ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Non-USA & General Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Brexit

Reply
Old 25th August 2019, 10:19 AM   #1161
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 20,917
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
And gaining an albatross?
A vulture perhaps? Or a bald eagle...
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th August 2019, 10:42 AM   #1162
Jack by the hedge
Safely Ignored
 
Jack by the hedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9,691
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Donald Trump: UK is losing the 'anchor round its ankle'
It's the method of removing it with a shotgun that worries me.
Jack by the hedge is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th August 2019, 11:44 AM   #1163
Nessie
Penultimate Amazing
 
Nessie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,079
Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
IIRR it happened on a small scale in the seventies, certainly it was proposed. It's a vastly better option that troops and the cops would likely be less unpopular, biased and corrupt than the PSNI.
Deploy troops and there will be deaths within a week.
The rent a mob support units that provide such mutual support are not known for their tact and diplomacy.

I think uniform police from England standing at the border checking vehicles will be a target, with in hours of deployment.
__________________
Audiophile/biker/sceptic
Nessie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th August 2019, 12:38 PM   #1164
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 20,917
Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
The rent a mob support units that provide such mutual support are not known for their tact and diplomacy.

I think uniform police from England standing at the border checking vehicles will be a target, with in hours of deployment.
Probably, but in such a climate so would the PSNI, who'd be armed.
Hmm, two things spring to mind; a new use for the CNC and if course this:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y5dy9URkLFI
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th August 2019, 12:44 PM   #1165
Giordano
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,739
That anyone would enter into a deal with Trump and not expect to be screwed big time by it amazes me. No one touched by Trump in any capacity ends up anything but far worse for it. But then again, Boris probably doesn't care about the overall or long term outcome; only the possible short term personal political advantage. And yet again, perhaps Boris is better at doing evil, reprehensible things than Trump and will be one of those few to come out ahead.
Giordano is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th August 2019, 02:04 PM   #1166
Craig B
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 22,716
Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
In Ye Olde Days he'd come along personally to tell them. I blame Vicky.
Rightly so. She's the one to blame.
Queen Victoria prorogued Parliament in person regularly between 1837 and 1854, after which she ceased to attend, allegedly because she disliked the ceremony.

This was the last occasion on which the Sovereign prorogued Parliament or gave the Royal Assent in person, and was also the last time the Speaker made a speech at prorogation.

From 1855, a prorogation speech, prepared by the Government, was read by the Lord Chancellor, and in 1867, Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli introduced the custom of having the Lord Chancellor read the prorogation speech in the first person, as if the Queen were speaking the words herself.
Craig B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th August 2019, 03:05 PM   #1167
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 23,897
Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
That anyone would enter into a deal with Trump and not expect to be screwed big time by it amazes me. No one touched by Trump in any capacity ends up anything but far worse for it. But then again, Boris probably doesn't care about the overall or long term outcome; only the possible short term personal political advantage. And yet again, perhaps Boris is better at doing evil, reprehensible things than Trump and will be one of those few to come out ahead.

It won't be Boris that suffers, short or long term.
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th August 2019, 10:10 PM   #1168
McHrozni
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 11,350
Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
The EU want the border to stay open.

The Irish (north and south) want the border to stay open.

The British want the border to stay open.

The real question then is: who on earth is going to close the border, and why?

I suppose you think the EU will reluctantly close the border to preserve the purity of their market, even though they don't really want to, and it will be bitterly opposed by the Irish?
No. The Irish will begin to monitor the border, because integrity of customs borders is what enables a customs union. If a portion of the border is open the country needs to allow goods from everywhere to enter, free of tariffs, checks, duties or laws.

The same goes for the UK. If it doesn't monitor the Irish border and if it doesn't create a customs border in the Irish sea while doing checks and levying tariffs on goods coming from elsewhere, it is in violation of WTO rules.

That's the WTO Brexit for you.

Quote:
When the overwhelming majority of people want something to happen, why would they then prevent it from happening? That really would be politics gone mad.
Yes, good observation. Brexit Britain is politics gone mad indeed.

Quote:
If "the rules" mean that you can't do what everyone wants, then it's time to change the rules: these are rules invented by politicians - they're not laws of physics.
It's called "The Withdrawal Agreement", UK is free to ratify that, or else take steps that will see the country remain in the EU. As you said if "the rules" mean you can't do what everyone wants then it's time to change said rules.

McHrozni
__________________
لا إله إلا رجل والعلوم والتكنولوجيا وأنبيائه
McHrozni is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th August 2019, 10:47 PM   #1169
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 17,478
Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
No. The Irish will begin to monitor the border, because integrity of customs borders is what enables a customs union. If a portion of the border is open the country needs to allow goods from everywhere to enter, free of tariffs, checks, duties or laws.

