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Old 25th January 2018, 07:57 AM   #161
Dave Rogers
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Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post
Not true... the core could have stood without the perimeter columns or the OOS flooring.
Do you have a cite for that? I suspect it might have been too slender to stand unsupported, and as I understand it the perimeter had the primary role in maintaining stiffness. But I also suspect the perimeter would have collapsed without the floors bracing it to the core, because the longer walls would bow more easily in the vertical plane.

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Old 25th January 2018, 09:01 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
I know I'll never get an answer to this, but why would a government evil enough to attack two of their own cities as justification for a war under false pretenses feel the need to set up an elaborate conspiracy to evacuate en relocate thousands of people and keep them silent? It'd increase their chances of getting caught, and since they want to start a war and are fine with millions of people dying, why would they care so much about a couple of thousand more or less? And if they really did want to spare their own citizens, then why not come up with a different false flag operation that does not require months of easily detectable construction work in the nation's busiest city?
He's the big idea man. It's for us smaller minds to work out the little details.
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Old 25th January 2018, 10:27 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Do you have a cite for that? I suspect it might have been too slender to stand unsupported, and as I understand it the perimeter had the primary role in maintaining stiffness. But I also suspect the perimeter would have collapsed without the floors bracing it to the core, because the longer walls would bow more easily in the vertical plane.

Dave
I have no citation for this. However the core had quite large footprint by itself.

The building without the facade would respond to the wind for sure. And it would bend.... When the facade was added it would act like a sail on the side normal to the wind and on the sides aligned with the wind these would act as use plates stiffening the motion... massive beam webs kinda. The design had to have dampeners to control the movement because people would get sick from too much motion.

There is no reason that the facade could not stand without the OOS floors and the facade in my opinion.
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Old 25th January 2018, 10:35 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by Scott Sommers View Post
I bet you this goes on for 100 pages. I've seen no-planers argue endlessly with Tracey Postart and that other guy about how there were no planes. Paranoid schizophrenics have a way of producing endless amounts of type about things that are clearly so crazy even most crazy people can't accept them. I guess they have to have a place to go but pretty much the only thing that is more disturbed than this version of "no-planerism" is gang stalking.

Yankee451 are there people following you? Do agents want to know more about how it is only you who have the truth?
125 pages I think

...that or he is a lonely old guy looking for attention and actually likes to have long meaningless discussions about stupid stuff he has made up.
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Old 25th January 2018, 10:52 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
125 pages I think

...that or he is a lonely old guy looking for attention and actually likes to have long meaningless discussions about stupid stuff he has made up.
I would say this is pretty accurate. I read through the link Big Dog provided and it is the exact same thread all over again. He asks for proof and pictures, people ask what his theory is, he just repeats same questions and dodges the question. People get a hint of what he is implying, ask how it's possible, he has no answers, repeats same questions. Finally people provided him the picture evidence to prove him wrong, he abandons the thread. Lather, rinse, repeat.
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Old 25th January 2018, 11:03 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by kali1137 View Post
I would say this is pretty accurate. I read through the link Big Dog provided and it is the exact same thread all over again. He asks for proof and pictures, people ask what his theory is, he just repeats same questions and dodges the question. People get a hint of what he is implying, ask how it's possible, he has no answers, repeats same questions. Finally people provided him the picture evidence to prove him wrong, he abandons the thread. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Yep, pretty much the same thing. Boring
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Old 25th January 2018, 12:37 PM   #167
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I've followed this D'eak dude for more than a few years. In a field (9/12 Truthers) of extraordinary Nutzo whack jobs, he stands out. From an formation of cruise missiles causing the observable damage at both WTC and Shanksville to an empty WTC to dust machines to fake people/jumpers, he indeed is the poster boy for crazy conspiracy nut.
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Old 25th January 2018, 12:47 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by Pinch View Post
I've followed this D'eak dude for more than a few years. In a field (9/12 Truthers) of extraordinary Nutzo whack jobs, he stands out. From an formation of cruise missiles causing the observable damage at both WTC and Shanksville to an empty WTC to dust machines to fake people/jumpers, he indeed is the poster boy for crazy conspiracy nut.
I could be as crazy as you say, but it wouldn't change the evidence in the OP that you won't touch. Should be easy to prove how said evidence supports your beliefs. But you don't do that. Attacking the messenger is so 'dark ages' doncha think?
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Old 25th January 2018, 12:51 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
I could be as crazy as you say, but it wouldn't change the evidence in the OP that you won't touch. Should be easy to prove how said evidence supports your beliefs. But you don't do that. Attacking the messenger is so 'dark ages' doncha think?
there is no evidence in the OP, your arguments on this subject have been made and destroyed before, the assertion that there was no concrete or floors in the WTC is absurd, and you have never visited the wtc.
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Old 25th January 2018, 12:54 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
I could be as crazy as you say, but it wouldn't change the evidence in the OP that you won't touch. Should be easy to prove how said evidence supports your beliefs. But you don't do that. Attacking the messenger is so 'dark ages' doncha think?
Everything you have stated has already been taken apart and then some when you made this EXACT SAME POST a year or so back. But I am sure asking the same questions again and again and again while ignoring any answers you have received is completely rational behavior.....
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Old 25th January 2018, 12:55 PM   #171
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Quote:
Attacking the messenger is so 'dark ages' doncha think?

