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Tags general discussion , Israel issues , Israel-Palestine conflict , Palestine issues , US-Israel relations

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Old 4th March 2011, 08:50 PM   #361
IDB87
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Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
I own a Koran and have read through it. I don't need a website to tell me whats in it.

Do you, um...own a Koran?
Pics or it didn't happen.

No, I don't own a Quran. My bookshelf has enough fiction anyway.

I'm reading the translation provided by Yususf Ali, though.
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Old 4th March 2011, 08:53 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by IDB87 View Post
Pics or it didn't happen.
you are demanding pictures...of my Koran??

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Old 4th March 2011, 08:56 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
you are demanding pictures...of my Koran??

Don't actually care.

This has become a monstrous waste of time. Since you refuse to actually discuss what's in the Quran (of which I've posted <2> translations for those who don't have a hard copy) then it's about time to end this conversation.
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Old 4th March 2011, 08:59 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by IDB87 View Post
This has become a monstrous waste of time. Since you refuse to actually discuss what's in the Quran (of which I've posted <2> translations for those who don't have a hard copy) then it's about time to end this conversation.
No, I simply do not wish to engage in Islam-bashing.

As I stated before, I know there is bad **** in the Koran. But I also know there are good things in there aswell.

Insisting on focusing on the bad and ignoring the good, is bigotry.
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Old 4th March 2011, 09:03 PM   #365
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Quote:
Insisting on focusing on the bad and ignoring the good, is bigotry.
Sorry. Something about condemning homosexuals and diminishing the rights of women kind of overshadows the (already innate) sense of respecting one another or telling the truth.
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Old 4th March 2011, 09:06 PM   #366
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Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
I know there is bad **** in the Koran. But I also know there are good things in there as well.

Insisting on focusing on the bad and ignoring the good, is bigotry.
So Osama Bin Laden, Mahmoud Ahmedinjad, The Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Hezbollah and dozens of others are all bigots, then?

"I have been commanded to fight until none but muslims are left".
- Osama Bin Laden, quoting muslim scripture on video captured by US forces in Afghanistan
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Old 4th March 2011, 09:06 PM   #367
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Originally Posted by IDB87 View Post
Sorry. Something about condemning homosexuals and diminishing the rights of women kind of overshadows the (already innate) sense of respecting one another or telling the truth.
I would say that being good, kind, honest, generous, and loving is actually NOT innate, and indeed must be taught. But that's for another thread.

oh, and the Bible attacks homosexuality just as strongly as the Koran. But we aren't attacking the Bible, for some reason.
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Old 4th March 2011, 09:22 PM   #368
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Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
oh, and the Bible attacks homosexuality just as strongly as the Koran. But we aren't attacking the Bible, for some reason.
Probably because this is the Parky outrage du Jour Israel/Palestine thread. Christian scripture has less to do with the conflict than islamic or jewish scripture does.
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Old 4th March 2011, 09:28 PM   #369
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Originally Posted by Sword_Of_Truth View Post
Probably because this is the Parky outrage du Jour Israel/Palestine thread.
naa...this is the "Thunder posts facts about the Middle East and the deniers come like clockwork to deny them", thread.


Last edited by Thunder; 4th March 2011 at 09:29 PM.
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Old 4th March 2011, 10:07 PM   #370
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http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/na...iousness_peace

President Obama: "Israelis need to search their souls over their seriousness regarding peace".

Ok, Obama can talk the talk. But can he/will he add some teeth to his bark?

I doubt it.
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Old 5th March 2011, 09:36 AM   #371
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Israel Apartheid Week and freedom of speech on canadian campuses

canadian universities, far from being bastions of free thought and expression, suppress freedom of speech during Israel Apartheid Week.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(((( T h e B u l l e t ))))~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A Socialist Project e-bulletin ... No. 475 ... March 5, 2011
__________________________________________________ __________

This Is What Complicity Looks Like:
Palestine and the Silencing Campaign on Campus

Mary-Jo Nadeau and Alan Sears

The campaign to silence Palestine solidarity reaches its annual
crescendo during Israeli Apartheid Week (IAW). As IAW 2011
approaches, we need to prepare for another round of silencing.
This means assessing the silencing campaign and the experience of
standing up for free expression over the last few years.

The ongoing campaign to silence Palestine solidarity on Ontario
(and Canadian) campuses represents a major assault on academic
freedom and freedom of expression in general. Over the past five
years, attempts to suppress speech about the issue of Palestine
and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict have become routine, both on
and off campuses. The goal of this campaign is quite simply to
shut down political activism and scholarly exchange that explores
Palestinian experiences and/or criticizes the Israeli state. This
silencing project echoes that of the Israeli state itself, which
has systematically clamped down on all aspects of Palestinian
life while trying to eliminate signs and memories of Palestinian
existence.

