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Tags border walls , donald trump , immigration issues , Trump controversies

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Old 1st April 2019, 02:35 AM   #721
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Because there's nothing to explain. Skeptics sound like 9/11 truthers more and more everyday. That cannot be any clearer.
Hitchens's razor.
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Last edited by Upchurch; 1st April 2019 at 03:39 AM.
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Old 1st April 2019, 03:27 AM   #722
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Because there's nothing to explain. Skeptics sound like 9/11 truthers more and more everyday. That cannot be any clearer.
So let's get this straight. Because we accept a thorough report by the SC but still choose to focus on the huge body of evidence outside of that report that describes why Trump is a bad President we are like 9/11 fantasists?
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Old 1st April 2019, 07:42 AM   #723
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Do you? Really?

I think Trump genuinely believes that Mexico could stop these folk if they wanted to. I can't imagine what sort of law would allow them to stop caravans that have legally (right?) entered Mexico from leaving to the north.

I'm not sure what makes Mexico's immigration laws so "strong". These caravans start south of their border and somehow cross into the country. Not all of them who get to the US border make it into the US. Doesn't that make our laws and enforcement "stronger"?
Mexico is apparently issuing visas of passage in the form of wristbands that allow them to travel as groups relatively unharmed. That's the practice that has Trump pissed off. I think Trump wants Mexico to turn them away at the Mexican border.

What would be required IMO is some kind of treaty between the U.S. and Mexico to either stop asylum seekers at the Mexican border, or require that they be processed in Mexico in hope Mexico could accommodate them.

But I wouldn't want to enter into any kind of treaty with the U.S. at this point.
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Old 1st April 2019, 07:44 AM   #724
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I've met racists that were sincere in this belief. They just happened to be Trump supporters. A coincidence, I'm sure......
Most Americans aren't that great on geography.
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Old 1st April 2019, 05:08 PM   #725
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Most Americans aren't that great on geography.
Tell us about it, Mein guter Cobberfreund.
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Old 1st April 2019, 05:47 PM   #726
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
I haven't seen any mention of 9/11.
You did just there!
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Old 1st April 2019, 08:46 PM   #727
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Off the cuff, and since I see 9/11 quoted above, I'll say the The Patriot Act. The lie was using 9/11 as the excuse for it.

There weren't cameras on every city block. There was no mass surveillance of citizens (not anything like there is now). That isn't just one thing - the surveillance changed things across the board. Phones, email, better watch what you say now! Banking. Traveling was not as big a pain in the butt. You could bring nail clippers and toothpaste on a plane OMG!

No metal detectors at sporting events, at least not the ones I attended. First metal detectors I saw were at an NHL game about 2 weeks after the attack. Was also the day the airports reopened. I remember walking to the arena and seeing a plane flying low directly overhead to land at the airport. EVERYONE on the street looked up and was at least a little freaked by it, including me.

Life was a lot different 20 years ago. The Patriot Act changed so much of our lives the list is virtually endless. Funny, I looked online just now and some people think not much changed. How quickly we forget. I'M even forgetting a lot (very tired today) - my list of changes seems weak.

Ask a U.S. Muslim how their lives changed. People didn't even notice them back then. What's a Muslim? The day after 9/11 Muslims hid in their homes. Everyone knew them on that day, or thought they did.

I think people that aren't old enough to remember have no clue how different life really was. People that are say under 28 years old grew up with this.

I don't know if this fits the thread now that I typed it all out.
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Old 2nd April 2019, 05:24 AM   #728
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mgidm86's comments here might have been more appropriate for the "biggest political lie" thread, but I'm responding because those comments reminded me of something that hasn't drawn as much comment in this thread (and others) as I think it deserves. Bear with me as I approach the topic through personal anecdote.

Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Off the cuff, and since I see 9/11 quoted above, I'll say the The Patriot Act. The lie was using 9/11 as the excuse for it.

There weren't cameras on every city block. There was no mass surveillance of citizens (not anything like there is now). That isn't just one thing - the surveillance changed things across the board. Phones, email, better watch what you say now! Banking. Traveling was not as big a pain in the butt. You could bring nail clippers and toothpaste on a plane OMG!

No metal detectors at sporting events....

Life was a lot different 20 years ago....
Following 9/11, the city in which I work passed a law that largely banned the possession of pocketknives with a blade longer than 2.5 inches. (Some reasonable exceptions were added, but a few surrounding cities and towns adopted the original wording, which (on a literal reading of the law as worded) made it illegal for residents to carry a table knife from kitchen to dining room.)

