Trump to visit Denmark on Sept. 2

[dann]

Originally Posted by erlando

Originally Posted by Baylor

Why should the US support a suicidal country? Scandinavia belongs to immigrants, according to its leaders. Let China colonize it then, and let the unhappy people die off.

What the hell are you talking about?

He might be talking about this, but he probably isn't: Scandinavia's reign as the happiest place on Earth is ending (Wired, July 31, 2019)

It makes me very happy that Baylor thinks that we can blame it on the Chinese!

[TheSupermeerkat]

Originally Posted by erlando

What the hell are you talking about?

I think Baylor might have forgotten he's not posting on /pol/ or his trying to impressive us with his Edgelordliness.

[dann]

Originally Posted by erlando

I hope someone borrows the baby balloon from the londoners and that a lot of danes show that fat orange clown that he is definitely not welcomed by all.

We have our very own version, an ad on the side of busses in Copenhagen in 2016.
I think we should revive it on this occasion:

Denmark Rolls Its Eyes at the U.S. Election with This Hilarious Anti-Trump Bus Ad (Oct. 27, 2016)
This Danish ad throws Donald Trump under the bus (CNN, Oct. 28, 2016)
Denmark's Eye-Rolling Donald Trump Bus Is Advertising at Its Best (Autoweek, Oct. 28, 2019)

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

[Armitage72]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Apathy is an empty gesture.

Demonstrations are not.

The acceptability of demonstrations depends on who you are protesting. Several years ago, Ted Nugent appeared on Fox News and called modern college students lazy and apathetic because they weren't in the streets protesting President Obama and fighting with the police, like students did when he was their age. He then conceded that he hadn't actually done any protesting himself when he was their age, but that's just a detail.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by AnonyMoose

Those poor Danes.


They have my thoughts and prayers.

Yeah, traffic always gets messed up when a head of state is in town. Having had to deal with that once or twice myself, I extend my sympathies to the residents of Copenhagen.

Not sure about the rest of the country, though. Is Denmark really that small? Your concern seems a bit hysterical.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by Baylor

Remember these EU countries don't need a functioning military because they leech off the US. The only thing that's stopping Putin's tanks from marching through Europe is the security blanket offered kindly by the US military. They'll have to give up their cushy welfare states if the US had a change of heart and that gives them incredible anxiety.

I have no opinion about that.

[Shalamar]

Originally Posted by TheSupermeerkat

If you'd mentioned rape capital of the world, I'd have a full house.

And no-go areas.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by MRC_Hans

You suggested that people here should refrain from protesting. I pointed out thar it is their democratic right. You asked how Trump could ibterfere. I mentioned something he has already done repeatedly around the world. And he has just recently tried to interfere with the democratic proceses in Sweden.





.. happy to help you.

But that's no help at all. You're still ignoring what I've actually said. And you still ignoring what you've actually said.

You have the right to protest. Is it wise to exercise that right, with someone who could devastate your economy on a whim? Can you explain the wisdom of such protests?

And I asked how Trump could interfere with your democratic processes. That was the specific concern you raised. A trade war is not an example of that risk.

But I'm much more interested in your opinion on the wisdom of protesting Trump's visits, with balloon babies and other overt signs of antipathy. If Trump can devastate your economy on a whim, aren't you worried that these protests might very well trigger such a whim?

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

Trump could just follow his own advice and instead of exercising any power plays, if he doesn't like it he could just turn around and go home.

But it would be racist to suggest that, because Trump is literally a foreigner or something.

[Shalamar]

Originally Posted by theprestige

But it would be racist to suggest that, because Trump is literally a foreigner or something.

I didn't realize that Trump is a Citizen of Denmark. Do you have a claim for this?

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by KDLarsen

The people behind the baby trump blimp have confirmed they will bring it to Denmark, pending approval from the police and other relevant authorities.

The visit is right in the middle of my post-summer vacation, so I might head over to join the protests. They won't get anywhere near trump of course, but it's better than staying home and doing nothing except express my disgust with him online.

Better how?

[The Great Zaganza]

Americans would do well to listen to its allies when it comes to geopolitics - the Iraq Invasion should have made that more than obvious.
If countries traditionally extremely pro-American take the step of openly mocking the US President, they are probably doing so for a good reason.
Americans distrustful of their own media might be very well served to listen to European news sources to find out what is happening in their own country.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by Shalamar

I didn't realize that Trump is a Citizen of Denmark. Do you have a claim for this?

Irrelevant to the racism of telling him to go back home.

[Shalamar]

Originally Posted by theprestige

Irrelevant to the racism of telling him to go back home.

