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Tags barbra streisand , celebrity opinions , child abuse issues , michael jackson , sex scandals

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Old 25th March 2019, 02:34 AM   #41
dann
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
She was friends with Jackson?

Not as much as Liza Minelli and Elizabeth Taylor, I think.
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Old 25th March 2019, 03:04 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
In my experience, a lot of people hold these views. I've heard many times that "back in my day everyone had a funny uncle" and "children weren't shielded from the facts of life" and "boys were expected to have experience before marriage".

I think a lot of people from previous generations failed to understand the consequences of abuse, failed to recognize the signs and symptoms for what they are, and tended to see it as merely distasteful or unethical rather than destructive and sinister.
Dawkins pretty much said the same thing about the teachers who abused boys in English bording schools.
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Old 25th March 2019, 06:42 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Dawkins pretty much said the same thing about the teachers who abused boys in English bording schools.
Dawkins was one of the group who was touched by a teacher and said that although wrong he didn't think it did any of them lasting harm. Right there he has a different perspective than Streisand, unless she was one of the group allegedly molested by Jackson.

Also, Dawkins specifically stated that he was not referring to what Jackson is accused of, only the mild touching he was, and some of his peer group were, subjected to.

And he was using the example as anecdotal evidence to show that religious indoctrination is abuse in that he and his peers got over that light touching but many adults his age still struggle with the consequences of their indoctrination. His point being that if we judge abuse by the amount of harm it does, their indoctrination was more abusive than his being touched.

So no, he didn't say the same thing at all.
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Old 25th March 2019, 07:02 AM   #44
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Look, it wasn't rape-rape.
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Old 25th March 2019, 07:02 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
She was friends with Jackson?


I thought she was before you posted your comment. I'll look it up.

I guess my overarching point was that I could understand her comments if Jackson were a friend.
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Old 25th March 2019, 07:35 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
I thought she was before you posted your comment. I'll look it up.

I guess my overarching point was that I could understand her comments if Jackson were a friend.
I understood her comments to be more as a generational thing. She belongs to a generation whose motto is more "Bad things happen to everyone, Get over it and get on with it" which is pretty much how she got to be where she is.
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Old 25th March 2019, 08:05 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
I thought she was before you posted your comment. I'll look it up.

I guess my overarching point was that I could understand her comments if Jackson were a friend.
I read this today from "The AV Club."

I'll give her the benefit of the doubt and say that she's a clueless bimbo who doesn't think when she speaks.

Quote:
“You can say ‘molested,’” Streisand started, ominously, “but those children, as you heard them say [the grown-up Robson and Safechuk], they were thrilled to be there. They both married and they both have children, so it didn’t kill them.”
.....

“His sexual needs were his sexual needs, coming from whatever childhood he has or whatever DNA he has.”

In the interview, Streisand—who only knew Jackson in passing—is fairly forgiving of his accused intention of using his status and power to take sexual advantage of Robson and Safechuck (who were children), stating, “It’s a combination of feelings. I feel bad for the children. I feel bad for him. I blame, I guess, the parents, who would allow their children to sleep with him.”
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Old 25th March 2019, 08:40 AM   #48
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She is still touring and singing. Not bad for a demented 80 year old who demands upwards of $1000 per ticket. Didn't she promise to leave the U.S. a couple of years ago? It's not too late.
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Old 25th March 2019, 08:41 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
I'm getting more sensitive as I get older (which is odd - I would have thought it'd be the other way around)
This is an interesting phenomenon, I've experienced it myself. And I think it actually goes both ways: I get less sensitive about some stuff and more sensitive about other stuff as I get older. It's easier to tolerate superficial annoyances because life experience helps reveal their superficiality. But experience can also teach you how much is at stake when it really matters, and that it's not just a game, it's not just fiction, it's not abstract. And so some of that heavy stuff hits harder because you comprehend its horrors more fully.
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Old 25th March 2019, 09:09 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
This is an interesting phenomenon, I've experienced it myself. And I think it actually goes both ways: I get less sensitive about some stuff and more sensitive about other stuff as I get older. It's easier to tolerate superficial annoyances because life experience helps reveal their superficiality. But experience can also teach you how much is at stake when it really matters, and that it's not just a game, it's not just fiction, it's not abstract. And so some of that heavy stuff hits harder because you comprehend its horrors more fully.
Well said. As an older dude myself ("senior citizen" for 6 months ) I agree.
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Old 25th March 2019, 11:28 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
And he was using the example as anecdotal evidence to show that religious indoctrination is abuse in that he and his peers got over that light touching but many adults his age still struggle with the consequences of their indoctrination. His point being that if we judge abuse by the amount of harm it does, their indoctrination was more abusive than his being touched.
Except that if I remember correctly, his reasoning that his peers "got over that light touching" was exactly identical to Streisand's: the fact that they seem to have gone on to live "normal" lives, irrespective of their personal opinions on the matter which Dawkins doesn't know because he hasn't talked to them about it (digression: although that going on to live normal lives doesn't seem to exonerate the "religious indoctrination" they all suffered from being even more damaging than the abuse...)
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Old 25th March 2019, 11:29 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
I read this today from "The AV Club.