The pocketknife I had been carrying for 20 years had a 2.75-inch blade. For my purposes, I discovered there's a big difference between 2.75 inches and 2.5 inches. I gave up my habit of slicing apples and making bagel sandwiches at work (because 2.5 inches was too short to slice the bagels) and started to buy cheese in smaller bricks I could slice with the shorter blade.

There was a silver lining. I had owned only one pocketknife, which I carried everywhere. That no longer made sense. I needed a 2.5-inch knife that would be legal in the city, but I needn't compromise so much on the knife I carry around where I live and when hiking/snowshoeing/skiiing/bicycling. I bought a dozen knives before settling on a couple that were legal in the city, a 3.25-inch blade for town, a small lockback for casual hikes, a larger lockback for serious day hikes, and a medium-sized fixed blade knife for serious backpacking. In the process, I became interested in knives, and knife collecting turned into a minor hobby for a while.

I also decided that, when I retire, I would move to a place where local politicians are less prone to pass illiberal laws that have a lot less to do with solving a problem than with giving a false impression that politicians are doing something about the problem. By influencing where I live, the Patriot Act and related post-9/11 legislation has had a big impact on my life.

Which gets back to this national emergency. Passing laws and promulgating regulations whose only real purpose is to allow politicians to say they've done something is often regarded, in the US, as a trait associated with "liberal" politicians. Nowadays, however, doing things that make no sense just so you can take credit for doing something has become a hallmark of Trumpism, and this national emergency is an example of that.

Whereas "liberal" grandstanding often resulted in laws and regulations that, while annoying in minor ways (as in the anti-knife legislation described above), might also have some small benefit, Trump's grandstanding has often been harmful out of all proportion to any conceivable benefit. This national emergency is an example of that, and Trump's threat to close the border with Mexico (which is of course related to the national emergency being discussed in this thread) would be an even more harmful example.
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Old 2nd April 2019, 08:12 AM   #729
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Trump Tweets

After many years (decades), Mexico is apprehending large numbers of people at their Southern Border, mostly from Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador. They have ALL been taking U.S. money for years, and doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for us, just like the Democrats in Congress!

“I haven’t seen any Democrats down here at the Border working with us or asking to speak to any of us. They have an open invitation. We are getting overrun, our facilities are overcapacity. We are at an emergency crisis.” Art Del Cueto, National Border Patrol Council.
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Old 3rd April 2019, 07:33 AM   #730
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Trump Tweets

Congress must get together and immediately eliminate the loopholes at the Border! If no action, Border, or large sections of Border, will close. This is a National Emergency!
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Old 3rd April 2019, 03:52 PM   #731
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I think Trump will close the border, and the economic impact could well be the straw that breaks the camel's back and sends the US into recession.
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Old 3rd April 2019, 06:40 PM   #732
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Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger View Post
mgidm86's comments here might have been more appropriate for the "biggest political lie" thread, but I'm responding because those comments reminded me of something that hasn't drawn as much comment in this thread (and others) as I think it deserves. Bear with me as I approach the topic through personal anecdote.


Following 9/11, the city in which I work passed a law that largely banned the possession of pocketknives with a blade longer than 2.5 inches. (Some reasonable exceptions were added, but a few surrounding cities and towns adopted the original wording, which (on a literal reading of the law as worded) made it illegal for residents to carry a table knife from kitchen to dining room.)

The pocketknife I had been carrying for 20 years had a 2.75-inch blade. For my purposes, I discovered there's a big difference between 2.75 inches and 2.5 inches. I gave up my habit of slicing apples and making bagel sandwiches at work (because 2.5 inches was too short to slice the bagels) and started to buy cheese in smaller bricks I could slice with the shorter blade.

There was a silver lining. I had owned only one pocketknife, which I carried everywhere. That no longer made sense. I needed a 2.5-inch knife that would be legal in the city, but I needn't compromise so much on the knife I carry around where I live and when hiking/snowshoeing/skiiing/bicycling. I bought a dozen knives before settling on a couple that were legal in the city, a 3.25-inch blade for town, a small lockback for casual hikes, a larger lockback for serious day hikes, and a medium-sized fixed blade knife for serious backpacking. In the process, I became interested in knives, and knife collecting turned into a minor hobby for a while.