Click here to continue reading:
http://www.socialistproject.ca/bullet/475.php#continue
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Old 5th March 2011, 09:40 AM   #372
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Originally Posted by bikerdruid View Post
canadian universities, far from being bastions of free thought and expression, suppress freedom of speech during Israel Apartheid Week.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(((( T h e B u l l e t ))))~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A Socialist Project e-bulletin ... No. 475 ... March 5, 2011
__________________________________________________ __________

This Is What Complicity Looks Like:
Palestine and the Silencing Campaign on Campus

Mary-Jo Nadeau and Alan Sears

The campaign to silence Palestine solidarity reaches its annual
crescendo during Israeli Apartheid Week (IAW). As IAW 2011
approaches, we need to prepare for another round of silencing.
This means assessing the silencing campaign and the experience of
standing up for free expression over the last few years.

The ongoing campaign to silence Palestine solidarity on Ontario
(and Canadian) campuses represents a major assault on academic
freedom and freedom of expression in general. Over the past five
years, attempts to suppress speech about the issue of Palestine
and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict have become routine, both on
and off campuses. The goal of this campaign is quite simply to
shut down political activism and scholarly exchange that explores
Palestinian experiences and/or criticizes the Israeli state. This
silencing project echoes that of the Israeli state itself, which
has systematically clamped down on all aspects of Palestinian
life while trying to eliminate signs and memories of Palestinian
existence.

Click here to continue reading:
http://www.socialistproject.ca/bullet/475.php#continue
Why are they marching in Canada?

Seriously, what's the point?

I had the same question about why some Kosovar supporters were marching in NYC back in 98 or 99?

Go protest somewhere where it matters. Show some actual courage, rather than hiding in a safe place and screaming at the top of your voice.

Hell, I can scream at the top of my voice in my shower, and protest the injustices in the Congo.

Lotta freakin' good that will do.
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Old 5th March 2011, 10:02 AM   #373
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I'm with Darth on this one.
I remember traveling through Kamloops BC when NATO was doing it's bombing campaign in Kosovo (think that was it). There was a large banner above a video store calling for Canadian pilots to be charged as war criminals. The question that came to my mind was "if you feel so strongly about this, why don't you renounce your Canadian citizenship (I assumed they were Serbian immigrants, could have been wrong) and go back to the old country to defend it?"
The only result I could see from it was that if I was in the mood to rent a video I would avoid the shop run by fanatics.
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Old 5th March 2011, 10:03 AM   #374
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I love how these western socialists think that a Palestinian state will be the pure Marxist state the Soviet bloc never was and they always wished for, as opposed to a fundy Islamic hellhole all the evidence points to.
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Old 5th March 2011, 10:09 AM   #375
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
I love how these western socialists think that a Palestinian state will be the pure Marxist state the Soviet bloc never was and they always wished for, as opposed to a fundy Islamic hellhole all the evidence points to.
you must have posted that in the wrong thread.
there is nothing in this piece about creating a marxist palestinian state.
how about addressing the actual topic?
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Old 5th March 2011, 10:25 AM   #376
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Originally Posted by bikerdruid View Post
you must have posted that in the wrong thread.
there is nothing in this piece about creating a marxist palestinian state.
how about addressing the actual topic?
From your OP:

A
Quote:
Socialist Project e-bulletin ... No. 475 ... March 5, 2011
I think that is where Wildcat may have gotten the association.
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Old 5th March 2011, 10:35 AM   #377
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
From your OP:

A

I think that is where Wildcat may have gotten the association.
association?
does the title indicate that the article is about marxism in palestine?
weird....no wonder the right is crazy.....
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Old 5th March 2011, 10:39 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by bikerdruid View Post
you must have posted that in the wrong thread.
there is nothing in this piece about creating a marxist palestinian state.
how about addressing the actual topic?
Sure it is, that's why the organizers of this event are Marxists. Why they are protesting the one state in the Middle East that has actual equality for all their citizens is beyond me. I'm sure this rally will draw the usual gaggle of anti-semites and terrorism supporters they always do. Plus a few aging 60s-era Marxists like yourself who think they're still relevant.

But mostly, it will be an anti-Jew pro-terrorism pep rally.
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Old 5th March 2011, 10:45 AM   #379
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
Sure it is, that's why the organizers of this event are Marxists. Why they are protesting the one state in the Middle East that has actual equality for all their citizens is beyond me. I'm sure this rally will draw the usual gaggle of anti-semites and terrorism supporters they always do. Plus a few aging 60s-era Marxists like yourself who think they're still relevant.

