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9th December 2013, 05:59 PM | #601 |
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"I joined this forum to learn about the people who think that 9/11 was an inside job. I've learned that they believe nutty things and are not very good at explaining them." - FineWine "The agencies involved with studying the WTC collapse no more needed to consider explosives than the police need to consider brain cancer in a shooting death." - ElMondoHummus |
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9th December 2013, 06:07 PM | #602 |
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I have to admit, that's the most lucid comment you've posted AFAICT.
1) The scale matters. Smaller containers are going to perform differently. Cube square law, surface area to volume, etc... 2) Please feel free to explain why you assume the fuel would "explode on impact" and not be "kind of sucked in?" You do realize objects (fuel) in motion tend to stay in motion, etc...? |
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Mister Earl: "The plural of bollocks is not evidence." |
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9th December 2013, 06:13 PM | #603 |
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I suspect that many CT'ers glom onto phraseology that sounds impressively techie - think "nanothermite" - that they themselves have not the slightest knowledge of or first hand experience with.
Back when thermite was the big thing, I'd explain how the material becomes molten at ignition and how difficult it would be to use it on any vertical structure, the come-back would be that if the thermite was "painted" on...and down the rabbit hole they would go. We haven't seen the end of it, I'm sure. In 50 years some folks will be on whatever the 'net becomes and will be arguing fact against fiction, just like the JFK CT's |
9th December 2013, 06:21 PM | #604 |
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9th December 2013, 09:04 PM | #605 |
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Ah Mikey's, too bad English isn't your native tongue. More of your posts would make sense.
"Best speed"? As far as beachnut making links quickly, you do realize there are hotkeys provided by href , plus the computer's copy/paste capability, plus the fact that he posted dozens of minutes apart. |
9th December 2013, 09:08 PM | #606 |
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Umm, Mikey's, demolitions cutter charges utilse an explosive that causes a wide stream of copper to cut large steel columns.
http://www.appliedexplosives.com/ind...n/aet-ccl.html |
9th December 2013, 09:17 PM | #607 |
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9th December 2013, 09:33 PM | #608 |
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Mister Earl: "The plural of bollocks is not evidence." |
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9th December 2013, 09:47 PM | #609 |
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9th December 2013, 10:02 PM | #610 |
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9th December 2013, 10:02 PM | #611 |
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Just thinking about cruise missiles (the drones of 2001) reminded me again how at the end of the day, after all the obsessing over super duper iron rich nana banana thermite, they still have a "theory" a thousand times more complex and riskier than simply hiring 19 fanatics to hijack four planes.
In the military we do course of action (COA) analysis. You usually pick 2-3 ways to accomplish your mission, wargame it with weighted values and figure which one best meets the commander's intent. Imagine if I presented a sane commander with: COA 1 - secretly hire 19 fanatics to crash four planes to accomplish "X." COA 2 - fill two skyscrapers occupied 24/7 with demo, hide four planes, invent fake passengers/put all the real passengers into shallow graves, project holograms 360 degrees over Manhattan, explode said demo, fire cruise missile into Pentagon, salt Pentagon with plane parts, wait six hours to explode WTC7, to accomplish "X." What COA would he chose? |
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Mister Earl: "The plural of bollocks is not evidence." |
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9th December 2013, 10:06 PM | #612 |
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None of the Colonels/Generals I put solutions to would have chosen either of those...
...the order to remove myself from his presence would be quite brief and blunt. My promotion prospects bleak. But I get your point - and I'm sure you wouldn't put the second one forward either. |
9th December 2013, 11:06 PM | #613 |
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I have 30 windows open. "ctrl C", "ctrl V" are helpful, and right click... I am a geek, I have 8 computers running for my grandkids use. Is your computer slow? I have two more computers sitting idle, and a spare i3 chip in it's box. I have my original first of 250,000 IBM PC. I dumped 4 computers last year I built, and donated 5 monitors this past year (and I am only in the 15% bracket).
