House Impeachment Inquiry - Page 60

Hellbound · 19th November 2019, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I consider myself a Democrat who is liberal on some issues and less so on others. And while I believe we spend too much on the military and I don't always agree with military actions I do support the men and women who serve. More often than not I find them to be highly principled individuals.

And that I admire in anyone.

Exactly! Give me a principled adversary versus an unprincipled ally anyday.

Cavemonster · 19th November 2019, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Hellbound

Exactly! Give me a principled adversary versus an unprincipled ally anyway.

I suppose it matters a bit what those principles are.

I'd certainly prefer, for instance, to live in a country run by people who mostly share my values, but occaisionally get lazy or selfish in small ways to one run by true believers in genocide who never waiver.

History is full of slaughter committed by folks with anshakable principles.

Captain_Swoop · 19th November 2019, 12:49 PM

Bernard B. Kerik former commissioner of the New York City Department of Correction and New York City Police Commissioner, interior minister of the Iraqi Coalition Provisional Authority and convicted felon tweeted

Bernard B. Kerik
@BernardKerik
Every enlisted service member in the United States military just looked at this guy and said, what a dick! That arrogance is why he believed he could dictate foreign policy over President @realDonaldTrump

acbytesla · 19th November 2019, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by Cavemonster

I suppose it matters a bit what those principles are.

I'd certainly prefer, for instance, to live in a country run by people who mostly share my values, but occaisionally get lazy or selfish in small ways to one run by true believers in genocide who never waiver.

History is full of slaughter committed by folks with anshakable principles.

Most of the principles that the services hold dear are fine with me. About the only thing I don't respect is how religion is too often tied to service.

Horatius · 19th November 2019, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Cavemonster

I suppose it matters a bit what those principles are.

I'd certainly prefer, for instance, to live in a country run by people who mostly share my values, but occaisionally get lazy or selfish in small ways to one run by true believers in genocide who never waiver.

History is full of slaughter committed by folks with anshakable principles.

Nope, even then, I think I'd prefer an opponent who was unequivocal in their support for genocide. Would we be where we are today if our current batch of Wimp Nazis had the integrity to stand up and admit they'd just love the opportunity to commit genocide again, if we gave them the chance?

Hellbound · 19th November 2019, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Horatius

Nope, even then, I think I'd prefer an opponent who was unequivocal in their support for genocide. Would we be where we are today if our current batch of Wimp Nazis had the integrity to stand up and admit they'd just love the opportunity to commit genocide again, if we gave them the chance?

Yeah, pretty much my thinking. Someone with principles that stands up for them, at least there's never confusion about where you stand. And if your principles are completely incompatible, it's known up front. Of course there are degrees, but witty* one-liners are rarely amenable to detailed analysis, anyway

*-I have a right to my own opinions, dammit!

Stacyhs · 19th November 2019, 01:35 PM

I'm watching Trump's sycophants, Nunes and Jordan, make complete asses of themselves repeating the same talking points and false accusations. They are truly pathetic.

ponderingturtle · 19th November 2019, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I consider myself a Democrat who is liberal on some issues and less so on others. And while I believe we spend too much on the military and I don't always agree with military actions I do support the men and women who serve. More often than not I find them to be highly principled individuals.

And that I admire in anyone.

On the plus side look at all the pardoning Trump did to help those in uniform. Shows how pointless that whole illegal order and we take war crimes serious is just for show.

portlandatheist · 19th November 2019, 02:04 PM

Kurt Volker sure is doing a good job of distancing himself from this whole goat rodeo. He was wise to resign.

d4m10n · 19th November 2019, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

On the plus side look at all the pardoning Trump did to help those in uniform.

War criminals get pardons.

~~Truth-tellers~~ Snitches get stitches.

Makes one wonder whether we're dealing with someone who values the raw exercise of power over all else.

a_unique_person · 19th November 2019, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

No tweets at all from Trump today. Just a barrage of retweets from various supporters praising him or repeating the no crime stuff.

Must be an interesting scene between trump and his minders.

Stacyhs · 19th November 2019, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

Trump is apparently whining about Vindman wearing a uniform.

A uniform that Cadet Bone Spurs never earned.

