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Tags donald trump , mental illness issues , psychiatry incidents , psychiatry issues , Trump controversies

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Old 2nd August 2018, 01:11 PM   #481
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Surely this is evidence of psychiatric disability:

Quote:
Because of summer vacation schedules, we had fallen a month behind in updating The Fact Checkerís database that analyzes, categorizes and tracks every suspect statement uttered by the president.

It turns out thatís when the president decided to turn on the spigots of false and misleading claims. As of day 558, heís made 4,229 Trumpian claims ó an increase of 978 in just two months.

Thatís an overall average of nearly 7.6 claims a day.

When we first started this project for the presidentís first 100 days, he averaged 4.9 claims a day. But the average number of claims per day keeps climbing the longer Trump stays in office. In fact, in June and July, the president averaged 16 claims a day.

Put another way: In his first year as president, Trump made 2,140 false or misleading claims. Now, just six months later, he has almost doubled that total.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...&noredirect=on
His supporters don't care and don't believe it; it's just part of the 'fake media's' assault on their Beloved Leader. It's no different than the mentality of Scientologists, the Jim Jones followers, the Heaven's Gate followers, etc. What is truly mind boggling, though, is the sheer amount of them who have willingly embraced Trump's lies. That so many people actually want to believe and follow such a pathological malignant narcissist is what scares me.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 01:56 PM   #482
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Lying is now evidence of a psychiatric disability?
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Old 2nd August 2018, 02:01 PM   #483
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Lying is now evidence of a psychiatric disability?
Trump appears to believe his own lies, at least when he tells them, even if they contradict something he was recorded saying previously. That enters the world of delusional thinking.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 02:09 PM   #484
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Lying is now evidence of a psychiatric disability?
Reminds me of an old joke:

Q. How do you know when a politician is certifiably insane?

A. Their lips are moving.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 02:43 PM   #485
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Intro to Personality Disorders
We have previously reviewed the four defining features of personality disorders. These are:

1) Distorted thinking patterns,
2) Problematic emotional responses,
3) Over- or under-regulated impulse control, and
4) Interpersonal difficulties.

These four core features are common to all personality disorders.

https://www.mentalhelp.net/articles/...ers-cluster-a/
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Old 2nd August 2018, 02:54 PM   #486
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Lying is now evidence of a psychiatric disability?
A bit out of context there don't you think?

Pathological lying, compulsive lying, lying about things that there is no reason to lie about, consistently lying about how great one is and being unable to not lie if one is not great.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 03:18 PM   #487
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God, this thread is getting ridiculous. Now, Trump probably has OCD too. Trump supporters are also probably insane or just sheepish cult followers.

It's getting more apparent that this has never really been about anyone's actual mental illness but about saying that people you disagree with are defective somehow. It's dehumanizing, when you get down to it -and not just to Trump and his supporters but to everyday people who suffer from mental illness.

Engage your opponents on the issues. That's how you win people over. What's happening in this thread is the same kind of mudslinging that everyone says they hate. The difference is that the mudslinging is being given a veneer of respectability in the form of professionals in white coats doing the mudslinging.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 03:24 PM   #488
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
Intro to Personality Disorders
We have previously reviewed the four defining features of personality disorders. These are:

1) Distorted thinking patterns,
2) Problematic emotional responses,
3) Over- or under-regulated impulse control, and
4) Interpersonal difficulties.

These four core features are common to all personality disorders.

https://www.mentalhelp.net/articles/...ers-cluster-a/
Symptoms of Dementia:

Early Dementia:
  • Personality changes
  • Mood swings
  • Poor judgment
  • Paranoia or suspiciousness

Intermediate Dementia:
  • Worsening of early dementia symptoms
  • Abnormal moods
  • Confabulation
  • Inability to learn new information

Advanced Dementia:
  • Worsening of the intermediate signs and symptoms of dementia
  • Inability to walk or move to place to place unassisted
  • Complete loss of short and long term memory

https://www.emedicinehealth.com/deme...article_em.htm
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Old 2nd August 2018, 03:30 PM   #489
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
God, this thread is getting ridiculous. Now, Trump probably has OCD too.