The same goes for the UK. If it doesn't monitor the Irish border and if it doesn't create a customs border in the Irish sea while doing checks and levying tariffs on goods coming from elsewhere, it is in violation of WTO rules.

That's the WTO Brexit for you.



Yes, good observation. Brexit Britain is politics gone mad indeed.



It's called "The Withdrawal Agreement", UK is free to ratify that, or else take steps that will see the country remain in the EU. As you said if "the rules" mean you can't do what everyone wants then it's time to change said rules.

McHrozni
It seems like a bit if problem that they voted for a parliament that is 80%. Seems a bit of a mixed signal.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th August 2019, 11:13 PM   #1170
McHrozni
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 11,350
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
It seems like a bit if problem that they voted for a parliament that is 80%. Seems a bit of a mixed signal.
Parliament is 80% what?

McHrozni
__________________
لا إله إلا رجل والعلوم والتكنولوجيا وأنبيائه
McHrozni is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th August 2019, 11:53 PM   #1171
GlennB
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
 
GlennB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arcadia, Greece
Posts: 25,227
Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Parliament is 80% what?

McHrozni
Also, who are 'they' and which parliament are we talking about there?
__________________
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut
GlennB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2019, 01:07 AM   #1172
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 26,923
Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Parliament is 80% what?

McHrozni
Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Also, who are 'they' and which parliament are we talking about there?
I guess it's an inaccurate reference to the current makeup of the UK Parliament in which the vast majority of MPs represent parties which had manifesto pledges to "respect the will of the people" and deliver Brexit.

The reasons why the 80% is inaccurate and why simply assuming that Labour MPs in particular are representatives for a pro-Brexit party have already been done to death in previous iterations of this thread so I won't allow myself to get "bobbed" and rehash them here.

Of course the critical thing is that a no-deal Brexit is an entirely different kettle of fish and AFAIK no MP was elected for a party with a manifesto pledge to deliver a no-deal Brexit.
The Don is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2019, 02:18 AM   #1173
McHrozni
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 11,350
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I guess it's an inaccurate reference to the current makeup of the UK Parliament in which the vast majority of MPs represent parties which had manifesto pledges to "respect the will of the people" and deliver Brexit.

The reasons why the 80% is inaccurate and why simply assuming that Labour MPs in particular are representatives for a pro-Brexit party have already been done to death in previous iterations of this thread so I won't allow myself to get "bobbed" and rehash them here.

Of course the critical thing is that a no-deal Brexit is an entirely different kettle of fish and AFAIK no MP was elected for a party with a manifesto pledge to deliver a no-deal Brexit.
Shhh!!

We all know this, we want the Brexiteer to unequivocally state that to take the "I NEVER said that" diversion away from him/her/it.

McHrozni
__________________
لا إله إلا رجل والعلوم والتكنولوجيا وأنبيائه
McHrozni is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2019, 05:06 AM   #1174
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 17,478
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Of course the critical thing is that a no-deal Brexit is an entirely different kettle of fish and AFAIK no MP was elected for a party with a manifesto pledge to deliver a no-deal Brexit.
Special pleading.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2019, 06:06 AM   #1175
Garrison
Illuminator
 
Garrison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,788
It seems that BoJo has been caught telling 'pork pies' about, well, pork pies.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49470831


How exactly being able to export a few pork pies to the USA for a niche market would compensate for the damage to done to agriculture by opening it up to US products is beyond me, and BoJo as well I suspect.
__________________
So I've started a blog about my writing. Check it out at: http://fourth-planet-problem.blogspot.com/
And my first book is on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077W322FX

Last edited by Garrison; 26th August 2019 at 06:34 AM.
Garrison is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2019, 06:16 AM   #1176
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 26,923
Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
It seems that BoJo has been caught telling 'pork pies' about, well, pork pies.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49470831


How exactly being able to export a few pork pies to the USA for a niche market would compensate for the damage to done to agriculture by opening it up to US products is beyond me, and BoJo as well I suspect.
It's straight out of of the President Trump playbook - say something that appeals to the audience it's targeted at, and when it turns out to be a complete lie, double down.

Quote:
In response to Mr O'Callaghan, No 10 said the PM was correct when he said that Melton Mowbray pork pies are exported to Thailand and Iceland.

His remarks, it added, were based on a briefing note from the Department for International Trade, which said the company Walker & Sons exports small shipments to Iceland, Thailand, Singapore and the Caribbean.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49470831

Quote:
However, when contacted by the BBC, Walker & Son - which says it makes and bakes 80% of all of the UK's Melton Mowbray pork pies - said it no longer exports pork pies.

