IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories » 9/11 Conspiracy Theories
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 11th October 2013, 09:06 AM   #361
Mark F
Graduate Poster
 
Mark F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,744
I don't know about the rest of you but I have had enough of this endless, circular game of whack-a-mole where we cover the same tired old Truther meme's over and over and over again. I would humbly submit that the only truly useful thing that can happen right now is for SoG to put up or shut up and present us with his comprehensive, detailed hypothesis of everything that happened on 9/11 and why. No more cherry-picking and quote mining, no more isolated anomalies, no more "I don't understand it so it couldn't have happened that way.

SoG, tell us, in detail, everything that happened that day explaining who did it, what they did, when they did it, how they did it and most importantly, why? And please do it in a way that isn't laughably stupid.

You started in this thread with the claim that real-estate developer Larry Silverstein did 9/11 as a scam to get insurance money from the Salomon Brothers Building (7 World Trade Center), the only building in the WTC complex Silverstein actually owned and that he enlisted the assistance of the New York City Fire Department to pull it off. OK then:

1. If this was a lucrative insurance scam why bother since his losses and expenses (not including the payouts to his thousands of co-conspirators) were more than double his claim payouts?

2. What could he gain anyway since the insurance money HAD to be used to rebuild on the same site? He couldn't run off to Jamaica with it.

3. What does the FDNY have to gain that is worth murdering 343 of their brothers so a real estate tycoon can lose billions of dollars? Why would they go along with it?

4. How did the FDNY pull it off since never before in history have they blown up any building and we all know that if something has never happened before it can never happen?

5. How and when did they get the charges in there?

6. How did the charges survive 7+ hours of raging fires?

7. Why even wait that long, why not blow the building when the twin towers fell? What purpose does it serve the plot to wait?

8. What kind of explosives did they use that produce no noise, no flash, no blast, no shockwave and no high-velocity ejecta?

9. Why bother at all since we know the building was by mid-afternoon dangerously unstable and in danger of imminent collapse all on its own?

10. How did Larry S convince a bunch of Jihadi's to crash airplanes into the twin towers, the Pentagon and a field in Pennsylvania to cover up his little insurance scam?

11. More importantly, why even bother with all that unnecessary complication when he could have just hired two skinheads to make a McViegh bomb to bring down 7 instead of involving thousands of people on his scam who might trip up and accidently spill the beans on national TV like he supposedly did?

12. Why involve the President and the Secret Service since you clearly believe their actions on that morning indicate they knew what Larry was up to. How much of the insurance money did Larry have to split with the FDNY, the Jihadi’s, the POTUS and the Secret Service?

13. Why would Larry casually admit to the whole thing on national TV with no prodding and under no duress whatsoever? If he is really THAT SLOPPY wouldn't the whole plan have un-raveled long before then?

I could keep going but I hope everyone gets the idea.

Until SoG can provide us with a detailed timeline that explains ALL of the events of that day in a way that does not cause uncontrollable laughter, there is nothing to discuss. All he has so far is a bunch of disconnected anomalies and things he doesn’t understand.

Where is the prima facie case?
__________________
So I'm going to tell you what the facts are, and the facts are the facts, but then we know the truth. That always overcomes facts.

Last edited by Mark F; 11th October 2013 at 09:07 AM.
Mark F is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2013, 09:57 AM   #362
twinstead
Penultimate Amazing
 
twinstead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,374
Originally Posted by Mark F View Post
I don't know about the rest of you but I have had enough of this endless, circular game of whack-a-mole where we cover the same tired old Truther meme's over and over and over again. I would humbly submit that the only truly useful thing that can happen right now is for SoG to put up or shut up and present us with his comprehensive, detailed hypothesis of everything that happened on 9/11 and why. No more cherry-picking and quote mining, no more isolated anomalies, no more "I don't understand it so it couldn't have happened that way.

SoG, tell us, in detail, everything that happened that day explaining who did it, what they did, when they did it, how they did it and most importantly, why? And please do it in a way that isn't laughably stupid.

You started in this thread with the claim that real-estate developer Larry Silverstein did 9/11 as a scam to get insurance money from the Salomon Brothers Building (7 World Trade Center), the only building in the WTC complex Silverstein actually owned and that he enlisted the assistance of the New York City Fire Department to pull it off. OK then:

1. If this was a lucrative insurance scam why bother since his losses and expenses (not including the payouts to his thousands of co-conspirators) were more than double his claim payouts?

2. What could he gain anyway since the insurance money HAD to be used to rebuild on the same site? He couldn't run off to Jamaica with it.

3. What does the FDNY have to gain that is worth murdering 343 of their brothers so a real estate tycoon can lose billions of dollars? Why would they go along with it?

4. How did the FDNY pull it off since never before in history have they blown up any building and we all know that if something has never happened before it can never happen?

5. How and when did they get the charges in there?

6. How did the charges survive 7+ hours of raging fires?

7. Why even wait that long, why not blow the building when the twin towers fell? What purpose does it serve the plot to wait?

8. What kind of explosives did they use that produce no noise, no flash, no blast, no shockwave and no high-velocity ejecta?

9. Why bother at all since we know the building was by mid-afternoon dangerously unstable and in danger of imminent collapse all on its own?

10. How did Larry S convince a bunch of Jihadi's to crash airplanes into the twin towers, the Pentagon and a field in Pennsylvania to cover up his little insurance scam?