But mostly, it will be an anti-Jew pro-terrorism pep rally.
protesting against israel is not 'anti jew'....it is anti israel apartheid.

protesting against israel is not anti-semitism, not is it 'pro terrorist'.

plus, the protests are not marxist....they are humanitarian.

Last edited by bikerdruid; 5th March 2011 at 10:46 AM.
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Old 5th March 2011, 10:49 AM   #380
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Please, Israel "apartheid" is a pathetic attempt to skit around the godwin (and indeed, many of the IAW types would be stating that Israel are the new Nazis and would probably believe it if someone told them that Israel was emptying entire villages to use as mine clearance tools)
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Old 5th March 2011, 10:52 AM   #381
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Originally Posted by bikerdruid View Post
plus, the protests are not marxist....they are humanitarian.
Good one!

Tell me, what is on the schedule wrt the Lebanese denying citizenship, land ownership, etc to Palestinians who have lived there for 4 generations now?

Nothing? That's right. Because this is about destroying Israel, under cover of "humanitarianism".

The next time you see Marxists fighting for the rights of Palestinians in Lebanon, where there is actual apartheid, will be the first. But we know that won't ever happen, don't we? Because this is about Jew hatred.
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Old 5th March 2011, 10:58 AM   #382
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
Because this is about Jew hatred.

how very wrong you are....it's sad, really...
the only hatred in this discussion is the usual......the hatred of palestinians that is so common among right-wingnuts.
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Old 5th March 2011, 11:18 AM   #383
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This deserves its own special thread apart from the existing Israel/Palestine thread because...?
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Old 5th March 2011, 11:21 AM   #384
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Originally Posted by bikerdruid View Post
how very wrong you are....it's sad, really...
the only hatred in this discussion is the usual......the hatred of palestinians that is so common among right-wingnuts.
Over 1 million Palestinians live in Israel as full citizens. They are allowed to vote, hold elected office, travel wherever they like. This is "apartheid"?

Meanwhile, just over the border in Lebanon, Palestinians are forced to live in designated areas, cannot vote, cannot hold elected office, cannot travel freely, cannot work without special permits. And not a peep from any of the so-called anti-apartheid activists.

Pardon me if I conclude that this is more about hatred of Jews than real concern about apartheid. You can put a load of bovine excrement on my plate, you can't make me eat it. Perhaps they'll find enough useful idiots to fill out the ranks and mask the overt anti-semitism sure to be found at these rallies, maybe you're even one of them. But it's obvious what this is really about.
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Old 5th March 2011, 11:39 AM   #385
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Originally Posted by Sword_Of_Truth View Post
This deserves its own special thread apart from the existing Israel/Palestine thread because...?

because this thread is about the lack of free thought and speech on canadian campuses.
but if you had read the op you would know that.
would you care to address the topic, or can we expect further derailing by you?
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Old 5th March 2011, 12:06 PM   #386
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A question for you Biker, why choose this particular topic for showcasing a lack of free speech on Canadian campuses? I haven't paid a lot of attention to these events, although I know they occur every year and haven't heard of any being shut down.
On the other hand, closer to home, xtian groups do get censored and their protests shut down for protesting abortions on campuses. I do not support their message, but do support their right to say it, as well as those who choose to counter protest.
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/na...c-5823f95f9625
Cherry picked that off of google, lots more there.
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Old 5th March 2011, 12:18 PM   #387
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Originally Posted by likkerpig View Post
A question for you Biker, why choose this particular topic for showcasing a lack of free speech on Canadian campuses? I haven't paid a lot of attention to these events, although I know they occur every year and haven't heard of any being shut down.
On the other hand, closer to home, xtian groups do get censored and their protests shut down for protesting abortions on campuses. I do not support their message, but do support their right to say it, as well as those who choose to counter protest.
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/na...c-5823f95f9625
Cherry picked that off of google, lots more there.
when i was in calgary a year ago, i went to visit my old campus at the u of c.
in the centre of campus was a huge display of disgusting and graphic pictures of the worst of human debaucles, the massacres of children, and many graphic pictures of aborted and mutilated fetuses. they were making the comparison between african genocides and abortions. i sat and watched the event or a while. no one was interfering with their right to do that, however, the demonstrations against israel apartheid have been banned on canadian campuses in the past few years.
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Old 5th March 2011, 12:18 PM   #388
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Originally Posted by bikerdruid View Post
because this thread is about the lack of free thought and speech on canadian campuses.
but if you had read the op you would know that.
would you care to address the topic, or can we expect further derailing by you?
If the author of the article linked in the OP could write a coherent thesis perhaps this would become clear. Instead it's an incoherent rant about... something.

Maybe you can clarify what the author has been unable to illustrate? How is speech on Canadian campuses being stifled?
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Old 5th March 2011, 12:23 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
If the author of the article linked in the OP could write a coherent thesis perhaps this would become clear. Instead it's an incoherent rant about... something.