we won't have to worry about that until an actual messenger shows up.
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Old 25th January 2018, 12:55 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
I could be as crazy as you say, but it wouldn't change the evidence in the OP that you won't touch.
If you were crazy, then you could very well see evidence that isn't there.

Like now.
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Old 25th January 2018, 01:05 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
I could be as crazy as you say, but it wouldn't change the evidence in the OP that you won't touch.....
I've asked you before. Quote your OP and use the highlight option to highlight everything in it which you consider evidence. At the moment, none of us has any idea what you are talking about when you say evidence.
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Old 25th January 2018, 01:48 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Is this you explaining why the ibeams are missing but the straps that were once bolted to them are all haning in a row on the wall, disconnected at the same place? Is this you explaining how a chaotic collapse better explains this evidence than systematic dismantling? Heh, yes, yes it is.
No Steve. It’s me, once again, pointing you toward the big picture. A recurring theme is your amateur attempts at “photo analysis” and your fevered little imagination. Remember your crowing about blast damage to the pentagon that turned out to be a ******* tree? Or the time you thought a burning piece of construction equipment was a smoke generator? I could go on but I’m sure it wouldn’t do any good.

Stick to writing fiction Steve. Hire an illustrator or learn photoshop, you might hook a few truthers that way.
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Old 25th January 2018, 01:49 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post
I have no citation for this. However the core had quite large footprint by itself.

The building without the facade would respond to the wind for sure. And it would bend.... When the facade was added it would act like a sail on the side normal to the wind and on the sides aligned with the wind these would act as use plates stiffening the motion... massive beam webs kinda. The design had to have dampeners to control the movement because people would get sick from too much motion.

There is no reason that the facade could not stand without the OOS floors and the facade in my opinion.
The best reason to assume the core could not stand alone longer than a few minutes would be that it wasn't designed to be able to stand alone. Wind loads were dealt with by the perimeter in conjunction with floor systems and core. Take away any component, and the structure is mostly doomed. 1300 ft tall structure do not remain standing by chance.
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Old 25th January 2018, 02:00 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
No Steve. It’s me, once again, pointing you toward the big picture. A recurring theme is your amateur attempts at “photo analysis” and your fevered little imagination. Remember your crowing about blast damage to the pentagon that turned out to be a ******* tree? Or the time you thought a burning piece of construction equipment was a smoke generator? I could go on but I’m sure it wouldn’t do any good.

Stick to writing fiction Steve. Hire an illustrator or learn photoshop, you might hook a few truthers that way.
I notice that he never mentions any of the hijacked aircraft. Zoom out, Steve. Big picture time ...
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Old 25th January 2018, 02:23 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
I've asked you before. Quote your OP and use the highlight option to highlight everything in it which you consider evidence. At the moment, none of us has any idea what you are talking about when you say evidence.
You're supposed to click on his website and see things in his pictures the way he does. That's his evidence in a nut shell.
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Old 25th January 2018, 02:33 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
I notice that he never mentions any of the hijacked aircraft. Zoom out, Steve. Big picture time ...
Please try to not let your preconceptions distract you from addressing the evidence detailed in the OP, which I can't help but notice truthers and trusters avoid.
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Old 25th January 2018, 02:35 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
there is no evidence in the OP, your arguments on this subject have been made and destroyed before, the assertion that there was no concrete or floors in the WTC is absurd, and you have never visited the wtc.
Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Please try to not let your preconceptions distract you from addressing the evidence detailed in the OP, which I can't help but notice truthers and trusters avoid.
Zzzzzzzzz
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Old 25th January 2018, 02:47 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Please try to not let your preconceptions distract you from addressing the evidence detailed in the OP, which I can't help but notice truthers and trusters avoid.
There is no evidence to go over.

Yankee you have proven over the years and with many posts that it is not remotely possible to have a sane, rational discussion with you.