11. More importantly, why even bother with all that unnecessary complication when he could have just hired two skinheads to make a McViegh bomb to bring down 7 instead of involving thousands of people on his scam who might trip up and accidently spill the beans on national TV like he supposedly did?

12. Why involve the President and the Secret Service since you clearly believe their actions on that morning indicate they knew what Larry was up to. How much of the insurance money did Larry have to split with the FDNY, the Jihadi’s, the POTUS and the Secret Service?

13. Why would Larry casually admit to the whole thing on national TV with no prodding and under no duress whatsoever? If he is really THAT SLOPPY wouldn't the whole plan have un-raveled long before then?

I could keep going but I hope everyone gets the idea.

Until SoG can provide us with a detailed timeline that explains ALL of the events of that day in a way that does not cause uncontrollable laughter, there is nothing to discuss. All he has so far is a bunch of disconnected anomalies and things he doesn’t understand.

Where is the prima facie case?
You just suck the fun out of everything, don't you?
__________________
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -- Harlan Ellison
twinstead is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2013, 10:25 AM   #363
Mark F
Graduate Poster
 
Mark F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,744
Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
You just suck the fun out of everything, don't you?
I can't think of anything more entertaining than a Truther actually presenting a well-reasoned, comprehensive, prima facie case.

But since it has never been done before I could be wrong.

Hey, have we just discovered the first actual example of something that can not happen because it has never happened before?
__________________
So I'm going to tell you what the facts are, and the facts are the facts, but then we know the truth. That always overcomes facts.

Last edited by Mark F; 11th October 2013 at 10:27 AM.
Mark F is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2013, 10:33 AM   #364
Andy_Ross
Penultimate Amazing
 
Andy_Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 47,040
Originally Posted by sonofgloin View Post
No planer is a no brainer for some, but I will wait until the Pentagon releases any of the multiple angle surveillance video that they have not released to dispel any myths.

God Dafydd you do have a working funny bone, that is the most astute comment to date...thanks pal...

I know...it's great....

Re the passengers, not much of them left, you have to wonder...plane hits rock or compacted earth....bodies found each and every time. Shanksville, plane hits soft fill and nothing big enough to put in a body bag and the plane as good as disintegrates.Where is the physics in that?
What video would that be?

You didn't say weather you think aircraft crashed at the Pentagon and Shanksville
Andy_Ross is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2013, 10:40 AM   #365
dafydd
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 35,398
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post

You didn't say weather you think aircraft crashed at the Pentagon and Shanksville
Why is it so hard to get a yes or no answer out of a truther? Sonofgloin, yes or no?
dafydd is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2013, 11:18 AM   #366
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
 
DGM's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,748
Originally Posted by sonofgloin View Post
No planer is a no brainer for some, but I will wait until the Pentagon releases any of the multiple angle surveillance video that they have not released to dispel any myths.
Why do you believe there would be "multiple angle surveillance" video?

Maybe at the doors but, looking up in the sky? You know people saw the planes and the wreckage and bodies were recovered.

By the way, what happened to all the planes and passengers?

Do you at least have a hypothesis (I know a theory would be too much to ask)?
__________________
"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley

"How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41
DGM is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2013, 11:58 AM   #367
beachnut
Penultimate Amazing
 
beachnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 26,122
Originally Posted by sonofgloin View Post
... Re the passengers, not much of them left, you have to wonder...plane hits rock or compacted earth....bodies found each and every time. Shanksville, plane hits soft fill and nothing big enough to put in a body bag and the plane as good as disintegrates.Where is the physics in that?
Where is your 500 mph impact with rock and compacted earth?

At 500 mph not much is left. It is a physics problem, and as you said, you don't like the math, the energy equal to 1400 pounds of TNT; it leave you in the darkness of ignorance. Where in that ignorance you make up lies that are dumber than dirt.

All the planes were tracked by RADAR proving each one existed from takeoff to impact. But that is science, and god forbid you would use reality based evidence to form conclusions, it would ruin your perfect record of woo.

What would a Kinetic Energy impact equal in energy to 1400 pounds of TNT do to a body? Exactly, you can't do the math or science to break away from your silly disrespectful nonsense.

Wait, you can't handle the equal to TNT stuff; let me do the Joules which you can't do. 2,930,000,000 Joules for the impact energy, aka E=1/2mv2
All wasted, because you don't do, you can't do, science; you do woo. Flight 93 passengers figured out 911 in minutes, beating you by 12 years.


Ghoul physics.
Why are the bodies of humans not found in crashes of 500 mph? If someone looks at E=1/2MV2, we see the V term. Velocity is squared - Speed Kills (the hurt physics, not the chemical side)

It takes ~19,000,000 joules to essentially destroy a human body to where you and fantasy minded people say there is no body. But the body is there, you don't see it. Might be a hand and a bone, but you can't google up the hard stuff, you only google woo.

When a body drops from a building why is the body in one piece - because the kinetic energy a body reaches at terminal velocity is ~156,800 joules.

Why are bodies in normal aircraft accidents usually in one piece?
Slow speed crashes, like the design impact for the World Trade Center have kinetic energy ~386,000,000 joules. In slow speed crashes, not only is there only enough energy to destroy 20 human bodies into pieces, the energy goes into breaking the plane, only enough energy left over to kill you like you fell off a building using up 150,000 joules, or so.