Captain_Swoop · 19th November 2019, 02:28 PM

The White House tweeted

The White House
@WhiteHouse
Tim Morrison, Alexander Vindman's former boss, testified in his deposition that he had concerns about Vindman's judgment.

slyjoe · 19th November 2019, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by wasapi

It seems, in my opinion, it must be that it triggers Trump, because it is another reminder that Trump avoided any military service. I think the contrast of his military uniform, and all that it represents, sticks in Trumps claw.

Hell it's also a reminder that Vindman can pass the toughest security clearance exams that no one in the Trump family could pass.

CapelDodger · 19th November 2019, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby

Everyone who reads fake news thinks Trump will be leaving office.

I'm afraid he'll be leaving office even in your dream scenario in which he's declared president for life, because he will die.

Quote:

I don't pay any attention to fake news ...

And yet you believe you know what's being said in the non-Fox media. Presumably because you believe what Fox tells you is being said. In fact (and you won't get fact on Fox) the press is pretty much universally convinced that the Republicans won't convict whatever evidence is presented.

alfaniner · 19th November 2019, 02:43 PM

I think the Democrats missed an opportunity when the Reps showed faux incredulity about Lt. Col. Vindmann taking orders from a civilian (The President).

He's the goddamn Commander-in-Chief and ultimate military boss, and no one mentioned that.

CapelDodger · 19th November 2019, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by smartcooky

... Bill Taylor, Marie Yovanovich & [Lieutenant Colonel] Alexander Vindman ...

ftfy.

Stacyhs · 19th November 2019, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

The White House tweeted

The White House
@WhiteHouse
Tim Morrison, Alexander Vindman's former boss, testified in his deposition that he had concerns about Vindman's judgment.

Gym Jordan got owned:

Quote:

Referencing the previous testimony of NSC official Tim Morrison, Jordan noted that Morrison claimed he and others raised concerns about Vindman’s judgment and believed he may have leaked info to the press.

"Your former boss, Dr. [Fiona] Hill, had concerns about your judgment,” Jordan added. “Your colleagues had concerns about your judgment and your colleagues felt that there were times when you leaked information. Any idea why they have those impressions, Colonel Vindman?”

Vindman, meanwhile, pulled out the last performance evaluation that Hill had given him, dated this past July.

“Alex is a top 1% military officer and the best Army officer I have worked with in my 15 years of government service,” Vindman read from the document. “‘He is brilliant, unflappable, and exercises excellent judgment’—I’m sorry—‘Was exemplary during numerous visits,’ so forth and so on. I think you get the idea.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/impeac...-attack-on-him

Stacyhs · 19th November 2019, 03:00 PM

OMG...Idiot Nunes actually starts off his statement to Volker and Morrison that he has "bad news " for them; the TV ratings are way down" and not to take it "personally". He then says the people aren't buying the 'drug deal or whatever the Dems are cooking up".

He then follows that stupidity up with asking them if anyone at the WH had ever asked either to 'bribe or extort anyone or anything out of anyone".
LOL!

Twit. He really should stop embarrassing himself.

dudalb · 19th November 2019, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by portlandatheist

Kurt Volker sure is doing a good job of distancing himself from this whole goat rodeo. He was wise to resign.

And he was supposed to be witness who would help Donnie. That blew up in the GOP face.

dudalb · 19th November 2019, 03:09 PM

Seems to me the best thing for the GOP congress critters would be to admit what Trump did was wrong, maybe even a crime, but does not rise to the level of something he should be removed from office for.

CapelDodger · 19th November 2019, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

A uniform that Cadet Bone Spurs never earned.

If Mr. Trump had been given a uniform he'd have pawned it.

(At a local paper where I worked someone suggested giving their street-vendors uniform jackets because they "look like winos". Someone pointed out that if you gave them new jackets they'd swap them for wine.

)

CapelDodger · 19th November 2019, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Seems to me the best thing for the GOP congress critters would be to admit what Trump did was wrong, maybe even a crime, but does not rise to the level of something he should be removed from office for.

I rather think that's where we're heading.

theprestige · 19th November 2019, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by CapelDodger

I rather think that's where we're heading.

Where else would we have been heading? The general opinion at the beginning seemed to be that the Senate would never vote to remove. It doesn't seem like anything in the proceedings so far have changed that trajectory at all.

Fast Eddie B · 19th November 2019, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

OMG...Idiot Nunes actually starts off his statement to Volker and Morrison that he has "bad news " for them; the TV ratings are way down" and not to take it "personally". He then says the people aren't buying the 'drug deal or whatever the Dems are cooking up".