Okay, I stand corrected. I cannot excuse Streisand's comments at all. i guess she's sort of right that everybody involved was victimized. MJ was probably a victim of parental abuse in his youth. But the manner in which she stated it was wildly ignorant.
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Old 25th March 2019, 11:36 AM   #53
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This issue with BS is not, I believe, generational. I find Streisand to be lucky. Arrogant, ignorant, and insensitive, but also lucky. It seems she never lost a piece of her soul from abuse. Never experienced that inner conflict, the love that the child feels towards their abuser. I know that feeling, felt them.


Lucky Barb. Yet nothing mitigates her lack of empathy. Her very words about those men, those VICTIMS of abuse, the 'how-dare-they-complain-now' attitude, seems almost sociopathic.
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Old 25th March 2019, 01:54 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Right. As an artiste, she leaves me cold, but that is a subjective preference. Her statements simply amount to a lame defense of pedo behavior. That is outside of acceptable in any milieu.

I have 2 kids, and I take a certain pride that I have raised them to be immediately cynical of the motivations of others. "You want to do what now? Like hell you can".

I didn't set out with any plan to get them to that point, I guess I simply had empathy. It just happened, was absorbed, whatever. In any event, I can have confidence that neither of mine would be suckered by such BS. My kids are total cynical bastages and I find that oddly reassuring. Were either in such a compromising position they would be all "Wait, wut?" swiftly followed by "WTF? Really?" followed by "foxtrot right oscar". I would love to take credit for that, but alas, the credit is not mine, it is theirs.

Nevertheless, I can see how easily some kids of crappy parents would be sucked right in. It is an easy celebrity trap, reflected glory and all that. It is the very same phenomenon that gave us Honey Boo Boo. Parents vicariously living out their fantasies by means of their progeny. Jon-Benet also. All of that is actual child abuse that is simply accepted, because?

So returning to MJ, I would have happily donated my kids to Neverland because I have confidence that they would have totally messed him up, to the point of doing violence upon him as required.
IN a sense the parents should take a little heat. But after going down the rabbit hole after seeing LN and reading a few sites - I have to say that Michael was actively recruiting* these families as well. He would say to the parents how much talent x has and then then pay for private lessons from a tutor and give the parents a car so their dependence on MJ gradually increased over time.


*They don't really go into that in 'Leaving Neverland".
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Old 25th March 2019, 02:34 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Streissand always was a Froot Loop.

All that has happened now that he is approaching her 80s, is that she is becoming a Senile Froot Loop
Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
She shares the same wonderful opinions of many of her buddies. Old age has degraded her editing/B.S. abilities, that's all. Personally, I appreciate the honesty.
I agree with both of those sentiments.

Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
This issue with BS is not, I believe, generational. I find Streisand to be lucky. Arrogant, ignorant, and insensitive, but also lucky. It seems she never lost a piece of her soul from abuse. Never experienced that inner conflict, the love that the child feels towards their abuser. I know that feeling, felt them.