Flight 93 had 2,930,000,000 joules, enough energy to destroy 154.2 bodies. If we take half of the energy to destroy the aircraft, we have enough to turn 70 bodies into tiny pieces. The seats behind you crush you at 500 mph, into pieces, at 500 mph. People who can't do physics can't grasp the velocity squared term in the kinetic energy equation, so they make up idiotic fantasy - they can't do the math. They do woo.

911 truth can't do Physics. The hornet's nest does physics. Woo from 911 truth, physics from hornets. Think the analogies of 911 truth woo pushers are an attempt at comedy, where as their claims are comedy.
The Hornet's Nest, where 911 truth lies is are stung by the truth

Last edited by beachnut; 11th October 2013 at 01:53 PM.
beachnut is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2013, 02:19 PM   #368
Redwood
Graduate Poster
 
Redwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,557
Originally Posted by sonofgloin View Post

WTC 7 was behind 5 and 6 so the debris strike was minimal in comparison. While we are talking minimal, the "collapse" of Building 7 was remarkably tidy. Even though it was sandwiched between the Verizon building and Post Office building, it barely damaged either of them. Unusual you said before about the plane crash, unusual again at the WTC.

This is the first time I've heard a truther argue that the 600 ft WTC 7 was shielded by the low-rises 5&6. Congratulations! First time in history!

Looks like a pretty deep gouge in WTC 7. While it didn't figure in directly as the proximate cause of the collapse. It certainly provided plenty of ventilation for the fires, and probably did figure into the details of the collapse once it started.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg WTC7 Gash4.JPG (31.0 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg wtc7getting hit by WTC 1 debris.jpg (64.8 KB, 5 views)
Redwood is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2013, 04:29 PM   #369
Grizzly Bear
このマスクによっ
 
Grizzly Bear's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7,866
Arguing no-planes in any of the three incidents requires ignoring overwhelming physical evidence concluding the the opposite... If people arguing this stuff are willing to ignore that much is there much point at this time in musing on it? The "problem" with those arguments is known to the the point that it can't be simplified or reduced any further. I find that the "truther" side of this particular argument is very much akin to arguing politics... belief overrides factuality... I'm not sure you can ever explain the issue clearly enough to make that apparent
__________________

Last edited by Grizzly Bear; 11th October 2013 at 04:31 PM.
Grizzly Bear is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2013, 05:31 PM   #370
ozeco41
Philosopher
 
ozeco41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Moss Vale, NSW, Australia
Posts: 7,617
Originally Posted by Redwood View Post
This is the first time I've heard a truther argue that the 600 ft WTC 7 was shielded by the low-rises 5&6. Congratulations! First time in history!
He's an Aussie. Remember that, for us, up and down are reversed from your way of viewing things. This may help you understand:
ozeco41 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2013, 07:18 PM   #371
swright777
Muse
 
swright777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 897
Never mind. Someone covered it above.

Last edited by swright777; 11th October 2013 at 07:28 PM.
swright777 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th October 2013, 09:18 PM   #372
Robrob
Philosopher
 
Robrob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,497
Originally Posted by sonofgloin View Post
Re the passengers, not much of them left, you have to wonder...plane hits rock or compacted earth....bodies found each and every time. Shanksville, plane hits soft fill and nothing big enough to put in a body bag and the plane as good as disintegrates.Where is the physics in that?
So all it would take is to show you one single time when bodies were not found and you'd immediately admit you were wrong?
__________________
Mister Earl: "The plural of bollocks is not evidence."
Robrob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2013, 03:26 AM   #373
dafydd
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 35,398
Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
Where is your 500 mph impact with rock and compacted earth?

At 500 mph not much is left. It is a physics problem, and as you said, you don't like the math, the energy equal to 1400 pounds of TNT; it leave you in the darkness of ignorance. Where in that ignorance you make up lies that are dumber than dirt.

All the planes were tracked by RADAR proving each one existed from takeoff to impact. But that is science, and god forbid you would use reality based evidence to form conclusions, it would ruin your perfect record of woo.

What would a Kinetic Energy impact equal in energy to 1400 pounds of TNT do to a body? Exactly, you can't do the math or science to break away from your silly disrespectful nonsense.

Wait, you can't handle the equal to TNT stuff; let me do the Joules which you can't do. 2,930,000,000 Joules for the impact energy, aka E=1/2mv2
All wasted, because you don't do, you can't do, science; you do woo. Flight 93 passengers figured out 911 in minutes, beating you by 12 years.


Ghoul physics.
Why are the bodies of humans not found in crashes of 500 mph? If someone looks at E=1/2MV2, we see the V term. Velocity is squared - Speed Kills (the hurt physics, not the chemical side)

It takes ~19,000,000 joules to essentially destroy a human body to where you and fantasy minded people say there is no body. But the body is there, you don't see it. Might be a hand and a bone, but you can't google up the hard stuff, you only google woo.

When a body drops from a building why is the body in one piece - because the kinetic energy a body reaches at terminal velocity is ~156,800 joules.

Why are bodies in normal aircraft accidents usually in one piece?
Slow speed crashes, like the design impact for the World Trade Center have kinetic energy ~386,000,000 joules. In slow speed crashes, not only is there only enough energy to destroy 20 human bodies into pieces, the energy goes into breaking the plane, only enough energy left over to kill you like you fell off a building using up 150,000 joules, or so.