That was decidedly awkward.

portlandatheist · 19th November 2019, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Gym Jordan got owned:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/impeac...-attack-on-him

A link from the same page:
Trumpists to Alexander Vindman: ‘**** You for Your Service’

https://www.thedailybeast.com/house-...ticles&via=rss
(this link will be broken because of a bad word but should be easy to fix)
Rick Wilson is brutal.

acbytesla · 19th November 2019, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

Where else would we have been heading? The general opinion at the beginning seemed to be that the Senate would never vote to remove. It doesn't seem like anything in the proceedings so far have changed that trajectory at all.

That's only because the Republicans don't care about corruption among their ranks. I haven't heard a single Republican ask any questions about the substance of the testimonies. They DON'T care that the President extorted Ukraine with US military aid for his own political purposes.

Edited by Agatha:

Edited to remove personalisation

Captain_Swoop · 19th November 2019, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by portlandatheist

A link from the same page:
Trumpists to Alexander Vindman: ‘**** You for Your Service’

https://www.thedailybeast.com/house-...ticles&via=rss
(this link will be broken because of a bad word but should be easy to fix)
Rick Wilson is brutal.

Twitter is full of Trump supporters slling for Vindman to betried for treason or denigrating him as not a 'real' soldier despite his service record.

theprestige · 19th November 2019, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

That's only because the Republicans don't care about corruption among their ranks. I haven't heard a single Republican ask any questions about the substance of the testimonies. They DON'T care that the President extorted Ukraine with US military aid for his own political purposes.

And obviously, you don't either.

Edited by Agatha:

Edited to remove personalisation

what does this have to do with the post you're replying to?

Agatha · 19th November 2019, 03:34 PM

[mod] Stop bickering, and please concentrate your posts, your energy and your arguments on people who are not members of this forum. Treat each other with civility. [/mod]

acbytesla · 19th November 2019, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

Edited by Agatha:

Edited to remove personalisation

what does this have to do with the post you're replying to?

The argument in your post is this isn't changing anything. So I'd say it absolutely is addressing the post

Childlike Empress · 19th November 2019, 03:59 PM

acbytesla · 19th November 2019, 04:10 PM

I find the hearings to be ridiculous. Mostly because the Republicans have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in good faith. They just smear every single person who testifies. Either that or play the game of trying to find out who the whistleblower is.

Vindman was about as credible as someone could be. Congressman Jordan tried to smear Vindman saying that his boss Fiona Hill questioned his judgement. Vindman then read Hill's work evaluation of Vindman where she called him the finest military officer she had ever worked with.

Suddenly · 19th November 2019, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by Paul2

Vindman just now saying why he felt that his dad shouldn't worry because Vindman was challenging the most powerful person in the world: "Because this is America. . . . Truth matters." Hope I got that right.

He's stating that from the perspective of someone with a military background. For liberals like me old enough to remember how little the military was respected in the 60s and 70s, one silver lining in the s***-storm that is this presidency is that liberals might find some common cause with that military perspective.

Probably more about not being in the USSR than anything to do with feeling threatened by Jane Fonda and those anti-soldier hippies that existed mostly in fiction.

Liberal boomers have done nothing since Vietnam but fall over themselves trying to show support for the troops and ceding the moral high ground to those willing to exploit their pathological need to be apologetic about opposing the Vietnam war.

They can stop now. I mean, you would think Max Cleland would have been enough to get them to realize they are being played, but here we are with the perception that it is them that are being anti-military.

The_Animus · 19th November 2019, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

I'm watching Trump's sycophants, Nunes and Jordan, make complete asses of themselves repeating the same talking points and false accusations. They are truly pathetic.

They certainly sound like pathetic losers.

Suddenly · 19th November 2019, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I find the hearings to be ridiculous. Mostly because the Republicans have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in good faith. They just smear every single person who testifies. Either that or play the game of trying to find out who the whistleblower is.

Vindman was about as credible as someone could be. Congressman Jordan tried to smear Vindman saying that his boss Fiona Hill questioned his judgement. Vindman then read Hill's work evaluation of Vindman where she called him the finest military officer she had ever worked with.

...and if this sees the light of day in right wing media it will just be Jordan asking that question with a misleading reaction shot. It is all raw footage to them. Looking stupid in real time is irrelevant.

a_unique_person · 19th November 2019, 04:20 PM

Why isn't Giuliani being questioned? Isn't his official position as Trump's personal lawyer, not as a part of the Trump administration?