I also decided that, when I retire, I would move to a place where local politicians are less prone to pass illiberal laws that have a lot less to do with solving a problem than with giving a false impression that politicians are doing something about the problem. By influencing where I live, the Patriot Act and related post-9/11 legislation has had a big impact on my life.

Which gets back to this national emergency. Passing laws and promulgating regulations whose only real purpose is to allow politicians to say they've done something is often regarded, in the US, as a trait associated with "liberal" politicians. Nowadays, however, doing things that make no sense just so you can take credit for doing something has become a hallmark of Trumpism, and this national emergency is an example of that.

Whereas "liberal" grandstanding often resulted in laws and regulations that, while annoying in minor ways (as in the anti-knife legislation described above), might also have some small benefit, Trump's grandstanding has often been harmful out of all proportion to any conceivable benefit. This national emergency is an example of that, and Trump's threat to close the border with Mexico (which is of course related to the national emergency being discussed in this thread) would be an even more harmful example.

I didn't read this but I did indeed intend that for the "biggest lie" thread. I blame it on being sick for over 2 weeks.
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Old 3rd April 2019, 08:58 PM   #733
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I think Trump will close the border, and the economic impact could well be the straw that breaks the camel's back and sends the US into recession.
He won't care until his yes-men minders finally grow enough balls to tell him he is not winning as a result. Because until anything like this affects him directly and personally, he could not give a rat's.

And to be honest, this smacks of Miller, not Trump. Trump seems to be fairly ambivalent to whomever he hates - everyone is a fair target. But Miller has a specific and abiding hatred of Hispanics, being a white supremacy sympathiser from way back. Bolton is not far behind.
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Old 3rd April 2019, 08:59 PM   #734
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

Congress must get together and immediately eliminate the loopholes at the Border! If no action, Border, or large sections of Border, will close. This is a National Emergency!
If Trump doesn't close the border, does that mean he supports open borders?
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Old 5th April 2019, 11:11 AM   #735
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Trump Tweets

Democrats need to help fix the border crisis or get out of Trump’s way

Conservative support for Trump wall soars to 99 percent

How bad does border have to be for Democrats to admit it's an emergency?

Last edited by Captain_Swoop; 5th April 2019 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 5th April 2019, 11:14 AM   #736
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Trump Tweets

The Crazed and Dishonest Washington Post again purposely got it wrong. Mexico, for the first time in decades, is meaningfully apprehending illegals at THEIR Southern Border, before the long march up to the U.S. This is great and the way it should be. The big flow will stop.......

....However, if for any reason Mexico stops apprehending and bringing the illegals back to where they came from, the U.S. will be forced to Tariff at 25% all cars made in Mexico and shipped over the Border to us. If that doesn’t work, which it will, I will close the Border.......

....This will supersede USMCA. Likewise I am looking at an economic penalty for the 500 Billion Dollars in illegal DRUGS that are shipped and smuggled through Mexico and across our Southern Border. Over 100,00 Americans die each year, sooo many families destroyed!
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Old 5th April 2019, 11:17 AM   #737
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Trump Tweets

Heading to the Southern Border to show a section of the new Wall being built! Leaving now!

Will soon be landing in Calexico, California to look at a portion of the new WALL being built on our Southern Border. Within two years we will have close to 400 miles built or under construction & keeping our Country SAFE – not easy when the Dems are always fighting to stop you!
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Old 5th April 2019, 11:44 AM   #738
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

Democrats need to help fix the border crisis or get out of Trumpís way

Conservative support for Trump wall soars to 99 percent

How bad does border have to be for Democrats to admit it's an emergency?
It's a good thing that we can say with a good level of confidence that anything Trump says is a lie.
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Old 5th April 2019, 05:06 PM   #739
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

Heading to the Southern Border to show a section of the new Wall being built! Leaving now!

Will soon be landing in Calexico, California to look at a portion of the new WALL being built on our Southern Border. Within two years we will have close to 400 miles built or under construction & keeping our Country SAFE Ė not easy when the Dems are always fighting to stop you!
He's lying as usual. This isn't his "new wall":

Quote:
To date, the administration only completed the repair and replacement of older border fencing, all while claiming that the president's promise to build a brand new, concrete wall is being kept.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...-plans-n991376
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Old 5th April 2019, 06:53 PM   #740
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
He's lying as usual. This isn't his "new wall":


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...-plans-n991376
It just turns attention away from Hidalgo and Starr Counties. Also, he wasn't well received in McAllen, remember.