Flight 93 had 2,930,000,000 joules, enough energy to destroy 154.2 bodies. If we take half of the energy to destroy the aircraft, we have enough to turn 70 bodies into tiny pieces. The seats behind you crush you at 500 mph, into pieces, at 500 mph. People who can't do physics can't grasp the velocity squared term in the kinetic energy equation, so they make up idiotic fantasy - they can't do the math. They do woo.

911 truth can't do Physics. The hornet's nest does physics. Woo from 911 truth, physics from hornets. Think the analogies of 911 truth woo pushers are an attempt at comedy, where as their claims are comedy.
The Hornet's Nest, where 911 truth lies is are stung by the truth
There you go again, confusing twoofers with facts and physics. You know it upsets them.
dafydd is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2013, 08:15 AM   #374
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: I live in a swamp
Posts: 27,710
Originally Posted by sonofgloin View Post
YL, George was the President, he sent the troops to war over 911 and you reckon he had a brain freeze. Ask anyone of age where they were when they heard that Elvis had sadly died....and they can tell you, but George can't get his 911 story straight. Give me a break.

Yes it is of itself unusual as to how many "firsts" linger around 911.

I agree YL, over time memory like rivers change courses. But all the video I supplied had on the spot, covered with rubble covered witnesses. The real time news reports had an ongoing theme of explosions. Time did not corrupt their testimony; they related what happened minutes ago. If you don’t recall that take more fish oil.

WTC 7 was behind 5 and 6 so the debris strike was minimal in comparison. While we are talking minimal, the "collapse" of Building 7 was remarkably tidy. Even though it was sandwiched between the Verizon building and Post Office building, it barely damaged either of them. Unusual you said before about the plane crash, unusual again at the WTC.

Daffyd you would swear to anything as long as it denigrated your interlocutor...what a surprise comment.

Dafydd, I am talking explosions, I am talking demolished within its own footprint, I am talking about the unprecedented collapse of high rises by fire or plane strike....and you can't establish my scenario?


Yes you certainly have a point Jay, especially the video evidence. Why did a load of people and fire-fighters say on video at the scene in real time say that there are explosions happening?

About your secret service evaluation sport. The facts were that there were an unknown number of hijacked aircraft wandering across the sky and the President was at a public location. But the secret service did not even remove George to the safety of the armoured Presidential Limousine. That’s exactly what they do in the case of a real surprise attack. They don't do anything else if the limousine is the only explosive secure area.....immediately, without hesitation.

Yes and WTC 7 collapsed in sympathy, without the use of an air liner.

Mark the closest I have come to dazed and confused is via Led Zeppelin.
My fellow posters continually threaten not to give me an answer because whatever it is they are saying it is sacrosanct. You have failed to expand on my deferrals to Frank Lowy when I mention Larry's business. Larry is not a just a realtor from Brooklyn....unconnected to the apparatus of power, as I said look up Frank Lowy....both of them fit perfectly with their list of tenants at the time.

Well sport given the plane weighed about 180,000 pound I expected more than a small truck load, the odd tyre, the odd scrap of metal

Silly comment BA.....but three first at one time.....maybe..

Animal the whole area was reclaimed coal mines, the fill was loose waste and soil, small particles very soft. One of my queries with the impact is that in soft fill with equilateral resistance why did one flight recorder end up a load deeper than the other given they sit side by side in the plane?

God Jack, light up the torches and rouse the villagers, Jack is rallying the other non "takers" to action....I'm around here too Jack me lad, or am I not invited to the mob uprising. Stick your head out the window and yell "I'm as mad as hell and I am not going to take anyone disagreeing with me any more...then have an aspirin.

No Jack he does go on to explain:
"No bodies, no wreckage, no noise."

No way TS, Daffyd has only contributed sneers thus far, a running Goebbels style commentary, and good luck to him, it is after all part of the whole.

They used to before 911 tiger.

Nothing at the Pentagon crash, and that one was horizontal...an odd wheel here an odd small metal piece there...but enough documentation survived to name names...sure thing DGM.

I’ll be back.
When you come back tell us what you think happened.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2013, 09:18 AM   #375
dafydd
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 35,398
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
When you come back tell us what you think happened.
Truthers seem to have no full theory of what happened.
dafydd is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2013, 01:06 PM   #376
SUSpilot
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,159
"24 hard facts about 9/11 that cannot be debunked"

Originally Posted by indio007 View Post
Why 24 reasons when all you need is one?
Jet A does not explode at sea level.
40 years of data from NASA , FAA, DOT, Army Corp of Engineers and Caltech's Explosion Research Team investigation of TWA 800

David Handshuh's (NY Post) photo proves there was an explosion and not a flashover.
Jet A fuel is a nonflammable under domestic law.

From
A Review of the Flammability
Hazard of Jet A Fuel Vapor in Civil
Transport Aircraft Fuel Tanks
FAA/DOT Office of Aviation Research
Well, you're wrong about jet fuel not being considered flammable under domestic law. Every reference to Jet-A in 49CFR172.101 lists it as UN1863, hazard class 3, which is flammable liquid.
SUSpilot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2013, 01:51 PM   #377
Travis
Misanthrope of the Mountains
 
Travis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 24,133
Originally Posted by sonofgloin View Post
No planer is a no brainer for some, but I will wait until the Pentagon releases any of the multiple angle surveillance video that they have not released to dispel any myths.
Well, since such videos only ever existed in your imagination you'll be waiting a bit. Seriously, why do you think these exist?