It's cute that you think so. But no.

[dann]

Originally Posted by theprestige

But that's no help at all. You're still ignoring what I've actually said. And you still ignoring what you've actually said.

You have the right to protest. Is it wise to exercise that right, with someone who could devastate your economy on a whim? Can you explain the wisdom of such protests?

So you recommend cowardly subservience?! Hmmmm, interesting! Is that the American way?! Can you explain the wisdom of such subservience?

Quote:

And I asked how Trump could interfere with your democratic processes. That was the specific concern you raised. A trade war is not an example of that risk.

But I'm much more interested in your opinion on the wisdom of protesting Trump's visits, with balloon babies and other overt signs of antipathy. If Trump can devastate your economy on a whim, aren't you worried that these protests might very well trigger such a whim?

Trump can go **** himself!
SEND HIM BACK!

[dann]

Originally Posted by Shalamar

I didn't realize that Trump is a Citizen of Denmark. Do you have a claim for this?

Trump couldn't possibly become a citizen of Denmark!
1) He would have to learn a foreign language.
2) He couldn't possibly pass the Danish citizenship test since a) he knows almost nothing about the world in general, and b) if he knows anything at all about Denmark, it's probably what he's learned from watching Fox.
Besides, I think the citizenship test nowadays may also test your attitude to gender equality, gay marriage, racism etc.

[dann]

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

Americans would do well to listen to its allies when it comes to geopolitics - the Iraq Invasion should have made that more than obvious.
If countries traditionally extremely pro-American take the step of openly mocking the US President, they are probably doing so for a good reason.
Americans distrustful of their own media might be very well served to listen to European news sources to find out what is happening in their own country.

How the world views the U.S. and its president in 9 charts (Pew Research Center, Oct. 9, 2018)

[Parsman]

Originally Posted by theprestige

But that's no help at all. You're still ignoring what I've actually said. And you still ignoring what you've actually said.

You have the right to protest. Is it wise to exercise that right, with someone who could devastate your economy on a whim? Can you explain the wisdom of such protests?

And I asked how Trump could interfere with your democratic processes. That was the specific concern you raised. A trade war is not an example of that risk.

But I'm much more interested in your opinion on the wisdom of protesting Trump's visits, with balloon babies and other overt signs of antipathy. If Trump can devastate your economy on a whim, aren't you worried that these protests might very well trigger such a whim?

Trump has been rampaging about devastating economies with his tariffs (thankfully mostly the USA) and in most countries he has imposed them on there haven't been anti-Trump protests. You seem to be expecting some sort of logical action on the part of your President. Small hint, that isn't likely to happen so we may as well protest when we get the chance.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by dann

So you recommend cowardly subservience?!

I recommend nothing. I'm simply trying to understand the nature of MRC Hans's concern, and why he think protests are a good idea, given the concern he's professed.

Quote:

Can you explain the wisdom of such subservience?

I wouldn't call it subservience, but the wisdom of not protesting seems obvious: It avoids the very real risk that Trump will be provoked to devastate your economy on a whim.

Maybe you think the risk is not so real, and that these protests are unlikely to have the kinds of repercussions Hans suggests.

Maybe you think that expressing your animosity to Trump is worth the risk. Maybe you'd rather have your economy devastated, than let Trump think that Danes like him.

I don't know. That's why I'm asking.

Here, let me ask you:

Do you think Trump could devastate the Danish economy on a whim?

Do you think it's wise for Danes to provoke someone who could devastate your economy on a whim?

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by Shalamar

It's cute that you think so. But no.

Not cute. Eeevil!

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by dann

Trump couldn't possibly become a citizen of Denmark!
1) He would have to learn a foreign language.
2) He couldn't possibly pass the Danish citizenship test since a) he knows almost nothing about the world in general, and b) if he knows anything at all about Denmark, it's probably what he's learned from watching Fox.
Besides, I think the citizenship test nowadays may also test your attitude to gender equality, gay marriage, racism etc.

The Law Library of Congress is the most reliable English-language source of information about the Danish naturalization process that I could find.

https://www.loc.gov/law/foreign-news...aturalization/

Interestingly, it includes this passage:

Knowledge of Society and History

Applicants must pass a civics and history test, containing questions on information ranging from the number of members in the Danish Parliament to the names of the most important Danish holidays.

And this passage:

Exemptions from Requirements

The language and knowledge of Danish history and society requirements can be waived for persons who are mentally or physically ill, provided that they submit a statement from a specialist attesting to the fact of the disability.

So it seems like Trump could probably get an exemption from having to take the test, given recent public statements by psychiatrists about his mental health. It might be interesting to see if the Danish government recognizes the legitimacy of that diagnosis.