The actual ground zero communities being hit with (yet more) new land seizures and low-balling, late-paying, depression-era-law-they-found-laying-around-for-this shenanigans at CPB and the U.S. Southern District of Texas kinda hate his guts a little bit right now.
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Old 5th April 2019, 10:15 PM   #741
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
He's lying as usual. This isn't his "new wall":


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...-plans-n991376
The BIG LIE policy is rife with Trumpistas. He keeps calling this his "new wall" and his minions call it his "new wall", and they'll keep repeating that even in the face of evidence that it's merely a replacement section for the previous barriers.

It's like the "fully exonerated!" claims from Barr's synopsis. They keep repeating it an the clones at Fox pick up the meme, and it becomes True Fake News (differs from Fake News in that the lies come from Trump-friendly sources simply unquestioningly repeating press releases).

I wonder if Nielsen's plaque will be changed for future generations. "This is where Donald Trump made his last lying stand before being run out of office by the voting public in 2020."
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Old 6th April 2019, 05:05 PM   #742
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Trump Tweets

We have redeployed 750 agents at the Southern Border’s specific Ports of Entry in order to help with the large scale surge of illegal migrants trying to make their way into the United States. This will cause traffic & commercial delays until such time as Mexico is able to use....

....it’s powerful common sense Immigration Laws to stop illegals from coming through Mexico into the U.S., and removing them back to their country of origin. Until Mexico cleans up this ridiculous & massive migration, we will be focusing on Border Security, not Ports of Entry....

....In the meantime, the Democrats in Congress must help the Republicans (we need their votes) to end the horrible, costly and foolish loopholes in our Immigration Laws. Once that happens, all will be smooth. We can NEVER allow Open Borders!
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Old 6th April 2019, 05:36 PM   #743
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

Over 100,00 Americans die each year, sooo many families destroyed!
Hard to tell what he means given his ignorance of commas and place value. The CDC puts OD deaths at 72K/year for all overdose deaths, many of which involve fentanyl mailed from China.

Like Trump really cares about dead drug addicts. He's probably thrilled.

Colonial powers tried to inundate China with opium, and faced a backlash. Now China enhances the deadliness exponentially by shipping fentanyl and carfentanil into the U.S.

As long as there is demand in the U.S. people entrepreneurs will find ways to fulfill it. This never seems to occur to Trump. Bit too subtle for him I suspect.

Last edited by Minoosh; 6th April 2019 at 07:02 PM. Reason: attempted clarity
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Old 6th April 2019, 06:57 PM   #744
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
....This will supersede USMCA. Likewise I am looking at an economic penalty for the 500 Billion Dollars in illegal DRUGS that are shipped and smuggled through Mexico and across our Southern Border. Over 100,00 Americans die each year, sooo many families destroyed!
Anyone know what the actual breakdown is between drug deaths due to American made drugs and drugs coming across the border?
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Old 7th April 2019, 06:09 PM   #745
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

The Crazed and Dishonest Washington Post again purposely got it wrong. Mexico, for the first time in decades, is meaningfully apprehending illegals at THEIR Southern Border, before the long march up to the U.S. This is great and the way it should be. The big flow will stop.......

....However, if for any reason Mexico stops apprehending and bringing the illegals back to where they came from, the U.S. will be forced to Tariff at 25% all cars made in Mexico and shipped over the Border to us. If that doesnít work, which it will, I will close the Border.......

....This will supersede USMCA. Likewise I am looking at an economic penalty for the 500 Billion Dollars in illegal DRUGS that are shipped and smuggled through Mexico and across our Southern Border. Over 100,00 Americans die each year, sooo many families destroyed!
And over 60,000 die in the USA every year from it's own home-grown plague. Sooo many families destroyed there too. And so easy to fix if you had the balls, Donny. Perhaps you might want to start there before you start on other country's problems??

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/past-tolls
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Old 7th April 2019, 06:37 PM   #746
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Hard to tell what he means given his ignorance of commas and place value. The CDC puts OD deaths at 72K/year for all overdose deaths, many of which involve fentanyl mailed from China.

Like Trump really cares about dead drug addicts. He's probably thrilled.

Colonial powers tried to inundate China with opium, and faced a backlash. Now China enhances the deadliness exponentially by shipping fentanyl and carfentanil into the U.S.