Originally Posted by sonofgloin View Post
Re the passengers, not much of them left, you have to wonder...plane hits rock or compacted earth....bodies found each and every time.
No. I can recall a military jet that crashed not far from where I live a long time ago. It also went into the ground almost straight down at 600 mph and there was not much left of the plane or the poor pilot.

Originally Posted by sonofgloin View Post
Shanksville, plane hits soft fill and nothing big enough to put in a body bag and the plane as good as disintegrates.Where is the physics in that?
Here's an experiment you can do. Put a frog into an air cannon (please find one already dead) fire at mound of gravel and dirt at 600 mph. Report your findings.
__________________
"Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com
Zingiber Officinale

Travis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2013, 02:44 PM   #378
Robrob
Philosopher
 
Robrob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,497
Originally Posted by Travis View Post
No. I can recall a military jet that crashed not far from where I live a long time ago. It also went into the ground almost straight down at 600 mph and there was not much left of the plane or the poor pilot.
That is the key element all Truthers seem to overlook in their claims. The vast majority of crashes you see on TV (where Truthers obtain their education) were on take off or landing approaches when the engines lost power, etc... and the pilots did their best for a soft slow speed belly landing.

Strangely, the Truthers always seem to ignore the high speed and near vertical impacts. You know, the ones like on 9/11?
__________________
Mister Earl: "The plural of bollocks is not evidence."
Robrob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2013, 05:19 PM   #379
sonofgloin
Thinker
 
sonofgloin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 215
Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
So you are not a no-planer. We are getting somewhere. Where did you study physics and air crash investigation? How many planes planes crashes have you investigated in situ?
Happy to oblige, only after all here who have posted anything regarding the "crash" to do the same......we have to keep this relative.
Speaking of relative, on one hand some proffer that the “softness” of the reclaimed land buried or swallowed the body of the plane while claiming it disintegrated and that suggests an unyielding impact area.
Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
The reason why I'd like a second opinion is...I DON'T THINK YOU KNOW WHAT THE HELL YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, and it's irritating that you apparently think you do. There. I feel better now. Carry on.
TS, if feel your frustration, but I am still not convinced that the official story if fact, and I don't have a dog in this fight....I subscribe to no other conspiracy theories, it's not a hobby.
Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
You say you read my post yet nowyou post as if you cannot recall what I wrote.
Staying where he cannot be seen, 1300 miles away from where the planes are hitting buildings, in a structure that would be much less identifiable from the air than the large office structures being hit in the NE, IS the safest place to be. No doubt about it.
Once again Jay, if your assailants position is unknown and your position is, then you move to the another secure location....the bomb proof limo for instance.

Quote:
However, let's say you are correct, as inescapably stupid as that is. You are then saying that every member of the Secret Service squad assigned to GWB was in-on-it. They all knew that when something happened on sept11/01 that the President was not to be moved because he would be in no danger.
Conspiracy is a single digit number, the soldiers are paid to soldier, they take orders and they toe the company line.
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Explain why there should have been more human remains.
What I said to Jay as to how compact the earth was is relevant. Soft earth, more energy absorbtion.

Mark I need more time, got to fly, I’ll be back.
sonofgloin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2013, 06:44 PM   #380
beachnut
Penultimate Amazing
 
beachnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 26,122
Originally Posted by sonofgloin View Post
... Mark I need more time, got to fly, I’ll be back.
You spent how much time failing to understand 911? Is your lack of time doing rational research the reason you post nonsense about 911? You need more time? You failed to spend time in the first place, as you google your way to BS and lies.

More time, how long did it take you to miss Larry was talking about fire support? 12 years? Is this one of your "hard facts", based on lack of comprehension what someone is talking about?
Originally Posted by sonofgloin View Post
Larry Silverstein makes a statement that he never repeats or acknowledges again. ...

12 years and you can't figure out 911, or explain the story you have for your fantasy inside job. How does this "hard fact" fit?
Originally Posted by sonofgloin View Post
. ....why did the secret service leave the president sitting at the school after the second strike given his presence there was on the public calendar, that aint in the rule book. .....
How does this support 911 truth claims? What does it mean? Nothing. It is a "hard fact" 911 truth failed out of the box.

Then comes ignorance on engineering, by bringing up experiments, and not applying the results correctly for 911. The test prove steel fails. Did you read them? No. You don't have time.
Originally Posted by sonofgloin View Post
... in 1996 the British Building Research Establishment and British Steel performed a series of six experiments to investigate the behavior of steel frame buildings. These experiments were conducted in a simulated, eight-story building. Secondary steel beams were not protected. ... .
Another "hard fact" ends up being nothing of value, more like soft woo - another item can't be explained, but you think you did.


Originally Posted by sonofgloin View Post
Bodies hitting the ground sounds like charges.....rediculous BN. ...
I gave you the reference, and you did not have time. You imply explosives were used on 911, supporting that nonsense with quote-mined stuff, you don't even recognized when explained. Is due to time? You post woo because you don't have time to look up stuff, or check the google junk you repeat? Why does 911 truth quote-mine and not check the "hard facts"? Can you explain why, and how it relates to failure to figure out 911 after 12 years?
You don't have time to retract the false stuff? Why not, you posted it.

