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Tags Congressional hearings , donald trump , impeachment , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 19th November 2019, 12:41 PM   #2361
Hellbound
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I consider myself a Democrat who is liberal on some issues and less so on others. And while I believe we spend too much on the military and I don't always agree with military actions I do support the men and women who serve. More often than not I find them to be highly principled individuals.

And that I admire in anyone.
Exactly! Give me a principled adversary versus an unprincipled ally anyday.
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Last edited by Hellbound; 19th November 2019 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 19th November 2019, 12:46 PM   #2362
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
Exactly! Give me a principled adversary versus an unprincipled ally anyway.
I suppose it matters a bit what those principles are.

I'd certainly prefer, for instance, to live in a country run by people who mostly share my values, but occaisionally get lazy or selfish in small ways to one run by true believers in genocide who never waiver.

History is full of slaughter committed by folks with anshakable principles.
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Old 19th November 2019, 12:49 PM   #2363
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Bernard B. Kerik former commissioner of the New York City Department of Correction and New York City Police Commissioner, interior minister of the Iraqi Coalition Provisional Authority and convicted felon tweeted

Bernard B. Kerik
@BernardKerik
Every enlisted service member in the United States military just looked at this guy and said, what a dick! That arrogance is why he believed he could dictate foreign policy over President @realDonaldTrump
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Old 19th November 2019, 12:52 PM   #2364
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
I suppose it matters a bit what those principles are.

I'd certainly prefer, for instance, to live in a country run by people who mostly share my values, but occaisionally get lazy or selfish in small ways to one run by true believers in genocide who never waiver.

History is full of slaughter committed by folks with anshakable principles.
Most of the principles that the services hold dear are fine with me. About the only thing I don't respect is how religion is too often tied to service.
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Old 19th November 2019, 12:56 PM   #2365
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
I suppose it matters a bit what those principles are.

I'd certainly prefer, for instance, to live in a country run by people who mostly share my values, but occaisionally get lazy or selfish in small ways to one run by true believers in genocide who never waiver.

History is full of slaughter committed by folks with anshakable principles.


Nope, even then, I think I'd prefer an opponent who was unequivocal in their support for genocide. Would we be where we are today if our current batch of Wimp Nazis had the integrity to stand up and admit they'd just love the opportunity to commit genocide again, if we gave them the chance?
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Old 19th November 2019, 01:05 PM   #2366
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Nope, even then, I think I'd prefer an opponent who was unequivocal in their support for genocide. Would we be where we are today if our current batch of Wimp Nazis had the integrity to stand up and admit they'd just love the opportunity to commit genocide again, if we gave them the chance?
Yeah, pretty much my thinking. Someone with principles that stands up for them, at least there's never confusion about where you stand. And if your principles are completely incompatible, it's known up front. Of course there are degrees, but witty* one-liners are rarely amenable to detailed analysis, anyway

*-I have a right to my own opinions, dammit!
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Old 19th November 2019, 01:35 PM   #2367
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I'm watching Trump's sycophants, Nunes and Jordan, make complete asses of themselves repeating the same talking points and false accusations. They are truly pathetic.
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Old 19th November 2019, 01:42 PM   #2368
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I consider myself a Democrat who is liberal on some issues and less so on others. And while I believe we spend too much on the military and I don't always agree with military actions I do support the men and women who serve. More often than not I find them to be highly principled individuals.

And that I admire in anyone.
On the plus side look at all the pardoning Trump did to help those in uniform. Shows how pointless that whole illegal order and we take war crimes serious is just for show.
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Old 19th November 2019, 02:04 PM   #2369
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Kurt Volker sure is doing a good job of distancing himself from this whole goat rodeo. He was wise to resign.
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Old 19th November 2019, 02:12 PM   #2370
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
On the plus side look at all the pardoning Trump did to help those in uniform.
War criminals get pardons.

Truth-tellers Snitches get stitches.

Makes one wonder whether we're dealing with someone who values the raw exercise of power over all else.
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Old 19th November 2019, 02:13 PM   #2371
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
No tweets at all from Trump today. Just a barrage of retweets from various supporters praising him or repeating the no crime stuff.
Must be an interesting scene between trump and his minders.
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Old 19th November 2019, 02:25 PM   #2372
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Trump is apparently whining about Vindman wearing a uniform.
A uniform that Cadet Bone Spurs never earned.
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Old 19th November 2019, 02:28 PM   #2373
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The White House tweeted

The White House
@WhiteHouse
Tim Morrison, Alexander Vindman's former boss, testified in his deposition that he had concerns about Vindman's judgment.
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Old 19th November 2019, 02:37 PM   #2374
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
It seems, in my opinion, it must be that it triggers Trump, because it is another reminder that Trump avoided any military service. I think the contrast of his military uniform, and all that it represents, sticks in Trumps claw.
Hell it's also a reminder that Vindman can pass the toughest security clearance exams that no one in the Trump family could pass.
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Old 19th November 2019, 02:42 PM   #2375
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
Everyone who reads fake news thinks Trump will be leaving office.
I'm afraid he'll be leaving office even in your dream scenario in which he's declared president for life, because he will die.