As long as there is demand in the U.S. people entrepreneurs will find ways to fulfill it. This never seems to occur to Trump. Bit too subtle for him I suspect.
Pay him no mind. Heís undoubtedly on another blow bender.
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Old 7th April 2019, 08:05 PM   #747
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I find it hilarious that Trump wants to tariff Mexico but can't because of his NAFTA 2.0 agreement.
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Old 7th April 2019, 08:20 PM   #748
Foolmewunz
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I find it hilarious that Trump wants to tariff Mexico but can't because of his NAFTA 2.0 agreement.
Spawn of NAFTA has NOT been implemented. They squandered their opportunity in December when they still had both houses and could've gotten ratification. Congress Critters of the Republican stripe warned him and even tabled it so that the vote could take place before the end of the session, but there was no coordination between the House and the Administration and they didn't bring it up for a vote.

It's still not ratified and not likely to be.
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Old 7th April 2019, 08:21 PM   #749
Delphic Oracle
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I find it hilarious that Trump wants to tariff Mexico but can't because of his NAFTA 2.0 agreement.
USMCA has not been ratified by any of the signatory's legislatures (ninja'd by FMW).

Plus, according to Trump, "This will supersede USMCA."
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Old 7th April 2019, 08:30 PM   #750
thaiboxerken
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Oh wow, he plans to show Mexico that he can't be trusted before trying to get an agreement with Mexico..........
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Old 7th April 2019, 08:58 PM   #751
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

We have redeployed 750 agents at the Southern Borderís specific Ports of Entry in order to help with the large scale surge of illegal migrants trying to make their way into the United States. This will cause traffic & commercial delays until such time as Mexico is able to use....
I missed the sheer lunacy of this tweet the first time. The vast majority of illegal drugs - like, 90 percent - are smuggled through ports of entry. Now Trump wants to pull agents away from those ports. This proves he doesn't give a damn about OD deaths.

This is Trump's "it's time for some traffic" memo, and is somehow supposed to bring Mexico to its knees. I imagine he will expect California ports to bear the brunt of this staffing shift. If he pulls this **** in Texas, that state could turn blue in a hurry and Arizona will be none too pleased.

Border Patrol Staffing At Nine-Year Low, Despite Trump's Anti-Immigration Talk

I predict Trump will start calling for more military troops at the border, because that's really the only place to go with this. To me it sounds like he is boxing himself in. I've thought that before, though.
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Old 7th April 2019, 11:00 PM   #752
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I fail to see how anyone can be surprised any more at what Trump says or tries to do about the border issues. He is all over the shop and just making noise for the sake of making noise now, an attention-seeking ploy like a five-year-old brat. It should be plainly obvious to even the most jaded GOP person that reality and logic have long since left the Trump building.
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Old 8th April 2019, 02:33 AM   #753
Captain_Swoop
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Trump Tweets

More apprehensions (captures) at the Southern Border than in many years. Border Patrol amazing! Country is FULL! System has been broken for many years. Democrats in Congress must agree to fix loopholes - No Open Borders (Crimes & Drugs). Will Close Southern Border If necessary...

....Mexico must apprehend all illegals and not let them make the long march up to the United States, or we will have no other choice than to Close the Border and/or institute Tariffs. Our Country is FULL!
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Old 8th April 2019, 03:10 AM   #754
Regnad Kcin
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FULL, do you hear me? FULL!
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Old 8th April 2019, 03:29 AM   #755
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
FULL, do you hear me? FULL!
population density per square mile:

US: 84
Singapore: 18,645


I think there is a little space if we look closely.
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Old 8th April 2019, 04:41 AM   #756
Belz...
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

(snip) Our Country is FULL!
I'm sure the Natives said that five centuries ago.

What an ass.
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Old 9th April 2019, 01:45 AM   #757
Captain_Swoop
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Trump Tweets

A 9th Circuit Judge just ruled that Mexico is too dangerous for migrants. So unfair to the U.S. OUT OF CONTROL!

Tyranny of judiciary as another Obama appointee in San Francisco stymies Donald Trump⁩
@IngrahamAngle
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Old 9th April 2019, 03:54 AM   #758
thaiboxerken
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What's scary is that he's putting all kinds of right-wing loonies in the courts now which would let Trump-like policies pass without any judicial checks.
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Old 9th April 2019, 04:06 AM   #759
Belz...
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A little revolution now and then is a healthy thing, don't you think?
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Old 9th April 2019, 08:31 PM   #760
Norman Alexander
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Yep, the USA is full.

Full as a boot.
No more room there.
Full.
Full.
Full.
Don't come.
No room at the inn.
You won't be able to fit.
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