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Old 26th February 2019, 01:43 AM   #321
dann
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Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
As of yet there is no evidence it played any role in this situation. If it plays any role in increasing the likelihood of violence for the average Danish traveler in Muslim countries, I would need some specific evidence in regards to an uptick in attacks directed at them after the publication, and at what level it remains today. There was clearly an increase in the immediate aftermath of publication. Are those affects still felt today? If not, why bother insinuating it as a cause.

Same as I would need to see some evidence vacationing in Muslim majority countries for westerners is more dangerous than visiting comparable non-Muslim countries. In the case of Morocco I am not seeing it, but I could be persuaded either way with some evidence.

PS to my answer to you in post 314:

It's also possible that the Scandinavian students were targeted primarily to harm the Moroccan tourist trade. According to Wikipedia's page about the case:

Quote:
The killers had agreed to carry out a terrorist act on either security services or foreign tourists, before deciding to travel to the Imlil region to look for foreigners and where they would target the two backpackers.
Murders of Louisa Vesterager Jespersen and Maren Ueland: Murders and investigation (Wikipedia)

This is backed up by a Swedish expert:

Quote:
According to Swedish Defence University researcher Magnus Ranstorp, terrorists attacking tourists is not a new phenomenon and it aims to destabilise the country where such attacks take place.
Murders of Louisa Vesterager Jespersen and Maren Ueland: Background (Wikipedia)

So killing the tourists may 'just' have been the terrorists' way of harming Morocco.
A U.S. backed terrorist did a very similar thing in Cuba in 1997: Trying to kill foreign tourists/businessmen (succeeding in killing one Italian-Canadian entrepreneur) in order to harm the country's tourist industry:

Quote:
In 1997, Posada was implicated in a series of terrorist bombings in Cuba intended to deter the growing tourism trade on the island. An Italian-born Canadian national, Fabio di Celmo, was killed and 11 others were wounded as a result. (...) Posada was reportedly disappointed with the reluctance of news organisations in the US to report the bombing attacks, saying "If there is no publicity, the job is useless".
Luis Posada Carriles: Tourist bombings of 1997

Cuban author Daniel Chavarria, recently deceased, interviewed the mercenary paid by Carriles and wrote an excellent short story about the mentality of this kind of terrorist: All Because of That ******* Spanish Kid. (The Spanish kid is another tourist, who became suspicious when he noticed the terrorist leave a bag with one of the bombs.)
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 26th February 2019, 01:59 AM   #322
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I have to make something clear that may otherwise come off as a contradiction in terms:

When I wrote about the majority of Muslims - in Morocco and elsewhere.

Originally Posted by dann View Post
The majority of them aren't representative of Islam. They are ordinary Muslims, but they aren't representative of Muslims.

What I meant was that they aren't elected representatives of Islam, but in the other sense of the word they are indeed representative of Islam: the millions of Moroccan Muslims who condemned the murderers.
The ISIS killers, on the other hand, may or may not be representatives of ISIS in the first sense of the word, i.e. acting on behalf of ISIS, but fortunately they aren't representatives of Muslims in any other sense of the word, and definitely not typical of Muslims, which is what baron and Baylor claim when they call them representatives of Islam/Muslims.

I hope that I made it clear when I continued:

Quote:
Look it up in other dictionaries, too. Read it several times until you get the idea! They all say approximately the same thing. It's possible that white supremacists have their own particular version of a dictionary, I don't know, but this is what the ones I've found say: You can either be a representative for instance of an organization, like the Catholic pope, for instance, but the Islamic extremists weren't elected to act on behalf of ordinary Muslims. They may have been elected to act on behalf of ISIS, I don't know.
When millions of Moroccan Muslims condemn these extremists, it also becomes apparent that they, i.e. the killers, aren't typical Muslims. They may be typical representatives of ISIS, but they aren't typical representatives of Muslims or even typical of Moroccan Muslims!
The highlighted bit was added to make it more clear.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 26th February 2019 at 02:01 AM.
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Old 26th February 2019, 01:59 AM   #323
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
What is your evidence? And what does not having kids have to do with it?
You know, it's that automatic and innate superiority that comes with blowing your beans up someone's muff/having someone else's beans blown up your own muff.
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Old 26th February 2019, 02:09 AM   #324
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Just noticed those classings: dark European and oriental? Have a feeling I know what type of publisher this came from
It seems to be an interpretation of the Identity Code system British police use to record the apparent appearance of individuals.