You do realize that don't you?
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Old 25th January 2018, 02:59 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by kali1137 View Post
Everything you have stated has already been taken apart and then some when you made this EXACT SAME POST a year or so back. But I am sure asking the same questions again and again and again while ignoring any answers you have received is completely rational behavior.....
There's a certain security in ignorance, I think, a Dunning-Kruger sort of invincibility that goes along with not knowing enough about a subject your idea depends on to doubt your conclusions about it. Apollo-hoaxers display the same sort of thing- they misinterpret photos of engineering/science that they're almost completely ignorant of and come up with some really strange conclusions that they just don't know enough to ever question.

Some folks here have already said that the questions Yankee is so insistent folks answer are irrelevant, even though they've been answered, and I think that's right. But that insistent repetition is a CT tactic- it keeps the focus where they want it, which is anywhere but on the specifics of the "engineering" (so to speak) of their own idea. This sort of thing is a faith, which by its nature is to be maintained, not tested. And Yankee's made it untestable anyway- when he says that pretty much everyone is in on it ("the leaders of most of the world’s nations, media, businesses, law enforcement, and what passes for academia"), he makes it unfalsifiable. Questions about reality are only meaningful if they're asked in good faith, which is to say on the understanding that they're open-ended and may lead to unwanted answers. Needless to say, these are not the sort of questions Yankee is asking- he's not really asking anything at all, just putting a misleading mark on the end of bad faith statements that he thinks are The TruthTM but have nothing to do with what's just true.
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Old 25th January 2018, 03:07 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Please try to not let your preconceptions distract you from addressing the evidence detailed in the OP,
Translation:
Please forget everything you know about reality and accept things as I see them as you click on my site.

Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
..... which I can't help but notice truthers and trusters avoid.
Translation:
No one else see things the same as I do but, click on my site.
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Old 25th January 2018, 03:11 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Please try to not let your preconceptions distract you from addressing the evidence detailed in the OP, which I can't help but notice truthers and trusters avoid.
To be fair, people generally avoid steaming piles of crap.
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Old 25th January 2018, 03:12 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
There's a certain security in ignorance, I think, a Dunning-Kruger sort of invincibility that goes along with not knowing enough about a subject your idea depends on to doubt your conclusions about it. Apollo-hoaxers display the same sort of thing- they misinterpret photos of engineering/science that they're almost completely ignorant of and come up with some really strange conclusions that they just don't know enough to ever question.

Some folks here have already said that the questions Yankee is so insistent folks answer are irrelevant, even though they've been answered, and I think that's right. But that insistent repetition is a CT tactic- it keeps the focus where they want it, which is anywhere but on the specifics of the "engineering" (so to speak) of their own idea. This sort of thing is a faith, which by its nature is to be maintained, not tested. And Yankee's made it untestable anyway- when he says that pretty much everyone is in on it ("the leaders of most of the world’s nations, media, businesses, law enforcement, and what passes for academia"), he makes it unfalsifiable. Questions about reality are only meaningful if they're asked in good faith, which is to say on the understanding that they're open-ended and may lead to unwanted answers. Needless to say, these are not the sort of questions Yankee is asking- he's not really asking anything at all, just putting a misleading mark on the end of bad faith statements that he thinks are The TruthTM but have nothing to do with what's just true.
Then perhaps, in good faith you can explain why there is no evidence of floor material above the lobby. Maybe you mentioned it earlier but I must have missed it. There is evidence of where the lobby ceiling met the spandrel, but there is no evidence of where the floors met the spandrels above that level. Do you understand?

http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uplo...-windows-1.jpg

Last edited by yankee451; 25th January 2018 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 25th January 2018, 03:19 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
here is an article discussing in depth the failures of the systems in the WTC that our correspondent claims wasn't there:

https://app.aws.org/wj/supplement/WJ_2007_09_s263.pdf
Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Then perhaps, in good faith you can explain why there is no evidence of floor material above the lobby. Maybe you mentioned it earlier but I must have missed it. There is evidence of where the lobby ceiling met the spandrel, but there is no evidence of where the floors met the spandrels above that level. Do you understand?

http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uplo...-windows-1.jpg
Explained already multiple times in the last thread and this thread.
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Old 25th January 2018, 03:41 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
There is evidence of where the lobby ceiling met the spandrel, but there is no evidence of where the floors met the spandrels above that level.
Please explain why you would expect to see evidence of concrete floors after a failure of column connection in this type of structure?

We'll wait for your complete explanation here. I have no need to click on your site.
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Old 25th January 2018, 03:43 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
Please explain why you would expect to see evidence of concrete floors after a failure of column connection in this type of structure?