Craig4 · 19th November 2019, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Twitter is full of Trump supporters slling for Vindman to betried for treason or denigrating him as not a 'real' soldier despite his service record.

Just more proof (as if we needed any) that Trump supporters just aren't real Americans. Their kind just aren't as good as those of us who remained loyal to the nation.

a_unique_person · 19th November 2019, 05:03 PM

So Rudi is going under the bus? Both sides agree on that?

Trebuchet · 19th November 2019, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

OMG...Idiot Nunes actually starts off his statement to Volker and Morrison that he has "bad news " for them; the TV ratings are way down" and not to take it "personally". He then says the people aren't buying the 'drug deal or whatever the Dems are cooking up".

He then follows that stupidity up with asking them if anyone at the WH had ever asked either to 'bribe or extort anyone or anything out of anyone".
LOL!

Twit. He really should stop embarrassing himself.

Again, this is the guy suing a fake cow. And claiming to represent California, where he hasn't really lived in some time. All his farming interests tare in Iowa these days. You know, Steve King country.

19th November 2019, 12:41 PM	#2361
Hellbound Merchant of Doom Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Not in Hell, but I can see it from here on a clear day... Posts: 14,050	Originally Posted by acbytesla I consider myself a Democrat who is liberal on some issues and less so on others. And while I believe we spend too much on the military and I don't always agree with military actions I do support the men and women who serve. More often than not I find them to be highly principled individuals. And that I admire in anyone. Exactly! Give me a principled adversary versus an unprincipled ally anyday.
	__________________ History does not always repeat itself. Sometimes it just yells "Can't you remember anything I told you?" and lets fly with a club. - John w. Campbell Last edited by Hellbound; 19th November 2019 at 12:43 PM.

19th November 2019, 12:46 PM	#2362
Cavemonster Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 5,796	Originally Posted by Hellbound Exactly! Give me a principled adversary versus an unprincipled ally anyway. I suppose it matters a bit what those principles are. I'd certainly prefer, for instance, to live in a country run by people who mostly share my values, but occaisionally get lazy or selfish in small ways to one run by true believers in genocide who never waiver. History is full of slaughter committed by folks with anshakable principles.
Cavemonster Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 5,796	__________________ The weakness of all Utopias is this, ... They first assume that no man will want more than his share, and then are very ingenious in explaining whether his share will be delivered by motorcar or balloon. -G.K. CHESTERTON

19th November 2019, 12:52 PM	#2364
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 23,279	Originally Posted by Cavemonster I suppose it matters a bit what those principles are. I'd certainly prefer, for instance, to live in a country run by people who mostly share my values, but occaisionally get lazy or selfish in small ways to one run by true believers in genocide who never waiver. History is full of slaughter committed by folks with anshakable principles. Most of the principles that the services hold dear are fine with me. About the only thing I don't respect is how religion is too often tied to service.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

19th November 2019, 12:56 PM	#2365
Horatius NWO Kitty Wrangler Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 27,426	Originally Posted by Cavemonster I suppose it matters a bit what those principles are. I'd certainly prefer, for instance, to live in a country run by people who mostly share my values, but occaisionally get lazy or selfish in small ways to one run by true believers in genocide who never waiver. History is full of slaughter committed by folks with anshakable principles. Nope, even then, I think I'd prefer an opponent who was unequivocal in their support for genocide. Would we be where we are today if our current batch of Wimp Nazis had the integrity to stand up and admit they'd just love the opportunity to commit genocide again, if we gave them the chance?
	__________________ Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd

19th November 2019, 01:05 PM	#2366
Hellbound Merchant of Doom Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Not in Hell, but I can see it from here on a clear day... Posts: 14,050	Originally Posted by Horatius Nope, even then, I think I'd prefer an opponent who was unequivocal in their support for genocide. Would we be where we are today if our current batch of Wimp Nazis had the integrity to stand up and admit they'd just love the opportunity to commit genocide again, if we gave them the chance? Yeah, pretty much my thinking. Someone with principles that stands up for them, at least there's never confusion about where you stand. And if your principles are completely incompatible, it's known up front. Of course there are degrees, but witty* one-liners are rarely amenable to detailed analysis, anyway *-I have a right to my own opinions, dammit!
	__________________ History does not always repeat itself. Sometimes it just yells "Can't you remember anything I told you?" and lets fly with a club. - John w. Campbell