Wikipedia: IC codes

IC1 White - North European
IC2 White - South European
IC3 Black
IC4 Asian - Indian subcontinent
IC5 Chinese, Korean, Japanese, or other Southeast Asian
IC6 Arab or North African
IC7 Unknown

Last edited by Information Analyst; 26th February 2019 at 02:13 AM.
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Old 26th February 2019, 02:40 AM   #325
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
You know, it's that automatic and innate superiority that comes with blowing your beans up someone's muff/having someone else's beans blown up your own muff.

No, no, no, no! Remember whom we're dealing with here! Not "someone" or "someone else". It is contingent upon that someone being pure-blooded white! - or at least as pure-blooded white as the U.S. white supremacists have deluded themselves into imagining that they are: The Racial Spectacle of DNA Test Result Videos (NYT, May 6, 2018)
I'm pretty sure that my ex-wife wouldn't have been appropriate for this purpose at all!


ETA: smartcooky beat me to it!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 26th February 2019 at 02:59 AM.
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Old 26th February 2019, 05:25 AM   #326
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Textbook willful ignorance.

I may have a low opinion about what certain people think. But that's a far cry from not caring. Know thy enemy, etc.
Good for you, but there's literally no difference between us, it's just that you waste your time caring about it, and it's also telling that you consider these people your enemy. Are you wearing chain-mail?
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Old 26th February 2019, 05:28 AM   #327
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
The media has done very little except propagate Islamophobia for years in the UK. Of course the resident racists don't think they go far enough bit then they wouldn't would they?

The same people get their news from Tommy Robinson's twitter feed and UKIP leaflets
I agree, but I also think it swings both ways, as you get certain news outlets that tend to feed the other side of the spectrum, so I think it's bad from both ends, and people are being shot from both sides if they're allowing the media to educate them on the matter.

Most of it is common sense, but we know most people don't use it.
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Old 26th February 2019, 05:33 AM   #328
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
I agree, but I also think it swings both ways, as you get certain news outlets that tend to feed the other side of the spectrum, so I think it's bad from both ends, and people are being shot from both sides if they're allowing the media to educate them on the matter.

Most of it is common sense, but we know most people don't use it.
Except you dont really. The mainstream media and popular press generally demonise Islam and Muslims. If you have reached the conclusion that Muslims are harmless its not from being brainwashed by the media.
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Old 26th February 2019, 05:36 AM   #329
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Except you dont really. The mainstream media and popular press generally demonise Islam and Muslims. If you have reached the conclusion that Muslims are harmless its not from being brainwashed by the media.
I neither buy into the idea that all Muslims are dangerous or harmless. But you tend to see stories that pander to both crowds, well, I certainly have, though I can't sit here and rattle off examples. It's just what I've seen over the last several years, some people whine about us being the problem, others whine about them being the problem, but all of them are whining.

People are people, as I've said in another thread concerning this ISF "white vs black" nonsense. Mugs come in every colour as far as I'm concerned, whether they contain tea, coffee or cat piss.
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Old 26th February 2019, 05:40 AM   #330
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
It seems to be an interpretation of the Identity Code system British police use to record the apparent appearance of individuals.

Wikipedia: IC codes

IC1 White - North European
IC2 White - South European
IC3 Black
IC4 Asian - Indian subcontinent
IC5 Chinese, Korean, Japanese, or other Southeast Asian
IC6 Arab or North African
IC7 Unknown
Are 'dark European' and 'Oriental' acceptable descriptors over yonder? In the States, they would be used almost as slurs, or at least very boorish descriptors. Very unusual terminology from the BBC, I would have thought
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Old 26th February 2019, 06:45 AM   #331
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
I neither buy into the idea that all Muslims are dangerous or harmless.

Me neither. But if you debunk false accusations against them, a white supremacist immediately calls you a race traitor. It appears to be the only way they can deal with the cognitive dissonance.

Quote:
But you tend to see stories that pander to both crowds, well, I certainly have, though I can't sit here and rattle off examples. It's just what I've seen over the last several years, some people whine about us being the problem, others whine about them being the problem, but all of them are whining.