[snipped BS].
A lot of disorders have overlapping symptoms and terminology. Trump lying compulsively, such as still bringing up his inauguration crowd size a year after the event, suggests it an obsessive compulsive behavior.

It is not the OCD I imagine you are thinking of where a person is compelled to wash their hands dozens of times a day.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 03:36 PM   #490
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Symptoms of Dementia:

Early Dementia:
  • Personality changes
  • Mood swings
  • Poor judgment
  • Paranoia or suspiciousness

Intermediate Dementia:
  • Worsening of early dementia symptoms
  • Abnormal moods
  • Confabulation
  • Inability to learn new information

Advanced Dementia:
  • Worsening of the intermediate signs and symptoms of dementia
  • Inability to walk or move to place to place unassisted
  • Complete loss of short and long term memory

https://www.emedicinehealth.com/deme...article_em.htm
You think that's a better fit for Trump than NPD?

Trump does appear to perhaps have the beginning of dementia which is exacerbating his NPD. Whether that is with the norm for brain deterioration with age or something worse isn't clear or obvious.

I'm reading Russian Roulette by Isikoff and Corn and it's mind boggling how much more intelligent Trump would have had to have been in his younger days. Still had his narcissism but he was a much better swindler and con artist.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 04:24 PM   #491
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
God, this thread is getting ridiculous...

It's getting more apparent that this has never really been about anyone's actual mental illness
You're right. For some it's about defending dear Leader no matter what. But of course you can't admit to it because that would be indefensible. Instead you talk about 'engaging your opponents on the issues' then dismiss their arguments as 'dehumanizing' .

Quote:
Engage your opponents on the issues.
We tried that already. Doesn't work when the only issue that matters to them is 'winning'.

Quote:
What's happening in this thread is the same kind of mudslinging that everyone says they hate. The difference is that the mudslinging is being given a veneer of respectability in the form of professionals in white coats doing the mudslinging.
The only person doing any mudslinging around here is you.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 04:36 PM   #492
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You think that's a better fit for Trump than NPD?

Trump does appear to perhaps have the beginning of dementia which is exacerbating his NPD. Whether that is with the norm for brain deterioration with age or something worse isn't clear or obvious.

I'm reading Russian Roulette by Isikoff and Corn and it's mind boggling how much more intelligent Trump would have had to have been in his younger days. Still had his narcissism but he was a much better swindler and con artist.
I think it's just as likely to be every-day run-of-the-mill narcissism exacerbated by dementia as it is to be Narcissistic Personality Disorder. In other words, I think it's just as reasonable to assume that he does NOT have a severe personality disorder, and is just a regular self-centered jerk with dementia... as opposed to rubbing a fancy sounding medical term on it in order to elicit an emotional response based on the stigmata of mental disorders in the US.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 05:26 PM   #493
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I think it's just as likely to be every-day run-of-the-mill narcissism exacerbated by dementia as it is to be Narcissistic Personality Disorder. In other words, I think it's just as reasonable to assume that he does NOT have a severe personality disorder, and is just a regular self-centered jerk with dementia... as opposed to rubbing a fancy sounding medical term on it in order to elicit an emotional response based on the stigmata of mental disorders in the US.
Trump's narcissism is far beyond just "every-day run-of-the-mill narcissism". Everyone has some narcissism if they have a healthy ego. But Trump's incessant need to lie in order to promote his own 'greatness' is way into the realm of unhealthy. Calling himself a genius, telling us he has one of the greatest memories of all time, the need to repeatedly lie about the inauguration crowd size, lying about how he's got better poll numbers and is more popular than Lincoln, bragging about his deal making abilities, etc. are not indications of a healthy ego but are instead symptoms of NPD.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 05:30 PM   #494
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Lying is now evidence of a psychiatric disability?
No. Everyone lies. But when a president publicly lies on an average of 7.6 times a day, that is evidence of a real psychiatric problem.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 05:54 PM   #495
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
You're right. For some it's about defending dear Leader no matter what. But of course you can't admit to it because that would be indefensible. Instead you talk about 'engaging your opponents on the issues' then dismiss their arguments as 'dehumanizing' .
You seem to be implying that I'm defending Trump. Please demonstrate this.