[Shalamar]

Originally Posted by theprestige

Not cute. Eeevil!

Wrong thread.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by Parsman

Trump has been rampaging about devastating economies with his tariffs (thankfully mostly the USA) and in most countries he has imposed them on there haven't been anti-Trump protests.

Well, there have definitely been anti-Trump protests in the US, which is where you say most of the devastation is occurring.

And I find it hard to believe there haven't been anti-Trump protests in the other affected countries. The ones that aren't totalitarian states where public protests are suppressed in general, at least.

Quote:

You seem to be expecting some sort of logical action on the part of your President. Small hint, that isn't likely to happen so we may as well protest when we get the chance.

Nope. I'm expecting some sort of logical action on the part of the Danes. Trump's ire might be aroused by anything. Not protesting is no guarantee that he won't whimsically devastate your economy anyway. He's visiting the country, so Denmark is already going to be on his mind. Protesting while he's in the country can only increase the risk of whimsical devastation.

I guess for the protestors it's a question of what kind of predator they think they're dealing with. Is it one of those triggered-by-movement things, where your best bet is to stay motionless and do nothing until the predator moves on? Or is it one of those discouraged-by-menacing-display things, where your best bet is to stand tall, present as big a silhouette as possible, and make aggressive noises until the predator backs off? It looks like some Danes, at least, believe in the latter approach.

Either way, I wish the Danes the best of luck in September. Here's hoping OMB doesn't whimsically devastate your economy, whether because of the protests or in spite of them!

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by Shalamar

Wrong thread.

I understood the proposition to be globally applicable. It seems kind of pointless to restrict it to the one thread where it was proposed.

[Ryokan]

Originally Posted by theprestige

Well, there have definitely been anti-Trump protests in the US, which is where you say most of the devastation is occurring.

And I find it hard to believe there haven't been anti-Trump protests in the other affected countries. The ones that aren't totalitarian states where public protests are suppressed in general, at least.


Nope. I'm expecting some sort of logical action on the part of the Danes. Trump's ire might be aroused by anything. Not protesting is no guarantee that he won't whimsically devastate your economy anyway. He's visiting the country, so Denmark is already going to be on his mind. Protesting while he's in the country can only increase the risk of whimsical devastation.

I guess for the protestors it's a question of what kind of predator they think they're dealing with. Is it one of those triggered-by-movement things, where your best bet is to stay motionless and do nothing until the predator moves on? Or is it one of those discouraged-by-menacing-display things, where your best bet is to stand tall, present as big a silhouette as possible, and make aggressive noises until the predator backs off? It looks like some Danes, at least, believe in the latter approach.

Either way, I wish the Danes the best of luck in September. Here's hoping OMB doesn't whimsically devastate your economy, whether because of the protests or in spite of them!

You make Trump sound like an abusive husband whose wife is advised to not provoke him.

[dann]

Originally Posted by theprestige

Here, let me ask you:

Do you think Trump could devastate the Danish economy on a whim?

No, not really. I think that Lego can easily sell their toys to somebody else. And it would probably be cheaper to have the Chinese instead of Disney animate their movies anyway. 52,000 jobs? That's nothing. They can have mine.

Quote:

The USA is Denmark's third-largest export market with an export of goods and services of more than 100 billion dkr., corresponding to approximately 9,5% of all of Denmark's exports, and the import from the USA is 5,7% of the totality of Danish import.
Approximately 52,000 jobs are to found in the Danish export to the USA, primarily in industry, trade and services.
Stor samhandel mellem Danmark og USA

Quote:

Do you think it's wise for Danes to provoke someone who could devastate your economy on a whim?

There is not such person, but I'm surprised to see how much in awe you actually are of the ******* you're thinking of.

[dann]

Originally Posted by Ryokan

You make Trump sound like an abusive husband whose wife is advised to not provoke him.

'But you don't know him the way I do! You haven't seen his sensitive side!'

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by Ryokan

You make Trump sound like an abusive husband whose wife is advised to not provoke him.

Whatever he sounds like to you, we can still assess the risk and determine the wisest course of action to mitigate the risk.

I believe the conventional wisdom in the other scenario is to get out of the relationship as soon as possible, and take other defensive measures as appropriate against the risk of retaliation.

I don't think anyone advises unnecessarily antagonizing an abuser you can't escape from.

[dann]

Originally Posted by theprestige

And this passage:

Exemptions from Requirements

The language and knowledge of Danish history and society requirements can be waived for persons who are mentally or physically ill, provided that they submit a statement from a specialist attesting to the fact of the disability.