19th November 2019, 12:49 PM	#2363
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 22,843	Bernard B. Kerik former commissioner of the New York City Department of Correction and New York City Police Commissioner, interior minister of the Iraqi Coalition Provisional Authority and convicted felon tweeted Bernard B. Kerik @BernardKerik Every enlisted service member in the United States military just looked at this guy and said, what a dick! That arrogance is why he believed he could dictate foreign policy over President @realDonaldTrump

19th November 2019, 01:35 PM	#2367
Stacyhs Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 9,914	I'm watching Trump's sycophants, Nunes and Jordan, make complete asses of themselves repeating the same talking points and false accusations. They are truly pathetic.
Stacyhs Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 9,914

19th November 2019, 01:42 PM	#2368
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 48,312	Originally Posted by acbytesla I consider myself a Democrat who is liberal on some issues and less so on others. And while I believe we spend too much on the military and I don't always agree with military actions I do support the men and women who serve. More often than not I find them to be highly principled individuals. And that I admire in anyone. On the plus side look at all the pardoning Trump did to help those in uniform. Shows how pointless that whole illegal order and we take war crimes serious is just for show.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

19th November 2019, 02:04 PM	#2369
portlandatheist Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,216	Kurt Volker sure is doing a good job of distancing himself from this whole goat rodeo. He was wise to resign.

19th November 2019, 02:12 PM	#2370
d4m10n Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Mounts Farm Posts: 4,390	Originally Posted by ponderingturtle On the plus side look at all the pardoning Trump did to help those in uniform. War criminals get pardons. ~~Truth-tellers~~ Snitches get stitches. Makes one wonder whether we're dealing with someone who values the raw exercise of power over all else.
	__________________ I'm a happy SINner on the Skeptic Ink Network! Background Probability: Against Irrationality, Innumeracy, and Ignobility http://skepticink.com/backgroundprobability/ Last edited by d4m10n; 19th November 2019 at 02:13 PM.

19th November 2019, 02:13 PM	#2371
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open. Posts: 41,363	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop No tweets at all from Trump today. Just a barrage of retweets from various supporters praising him or repeating the no crime stuff. Must be an interesting scene between trump and his minders.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos

19th November 2019, 02:25 PM	#2372
Stacyhs Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 9,914	Originally Posted by Trebuchet Trump is apparently whining about Vindman wearing a uniform. A uniform that Cadet Bone Spurs never earned.
Stacyhs Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 9,914

19th November 2019, 02:28 PM	#2373
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 22,843	The White House tweeted The White House @WhiteHouse Tim Morrison, Alexander Vindman's former boss, testified in his deposition that he had concerns about Vindman's judgment.

19th November 2019, 02:37 PM	#2374
slyjoe Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Near Harmonica Virgins Posts: 1,743	Originally Posted by wasapi It seems, in my opinion, it must be that it triggers Trump, because it is another reminder that Trump avoided any military service. I think the contrast of his military uniform, and all that it represents, sticks in Trumps claw. Hell it's also a reminder that Vindman can pass the toughest security clearance exams that no one in the Trump family could pass.
	__________________ "You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade

19th November 2019, 02:42 PM	#2375
CapelDodger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cardiff, South Wales Posts: 24,619	Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby Everyone who reads fake news thinks Trump will be leaving office. I'm afraid he'll be leaving office even in your dream scenario in which he's declared president for life, because he will die. Quote: I don't pay any attention to fake news ... And yet you believe you know what's being said in the non-Fox media. Presumably because you believe what Fox tells you is being said. In fact (and you won't get fact on Fox) the press is pretty much universally convinced that the Republicans won't convict whatever evidence is presented.
	__________________ It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150

19th November 2019, 02:43 PM	#2376
alfaniner Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 21,051	I think the Democrats missed an opportunity when the Reps showed faux incredulity about Lt. Col. Vindmann taking orders from a civilian (The President). He's the goddamn Commander-in-Chief and ultimate military boss, and no one mentioned that.
	__________________ Science is self-correcting. Woo is self-contradicting.