Originally Posted by sonofgloin View Post
... You know that Minoru Yamasaki designed the World Trade Center towers to withstand a collision with a Boeing 707 airplane.....and they did....so it is still back to fire collapsing three steel framed buildings in one place for the first time in history.

For someone with no precedent data, you are welded onto the concept of fire being the agent.
And you can't figure out fire did it. Why? What is stopping you from getting help from structural engineers? What did it in your fantasy?
Why can't you prove it, or explain your story of 911? Not enough time?

You seem unable to understand the difference between 180 mph impact (design point for WTC aircraft impact - aka an accident), and a high speed impact at 590 mph, an act of terrorism by nuts.
Can you understand cars and speed? A study shows at 70 km/h 1 out of 10 die, but at 90 km/h, 8 out of 10 die. Physics at work. Do you understand physics? Do you have time to work on physics so you can understand 911? You sure have enough time to post false junk, but not enough to back it up, or retract it.

Then you post quote-mined junk about Flight 93 to spread more nonsense. Soft dirt, what about soft water? Why do you hate physics so much? Soft dirt? You don't have enough time to do the math, or study aircraft impacts, RADAR, FDR, DNA, NTSB, etc. But you have enough time to make silly claims you googled up from 911 truth.

Last edited by beachnut; 12th October 2013 at 07:21 PM.
beachnut is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2013, 07:08 PM   #381
Jrrarglblarg
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 12,673
Originally Posted by sonofgloin View Post
Speaking of relative, on one hand some proffer that the “softness” of the reclaimed land buried or swallowed the body of the plane while claiming it disintegrated and that suggests an unyielding impact area.

<blather snipped>

What I said to Jay as to how compact the earth was is relevant. Soft earth, more energy absorbtion..
How "soft" is Pennsylvania farmland? How much "energy absorption" capacity does it have? How much energy did flight 93 have at terminus?

Do you even understand the question?
Jrrarglblarg is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2013, 07:47 PM   #382
gumboot
lorcutus.tolere
 
gumboot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 25,327
Regarding Jet A fuel, I get the impression someone might be confusing "detonation" and "deflagration".

All detonations are explosions, and some deflagrations are explosions, but not all explosions are detonations, and no deflagrations are detonations.

Hope that clears things up.
__________________

O xein', angellein Lakedaimoniois hoti têde
keimetha tois keinon rhémasi peithomenoi.


A fan of fantasy? Check out Project Dreamforge.
gumboot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2013, 08:05 PM   #383
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 13,087
Originally Posted by sonofgloin View Post
Happy to oblige, only after all here who have posted anything regarding the "crash" to do the same......we have to keep this relative.
Speaking of relative, on one hand some proffer that the “softness” of the reclaimed land buried or swallowed the body of the plane while claiming it disintegrated and that suggests an unyielding impact area.


TS, if feel your frustration, but I am still not convinced that the official story if fact, and I don't have a dog in this fight....I subscribe to no other conspiracy theories, it's not a hobby.


Once again Jay, if your assailants position is unknown and your position is, then you move to the another secure location....the bomb proof limo for instance.



Conspiracy is a single digit number, the soldiers are paid to soldier, they take orders and they toe the company line.


What I said to Jay as to how compact the earth was is relevant. Soft earth, more energy absorbtion.

Mark I need more time, got to fly, I’ll be back.
Bolded: fail.
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2013, 09:00 PM   #384
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: I live in a swamp
Posts: 27,710
Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Bolded: fail.
Wow, this guy has never been around the military. That is so wrong it's funny. What does he think we are, galley slaves? Geeze, kid get out more.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th October 2013, 11:34 PM   #385
Robrob
Philosopher
 
Robrob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,497
Originally Posted by sonofgloin View Post
Happy to oblige, only after all here who have posted anything regarding the "crash" to do the same......we have to keep this relative.
The reason for the question is a number of members here have experience in those fields.

Quote:
Speaking of relative, on one hand some proffer that the “softness” of the reclaimed land buried or swallowed the body of the plane while claiming it disintegrated and that suggests an unyielding impact area.
The issue is a near vertical impact at maximum speeds.

Quote:
TS, if feel your frustration, but I am still not convinced that the official story if fact, and I don't have a dog in this fight....I subscribe to no other conspiracy theories, it's not a hobby.
In other words Just Asking Questions?

Quote:
Once again Jay, if your assailants position is unknown and your position is, then you move to the another secure location....the bomb proof limo for instance.
Once again Gloin, you are wrong and yet you keep insisting you are not in the face of people who know better. It causes us not to really take you all that seriously. Two planes hit the WTC - on the other side of the country - why would agents take the President out of a place of known safety to travel to a place of unknown safety?

Please, before you post again consider this; there are about 3,200 current Secret Service Agents. Add another 5-6,000 retired. Not to mention the tens of thousands of other professionals who currently or formerly have worked in personal protection.

How many of them agree with you?

Quote:
Conspiracy is a single digit number, the soldiers are paid to soldier, they take orders and they toe the company line.
This is the excuse of a CT for why there is no evidence supporting their theory. Normally, one would take the lack of evidence as an indication the theory is not correct.
__________________
Mister Earl: "The plural of bollocks is not evidence."
Robrob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th October 2013, 12:26 AM   #386
waypastvne
Muse
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 539
Originally Posted by sonofgloin View Post
Happy to oblige, only after all here who have posted anything regarding the "crash" to do the same......we have to keep this relative.