My mom made me take typing class in 1969, surrounded on eight sides by women; thank you mom. I build my own computers, except for the laptop, or when I get lazy. The NWO makes me type faster, or die. USAF planes can go 500 mph or faster. The USAF needs to study bird damage and try to have canopies which repel birds to save pilots. The bird cannon needs to be as fast as the plane goes. which hard fact was this about? |
10th December 2013, 12:41 AM | #614 |
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10th December 2013, 02:51 AM | #615 |
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Yes, try it with analogues that at least vaguely resemble the real-world counterparts.
As for your comment about the videos, there is nothing unexpected on them. Which direction do you think the (not insignificant) mass of fuel was heading at impact, and why would it NOT enter the building? Remember you are talking about thousands of pounds of fuel here. |
10th December 2013, 02:54 AM | #616 |
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10th December 2013, 03:13 AM | #617 |
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10th December 2013, 07:44 AM | #618 |
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10th December 2013, 07:50 AM | #619 |
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10th December 2013, 08:44 AM | #620 |
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"Television is a circus, a carnival, a traveling troupe of acrobats, storytellers, dancers, singers, jugglers, side-show freaks, lion tamers, and football players. We're in the boredom-killing business! So if you want the truth... Go to God!" Howard Beale, "Network" |
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10th December 2013, 08:50 AM | #621 |
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10th December 2013, 10:29 AM | #622 |
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10th December 2013, 10:31 AM | #623 |
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10th December 2013, 10:36 AM | #624 |
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10th December 2013, 12:31 PM | #625 |
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There is no escape from truth.
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10th December 2013, 12:39 PM | #626 |
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There is no escape from truth.
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10th December 2013, 12:49 PM | #627 |
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10th December 2013, 01:17 PM | #628 |
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High School late 60s...
The late night typing of a paper by mom and dad for big brother, inspired the idea for #2 son's mandatory typing class; an idea born at 3am. An idea backed with the possible need for typing college papers - part of the the plot, a goal, sons go to college. 24 hard facts? lol http://www.collective-evolution.com/...t-be-debunked/ 911 truth disciples can't debunk 911 truth lies if they tried. Living terrorists? How stupid do the 911 truth claims have to be for 911 truth disciples to question their faith? Undefined? 911 truth loves to quote mine anything to support the delusional fantasies made up by other clueless 911 truth followers, true believers of woo.
Quote:
It appears 911 truth loyal followers of woo, are unable to comprehend the WTC steel shell can be breached by almost any mass at some speed. Fuel tanks and a wing entered the WTC due to lots of speed, which makes lots of energy, and 911 truth only tool is lots of ignorance. 911 truth can't do the math and physics to comprehend the shell with steel of the right strength >22mm thick would stop the wing tanks filled with fuel from entering the WTC up to speeds of 550 mph. Doubt they know what > is. Thicker steel might have changed what happened on 911. Slow aircraft, at pattern speeds would have failed on 911 to much more than make horrific crashes, and kill locally at the impact points, and anyone hit by debris and burning aircraft parts raining down on the WTC complex. The WTC as built would stop the wing tanks with fuel at speeds up to 256 mph. Wonder why 911 truth followers act so dumb and make claims aluminum aircraft can't breach a steel building. It would be interesting if one of the fringe few 911 truth disciples presented some math and physics to show why an airliner at 470 and 590 mph can't enter a the WTC shell. Something to really debunk, some math and physics. Why does 911 truth avoid doing the work? Not so interesting to see how 911 truth explains the hole left by aircraft on 911. How did the NWO make the hole to match the aircraft that hit the WTC. Ignorance of math, gullibility, and laziness fuel the 911 truth movement constant supply of believers, who enter in ignorance and leave 911 truth when they mature with knowledge. |
10th December 2013, 11:02 PM | #629 |
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Mister Earl: "The plural of bollocks is not evidence." |
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10th December 2013, 11:55 PM | #630 |
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He happens to be right and it's a good example to learn from.