So it seems like Trump could probably get an exemption from having to take the test, given recent public statements by psychiatrists about his mental health. It might be interesting to see if the Danish government recognizes the legitimacy of that diagnosis.

Then he would have to be an asylum seeker, fleeing persecution in his own country, so all in all that sounds like the optimal outcome. However, I can't guarantee that many Danes won't consider building a wall if that happens.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by dann

No, not really.

A reasonable position, I think.

On the other hand, what's this about?

Quote:

I think that Lego can easily sell their toys to somebody else.

Isn't Lego already selling to everybody they can? It would be idiotic of them to leave a whole America-sized market untapped.

And this?

Quote:

And it would probably be cheaper to have the Chinese instead of Disney animate their movies anyway. 52,000 jobs? That's nothing. They can have mine.

You seem to be saying that the Danish film industry is commissioning Disney to animate Danish movies, and this is somehow a significant part of the Danish economy? I'm not sure how that makes sense, or if it's even true. But if it's cheaper to hire the Chinese, why aren't the Danes doing that already?

Quote:

There is not such person, but I'm surprised to see how much in awe you actually are of the ******* you're thinking of.

That Trump could devastate the Danish economy on a whim is MRC Hans's idea, not mine. I'm inclined towards your point of view. I'm stipulating Hans's proposition because I'm curious about how it informs his view of the wisdom of protesting Trump's visit.

[dann]

Originally Posted by theprestige

A reasonable position, I think.

On the other hand, what's this about?


Isn't Lego already selling to everybody they can? It would be idiotic of them to leave a whole America-sized market untapped.

Everybody who is selling anything is usually selling it to everybody they can possible sell it to. By the way, it was a joke! Denmark actually has other exports than LEGO bricks, and I have no idea if LEGO export them to the USA or produce and sell them there, which would make them a domestic product. Or maybe LEGOs for the American market are produced in China and already the object of new tariffs.

Quote:

And this?

You seem to be saying that the Danish film industry is commissioning Disney to animate Danish movies, and this is somehow a significant part of the Danish economy? I'm not sure how that makes sense, or if it's even true. But if it's cheaper to hire the Chinese, why aren't the Danes doing that already?

I couldn't let the joke go, and I thought that Disney animated the LEGO movie. My bad. It appears to be Warner Bros: The Lego Movie (Wikipedia). And it's probably some kind of joint venture. And maybe Warners use Chinese animators ...

Quote:

That Trump could devastate the Danish economy on a whim is MRC Hans's idea, not mine. I'm inclined towards your point of view. I'm stipulating Hans's proposition because I'm curious about how it informs his view of the wisdom of protesting Trump's visit.

For the past twenty years, the presidents of the USA have been trying to destroy the Cuban economy, and they have certainly managed to harm it, but they haven't succeeded in actually destroying it, even though the Cuban economy is considerably weaker than Denmark's.
In order to destroy the Danish economy, he would have to use nukes, and I don't think that he will (be allowed to) resort to that even if he might want to.
Rosie O'Donnell and Bette Midler are still alive, and they would be so much easier targets!

[phiwum]

Originally Posted by theprestige

Whatever he sounds like to you, we can still assess the risk and determine the wisest course of action to mitigate the risk.

I believe the conventional wisdom in the other scenario is to get out of the relationship as soon as possible, and take other defensive measures as appropriate against the risk of retaliation.

I don't think anyone advises unnecessarily antagonizing an abuser you can't escape from.

This is Donald Trump, not Lex Luthor. You don't believe he can destroy Denmark's economy. You're just playing a silly game.

You really have no call to complain about the standard of argument here when you make such ridiculous arguments yourself. The fact that MRC Hans first raised this hyperbole is no reason to harp on post after post as if you believe it.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by dann

Then he would have to be an asylum seeker, fleeing persecution in his own country, so all in all that sounds like the optimal outcome. However, I can't guarantee that many Danes won't consider building a wall if that happens.

Oh, for sure. I don't think there's any reasonable chance of him gaining Danish citizenship even if he wanted it.

I was just amused at the possibility that Trump may in fact already have a mental health exception to that one requirement.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by phiwum

This is Donald Trump, not Lex Luthor. You don't believe he can destroy Denmark's economy. You're just playing a silly game.

Every single Trump thread on this forum is playing a silly game. Every single Trump thread on this forum degenerates almost instantly in to hysteria and wishful thinking.

"Trump could destroy our economy on a whim."

"The protests mean something."

"The poor Danes."

As if any Danes outside of commuters in Copenhagen are likely to be disturbed at all by the visit, except that their fee-fees might be hurt by the knowledge that Trump is somewhere in Scandinavia with them.