Fair enough mate, but could you at least give us a little insight into your level of aviation knowledge ? Here'a a few simple questions about aerodynamic forces. Can you answer them correctly? There are many members here who can.


You know how those wingy things on a airplane that are kind of curvy on the top and flatish on the bottom. That's called an AIRFOIL . Can you tell us what happens when you turn an airplane upside down and the flatish side is on the top and the curvy side is on the bottom.


Can you tell me what forces would be exerted on an inverted aircraft positive G's, and how these would differ from the forces on a non inverted aircraft, same angle, same speed ?

Here is a drawing of a 40 deg. inverted Boeing 757. I put some different coloured arrows on it. Can you tell us what force each of those different coloured arrows represents and a little explanation about each force?


[/url]

If you don't want to answer the question, you could just say, "I don't know a bloody thing about aerodynamics or forces so my bogan opinion on airplane crashes means bugger all".
waypastvne is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th October 2013, 01:10 AM   #387
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: I live in a swamp
Posts: 27,710
Originally Posted by sonofgloin View Post
snip

What I said to Jay as to how compact the earth was is relevant. Soft earth, more energy absorbtion.

snip.
Not good enough. You need to show your work. This is just your reasoning which is clearly faulty and not considering all factors.

Clearly it's important to you to believe something that is incorrect. Why is that? I have some ideas why you cling to your errors but I'd like to read it from you. Why be so committed to something you've put so little effort or thought into? It's odd to find someone so sure and so committed to something they've really expended no or little energy on.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th October 2013, 05:27 AM   #388
Animal
Master Poster
 
Animal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 2,097
Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
Truthers seem to have no full theory no clue of what happened.
FTFY
Animal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2013, 04:45 AM   #389
Mark F
Graduate Poster
 
Mark F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,744
Originally Posted by sonofgloin View Post
Mark I need more time, got to fly, I’ll be back.
4 days since I posted my challenge. What's the deal? I thought you were so sure of what really happened you could just answer something that simple on the fly?
__________________
So I'm going to tell you what the facts are, and the facts are the facts, but then we know the truth. That always overcomes facts.
Mark F is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2013, 06:07 AM   #390
dafydd
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 35,398
Originally Posted by Mark F View Post
I don't know about the rest of you but I have had enough of this endless, circular game of whack-a-mole where we cover the same tired old Truther meme's over and over and over again. I would humbly submit that the only truly useful thing that can happen right now is for SoG to put up or shut up and present us with his comprehensive, detailed hypothesis of everything that happened on 9/11 and why. No more cherry-picking and quote mining, no more isolated anomalies, no more "I don't understand it so it couldn't have happened that way.
I have asked that of every twoofer who washes up here. They don't have a comprehensive detailed hypothesis. And they wonder why nobody takes them seriously.
dafydd is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2013, 11:33 AM   #391
jaydeehess
Penultimate Amazing
 
jaydeehess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: 40 miles north of the border
Posts: 20,849
Originally Posted by sonofgloin View Post


Once again Jay, if your assailants position is unknown and your position is, then you move to the another secure location....the bomb proof limo for instance.
Nope, the one thing for certain is that your assailant is not where you are. Other certainties are that the attacks so far are taking place against massive targets in large centers, 1300 miles away. Best stay put and bolster security along any route to be taken. Stay put until the security of AF1 can be assured.

Quote:
Conspiracy is a single digit number, the soldiers are paid to soldier, they take orders and they toe the company line.
That is so wrong as to be laughable. No, soldiers play by the rules of soldiering and loyalty to the country. Being aware that they have been led into conspiracy to cover up treason and the murder of 3000 American citizens is so far outside anything they signed up for or swore allegiance to, that its a dead certainty that at least one would have come out with it. However, you managed to just skip, ignore, and brush aside the fact that there was simply no need to alter the alleged SOP. No need to have any Secret Service personell involved. Just let things play out in what you expect would be the normal fashion.
So, explain why the Secret Service SOP was altered.

Quote:
What I said to Jay as to how compact the earth was is relevant. Soft earth, more energy absorbtion.

.
I believe that previous comment was directed to dafydd, not me.

Last edited by jaydeehess; 15th October 2013 at 11:49 AM.
jaydeehess is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2013, 11:40 AM   #392
jaydeehess
Penultimate Amazing
 
jaydeehess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: 40 miles north of the border
Posts: 20,849
Originally Posted by gumboot View Post
Regarding Jet A fuel, I get the impression someone might be confusing "detonation" and "deflagration".

All detonations are explosions, and some deflagrations are explosions, but not all explosions are detonations, and no deflagrations are detonations.