We'll wait for your complete explanation here. I have no need to click on your site.
If you won't even click on a link, then you will be ignored.
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Old 25th January 2018, 03:45 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Explained already multiple times in the last thread and this thread.
Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
If you won't even click on a link, then you will be ignored.
Ah, guess not so interested in the Truth.

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Old 25th January 2018, 04:29 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Then perhaps, in good faith you can explain why there is no evidence of floor material above the lobby. Maybe you mentioned it earlier but I must have missed it. There is evidence of where the lobby ceiling met the spandrel, but there is no evidence of where the floors met the spandrels above that level. Do you understand?

http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uplo...-windows-1.jpg
Huh. It's almost like you read what I wrote, but mostly like you didn't- or at least didn't understand it.

You know, in a way, it's hard for me not to sympathize with you a little. Your heart, at least, seems to be in the right place, against war. The problem is your heart is leading but your brain refuses to engage. And for all the good your "concerned grandpa" routine will ever do, you might just as well spend your time with the grandkids crooning- "War! Huh! Good god, ya'll! What is it good for? Absolutely nuthin'!" At least your message would get across more cleanly without the idiotic baggage you've bound it to.
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Old 25th January 2018, 04:36 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
If you won't even click on a link, then you will be ignored.
That's what I figured. It's all about the clicks, no actually content to be seen. If there was you could explain it here. Ignore away oh seeker of clicks.
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Old 25th January 2018, 04:37 PM   #191
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What we are witnessing is the manifesto of yankee451, the Unatruther. We can search the internet to find his manifesto, a tale of a Dystopian world, where he is the only one who sees what he claims to see, in photos which prove he might need glasses, or suffers from vision problems. Can an eye-doctor be the cure for the unchecked fantasy claims?

It is funny, if "we" (me and the mouse) search his photo array which he has build the woo world of an inside job; 'we' can find yankee451's photos titled clean uniforms, and zooming in we see dirty uniforms. Eye exam needed...

yankee451 says, in his fantasy world a fleat AGM-158 JASSM did the damage to the WTC and in PA. (without thinking about the physics, without thinking)

yankee451 knows for a fact (in his fantasy world) he lives in a Dystopian society where news is controlled, and fake. (irony)

Unable to explain his claims, the unatruther spreads his manifesto, and like most 9/11 truthers, is just asking questions (thinking his inability to find answer to his questions, are evidence for his fleet of JASSMs, and his other paranoid claims.

Quixotic quest for truth for his grandkids future highlighted by nonsensical claims, outright lies of a gutted WTC.

Is yankee451 stuck in a snowbound cabin, working on his unatruther manifesto, bombing the living daylights out of the truth, spreading lies about the WTC and the people murdered by 19 terrorists - and he spreads those lies to save his grandkids.

What does yankee451 believe, why does he lie about 9/11.
Quote:
Politics changes nothing; by voting all you're doing is supporting a system of violence, plunder and slavery. The only way to fight this system is to stop participating.

Make as little taxable income as possible, barter, don't use credit, stop giving them your blessing by "voting" for them (the wars never stop, regardless who is elected) and truly live as simply as possible so as to support the system as little as possible. - yankee451
Join the "fight", spread lies about 9/11?

Need proof yankee451 can't do physics - he freely gives it.
Quote:
It doesn't bode well for the gene pool to have people believing mostly hollow aluminum jets can burrow into the ground, bore through concrete buildings and slice steel skyscrapers like a hot knife through butter. The truth may hurt, but it really does set you free, and that is, any nation not calling ******** on 9/11 and the war on terror has a lot of explaining to do. The bigger the lie the easier it is to be believed, but impossible is impossible even if presidents, professors, generals and news-anchors say otherwise.
- yankee451
Only yankee451 knows the truth.


gene pool? lol, take physics please yankee451, do reality based research, stop writing fiction.


Adopting a name based on a work of fiction about a dystopian society, yankee451 thinks he is the hero? But he is spreading lies.
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Old 25th January 2018, 04:40 PM   #192
yankee451
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
Huh. It's almost like you read what I wrote, but mostly like you didn't- or at least didn't understand it.