Lucky Barb. Yet nothing mitigates her lack of empathy. Her very words about those men, those VICTIMS of abuse, the 'how-dare-they-complain-now' attitude, seems almost sociopathic.
I would be surprised if she didn't have sex with one or more older men in her youth in order to advance her career. Its entirely possible she was raped or otherwise assaulted and kept quite for that reason. She may well be coming at this from the perspective of, that's just how its done, don't be a cry baby. Doesn't make it right but its a possibility she did in fact lose a piece of her "soul" from abuse. Still a rape apologist, which makes her current self ******.
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Old 25th March 2019, 02:49 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
....
I would be surprised if she didn't have sex with one or more older men in her youth in order to advance her career. Its entirely possible she was raped or otherwise assaulted and kept quite for that reason.
....

She herself has said that it never happened to her. Paradoxically, if true, that could make it harder for her to understand the dynamics and long-term impact on victims.
Quote:
“Never! No. I mean, never,” Streisand replied when Murphy asked if she had a #MeToo story. “I mean, I wasn't like those pretty girls with those nice little noses. Maybe that's why.”

“I had no idea,” she continued, mentioning a dinner she had with a “very beautiful woman last night” who shared she also hadn’t been a victim of harassment. “It depends on the circumstances,” Streisand said.
https://www.etonline.com/barbra-stre...o-moment-98553

It also wouldn't surprise me if, growing up poor as a streetwise Brooklyn kid, she was better able to spot trouble ahead and deal with it than the starry-eyed small-town girls who go to Hollywood to become stars.

She hasn't always been rich and famous.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbra_Streisand

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Old 25th March 2019, 03:24 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Streissand always was a Froot Loop.

All that has happened now that he is approaching her 80s, is that she is becoming a Senile Froot Loop
In California she became notorious for her hypocrisy when it came to politics;she was a huge liberal until a liberal law would inconvience her. Most notorious was when a law regulating coastal development kept her from expanding her fancy coastal mansion and she went nuclear about it.
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Old 25th March 2019, 03:47 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
This issue with BS is not, I believe, generational. I find Streisand to be lucky. Arrogant, ignorant, and insensitive, but also lucky. It seems she never lost a piece of her soul from abuse. Never experienced that inner conflict, the love that the child feels towards their abuser. I know that feeling, felt them.
Worthwhile to remember that this is not exclusive to child sexual abuse. Mature women and men who are in abusive relationships often struggle to leave such relationships simply because they are still infatuated with their abuser. How many people haven't "forgiven" their partner multiple times for the physical and psychological abuse they have inflicted on them?
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Old 25th March 2019, 04:08 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
In California she became notorious for her hypocrisy when it came to politics;she was a huge liberal until a liberal law would inconvience her. Most notorious was when a law regulating coastal development kept her from expanding her fancy coastal mansion and she went nuclear about it.
They don't call them "stars" because they are stable, they call them "stars" because they occasionally cataclysmize with fiery gusts of destruction bathing all that surrounds them in dreadful doom.
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Old 25th March 2019, 05:05 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Not sure what you are trying to say here, but as someone whose father recently died of dementia it is slightly disturbing.

Statistics mean nothing to someone who actually has the condition, and even if 'only' 20% of the population suffer from it that's still a lot. Since both my father and grandfather died from it (the latter at age 65) I'm not feeling too good about my own chances. My father lived to 89 but started showing signs of dementia in his 60's, and since I am now 61...
I'm sorry for your loss. I was saying that getting dementia isn't automatically part of getting old and in fact most people don't develop dementia. It was a response to the "she's old therefore she's senile" comment. If there is evidence that Streisand has dementia, that's something, but as far as I know there isn't. And therefore it's inaccurate and unkind to automatically assume that she has dementia just because she's old.
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Old 25th March 2019, 05:15 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by bytewizard View Post
She is still touring and singing. Not bad for a demented 80 year old...
Has she been diagnosed with dementia? You know this how?
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Old 25th March 2019, 08:14 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
They don't call them "stars" because they are stable, they call them "stars" because they occasionally cataclysmize with fiery gusts of destruction bathing all that surrounds them in dreadful doom.
That's a little extreme. After all, she -- unlike someone we all know -- doesn't have access to the nuclear codes. And she -- again, unlike someone we all know -- has apologized for her offensive remarks. https://www.barbrastreisand.com/news...t-from-barbra/
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