Hope that clears things up.
Thank you GB. 'Deflagration' I just could not for the life of me recall that term. An detonation exploision would, involve a pressure wave propigating at greater than the speed of sound, while all deflagration involve subsonic propagation of a pressure wave, basically pressure wave propagates with flame front .
http://m.exponent.com/explosions/

Last edited by jaydeehess; 15th October 2013 at 11:48 AM.
jaydeehess is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2013, 11:43 AM   #393
dafydd
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 35,398
Originally Posted by Animal View Post
FTFY
I was being polite and giving sonofgloin the chance to break ranks and actually present a full theory. I'm trying to think of the name of the truther that we had here for a while. He promised to come back in a couple of weeks with his full theory. That was two years ago. Javaman, was that the name?
dafydd is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th October 2013, 03:40 AM   #394
twinstead
Penultimate Amazing
 
twinstead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,374
Bush should have ripped off his suit exposing his superman costume and blasted out of that school roof and stopped those planes. It's the only answer.
__________________
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -- Harlan Ellison
twinstead is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th October 2013, 12:59 PM   #395
George 152
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,012
Originally Posted by Mark F View Post
4 days since I posted my challenge. What's the deal? I thought you were so sure of what really happened you could just answer something that simple on the fly?
He cant type while he's running away
George 152 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th October 2013, 06:53 PM   #396
Stamuel
Muse
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 594
Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
[...]However, you managed to just skip, ignore, and brush aside the fact that there was simply no need to alter the alleged SOP. No need to have any Secret Service personell involved. Just let things play out in what you expect would be the normal fashion.


So, explain why the Secret Service SOP was altered.
This is what I think of every time someone brings up this alleged Secret Service SOP. If the Secret Service deliberately broke protocol, it presumably was because the conspirators needed Bush to stay at the school. His being there was staged for propaganda purposes or something.



But look at that recording of Bush as he learns of the attacks and just sits there. He looks like a brain-damaged deer in the head lights. He looks like an idiot and a loser, incompetent in fact. I know you can't judge his leadership ability based on the fact that he sat there for several minutes, but from a propaganda standpoint, the only thing it conveys is "FAIL". Why would they go so far as to break protocol and risk discovery to stage that?
Stamuel is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th October 2013, 03:58 AM   #397
dafydd
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 35,398
Originally Posted by George152 View Post
He cant type while he's running away
He was probably used to twoofer forums. The kitchen was far too hot here.
dafydd is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th October 2013, 06:15 AM   #398
jaydeehess
Penultimate Amazing
 
jaydeehess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: 40 miles north of the border
Posts: 20,849
Originally Posted by BenjaminTR View Post
This is what I think of every time someone brings up this alleged Secret Service SOP. If the Secret Service deliberately broke protocol, it presumably was because the conspirators needed Bush to stay at the school. His being there was staged for propaganda purposes or something.



But look at that recording of Bush as he learns of the attacks and just sits there. He looks like a brain-damaged deer in the head lights. He looks like an idiot and a loser, incompetent in fact. I know you can't judge his leadership ability based on the fact that he sat there for several minutes, but from a propaganda standpoint, the only thing it conveys is "FAIL". Why would they go so far as to break protocol and risk discovery to stage that?
Yes!
I see a man who has no idea what to do.

Conspiracy bent folk see a man thinking 'what have I done' , perhaps.

Some have opined that GWB was not aware of the conspiracy, was an incompetent set in place because he was incompetent. In this version its Cheney or Rumsfeld who are responsible. In that case GWB was kept at the school so that he would not have the communications abilities afforded by AF1. Still ridiculous of course since the POTUS is never incommunicado and any advantage afforded by his not being in the WH applies whether he is in an elementary school or at 40,000 ft ASL in AF1.
jaydeehess is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th October 2013, 06:30 AM   #399
jaydeehess
Penultimate Amazing
 
jaydeehess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: 40 miles north of the border
Posts: 20,849
One wonders about the conversations that would have to take place between conspiracy planners and Secret Service brass, and between those officers and the field agents on GWB's protection squad.

'On Sept. 11 a major attack will take place but the POTUS is to remain where ever he is at the moment. By no means is he to be moved to the limo or AF1 until we get clearance to do so from above."

"From above? Who is above the POTUS?"

" Just do as you are told and make sure all your agents understand the change in SOP for this event. All will become obvious to you after the fact, if you don't already comprehend the implications, but we are sure that none of you good soldiers will be so distraught about being made part of this that you will go public"
jaydeehess is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th October 2013, 06:42 AM   #400
Animal
Master Poster
 
Animal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 2,097
Originally Posted by BenjaminTR View Post
This is what I think of every time someone brings up this alleged Secret Service SOP. If the Secret Service deliberately broke protocol, it presumably was because the conspirators needed Bush to stay at the school. His being there was staged for propaganda purposes or something.



But look at that recording of Bush as he learns of the attacks and just sits there. He looks like a brain-damaged deer in the head lights. He looks like an idiot and a loser, incompetent in fact. I know you can't judge his leadership ability based on the fact that he sat there for several minutes, but from a propaganda standpoint, the only thing it conveys is "FAIL". Why would they go so far as to break protocol and risk discovery to stage that?
He had the deer in the head lights look on many occasions when the television camera light turned on. Ascribing intelligence based on stage presence is really silly.........but feeds into the political talking points. I guess that is why some people think hollywood stars are so brilliant.

Having met Bush and seeing him work a room, he was not dumb. I don't agree with a lot of what he did, was sincerely and thought about things before reacting he just could not turn on the tears on cue like his predecessor.

I do think that some in the MSM went out of their way to make him look foolish.....just as many go out of their way now to protect our narcissistic child emperor.
Animal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories » 9/11 Conspiracy Theories

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:30 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.