19th November 2019, 02:48 PM	#2377
CapelDodger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cardiff, South Wales Posts: 24,619	Originally Posted by smartcooky ... Bill Taylor, Marie Yovanovich & [Lieutenant Colonel] Alexander Vindman ... ftfy.
	__________________ It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150

19th November 2019, 02:48 PM	#2378
Stacyhs Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 9,914	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop The White House tweeted The White House @WhiteHouse Tim Morrison, Alexander Vindman's former boss, testified in his deposition that he had concerns about Vindman's judgment. Gym Jordan got owned: Quote: Referencing the previous testimony of NSC official Tim Morrison, Jordan noted that Morrison claimed he and others raised concerns about Vindman’s judgment and believed he may have leaked info to the press. "Your former boss, Dr. [Fiona] Hill, had concerns about your judgment,” Jordan added. “Your colleagues had concerns about your judgment and your colleagues felt that there were times when you leaked information. Any idea why they have those impressions, Colonel Vindman?” Vindman, meanwhile, pulled out the last performance evaluation that Hill had given him, dated this past July. “Alex is a top 1% military officer and the best Army officer I have worked with in my 15 years of government service,” Vindman read from the document. “‘He is brilliant, unflappable, and exercises excellent judgment’—I’m sorry—‘Was exemplary during numerous visits,’ so forth and so on. I think you get the idea.” https://www.thedailybeast.com/impeac...-attack-on-him
Stacyhs Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 9,914

19th November 2019, 03:00 PM	#2379
Stacyhs Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 9,914	OMG...Idiot Nunes actually starts off his statement to Volker and Morrison that he has "bad news " for them; the TV ratings are way down" and not to take it "personally". He then says the people aren't buying the 'drug deal or whatever the Dems are cooking up". He then follows that stupidity up with asking them if anyone at the WH had ever asked either to 'bribe or extort anyone or anything out of anyone". LOL! Twit. He really should stop embarrassing himself.
Stacyhs Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 9,914

19th November 2019, 03:08 PM	#2380
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 46,271	Originally Posted by portlandatheist Kurt Volker sure is doing a good job of distancing himself from this whole goat rodeo. He was wise to resign. And he was supposed to be witness who would help Donnie. That blew up in the GOP face.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

19th November 2019, 03:09 PM	#2381
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 46,271	Seems to me the best thing for the GOP congress critters would be to admit what Trump did was wrong, maybe even a crime, but does not rise to the level of something he should be removed from office for.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

19th November 2019, 03:11 PM	#2382
CapelDodger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cardiff, South Wales Posts: 24,619	Originally Posted by Stacyhs A uniform that Cadet Bone Spurs never earned. If Mr. Trump had been given a uniform he'd have pawned it. (At a local paper where I worked someone suggested giving their street-vendors uniform jackets because they "look like winos". Someone pointed out that if you gave them new jackets they'd swap them for wine. )
	__________________ It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150

19th November 2019, 03:12 PM	#2383
CapelDodger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cardiff, South Wales Posts: 24,619	Originally Posted by dudalb Seems to me the best thing for the GOP congress critters would be to admit what Trump did was wrong, maybe even a crime, but does not rise to the level of something he should be removed from office for. I rather think that's where we're heading.
	__________________ It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150

19th November 2019, 03:15 PM	#2384
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 39,788	Originally Posted by CapelDodger I rather think that's where we're heading. Where else would we have been heading? The general opinion at the beginning seemed to be that the Senate would never vote to remove. It doesn't seem like anything in the proceedings so far have changed that trajectory at all.

19th November 2019, 03:15 PM	#2385
Fast Eddie B Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Mineral Bluff, GA Posts: 5,907	Originally Posted by Stacyhs OMG...Idiot Nunes actually starts off his statement to Volker and Morrison that he has "bad news " for them; the TV ratings are way down" and not to take it "personally". He then says the people aren't buying the 'drug deal or whatever the Dems are cooking up". That was decidedly awkward.
	__________________ “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that...I will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” - President Donald J. Trump, January 20, 2017. "And it's, frankly, disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write. And people should look into it." - President Donald J. Trump, October 11, 2017.

19th November 2019, 03:24 PM	#2386
portlandatheist Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,216	Originally Posted by Stacyhs Gym Jordan got owned: https://www.thedailybeast.com/impeac...-attack-on-him A link from the same page: Trumpists to Alexander Vindman: ‘**** You for Your Service’ https://www.thedailybeast.com/house-...ticles&via=rss (this link will be broken because of a bad word but should be easy to fix) Rick Wilson is brutal.
	Last edited by zooterkin; 20th November 2019 at 02:31 AM.