"We are entirely focused on the UK market," a spokeswoman said.

The company said it used to export a "tiny amount" to Singapore - but had not done so "for some time".

A spokeswoman said none had been exported for "at least two years".
Then again it's also typical of Boris Johnson to lie like a cheap rug:

Quote:
During the Tory leadership contest earlier this year, Mr Johnson waved an Isle of Man kipper at the final hustings and claimed EU regulations require kipper suppliers to keep their products cool with ice pillows when they are delivered.

However, the EU rule covers fresh fish and not smoked products, such as kippers, and it is for national governments to set any rules.
The Don is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2019, 06:39 AM   #1177
GlennB
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
 
GlennB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arcadia, Greece
Posts: 25,227
Yep, the Trump era has arrived in the UK. The difficulty he might face is that he has to face PMQs once a week when the house is sitting and his lies can be exposed a little better than Trump's. Maybe that's one of the reasons he wants to suspend the HoC for a time?
__________________
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut
GlennB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2019, 06:42 AM   #1178
lomiller
Philosopher
 
lomiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 9,954
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Special pleading.
No. Parliament already voted against a no deal Brexit. The only reason Brexit continues to go forward is that the government broke promises made by the “leave” side in the Referendum that there would be a deal even prior to filing article 50.
__________________
"Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"
lomiller is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2019, 06:50 AM   #1179
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 26,923
Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Yep, the Trump era has arrived in the UK. The difficulty he might face is that he has to face PMQs once a week when the house is sitting and his lies can be exposed a little better than Trump's. Maybe that's one of the reasons he wants to suspend the HoC for a time?
Boris Johnson is a skilled performer. Any attempt to pin him down in a lie in PMQ will result in a blizzard of Latin tabs and obfuscation with much cheering from the Conservative back-benches. IMO Jeremy Corbyn certainly isn't up to the task and I fear that the Great British public do love a toff and so any such performance in PMQ will only further endear him to the electorate
The Don is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2019, 06:59 AM   #1180
Worm
Master Poster
 
Worm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dundee
Posts: 2,952
To be ruthlessly fair, is it not possible that Walker & Sons may not directly export pork pies, but that a third party company may do so?

Not quite sure what pork pies have got to with anything mind you, it's hardly a key international industry.
__________________
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" Isaac Asimov

Not all cults are bad - I've joined a cult of niceness
Worm is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2019, 07:08 AM   #1181
Archie Gemmill Goal
Philosopher
 
Archie Gemmill Goal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 6,392
Originally Posted by Worm View Post
To be ruthlessly fair, is it not possible that Walker & Sons may not directly export pork pies, but that a third party company may do so?

Not quite sure what pork pies have got to with anything mind you, it's hardly a key international industry.
It's possible but then you are talking about a handful no doubt.

It's obvious BJ doesn't actually care if whether what he says is true or not. It's convenient at the time.
__________________
"I love sex and drugs and sausage rolls
But nothing compares to Archie Gemmill's goal"
Archie Gemmill Goal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2019, 07:11 AM   #1182
Archie Gemmill Goal
Philosopher
 
Archie Gemmill Goal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 6,392
The most ridiculous and pernicious thing in all of this is that BJ complains about these 'not widely understood' trade barriers to the US which are stopping us trading but fails to acknowledge that he is in the process of erecting the same barriers with our largest existing markets
__________________
"I love sex and drugs and sausage rolls
But nothing compares to Archie Gemmill's goal"
Archie Gemmill Goal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2019, 07:13 AM   #1183
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 26,923
Originally Posted by Worm View Post
To be ruthlessly fair, is it not possible that Walker & Sons may not directly export pork pies, but that a third party company may do so?

Not quite sure what pork pies have got to with anything mind you, it's hardly a key international industry.
The claim from number 10 was that it was Walker & Sons doing the exporting, not a third party:

Quote:
In response to Mr O'Callaghan, No 10 said the PM was correct when he said that Melton Mowbray pork pies are exported to Thailand and Iceland.