And you don't object to the silly game, you just object to me playing along, right? You didn't reply to Hans, saying, "hold on, we're here for rational debate; let's be realistic about the risks, and rational in our discussion of these risks."

And to be honest, I'm not so sure it is hyperbole, in Hans's case. Have you looked at his replies to me? He keeps changing horses. I don't think he'd say that he made a hyperbolic claim. Certainly he's avoided it so far.

[dann]

Originally Posted by Parsman

Trump has been rampaging about devastating economies with his tariffs (thankfully mostly the USA) and in most countries he has imposed them on there haven't been anti-Trump protests. You seem to be expecting some sort of logical action on the part of your President. Small hint, that isn't likely to happen so we may as well protest when we get the chance.

Last year I talked with a guy from the American embassy. I asked him what the new US ambassador had been doing because Obama's ambassador had been on the news in Denmark all the time, and he even got his own reality show on Danish TV: two seasons!!! (on Netflix, I think.) But even though she actually used to be a (minor) movie star, she was almost completely absent from the news.
He told me that the new ambassador was busy reassuring Danish businessmen and telling them how to interpret Trump's ramblings.
By the way, there's an interesting clip from a movie that she made before she became an ambassador. I don't know if Trump ever saw it, but he probably did.

[MRC_Hans]

Originally Posted by Baylor

Shocking, those who benefit the most and put in the least are happy with NATO. It seems only backwards people stuck in the past still support NATO.

Don't you think NATO benefits the USA? Even Trump hasn't claimed that.

Quote:

Scandinavia belongs to immigrants, according to its leaders. Let China colonize it then, and let the unhappy people die off.

Funny thing coming from someone in a country that consists entirely of immigrants.

Hans

[dann]

Originally Posted by theprestige

Oh, for sure. I don't think there's any reasonable chance of him gaining Danish citizenship even if he wanted it.

I was just amused at the possibility that Trump may in fact already have a mental health exception to that one requirement.

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

[phiwum]

Originally Posted by theprestige

Every single Trump thread on this forum is playing a silly game. Every single Trump thread on this forum degenerates almost instantly in to hysteria and wishful thinking.

"Trump could destroy our economy on a whim."

"The protests mean something."

"The poor Danes."

As if any Danes outside of commuters in Copenhagen are likely to be disturbed at all by the visit, except that their fee-fees might be hurt by the knowledge that Trump is somewhere in Scandinavia with them.

And you don't object to the silly game, you just object to me playing along, right? You didn't reply to Hans, saying, "hold on, we're here for rational debate; let's be realistic about the risks, and rational in our discussion of these risks."

And to be honest, I'm not so sure it is hyperbole, in Hans's case. Have you looked at his replies to me? He keeps changing horses. I don't think he'd say that he made a hyperbolic claim. Certainly he's avoided it so far.

You are not protesting the lightweight claims by contributing the same. You're adding noise to the forum.

(And the "poor Danes" remark was light humor, for God's sake.)

I don't know if Hans was serious or not. It seems overstatement to me, not worth the number of posts you've contributing repeating the same claim. If you want to call him out on the silliness of the claim, just do it explicitly rather than carrying on as if you take it seriously.

I don't think the protests will achieve much. So what? Folks like expressing their opinions publicly and I can't see anything wrong with that, though I don't have the same desire myself. I doubt many of them are living under the delusion that a protest in Denmark will have a huge impact in the US political system.

ETA: I didn't respond to Hans because I saw that particular claim once by him, repeated by you I don't know how many times. Your contributions in this thread have become bloody tedious.

[theprestige]

Addressing a separate point separately:

Originally Posted by phiwum

This is Donald Trump, not Lex Luthor. You don't believe he can destroy Denmark's economy. You're just playing a silly game.

You really have no call to complain about the standard of argument here when you make such ridiculous arguments yourself. The fact that MRC Hans first raised this hyperbole is no reason to harp on post after post as if you believe it.

Here's another commonplace dynamic in "debates" on this forum. Someone says something you believe is silly and hyperbolic, but they're progressive, or a fellow traveler, or otherwise a devotee of Correct Thought, so you let it pass. But the moment someone from the out-group challenges it, you turn on them and try to make it their fault that the issue even came up at all.

If you'd actually gone through this thread in chronological order, calling out its defects as you went, you'd have gotten to Hans's silly hyperbole long before you got to my replies.

[dann]

Originally Posted by MRC_Hans

Don't you think NATO benefits the USA? Even Trump hasn't claimed that.

He's come very close to claiming that: https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/...606721?lang=en