Quote:
I don't pay any attention to fake news ...
And yet you believe you know what's being said in the non-Fox media. Presumably because you believe what Fox tells you is being said. In fact (and you won't get fact on Fox) the press is pretty much universally convinced that the Republicans won't convict whatever evidence is presented.
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Old 19th November 2019, 02:43 PM   #2376
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I think the Democrats missed an opportunity when the Reps showed faux incredulity about Lt. Col. Vindmann taking orders from a civilian (The President).

He's the goddamn Commander-in-Chief and ultimate military boss, and no one mentioned that.
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Old 19th November 2019, 02:48 PM   #2377
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
... Bill Taylor, Marie Yovanovich & [Lieutenant Colonel] Alexander Vindman ...
ftfy.
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Old 19th November 2019, 02:48 PM   #2378
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
The White House tweeted

The White House
@WhiteHouse
Tim Morrison, Alexander Vindman's former boss, testified in his deposition that he had concerns about Vindman's judgment.

Gym Jordan got owned:


Quote:
Referencing the previous testimony of NSC official Tim Morrison, Jordan noted that Morrison claimed he and others raised concerns about Vindman’s judgment and believed he may have leaked info to the press.

"Your former boss, Dr. [Fiona] Hill, had concerns about your judgment,” Jordan added. “Your colleagues had concerns about your judgment and your colleagues felt that there were times when you leaked information. Any idea why they have those impressions, Colonel Vindman?”

Vindman, meanwhile, pulled out the last performance evaluation that Hill had given him, dated this past July.

“Alex is a top 1% military officer and the best Army officer I have worked with in my 15 years of government service,” Vindman read from the document. “‘He is brilliant, unflappable, and exercises excellent judgment’—I’m sorry—‘Was exemplary during numerous visits,’ so forth and so on. I think you get the idea.”
https://www.thedailybeast.com/impeac...-attack-on-him
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Old 19th November 2019, 03:00 PM   #2379
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OMG...Idiot Nunes actually starts off his statement to Volker and Morrison that he has "bad news " for them; the TV ratings are way down" and not to take it "personally". He then says the people aren't buying the 'drug deal or whatever the Dems are cooking up".

He then follows that stupidity up with asking them if anyone at the WH had ever asked either to 'bribe or extort anyone or anything out of anyone".
LOL!

Twit. He really should stop embarrassing himself.
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Old 19th November 2019, 03:08 PM   #2380
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Originally Posted by portlandatheist View Post
Kurt Volker sure is doing a good job of distancing himself from this whole goat rodeo. He was wise to resign.
And he was supposed to be witness who would help Donnie. That blew up in the GOP face.
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Old 19th November 2019, 03:09 PM   #2381
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Seems to me the best thing for the GOP congress critters would be to admit what Trump did was wrong, maybe even a crime, but does not rise to the level of something he should be removed from office for.
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Old 19th November 2019, 03:11 PM   #2382
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
A uniform that Cadet Bone Spurs never earned.
If Mr. Trump had been given a uniform he'd have pawned it.

(At a local paper where I worked someone suggested giving their street-vendors uniform jackets because they "look like winos". Someone pointed out that if you gave them new jackets they'd swap them for wine. )
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Old 19th November 2019, 03:12 PM   #2383
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Seems to me the best thing for the GOP congress critters would be to admit what Trump did was wrong, maybe even a crime, but does not rise to the level of something he should be removed from office for.
I rather think that's where we're heading.
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Old 19th November 2019, 03:15 PM   #2384
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
I rather think that's where we're heading.
Where else would we have been heading? The general opinion at the beginning seemed to be that the Senate would never vote to remove. It doesn't seem like anything in the proceedings so far have changed that trajectory at all.
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Old 19th November 2019, 03:15 PM   #2385
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
OMG...Idiot Nunes actually starts off his statement to Volker and Morrison that he has "bad news " for them; the TV ratings are way down" and not to take it "personally". He then says the people aren't buying the 'drug deal or whatever the Dems are cooking up".
That was decidedly awkward.
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Old 19th November 2019, 03:24 PM   #2386
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
A link from the same page:
Trumpists to Alexander Vindman: ‘**** You for Your Service’

https://www.thedailybeast.com/house-...ticles&via=rss
(this link will be broken because of a bad word but should be easy to fix)
Rick Wilson is brutal.

Last edited by zooterkin; 20th November 2019 at 02:31 AM.
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Old 19th November 2019, 03:24 PM   #2387
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Where else would we have been heading? The general opinion at the beginning seemed to be that the Senate would never vote to remove. It doesn't seem like anything in the proceedings so far have changed that trajectory at all.
That's only because the Republicans don't care about corruption among their ranks. I haven't heard a single Republican ask any questions about the substance of the testimonies. They DON'T care that the President extorted Ukraine with US military aid for his own political purposes.

