is a filter. It should be equally effective to protect others as it is to protect the wearer.
https://www.3m.co.uk/3M/en_GB/compan...2799381&rt=rud
Other manufacturers masks are also available.

A good clue to effective fitting is whether your glasses fog up; if they do then the mask is not fitting properly.

That's a good one. My masks do have exhalation valves, as they were originally specified for performing avian post mortems and nobody cares if you breathe human viruses at a dead swan. They make the masks more comfortable to wear because exhaled air isn't building up inside the mask.

When its on right your glasses don't fog. Then when you put another paper or cloth mask on top to cover the "protect others" bit, your glasses start to fog up again. You can't win!

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by Rolfe

When its on right your glasses don't fog.

That's ok, then.

As long as you're making life a little easier for yourself, that certainly cancels out the whole "protecting others".

Carry on.