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Old 18th November 2019, 10:12 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
It just occurred to me that "lisp" and "stutter" are difficult words to say for people who have those conditions.
Also "Rhoticism".
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Old 21st November 2019, 03:06 AM   #162
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I grew up in the North East of England and whilst by accent and pronunciation is probably a lot more neutral, I do tend to maximise the number of syllables in words (Mrs Don's pronunciation in brackets)

Library - Lie-bra-ree (Lie-bary)
February - Feb-roo-arry (Feb-ree)
Wednesday - Wed-ens-day (Whens-day)
Film - Fill-um (Moo-vee)

Maybe we just add those syllables to give us something to do on those long, cold winter's nights
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Old 21st November 2019, 07:42 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I grew up in the North East of England and whilst by accent and pronunciation is probably a lot more neutral, I do tend to maximise the number of syllables in words (Mrs Don's pronunciation in brackets)

Library - Lie-bra-ree (Lie-bary)
February - Feb-roo-arry (Feb-ree)
Wednesday - Wed-ens-day (Whens-day)
Film - Fill-um (Moo-vee)

Maybe we just add those syllables to give us something to do on those long, cold winter's nights
From what I can tell you both pronounce them incorrectly .
Lie brairy
Feb ue airy
Wend's day
Film
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Old 21st November 2019, 09:03 AM   #164
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English is a wonderful language, perhaps some day they'll consider using it in England.
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Old 21st November 2019, 09:07 AM   #165
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When I was a kid, we would occasionally see a Jagwire on the street. You know, the British car brand named after a big cat of the western hemisphere.
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Old 21st November 2019, 09:15 AM   #166
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The Japanese language puts four syllables in the word "film" in Katakana.

fu-i-ru-mu

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E3%8...83%AB%E3%83%A0
Not sure how the special characters will appear on your device but it looks OK on mine.
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Old 21st November 2019, 09:40 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
When I was a kid, we would occasionally see a Jagwire on the street. You know, the British car brand named after a big cat of the western hemisphere.

Unlike real live jaguars the Brit version was easy to track and catch. You just started at the dealership and followed the oil leaks until you got to where the clutch had given out.

Sometimes as much as entire blocks away.
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Old 21st November 2019, 09:50 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Unlike real live jaguars the Brit version was easy to track and catch. You just started at the dealership and followed the oil leaks until you got to where the clutch had given out.

Sometimes as much as entire blocks away.
As it happens, I saw one dead on the roadside just yesterday! From the Ford era, I believe.
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Old 21st November 2019, 07:23 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
The Japanese language puts four syllables in the word "film" in Katakana.

fu-i-ru-mu

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E3%8...83%AB%E3%83%A0
Not sure how the special characters will appear on your device but it looks OK on mine.
That's because Japanese doesn't have a /l/, and because Katakana is a syllabary where each character represents either a single vowel, or a consonant and a vowel. Or a single consonant that we in English render with two letters, like /sh/ and /th/, and a vowel.

That's why Japanese is so easy to pronounce. It's pronounced exactly as it as written.

ETA: The /i/ character is smaller than the others, which means it modifies the previous character from /fu/ to /fi/. There is no single character for /fu/. So it's actually a little more complex than I said it would be. The word is pronounced fi-ru-mu.

ETAA: The /f/ sound as we use it doesn't strictly exist in Japanese either. The character for /fu/ appears on the /h/ line and is pronounced without a strong fricative sound as we would use it.

Japanese writing is fascinating.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 02:49 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
That's because Japanese doesn't have a /l/, and because Katakana is a syllabary where each character represents either a single vowel, or a consonant and a vowel. Or a single consonant that we in English render with two letters, like /sh/ and /th/, and a vowel.

That's why Japanese is so easy to pronounce. It's pronounced exactly as it as written.

ETA: The /i/ character is smaller than the others, which means it modifies the previous character from /fu/ to /fi/. There is no single character for /fu/. So it's actually a little more complex than I said it would be. The word is pronounced fi-ru-mu.

ETAA: The /f/ sound as we use it doesn't strictly exist in Japanese either. The character for /fu/ appears on the /h/ line and is pronounced without a strong fricative sound as we would use it.

Japanese writing is fascinating.
I bet the Japanese real hate the word 'FujiFilm'.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 08:20 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
That's because Japanese doesn't have a /l/, and because Katakana is a syllabary where each character represents either a single vowel, or a consonant and a vowel. Or a single consonant that we in English render with two letters, like /sh/ and /th/, and a vowel.