His remarks, it added, were based on a briefing note from the Department for International Trade, which said the company Walker & Sons exports small shipments to Iceland, Thailand, Singapore and the Caribbean.
This turns out to have been factually incorrect.
The Don is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2019, 07:15 AM   #1184
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 17,478
Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
No. Parliament already voted against a no deal Brexit. The only reason Brexit continues to go forward is that the government broke promises made by the “leave” side in the Referendum that there would be a deal even prior to filing article 50.
If a promise was made.by leave advocates, it wasn't a promise made by the government.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2019, 07:16 AM   #1185
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 26,923
Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
The most ridiculous and pernicious thing in all of this is that BJ complains about these 'not widely understood' fictitious trade barriers to the US which are allegedly stopping us trading but which make no difference whatsoever but fails to acknowledge that he is in the process of erecting the same real trade barriers with our largest existing markets which will have significant consequences for the UK economy
FTFY
The Don is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2019, 07:42 AM   #1186
lomiller
Philosopher
 
lomiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 9,954
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
If a promise was made.by leave advocates, it wasn't a promise made by the government.
Start your own thread if you want to discuss your undemocratic system of government where elected officials systematically the will of the people and its ok for politicians to lie and break their promises to impose their will on the nation isn’t the discussion topic.
__________________
"Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"
lomiller is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2019, 07:46 AM   #1187
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 17,478
Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Start your own thread if you want to discuss your undemocratic system of government where elected officials systematically the will of the people and its ok for politicians to lie and break their promises to impose their will on the nation isn’t the discussion topic.
Nowhere did I say it was okay.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2019, 02:02 PM   #1188
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 87,206
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Special pleading.
Nope.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th August 2019, 03:41 PM   #1189
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 47,491
Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
The EU and the terrorists (and the rest of Ireland) want the same thing, an open border. No one is holding any one to hostage or shaping their behaviour to suit another there.
Well Boris is holding a gun to britians head and threatening a no deal exit if he doesn't get mutually contradictory things.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2019, 12:01 AM   #1190
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 26,923
Boris Johnson once again spreading the Brexit lie that it's up to Remainers to make Brexit a success.

Quote:
"The job of everybody in Parliament" is to deliver Brexit, the PM has said at the end of the G7 summit in France.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49473497

Quote:
Asked about the possibility of MPs thwarting plans to leave the EU at the end of October, Mr Johnson said: "I think it's the job of everybody in Parliament to get this thing done.

"I think it's what the people want, I also think, by the way, it's what our friends and partners on the other side of the Channel want - they want it over."
Nope, polling regularly shows that a majority of the British electorate want to Remain.

What people absolutely do not want is a no deal Brexit, the thing that Boris Johnson seems determined to foist upon us all. I note, for example that he has said that he will not prorogue Parliament in September (but saying nothing about whether he plans to do so in October).
The Don is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2019, 12:56 AM   #1191
Archie Gemmill Goal
Philosopher
 
Archie Gemmill Goal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 6,392
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Boris Johnson once again spreading the Brexit lie that it's up to Remainers to make Brexit a success.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49473497



Nope, polling regularly shows that a majority of the British electorate want to Remain.

What people absolutely do not want is a no deal Brexit, the thing that Boris Johnson seems determined to foist upon us all. I note, for example that he has said that he will not prorogue Parliament in September (but saying nothing about whether he plans to do so in October).
Does it matter what he says? He's a liar.
__________________
"I love sex and drugs and sausage rolls
But nothing compares to Archie Gemmill's goal"
Archie Gemmill Goal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2019, 02:07 AM   #1192
McHrozni
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 11,350
Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Does it matter what he says? He's a liar.
He's also the lead antagonist of the fourth season of the show.

So, yes?

McHrozni
__________________
لا إله إلا رجل والعلوم والتكنولوجيا وأنبيائه
McHrozni is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2019, 02:18 AM   #1193
Archie Gemmill Goal
Philosopher
 
Archie Gemmill Goal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 6,392
Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
He's also the lead antagonist of the fourth season of the show.

So, yes?

McHrozni
But what he says has no bearing on what will actually happen. It's honestly pointless to pay any attention to him. Sometimes I wish the news would just ignore people who are proven liars than give them airtime.
__________________
"I love sex and drugs and sausage rolls
But nothing compares to Archie Gemmill's goal"
Archie Gemmill Goal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2019, 02:31 AM   #1194
McHrozni
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 11,350
Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
But what he says has no bearing on what will actually happen.
What he says has a bearing on the perceptions and expectations of a significant segment of the British electorate. Whether it will happen or not is immaterial, the damage is already done.

Quote:
It's honestly pointless to pay any attention to him. Sometimes I wish the news would just ignore people who are proven liars than give them airtime.
When said liars have the power of an important office - the PM qualifies - then the news has to cover what they say, true or false. They have the authority to change things, their promises have to be covered.

Even if the only result is they can be exposed as a liar for the n-th time (n being defined as n+1).