Quote:
We tried that already. Doesn't work when the only issue that matters to them is 'winning'.
Got it. That didn't work; now you are trying the "Trump and his followers are mentally ill" strategy. Doesn't seem to be working any better.

There are plenty of threads in this forum where you can make a case against Trump just by using his actual actions in office and offering criticism and counterpoint. What is gained by this mental health angle?

Quote:
The only person doing any mudslinging around here is you.
Who am I slinging mud at, exactly?
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Old 2nd August 2018, 06:20 PM   #496
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
...
Who am I slinging mud at, exactly?
Whomever you are addressing in post #487.

As for not supporting Trump, it appears for all intents and purposes your refusal to look at blatant NDP is because you support Trump. But I will accept that you and Emily's Cat believe you are only addressing some 'wrong' on the internet.

You've dug your heels in and now they're stuck.

Considering post #487, you might want to look at the projection you seem to be flinging around as an argument.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 06:41 PM   #497
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Are there still people posting here who think this man is normal???
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Old 2nd August 2018, 07:14 PM   #498
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
Are there still people posting here who think this man is normal???
He's better than normal. He's a very stable genius who has the best words.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 07:21 PM   #499
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
As for not supporting Trump, it appears for all intents and purposes your refusal to look at blatant NDP is because you support Trump.
Then I must question your powers of observation.
Quote:
But I will accept that you and Emily's Cat believe you are only addressing some 'wrong' on the internet.
I'm not addressing "some 'wrong' on the internet." I'm addressing the unprofessional and unethical behavior of mental health experts who made very public statements in various media regarding the mental health of someone they have never met.

As far as mudslinging goes, I am not calling anyone names or referring to anyone as cult-like because I disagree with their politics. I haven't called anyone deplorable for supporting the candidate of their choice. I have not imputed anyone's intelligence or mental stability for supporting the Yale group. That's mudslinging.

All I've done is point out that if one is biased against a certain person, that colors how one processes information about that person. A Trump supporter does not see his glaring flaws; a Trump detractor sees nothing but the flaws. In both cases, this leads to faulty reasoning: Trump is either the greatest or he's mentally ill. If pointing out faulty reasoning is mudslinging . . .well, then that's a weird definition of mudslinging.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 08:01 PM   #500
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Then you might want to reword post # 487 because it is clearly attacking people in this thread.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 08:08 PM   #501
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Then you might want to reword post # 487 because it is clearly attacking people in this thread.


Attacking people how, exactly? Certainly wasnít my intent so Iíd like to know where you see an attack.


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Old 2nd August 2018, 08:50 PM   #502
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
....
Engage your opponents on the issues. That's how you win people over.
....
Engaging on the issues requires a common acknowledgment of the facts. You can debate what to do about climate change, even challenge some of the methodology behind the science, but if you claim that it's not happening or it's a Chinese hoax, there's not much to talk about. You can debate immigration policy, but if you start with the premise that millions of drug-pushing Mexican rapists are pouring over the border, you won't get anywhere. You can talk about how to respond to Russian election interference, but if the President rejects the united voices of his own intelligence chiefs and embraces the dictator of an adversary nation who swears it never happened, there's not much common ground. Etc., etc., etc. Trump lives in a fantasy world that he has manufactured for himself and his truly unthinking followers. He has never "engaged on the issues," and fears about him go way beyond how to spend tax dollars.

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Old 2nd August 2018, 09:09 PM   #503
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Attacking people how, exactly? Certainly wasnít my intent so Iíd like to know where you see an attack.


You could just concede you know. The evidence is overwhelming Trump has pathologic NPD.

He may be losing some of his mental capacity but it's not clear if that is normal aging or more serious deterioration. Regardless dementia certainly isn't his primary pathology, NPD is.

To claim a professional needs an in-person evaluation in order to diagnose Trump has been debunked.

It may be a general consensus that professionals shouldn't make their views/diagnosis public about anyone. But the professionals that have gone public disagree and stated their reasoning.

And, Trump's NPD both explains a lot of his behavior and predicts it as well.


If you want to use the arguments in post #487 to rebut the above, they don't.

Your blanket assertion the above points are purely partisan and not based on actual evidence is unsupportable.