That's why Japanese is so easy to pronounce. It's pronounced exactly as it as written.

ETA: The /i/ character is smaller than the others, which means it modifies the previous character from /fu/ to /fi/. There is no single character for /fu/. So it's actually a little more complex than I said it would be. The word is pronounced fi-ru-mu.

ETAA: The /f/ sound as we use it doesn't strictly exist in Japanese either. The character for /fu/ appears on the /h/ line and is pronounced without a strong fricative sound as we would use it.

Japanese writing is fascinating.
What you wrote confirms my understanding of the language, and I agree with the fascinating bit. What really fascinates me is why they bother with the 2000 or so characters they've borrowed from the Chinese when they can do just fine with the alphabet of just 42 characters. Why do they want to make life harder on them selves this way?
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Old 22nd November 2019, 09:11 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
What you wrote confirms my understanding of the language, and I agree with the fascinating bit. What really fascinates me is why they bother with the 2000 or so characters they've borrowed from the Chinese when they can do just fine with the alphabet of just 42 characters. Why do they want to make life harder on them selves this way?
Also, three writing methods. Once I found that katakana was mostly phonetic English word translation, it motivated me to learn it.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 09:29 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Also, three writing methods. Once I found that katakana was mostly phonetic English word translation, it motivated me to learn it.
Meh, Katakana and Hiragana are more like different fonts or latin script versus cursive. The Kanji is as though someone asked, "Hey, is there a way to make it 50x harder to read?"
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Old 24th November 2019, 10:24 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Also, three writing methods. Once I found that katakana was mostly phonetic English word translation, it motivated me to learn it.
Yes, katakana is used most often to denote transliteration of loan words. For example:

コーカー・コーラー
Kō-kā Kō-rā (Coca-Cola)
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Old 24th November 2019, 10:25 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
What you wrote confirms my understanding of the language, and I agree with the fascinating bit. What really fascinates me is why they bother with the 2000 or so characters they've borrowed from the Chinese when they can do just fine with the alphabet of just 42 characters. Why do they want to make life harder on them selves this way?
Because the kanji came first. Hiragana and katakana were invented as ways to make the kanji easier.

Disclaimer: I only took two years of Japanese, thirty five years ago. If someone with a better working knowledge of the language says something different, pay attention to them and not to me.
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Old 24th November 2019, 10:29 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
Does anyone really know how to pronounce "pshaw"?

It is pronounced "PGeorge PBernard", of course.
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Old 25th November 2019, 06:56 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Because the kanji came first. Hiragana and katakana were invented as ways to make the kanji easier.

Disclaimer: I only took two years of Japanese, thirty five years ago. If someone with a better working knowledge of the language says something different, pay attention to them and not to me.
You beat my 1 year 35 years ago.

Still, hiragana and katakana are an order of magnitude better and easier Its not like Chinese with the tones and what not.
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Old 25th November 2019, 08:33 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Yes, katakana is used most often to denote transliteration of loan words. For example:

コーカー・コーラー
Kō-kā Kō-rā (Coca-Cola)
That one right there was probably my epiphany.
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Old 25th November 2019, 08:45 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by xterra View Post
It is pronounced "PGeorge PBernard", of course.
I'm reminded of Pterry's character Ptracy....
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Old 25th November 2019, 07:15 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
You beat my 1 year 35 years ago.

Still, hiragana and katakana are an order of magnitude better and easier Its not like Chinese with the tones and what not.
You do still have to be careful though. My teacher's favourite example was Bāka - a sweet, and Baka - an idiot.

The line over the vowel denotes an extended sound - Baaaka. That is what the horizontal like in between the kana in Kōkā Kōrā represents.
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Old 26th November 2019, 10:18 AM   #181
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I always misread infrared to sound like the end bit of compared. Thermopylae really ought to be spelt and pronounced thermopile. As for the girls' name Penny Lope...
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Old 26th November 2019, 10:20 AM   #182
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You want difficult pronunciation?


Try saying "Peggy Babcock" five times in succession.
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Old 26th November 2019, 09:21 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by The Common Potato View Post
I always misread infrared to sound like the end bit of compared. Thermopylae really ought to be spelt and pronounced thermopile. As for the girls' name Penny Lope...
For years I thought Yosemite was pronounced like Vegemite. Except with only two syllables. Yose to rhyme with hose, mite to rhyme with height.