You know, in a way, it's hard for me not to sympathize with you a little. Your heart, at least, seems to be in the right place, against war. The problem is your heart is leading but your brain refuses to engage. And for all the good your "concerned grandpa" routine will ever do, you might just as well spend your time with the grandkids crooning- "War! Huh! Good god, ya'll! What is it good for? Absolutely nuthin'!" At least your message would get across more cleanly without the idiotic baggage you've bound it to.
It takes no time at all to verify whether or not someone is talking out their backside. I hear you but I don't see you addressing the evidence that leads to my conclusions.
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Old 25th January 2018, 04:42 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
That's what I figured. It's all about the clicks, no actually content to be seen. If there was you could explain it here. Ignore away oh seeker of clicks.
Is that what you figured? Why, is that what you would do? You see if I provide a link to a photo along with an explanation of what to look at in the photo, but you refuse to look at the photo, why would I want to talk to you?
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Old 25th January 2018, 04:47 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
To be fair, people generally avoid steaming piles of crap.
Except when the authorities are doing the shoveling, then it's all you can eat!
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Old 25th January 2018, 04:47 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Is that what you figured? Why, is that what you would do? You see if I provide a link to a photo along with an explanation of what to look at in the photo, but you refuse to look at the photo, why would I want to talk to you?
Answer my direct question above and I'll tell you. You don't need pictures or websites for that.

I'll repeat the question to make it easy:

Please explain why you would expect to see evidence of concrete floors after a failure of column connection in this type of structure?
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Last edited by DGM; 25th January 2018 at 04:53 PM.
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Old 25th January 2018, 04:51 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Is that what you figured? Why, is that what you would do? You see if I provide a link to a photo along with an explanation of what to look at in the photo, but you refuse to look at the photo, why would I want to talk to you?
BECAUSE: Remember we know you are pretending or delusional enough to believe that the towers were empty, we all know you are wrong in this so everything from that point is empty nonsense.

No one wants to oblige you and act like your stuff is real.

Why don't you understand that?
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Old 25th January 2018, 05:00 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
That's what I figured. It's all about the clicks, no actually content to be seen. If there was you could explain it here. Ignore away oh seeker of clicks.
indeed. lol

Last edited by Whip; 25th January 2018 at 05:05 PM.
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Old 25th January 2018, 05:03 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
The best reason to assume the core could not stand alone longer than a few minutes would be that it wasn't designed to be able to stand alone. Wind loads were dealt with by the perimeter in conjunction with floor systems and core. Take away any component, and the structure is mostly doomed. 1300 ft tall structure do not remain standing by chance.
The core did not have the windage that the facade had so the facade ADDED wind load not mitigated it.

Since all buildings have skins they have increased windage and have to have some means to resist the bending force of the wind. The facade was a tube which is stiffer than a plane because it has two sides which act as stiffeners...

The core was part of the wind resistance strategy because it function as a stiff spine. The floor plates held the buildings side square and transfer lateral loads to the stiff core. A facade by itself would be blown over by the wind.


"For framed tube structures the lateral resistance is given by very stiff moment resisting
frames that form a tube around the perimeter of the building. The frames
consists of closely spaced columns, 2–4 meters between centres, connected by girders.
The tube carries all the lateral load and the self-weight is distributed between the
outer tube and the interior columns or walls. For the lateral loading the perimeter
frames aligned in the load direction acts as webs of the tube cantilever and those
perpendicular to the load direction acts as flanges"

from STRUCTURAL DESIGN OF HIGH-RISE BUILDINGS by ERIK HALLEBRAND and WILHELM JAKOBSSON
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Last edited by JSanderO; 25th January 2018 at 05:11 PM.
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Old 25th January 2018, 05:14 PM   #199
DGM
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Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post

The core was part of the wind resistance strategy because it function as a stiff spine.
That's not true. The core as wind resistance only transferred perimeter lateral loads among the faces. It had no real lateral stiffness of it's own.

Your reference implies this.
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Last edited by DGM; 25th January 2018 at 05:17 PM.
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Old 25th January 2018, 05:16 PM   #200
yankee451
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Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post
The core did not have the windage that the facade had so the facade ADDED wind load not mitigated it.

Since all buildings have skins they have increased windage and have to have some means to resist the bending force of the wind. The facade was a tube which is stiffer than a plane because it has two sides which act as stiffeners...

The core was part of the wind resistance strategy because it function as a stiff spine. The floor plates held the buildings side square and transfer lateral loads to the stiff core. A facade by itself would be blown over by the wind.


"For framed tube structures the lateral resistance is given by very stiff moment resisting
frames that form a tube around the perimeter of the building. The frames
consists of closely spaced columns, 2–4 meters between centres, connected by girders.
The tube carries all the lateral load and the self-weight is distributed between the
outer tube and the interior columns or walls. For the lateral loading the perimeter
frames aligned in the load direction acts as webs of the tube cantilever and those
perpendicular to the load direction acts as flanges"

from STRUCTURAL DESIGN OF HIGH-RISE BUILDINGS by ERIK HALLEBRAND and WILHELM JAKOBSSON

Translation: let's talk about anything other than the subject at hand!
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