19th November 2019, 03:28 PM	#2388
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 22,843	Originally Posted by portlandatheist A link from the same page: Trumpists to Alexander Vindman: ‘**** You for Your Service’ https://www.thedailybeast.com/house-...ticles&via=rss (this link will be broken because of a bad word but should be easy to fix) Rick Wilson is brutal. Twitter is full of Trump supporters slling for Vindman to betried for treason or denigrating him as not a 'real' soldier despite his service record.
	Last edited by kmortis; 20th November 2019 at 03:58 AM.

19th November 2019, 03:34 PM	#2390
Agatha Winking at the Moon Moderator Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: UK Posts: 13,077	[mod] Stop bickering, and please concentrate your posts, your energy and your arguments on people who are not members of this forum. Treat each other with civility. [/mod]
	__________________ Why can't you be more like Agatha? - Loss Leader

19th November 2019, 03:59 PM	#2392
Childlike Empress Ewige Blumenkraft Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ivory Tower Posts: 17,687
	__________________ Audiatur et altera pars

19th November 2019, 04:10 PM	#2393
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 23,279	I find the hearings to be ridiculous. Mostly because the Republicans have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in good faith. They just smear every single person who testifies. Either that or play the game of trying to find out who the whistleblower is. Vindman was about as credible as someone could be. Congressman Jordan tried to smear Vindman saying that his boss Fiona Hill questioned his judgement. Vindman then read Hill's work evaluation of Vindman where she called him the finest military officer she had ever worked with.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

19th November 2019, 04:11 PM	#2394
Suddenly No Punting Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Montani Semper Liberi Posts: 3,270	Originally Posted by Paul2 Vindman just now saying why he felt that his dad shouldn't worry because Vindman was challenging the most powerful person in the world: "Because this is America. . . . Truth matters." Hope I got that right. He's stating that from the perspective of someone with a military background. For liberals like me old enough to remember how little the military was respected in the 60s and 70s, one silver lining in the s***-storm that is this presidency is that liberals might find some common cause with that military perspective. Probably more about not being in the USSR than anything to do with feeling threatened by Jane Fonda and those anti-soldier hippies that existed mostly in fiction. Liberal boomers have done nothing since Vietnam but fall over themselves trying to show support for the troops and ceding the moral high ground to those willing to exploit their pathological need to be apologetic about opposing the Vietnam war. They can stop now. I mean, you would think Max Cleland would have been enough to get them to realize they are being played, but here we are with the perception that it is them that are being anti-military.

19th November 2019, 04:13 PM	#2395
The_Animus Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,091	Originally Posted by Stacyhs I'm watching Trump's sycophants, Nunes and Jordan, make complete asses of themselves repeating the same talking points and false accusations. They are truly pathetic. They certainly sound like pathetic losers.
The_Animus Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,091	__________________ Don't feed the trolls. Just ignore them.

19th November 2019, 04:18 PM	#2396
Suddenly No Punting Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Montani Semper Liberi Posts: 3,270	Originally Posted by acbytesla I find the hearings to be ridiculous. Mostly because the Republicans have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in good faith. They just smear every single person who testifies. Either that or play the game of trying to find out who the whistleblower is. Vindman was about as credible as someone could be. Congressman Jordan tried to smear Vindman saying that his boss Fiona Hill questioned his judgement. Vindman then read Hill's work evaluation of Vindman where she called him the finest military officer she had ever worked with. ...and if this sees the light of day in right wing media it will just be Jordan asking that question with a misleading reaction shot. It is all raw footage to them. Looking stupid in real time is irrelevant.

19th November 2019, 04:20 PM	#2397
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open. Posts: 41,363	Why isn't Giuliani being questioned? Isn't his official position as Trump's personal lawyer, not as a part of the Trump administration?
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos

19th November 2019, 04:34 PM	#2398
Craig4 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Alexandria, VA Home to the Deep State. Posts: 19,288	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Twitter is full of Trump supporters slling for Vindman to betried for treason or denigrating him as not a 'real' soldier despite his service record. Just more proof (as if we needed any) that Trump supporters just aren't real Americans. Their kind just aren't as good as those of us who remained loyal to the nation.
	__________________ A MAGA hat = a Swastika arm band. A vote for Trump is a vote for treason.