McHrozni
__________________
لا إله إلا رجل والعلوم والتكنولوجيا وأنبيائه
McHrozni is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2019, 03:06 AM   #1195
Wudang
BOFH
 
Wudang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire
Posts: 11,893
A rant from Peter North who ran LeaveHQ
https://www.reddit.com/r/brexit/comm...ing_a_serious/


Snippet.

Quote:
Supposedly serious people are ignoring what is said, assuming the EU will eventually fold and make unprecedented concessions, opening up huge holes in its own legal order for the sole benefit if the UK - because somehow the UK is special. The EU will not do this.

eta: I like quoting him as he was the editor of Leave HQ - a very public Brexxiter and who is that mythological creature that apparently doesn't exist - a Leave voter, indeed campaigner, who says this is not the Brexit he voted for.
__________________
"Your deepest pools, like your deepest politicians and philosophers, often turn out more shallow than expected." Walter Scott.

Last edited by Wudang; 27th August 2019 at 03:14 AM.
Wudang is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2019, 03:58 AM   #1196
Archie Gemmill Goal
Philosopher
 
Archie Gemmill Goal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 6,392
Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
A rant from Peter North who ran LeaveHQ
https://www.reddit.com/r/brexit/comm...ing_a_serious/


Snippet.




eta: I like quoting him as he was the editor of Leave HQ - a very public Brexxiter and who is that mythological creature that apparently doesn't exist - a Leave voter, indeed campaigner, who says this is not the Brexit he voted for.
I think he is missing the point though... the purpose here is not to get concessions from the EU but rather to be able to either get the EU to make concessions therefore being hailed as a hero or to be able to pin the blame for the no-deal brexit on the EU because they were stubborn.

And so far it's working.
__________________
"I love sex and drugs and sausage rolls
But nothing compares to Archie Gemmill's goal"
Archie Gemmill Goal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2019, 05:04 AM   #1197
McHrozni
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 11,350
Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
I think he is missing the point though... the purpose here is not to get concessions from the EU but rather to be able to either get the EU to make concessions therefore being hailed as a hero or to be able to pin the blame for the no-deal brexit on the EU because they were stubborn.

And so far it's working.
It's working among how large a portion of the electorate? I'll guess it to be at 20-25%.

McHrozni
__________________
لا إله إلا رجل والعلوم والتكنولوجيا وأنبيائه
McHrozni is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2019, 05:21 AM   #1198
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 26,923
Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
It's working among how large a portion of the electorate? I'll guess it to be at 20-25%.

McHrozni
Add that to the 30% or so who actively want a no-deal Brexit and Boris Johnson is looking at a winning hand
The Don is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2019, 05:30 AM   #1199
McHrozni
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 11,350
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Add that to the 30% or so who actively want a no-deal Brexit and Boris Johnson is looking at a winning hand
No, those would be entirely contained within the 20-25% asylum.

My guess is the number of people who know what a no-deal Brexit entails and want one are 5% or less of the electorate. Other supporters are those who have no idea what the no-deal Brexit truly means, but buy the sweet sweet lies of Planet Brexit.

The elecorate seems to put the blame more on BJ than on EU according to this poll:
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...no-deal-brexit

They're also ready to blame just about everyone for the debacle, even 51% of Leave voters agree BJ carries at least "some" blame. Almost 80% think it's the fault of EU for not agreeing to the obvious British superior strength and bully the weak little UK instead.

McHrozni
__________________
لا إله إلا رجل والعلوم والتكنولوجيا وأنبيائه
McHrozni is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th August 2019, 05:52 AM   #1200
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 26,923
Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
No, those would be entirely contained within the 20-25% asylum.
I don't think so, the no-dealers aren't seeking to blame anyone at the moment.

Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
My guess is the number of people who know what a no-deal Brexit entails and want one are 5% or less of the electorate. Other supporters are those who have no idea what the no-deal Brexit truly means, but buy the sweet sweet lies of Planet Brexit.
I think your guess is miles wide of the mark. A significant proportion of people around here in this comparatively well-to-do rural constituency are firmly in favour of a no-deal Brexit but do have a reasonable understanding of the implications.

They really do think that a 5%-10% GDP hit, short term shortages and a constriction is a price worth paying in order to leave the EU. Some are actively looking forward to it because it'll teach people a lesson


Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
The elecorate seems to put the blame more on BJ than on EU according to this poll:
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...no-deal-brexit

They're also ready to blame just about everyone for the debacle, even 51% of Leave voters agree BJ carries at least "some" blame. Almost 80% think it's the fault of EU for not agreeing to the obvious British superior strength and bully the weak little UK instead.

McHrozni
The EU-blaming is still gathering momentum. Don't want to get into the full mode until after a no-deal.
The Don is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Non-USA & General Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:37 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.