I always knew the character as "Yose-mite Sam"
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Old 26th November 2019, 11:31 PM   #184
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How were you viewing the character's name without hearing a pronunciation? I'm imagining that in the cartoons he often says his name.
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Old 26th November 2019, 11:42 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by BowlOfRed View Post
How were you viewing the character's name without hearing a pronunciation? I'm imagining that in the cartoons he often says his name.
Comic books mostly I think.
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Old 27th November 2019, 08:06 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
For years I thought Yosemite was pronounced like Vegemite. Except with only two syllables. Yose to rhyme with hose, mite to rhyme with height.

I always knew the character as "Yose-mite Sam"
My wife considered naming one of our kids Yosemite until I started pronouncing it, "Yo Semite!"
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Old 27th November 2019, 11:08 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by The Common Potato View Post
I always misread infrared to sound like the end bit of compared. Thermopylae really ought to be spelt and pronounced thermopile. As for the girls' name Penny Lope...
Here you go!
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Old 29th November 2019, 06:29 PM   #188
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"Issue" in British English. In US English it's pronounced more like "ishue", but when I listened to my Harry Potter audio books read by Stephen Fry, he pronounced it like it's written, "issue". I tried pronouncing it and found it remarkably difficult to make it sound right. Don't really know why.
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Old 29th November 2019, 07:46 PM   #189
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Don't worry, you're not alone.

Most Australians use the pronounciation: iSHue and tiSHue, and think it hilarious when I pronounce them correctly.

I think the confusion comes from sure, and sugar where su IS pronounced as sHu.

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Old 1st December 2019, 07:13 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
For years I thought Yosemite was pronounced like Vegemite. Except with only two syllables. Yose to rhyme with hose, mite to rhyme with height.

I always knew the character as "Yose-mite Sam"

I though he always declared his name in his cartoon appearances.

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Old 1st December 2019, 07:50 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
"Issue" in British English. In US English it's pronounced more like "ishue", but when I listened to my Harry Potter audio books read by Stephen Fry, he pronounced it like it's written, "issue". I tried pronouncing it and found it remarkably difficult to make it sound right. Don't really know why.
Most Brits pronounce it "ishue". Fry is posh.
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Old 1st December 2019, 08:50 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
I though he always declared his name in his cartoon appearances.
I would not have connected the syllables he spoke with the appearance of the word.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 07:06 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I would not have connected the syllables he spoke with the appearance of the word.
"Hermione" is another tough one.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 07:22 AM   #194
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It was a long time before I realized the word I'd read and the word I'd heard were the same word, with "Adirondack". Not the place I assumed the stressed syllable fell.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 07:40 AM   #195
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I always stumble over the words "repeat prescription," which at my time of life is getting to be a significant issue.

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Old 2nd December 2019, 08:20 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
It was a long time before I realized the word I'd read and the word I'd heard were the same word, with "Adirondack". Not the place I assumed the stressed syllable fell.
"nonchalant" = "non-cal-ent" (as read)
Before 8th grade, I had read and heard the word many times. I only knew the written word in context and thought it was different, though similar. Then during a read-aloud in class one guy said it properly and I finally made the connection. I was privately embarrassed and thankful that I was not the one reading that passage aloud at the time.

Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
"Hermione" is another tough one.
For years I thought it was "Her-my-own", because I had only read it in the credits of The Music Man. It was probably the first Harry Potter movie that enlightened me. (I had never read the books.)
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Old 2nd December 2019, 03:25 PM   #197
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A graduate student of mine many years ago, in a discussion in class, pronounced "chaos" as chouse (ch from church and ouse from house).

I took him aside later and told him it is pronounces "KAY-ahs" (American English). British English is "KAY-os," I believe.

This was another case of never having heard the word, only read it.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 03:54 PM   #198
arthwollipot
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
It was a long time before I realized the word I'd read and the word I'd heard were the same word, with "Adirondack". Not the place I assumed the stressed syllable fell.
My rule of thumb is that in a four-syllable word, the stress tends to be on the second syllable. There are exceptions, though, and the above word appears to be one of them.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 04:32 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Most Brits pronounce it "ishue". Fry is posh.
Might also be a generational thing. C.f. controversial (five syllables).
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Old 3rd December 2019, 04:38 PM   #200
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Two words I keep hearing lately, always related to political reporting.

Irrevocable and divisive.

But I often hear them pronounced differently from what I'm used to (and what the online Dictionary tells me).

I hear "ir-revoke-able" instead of "ir-revikable"
and
"dih-viz-iv" instead of "dih-vice-iv".
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