They are? I wouldn't be able to point out any examples of people 'pandering to Muslims' as you put it, and when baron claims that everybody and all the media do, it's seems to be impossible for him to find actual examples. Who actually whines "about us being the problem"? (I assume that you mean white people when you say us, and not white supremacists ...) Do the alleged whiners who say that we are the problem actually exist other than as white supremacists' delusions? If there are so many of them, it shouldn't be so hard to find examples.
I can see why Muslims would feel the need to stress the idea that Islam is a religion of peace in their defence against the accusations that they are all terrorists trying to conquer the world, and I can see why some religious scholars start to make serious comparisons between Christianity and Islam to debunk the ideas of anti-Muslims, but other than that I really can't see what you're talking about.

Quote:
People are people, as I've said in another thread concerning this ISF "white vs black" nonsense. Mugs come in every colour as far as I'm concerned, whether they contain tea, coffee or cat piss.

I agree. And I can think of a number of Muslims (of all colours) who are bad people but hardly ever because they are Muslims. Much the same way that I can think of a number of white Christians who are bad people but not because of their colour or religion.
However, when it comes to white supremacists, it's impossible to find a decent one. It would be a contradiction in terms.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 26th February 2019, 07:32 AM   #332
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
However, I actually wandered around Morocco sort of alone. The guy (friend) I was with was walking quite a distance behind me.

I've been all over the world often traveling alone. Only in a few places have I been that I was concerned for my safety and some of those were Western countries, some weren't. Most of the time my fears before I got there didn't turn out to be real risks when I got there.
One upside of aging: These days in bad neighborhoods the locals see not a sweet young thing but a crazy old white lady.

The thing is, I don't feel all that safe at home, either. In fact I may be statistically less safe. I don't usually drive in other countries and gun crime is not such an issue.
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Old 26th February 2019, 08:01 AM   #333
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
Good for you, but there's literally no difference between us, it's just that you waste your time caring about it, and it's also telling that you consider these people your enemy. Are you wearing chain-mail?
Complete sentences? Yes. Intelligible? Not within shouting distance.

But you're right about one thing: I do consider violent Islamists as an enemy.

I'm reminded how after 911, it was politically incorrect to discuss al queda motivations, as if willful ignorance is somehow righteous or wise. It's odd to see that attitude parroted years later in a community that is supposedly about knowledge.
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Old 26th February 2019, 12:05 PM   #334
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Yeah India has a mix of areas, not homogenous.
Which is probably India's biggest problem:Seperatasim is a huge issue. The Sikhs are the most prominent;but there are plenty of other groups who would really rather not be a part of India, at least politically.
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Old 26th February 2019, 03:37 PM   #335
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Are 'dark European' and 'Oriental' acceptable descriptors over yonder? In the States, they would be used almost as slurs, or at least very boorish descriptors. Very unusual terminology from the BBC, I would have thought
Why would "dark European" be a slur, and "light European" not? Here in Europe it's pretty much a non-issue that southern Europeans tends to be noticeably darker skinned than northern Europeans. "Southern European," is just a more neutral substitute to the more historic "Mediterranean" or "olive-skinned." The BBC rendering it as "dark European" - along with "light European" - is probably just an attempt to decode the what might seem ambiguous official IC1/IC2 classification for non-European readers.

Although somewhat frowned upon, "Oriental" is probably unavoidable, because - in the UK at least - "Asian" means something different, but again it's the BBC trying to condense the actual IC5 definition.
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Old 26th February 2019, 04:48 PM   #336
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
So now it's your usual goalpost-shifting trick?
No.

For those not following this intentionally convoluted discussion:

I posted this image to show China cares more about its citizens than Scandinavian governments care about theirs:



Information analyst said Chinese tourists are not in any more danger in Black neighborhoods than they are in tourist areas.

I posted this image to show blacks commit the plurality of acid attacks and violent crime despite being 3% of the British population.



Now he's rambling on about gangs or something I don't know.
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Old 26th February 2019, 04:55 PM   #337
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Except you dont really. The mainstream media and popular press generally demonise Islam and Muslims. If you have reached the conclusion that Muslims are harmless its not from being brainwashed by the media.
I was going to make a long reply to this but I'm late to an Ariana Grande concert.
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Old 26th February 2019, 05:02 PM   #338
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
It also seems to pass Baylor by that most of the victims of Muslim Extermists are other Muslims. Religious fanatics usually reserve their worst hate for Heretics rather then Infidels.
Another thing people often say here as if this is some brilliant refutation. Muslims are likely to kill other Muslims than non-Muslims. Wow. Thanks. This doesn't tell us anything meaningful about the world, other than Muslims live in proximity to other Muslims. Ok.
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Old 26th February 2019, 05:24 PM   #339
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
I agree. And I can think of a number of Muslims (of all colours) who are bad people but hardly ever because they are Muslims. Much the same way that I can think of a number of white Christians who are bad people but not because of their colour or religion.
What did I just say?

Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
We have grown men on this board who say this as if this is some great retort. "There are evil people in all parts of the world," is something you hear in a 5th grade social studies class.
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Old 26th February 2019, 05:50 PM   #340
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Just out of curiosity Baylor, how should the US handle it's Muslim population?
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Old 26th February 2019, 10:17 PM   #341
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
No.

For those not following this intentionally convoluted discussion:
Translation: "I'm going to continue to post nonsense, despite being called out on it. Again."

Quote:
I posted this image to show China cares more about its citizens than Scandinavian governments care about theirs:

https://i.imgur.com/jc1ovSB.png
No, you posted some bollocks claim by someone in China, who knows as much about the subject as you do.

Quote:
Information analyst said Chinese tourists are not in any more danger in Black neighborhoods than they are in tourist areas.
This is a lie. I did not say that. Try to keep up.

Quote:
I posted this image to show blacks commit the plurality of acid attacks and violent crime despite being 3% of the British population.

https://i.imgur.com/sFewmjW.png
No, you posted a graphic that relates to London, where 14% of the population is Black, so you're out by a factor of 4. In some boroughs it's much higher than 14%, up to 27% in Lewisham, which is where I happen to live. I had a lovely day yesterday. I went into the centre of Lewisham with my 2-year old daughter, took her swimming, went to the bank and the Post Office, did a bit of shopping, and then we got the bus home. There were black people everywhere, doing similarly normal stuff. I seem to have neglected to feel terrified. My daughter similarly failed to cringe in fear when the black till operators in both the department store and supermarket spoke to her. Shock! Horror!

Oh, and you're also ignoring the whopping 20% unknowns in the graph. So either you don't understand what you're posting, or you're lying. Again.

Quote:
Now he's rambling on about gangs or something I don't know.
That is also a lie. Or stupidity on your part. Again.

Last edited by Information Analyst; 26th February 2019 at 10:22 PM.
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:44 AM   #342
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post

Originally Posted by Balyor
Information analyst said Chinese tourists are not in any more danger in Black neighborhoods than they are in tourist areas.
This is a lie. I did not say that. Try to keep up.
I'm probably confused here, but you did say this:

Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Chinese tourists are more at risk in tourist areas that the ones this crock warns them against.
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Old 27th February 2019, 04:22 AM   #343
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
I'm probably confused here, but you did say this:
Quote:
Chinese tourists are more at risk in tourist areas that the ones this crock warns them against.
Operative parts highlighted. Tourists are far more likely to be the victims of crime in tourist areas because they'll obviously look like tourists there. Baylor fixated on, "Black neighborhoods [sic]," when in fact the Alf Garnet comedy "advice" referred more generally to, "areas mainly populated by Indians, Pakistanis and black people." That's still bollocks, though, not least because - surprise! - there are Chinese/South-East Asians residents in those areas, as well. I suspect the "advice" assumes that Chinese visitors will be targeted because they'll stand out by virtue of being Chinese, which they actually won't.

Last edited by Information Analyst; 27th February 2019 at 05:32 AM.
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Old 27th February 2019, 04:37 AM   #344
Archie Gemmill Goal
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Operative parts highlighted. Tourists are far more likely to be the victims of crime in tourist areas because they'll obviously look like tourists there. Baylor fixated on, "in Black neighborhoods [sic]," when in fact the Alf Garnet comedy "advice" referred more generally to, "areas mainly populated by Indians, Pakistanis and black people." That's still bollocks, though, not least because - surprise! - there are Chinese/South-East Asians residents in those areas, as well. I suspect the "advice" assumes that Chinese visitors will be targeted because they'll stand out by virtue of being Chinese, which they actually won't.
I actually think it's much simpler than that. What they mean is 'poor areas'. Which happen to be more populated by BAME folks.

In some ways for a completely naive tourist it might even be sound if not very helpful advice... if you happen to be in an area where there is a high BAME population you may well be in one of the rougher parts of town. Hideously worded though.

Now whether you are more likely to be a victim is a different story... a victim of what? Mugging? Pickpocketing? Murder? Violent Assault? Acid Attack?

Regardless of all of this the numbers posted in that graphic are completely irrlevant to the question as they are in reference to Acid Attacks in London which are a gang phenomenon.