If you are not denying the conclusion Trump has NPD, and only complaining about the fact some professionals made their assessments public, that is not the basis of an argument.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 12:46 AM   #504
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
You seem to be implying that I'm defending Trump. Please demonstrate this.

Trying to normalize Trump's behavior is bound to look like an attempt to defend the indefensible for political purposes, and there has certainly been a lot of that in this thread. Leaving aside the question of "diagnosis," do you or do you not agree with the assertion that Donald Trump's behavior -- his incitement of violence against the press being just one example -- is both abnormal and dangerous?
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Old 3rd August 2018, 05:46 AM   #505
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Reminds me of an old joke:

Q. How do you know when a politician is certifiably insane?

A. Their lips are moving.
Your posts may as well be generated by a Trump normalization bot.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 05:58 AM   #506
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
Are there still people posting here who think this man is normal???
I think everyone knows he's wonky. I think some believe that, unless and until he is examined in person by a qualified head doctor, we cannot say for sure.

I've yet to receive any reasonable answer to the query about just what the US president has to do to be compelled to undertake such an examination.

As far as I can tell he can be painting the walls of his office with his own excrement and he still can't be removed from office because he can't be formally examined or diagnosed.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 06:01 AM   #507
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
No. Everyone lies. But when a president publicly lies on an average of 7.6 times a day, that is evidence of a real psychiatric problem.
Oh. What's the threshold for lies per day before it reaches psychiatric problem, somewhere in the 5's?
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Old 3rd August 2018, 06:11 AM   #508
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Everyone is getting a bit hot under the collar about remote diagnosis of Trump. That is foolish.

Consider your own lives. Everyone has encountered in their daily lives a person who is definitely unhinged. Does everyone then clutch their pearls fretting about an exact diagnosis? Nope. One simply accepts that such a person is bonkers, the precise nature really does not matter. After that, one simply avoids like the plague/attempts collateral damage limitation/encourage professional care etc. depending on the extent of the crackpottery. It might even go as far as instigating an intervention or a section 8 or whatever.

The one thing one doesn't do is invent excuses for said crackpottery.

This is what everyone does in real life.

Now apply that to Trump.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 06:18 AM   #509
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I am still sitting here wondering what politician, especially presidential level, doesn't have NPD on some level. Then I wonder, why is NPD disqualifying?
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Old 3rd August 2018, 06:20 AM   #510
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
I am still sitting here wondering what politician, especially presidential level, doesn't have NPD on some level. Then I wonder, why is NPD disqualifying?
Do you know what co-dependancy is?
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Old 3rd August 2018, 06:28 AM   #511
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A non-sequitur?
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Old 3rd August 2018, 06:51 AM   #512
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Trying to normalize Trump's behavior is bound to look like an attempt to defend the indefensible for political purposes, and there has certainly been a lot of that in this thread. Leaving aside the question of "diagnosis," do you or do you not agree with the assertion that Donald Trump's behavior -- his incitement of violence against the press being just one example -- is both abnormal and dangerous?


Here is where the issue is: I have acknowledged that Trumpís behavior is not normal. I do not approve. He never should have been President. Heís a bad hombre. There is no thread in which I have defended Trumpís behavior, including this one.

I am solely concerned, in this thread, with the unprofessional and unethical conduct of the Yale group. What they are doing is wrong on a professional level. What Iím defending is the integrity of the medical profession. I donít want to normalize unprofessional conduct.

Can you acknowledge that?


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Old 3rd August 2018, 06:56 AM   #513
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Everyone is getting a bit hot under the collar about remote diagnosis of Trump. That is foolish.

Consider your own lives. Everyone has encountered in their daily lives a person who is definitely unhinged. Does everyone then clutch their pearls fretting about an exact diagnosis? Nope. One simply accepts that such a person is bonkers, the precise nature really does not matter. After that, one simply avoids like the plague/attempts collateral damage limitation/encourage professional care etc. depending on the extent of the crackpottery. It might even go as far as instigating an intervention or a section 8 or whatever.

The one thing one doesn't do is invent excuses for said crackpottery.

This is what everyone does in real life.

Now apply that to Trump.