Edited by Agatha:  Edited to remove personalisation
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Old 19th November 2019, 03:28 PM   #2388
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Originally Posted by portlandatheist View Post
A link from the same page:
Trumpists to Alexander Vindman: ‘**** You for Your Service’

https://www.thedailybeast.com/house-...ticles&via=rss
(this link will be broken because of a bad word but should be easy to fix)
Rick Wilson is brutal.
Twitter is full of Trump supporters slling for Vindman to betried for treason or denigrating him as not a 'real' soldier despite his service record.

Last edited by kmortis; 20th November 2019 at 03:58 AM.
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Old 19th November 2019, 03:29 PM   #2389
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
That's only because the Republicans don't care about corruption among their ranks. I haven't heard a single Republican ask any questions about the substance of the testimonies. They DON'T care that the President extorted Ukraine with US military aid for his own political purposes.

And obviously, you don't either.
Edited by Agatha:  Edited to remove personalisation
what does this have to do with the post you're replying to?

Last edited by Agatha; 19th November 2019 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 19th November 2019, 03:34 PM   #2390
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[mod] Stop bickering, and please concentrate your posts, your energy and your arguments on people who are not members of this forum. Treat each other with civility. [/mod]
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Old 19th November 2019, 03:37 PM   #2391
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Edited by Agatha:  Edited to remove personalisation
what does this have to do with the post you're replying to?
The argument in your post is this isn't changing anything. So I'd say it absolutely is addressing the post
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Old 19th November 2019, 03:59 PM   #2392
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Old 19th November 2019, 04:10 PM   #2393
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I find the hearings to be ridiculous. Mostly because the Republicans have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in good faith. They just smear every single person who testifies. Either that or play the game of trying to find out who the whistleblower is.

Vindman was about as credible as someone could be. Congressman Jordan tried to smear Vindman saying that his boss Fiona Hill questioned his judgement. Vindman then read Hill's work evaluation of Vindman where she called him the finest military officer she had ever worked with.
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Old 19th November 2019, 04:11 PM   #2394
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Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
Vindman just now saying why he felt that his dad shouldn't worry because Vindman was challenging the most powerful person in the world: "Because this is America. . . . Truth matters." Hope I got that right.

He's stating that from the perspective of someone with a military background. For liberals like me old enough to remember how little the military was respected in the 60s and 70s, one silver lining in the s***-storm that is this presidency is that liberals might find some common cause with that military perspective.
Probably more about not being in the USSR than anything to do with feeling threatened by Jane Fonda and those anti-soldier hippies that existed mostly in fiction.

Liberal boomers have done nothing since Vietnam but fall over themselves trying to show support for the troops and ceding the moral high ground to those willing to exploit their pathological need to be apologetic about opposing the Vietnam war.

They can stop now. I mean, you would think Max Cleland would have been enough to get them to realize they are being played, but here we are with the perception that it is them that are being anti-military.
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Old 19th November 2019, 04:13 PM   #2395
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I'm watching Trump's sycophants, Nunes and Jordan, make complete asses of themselves repeating the same talking points and false accusations. They are truly pathetic.
They certainly sound like pathetic losers.
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Old 19th November 2019, 04:18 PM   #2396
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I find the hearings to be ridiculous. Mostly because the Republicans have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in good faith. They just smear every single person who testifies. Either that or play the game of trying to find out who the whistleblower is.

Vindman was about as credible as someone could be. Congressman Jordan tried to smear Vindman saying that his boss Fiona Hill questioned his judgement. Vindman then read Hill's work evaluation of Vindman where she called him the finest military officer she had ever worked with.
...and if this sees the light of day in right wing media it will just be Jordan asking that question with a misleading reaction shot. It is all raw footage to them. Looking stupid in real time is irrelevant.
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Old 19th November 2019, 04:20 PM   #2397
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Why isn't Giuliani being questioned? Isn't his official position as Trump's personal lawyer, not as a part of the Trump administration?
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Old 19th November 2019, 04:34 PM   #2398
Craig4
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Twitter is full of Trump supporters slling for Vindman to betried for treason or denigrating him as not a 'real' soldier despite his service record.
Just more proof (as if we needed any) that Trump supporters just aren't real Americans. Their kind just aren't as good as those of us who remained loyal to the nation.
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Old 19th November 2019, 05:03 PM   #2399
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So Rudi is going under the bus? Both sides agree on that?
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Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
“Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos
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Old 19th November 2019, 05:10 PM   #2400
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
OMG...Idiot Nunes actually starts off his statement to Volker and Morrison that he has "bad news " for them; the TV ratings are way down" and not to take it "personally". He then says the people aren't buying the 'drug deal or whatever the Dems are cooking up".

He then follows that stupidity up with asking them if anyone at the WH had ever asked either to 'bribe or extort anyone or anything out of anyone".
LOL!

Twit. He really should stop embarrassing himself.
Again, this is the guy suing a fake cow. And claiming to represent California, where he hasn't really lived in some time. All his farming interests tare in Iowa these days. You know, Steve King country.
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