Most of the physics which truthers stumble over is at high school level. This one isn't - it is undergraduate level - at least - depending on specifics. In fact it would probably be more productive to explore why real events happened - aircraft impact into Twin Towers for example - rather than rely on models which are difficult to process. Believe it or not but it is easier to explain aircraft into tower to complete novices in physics than it is to explain the drink can example. The pre-requisite is still the same - the novice must be both honest and willing to learn. Using analogies presents the usual duo of difficulties: 1) Truthers usually cannot process analogies. (many debunkers also but that is not relevant here.) 2) All the 'scaling factors' - velocities, masses, structural aspects of both "missile"' and "target" - don't help understanding for lay persons who are not proficient in using modelling techniques. |
11th December 2013, 04:36 AM | #631 |
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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -- Harlan Ellison |
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11th December 2013, 07:06 AM | #632 |
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I was jumping around from various page to various page on this thread last night, reading some of the most elaborate posts about all this. But what I`d like to know is...what is the basis for the reason for the conspiracy itself, that it was not a plane, but say a missile instead? And how does THAT tie into what happened that same day in NYC and Pennsylvania around the same time on the same day? Does this then also mean the Pentagon conspiracy then broadens to include the WTC buildings, as to what really happened there as well?
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11th December 2013, 07:19 AM | #633 |
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I'm sure it's been remarked in this thread, probably several times, that truthers shy away from producing a coherent story which ties together the events of the day in the way they like to imply things happened. Far easier for them to gallop around pointing out things that "look suspicious to me" rather than say what they believe occurred.
A missile hitting the Pentagon was the very first piece of 9/11 conspiracy I ever heard of, when a friend told me about a documentary he'd seen by some French dude showing that the pentagon was hit by a missile rather than a plane. I was suspicious as my own recollection was that I'd heard eyewitness accounts at the time describing seeing a plane. He soon concluded he'd been suckered. That was probably the last I thought about it for most of a decade until I arrived here. |
11th December 2013, 07:30 AM | #634 |
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Yeah. Last night i was engrossed by posts going into great detail about the entry hole...arguing about what was the entry hole as opposed to the exit hole, and some very detailed stuff.
Which remindedme of discussing trees but not seeing the forest. You know...that expression. |
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I lost my mind many years ago and it hasn't affected me a bit...a bit..a bit..a bit. |
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11th December 2013, 07:38 AM | #635 |
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Well you see,...
The attacks on the Twin Towers were holograms orchestrated by Larry Silverstein (the requisite "evil Jooo") who wanted to cover-up the fact he hired the New York Fire department to blow up 7 World Trade Center so he could lose billions of dollars in un-recovered losses and a decade of lost revenue. Meanwhile in Washington,... Donald Rumsfeld holds a press conference on 9/10/2001 to say the DoD can not account for $2.3 trillion in missing funds. Thinking about it overnight he decides that was a really bad idea so the next morning he orders the Air Force (or the Navy or Pixar or someone) to paint a cruise missile to look like an airliner and blow up the Pentagon where the accounting office was located that was tracking those missing funds. That this happened at the same time as the attacks on the Twin Towers is pure coincidence since so far as I know Larry Silverstein could not collect any insurance money from damage at the Pentagon. Is Rummy Jewish? Anyway,... Also at around the same time, while the nation was fully aware it was under attack the Air Force used super-secret stealth planes to shoot down Flight 93 then lie about it OR forced Flight 93 to secretly land for reasons unknown, and fired missiles into the dirt in Shanksville that made a perfect airplane outline in the ground and littered the area with passenger DNA and 757 parts. Reasons for doing this? Unknown. I think that pretty well sums it up. |
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So I'm going to tell you what the facts are, and the facts are the facts, but then we know the truth. That always overcomes facts. |
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11th December 2013, 07:50 AM | #636 |
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Well, when you lay it all out like that, it all seems so reasonable.
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11th December 2013, 08:31 AM | #637 |
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So I'm going to tell you what the facts are, and the facts are the facts, but then we know the truth. That always overcomes facts. |
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11th December 2013, 09:05 AM | #638 |
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Ha, I wish. Every day another Truther who doesn't know its all over pops up. They are kinda like these guys:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_holdout |
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"You must not let your need to be right be more important than your need to find out what's true." - Ray Dalio, Principles |
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11th December 2013, 09:55 AM | #639 |
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11th December 2013, 10:38 AM | #640 |
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