I do apply that. I will not however, get onboard with the unprofessional conduct of clinicians who have never so much as been in the same room with a person making public statements about their mental health.

Two wrongs donít make a right.


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Old 3rd August 2018, 07:05 AM   #514
uke2se
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We don't know if Trump suffers from NPD. He might be, but there would have to be a medical investigation to know for sure.

We do know, however, that he's a deeply immoral human being, possibly - I would say likely - to the point of criminality, and that the people who support him do so either for selfish or for hateful reasons. We also know that he's in the process of dismantling the US as a democracy and if he's not stopped, things will go from bad to worse.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 07:20 AM   #515
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Prediction: There won't be any psychological tests performed on Trump. Also, he will be reelected for another term, and this thread will probably continue going until we're near the end of his second term, which by then it will be pointless to continue arguing whether or not it can be proven that Trump's bonkers, because he'll be on his way out of office anyway.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 07:20 AM   #516
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I am solely concerned, in this thread, with the unprofessional and unethical conduct of the Yale group. What they are doing is wrong on a professional level. What Iím defending is the integrity of the medical profession. I donít want to normalize unprofessional conduct.
Is it just the medical profession? If, for example, a police union says that candidate B is "soft on crime," is that an abuse of their professional status? If a teachers' union announces that candidate C is "bad for kids," is that an abuse? If an accountant says that candidate D's figures "just don't add up," is that an abuse?
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Old 3rd August 2018, 08:43 AM   #517
xjx388
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Originally Posted by dasmiller View Post
Is it just the medical profession? If, for example, a police union says that candidate B is "soft on crime," is that an abuse of their professional status? If a teachers' union announces that candidate C is "bad for kids," is that an abuse?
In both those scenarios, they are mere opinions on the candidate's policy. Now, if the police say: "We know how to recognize criminals and Candidate X is a criminal," despite the fact that X has never been a subject of a criminal investigation, that's an abuse. Similarly if a teacher says, "We know how to recognize pedophiles and Candidate X is a pedophile," well . . . I should think that's pretty obviously wrong.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 08:46 AM   #518
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Here is where the issue is: I have acknowledged that Trumpís behavior is not normal. I do not approve. He never should have been President. Heís a bad hombre. There is no thread in which I have defended Trumpís behavior, including this one.

I am solely concerned, in this thread, with the unprofessional and unethical conduct of the Yale group. What they are doing is wrong on a professional level. What Iím defending is the integrity of the medical profession. I donít want to normalize unprofessional conduct.

Can you acknowledge that?


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First, please clarify: I asked if you agree that Trump's behavior is "both abnormal and dangerous." Your response appears to be that you agree that it's abnormal. Does that imply that you don't agree that it's dangerous?
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Old 3rd August 2018, 09:05 AM   #519
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
First, please clarify: I asked if you agree that Trump's behavior is "both abnormal and dangerous." Your response appears to be that you agree that it's abnormal. Does that imply that you don't agree that it's dangerous?
Given that one of the things we're debating is the nature and significance of his abnormalities, and the degree of danger they present, your pressing for agreement on this point kinda seems like an attempt to summarily end the debate in your favor.

I will agree that Trump is abnormal and dangerous, but my agreement doesn't actually get you anywhere because we still don't agree on what those two things actually mean in practical terms.

Do you agree that at 5'9'', Isaiah Thomas is a pretty short?
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Old 3rd August 2018, 09:35 AM   #520
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Given that one of the things we're debating is the nature and significance of his abnormalities, and the degree of danger they present, your pressing for agreement on this point kinda seems like an attempt to summarily end the debate in your favor.

I will agree that Trump is abnormal and dangerous, but my agreement doesn't actually get you anywhere because we still don't agree on what those two things actually mean in practical terms.

Do you agree that at 5'9'', Isaiah Thomas is a pretty short?
The question of whether or not Trump is dangerous bears directly on the professional ethics issue that xjx is arguing. It also bears on the professional ethics of Republican congressmen who enable and protect him because, like you, they care more about getting far-right judges and tax cuts than they do about the damage Trump is doing -- and will continue to do! -- as a direct result of his malignant personality disorder.
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