Maybe you can clarify what the author has been unable to illustrate? How is speech on Canadian campuses being stifled?
http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/200...-week-posters/
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Old 5th March 2011, 12:30 PM   #390
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Originally Posted by bikerdruid View Post
I'm tired of you just dropping a link without any summary from you at all. Are you incapable of summarizing what we can expect to see in your links? Not even a quote supporting whatever it is you're asserting?
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Old 5th March 2011, 12:33 PM   #391
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Originally Posted by bikerdruid View Post
when i was in calgary a year ago, i went to visit my old campus at the u of c.
in the centre of campus was a huge display of disgusting and graphic pictures of the worst of human debaucles, the massacres of children, and many graphic pictures of aborted and mutilated fetuses. they were making the comparison between african genocides and abortions. i sat and watched the event or a while. no one was interfering with their right to do that, however, the demonstrations against israel apartheid have been banned on canadian campuses in the past few years.
I agree it was disgusting, as well as the idea of some upper middle class (oy, sterotyping) spoon fed never worked a day in their life university student using the images of incredible suffering and brutality to bolster their pet outrage of the month. But, in the spirit of free speech they are allowed to be that offensive. You may not have seen it but the cops did haul them away.
In regards to the IAW I do not recall it ever being banned on any campus. I did see footage of counter-protesters being hauled away after a IAP supporter attacked one of them for filming them.
Do you have any links where IAW is shut down on a Canadian campus? Or are you just protesting that some people dare not agree with it? And <gasp> say so?
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Old 5th March 2011, 12:45 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by likkerpig View Post
I agree it was disgusting, as well as the idea of some upper middle class (oy, sterotyping) spoon fed never worked a day in their life university student using the images of incredible suffering and brutality to bolster their pet outrage of the month. But, in the spirit of free speech they are allowed to be that offensive. You may not have seen it but the cops did haul them away.
In regards to the IAW I do not recall it ever being banned on any campus. I did see footage of counter-protesters being hauled away after a IAP supporter attacked one of them for filming them.
Do you have any links where IAW is shut down on a Canadian campus? Or are you just protesting that some people dare not agree with it? And <gasp> say so?
see above...
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Old 5th March 2011, 12:48 PM   #393
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
I'm tired of you just dropping a link without any summary from you at all. Are you incapable of summarizing what we can expect to see in your links? Not even a quote supporting whatever it is you're asserting?
dude...you asked, "How is speech on Canadian campuses being stifled?"|
i gave you a link to an example.
the universities of ottawa and carelton, for example have banned posters and demonstrations during 'israeli apartheid week'.

there....all better now?
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Old 5th March 2011, 12:51 PM   #394
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So banning a poster that shows a Apache helicopter labeled Israel firing a Hellfire missile at at a child with a teddy bear labeled Gaza, which obviously has no bias, is the same as banning the whole protest?
Wow, whole lot of disconnect to come to that conclusion.
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Old 5th March 2011, 12:52 PM   #395
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Originally Posted by bikerdruid View Post
canadian universities, far from being bastions of free thought and expression, suppress freedom of speech
Well, duh. You're only noticing it now because it's your ox that got gored.
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Old 5th March 2011, 12:54 PM   #396
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I retract my previous post, I agree they should be allowed to put up whatever posters they want. Let it be judged on it's content.
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Old 5th March 2011, 01:32 PM   #397
Thunder
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
Why are they marching in Canada?
flights to Tel Aviv are expensive these days, and Canada is a long-time supporter of Israel.
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Old 5th March 2011, 01:34 PM   #398
Thunder
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
But mostly, it will be an anti-Jew pro-terrorism pep rally.
yes, because the ONLY possible reason to oppose the illegal Israeli settlements in the West Bank, is anti-Semitism.



and yes, while it can be said that the Israeli-Arabs no longer live in a state of Apartheid, the Palestinians of the West Bank surely do. Almost all aspects of a pure Apartheid-state exist in the West Bank.

Last edited by Thunder; 5th March 2011 at 01:37 PM.
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Old 5th March 2011, 01:35 PM   #399
bikerdruid
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Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
flights to Tel Aviv are expensive these days, and Canada is a long-time supporter of Israel.

canada also banned george galloway from entering, but allowed ann coulter to come here and spew her hatred and vitriol.
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Old 5th March 2011, 01:39 PM   #400
Darth Rotor
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Originally Posted by bikerdruid View Post
canada also banned george galloway from entering, but allowed ann coulter to come here and spew her hatred and vitriol.
Will you stop insulting Canada?

I think Canadians are, generally, able to take Coulter with the grain of salt that a serving of her rhetoric calls for.
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