A google for Chinese tourist attacked in London throws up one wounded in a terror attack in a touristy area and not a lot else. In that regard it seems to be an entirely unwarranted piece of advice.
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Old 27th February 2019, 04:52 AM   #345
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Regardless of all of this the numbers posted in that graphic are completely irrlevant to the question as they are in reference to Acid Attacks in London which are a gang phenomenon.
Yeah, because three year olds are joining gangs nowadays (attackers all foreigners)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ack-worcester/

Homosexuals are also involved in gang warfare, by default (attackers all Asian)

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/01/1...-bank-holiday/

Women who sit in parks are also clearly gang members (attacker black)

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/696087...on-drill-gang/

Quote:
He was jailed for dousing Joanne Rand, 47, in sulphuric acid while she sitting on a park after visiting her daughter's grave... She died 11 days later from multiple organ failure after contracting septicaemia due to the burns.
And of course, we all know Katie Piper was a gang banger before her black boyfriend paid another black man to burn her face off

https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbi...8-acid-attack/
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Old 27th February 2019, 05:49 AM   #346
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
I actually think it's much simpler than that. What they mean is 'poor areas'. Which happen to be more populated by BAME folks.
True, although you have to get down to some pretty small geographies to actually be "mainly populated by Indians, Pakistanis and black people" - like individual streets. Even in London the vast majority of places are really "mainly populated by white people," and it goes without saying that some of them can be pretty poor, as well.
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Old 27th February 2019, 06:09 AM   #347
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
True
It's not true. In our county, to the far south west, is a place called Barrow in Furness, recently deemed the most poverty-stricken town in England. A great deal of low level crime goes on in Barrow, but robberies are around 3-10% of the rate in similarly populated London boroughs, gang crime is virtually nil, knife crime is extremely low (it may even be non-existent outside of domestic scenarios), murders are vanishingly rare and acid attacks? To my knowledge not a single one - indeed, not a single actual acid attack in the whole of Cumbria (7 corrosive substance cases in 4 years, none acid AFIAK), including deprived places like Barrow, parts of Carlisle, Workington, Maryport, Whitehaven, etc. with a total population of 500K. I'm left scratching my head as to what might account for this discrepancy... 96 - 99.8% whites in the areas listed... no, can't be that...
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Old 27th February 2019, 07:11 AM   #348
dann
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
What did I just say?


Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
We have grown men on this board who say this as if this is some great retort. "There are evil people in all parts of the world," is something you hear in a 5th grade social studies class.

I don't see your point. Is it to prove what you were taught in fifth grade?! I never raised any doubts about that, so you may confuse me with another poster.
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Last edited by dann; 27th February 2019 at 07:32 AM.
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Old 27th February 2019, 07:37 AM   #349
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
I don't see your point. Is it to prove what you were taught in fifth grade?! I never raised any doubts about that, so you may confuse me with another poster.
Saying things like, "I can think of a number of white Christians who are bad people but not because of their colour or religion," says nothing about the world, and it does nothing for me. I just don't feel the religious euphoria you do when saying stuff like this.
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Old 27th February 2019, 08:49 AM   #350
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Why would "dark European" be a slur, and "light European" not? Here in Europe it's pretty much a non-issue that southern Europeans tends to be noticeably darker skinned than northern Europeans. "Southern European," is just a more neutral substitute to the more historic "Mediterranean" or "olive-skinned." The BBC rendering it as "dark European" - along with "light European" - is probably just an attempt to decode the what might seem ambiguous official IC1/IC2 classification for non-European readers.
It carries the suggestion that if you are not light, you are 'dark'. Mediterranean or olive would be medium, if anything, I would think, so it sort of sounds like 'light' and 'other' as the classing. A descriptor like 'dark American' would be seen as fightin' words in the States.

Quote:
Although somewhat frowned upon, "Oriental" is probably unavoidable, because - in the UK at least - "Asian" means something different, but again it's the BBC trying to condense the actual IC5 definition.
I can see that, particularly the 'Asian' connotation. Interesting difference in descriptor, compared to what is politically correct (ugh) in the States.
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Old 27th February 2019, 10:01 AM   #351
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
I don't see....

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Old 27th February 2019, 10:18 AM   #352
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
It carries the suggestion that if you are not light, you are 'dark'. Mediterranean or olive would be medium, if anything, I would think, so it sort of sounds like 'light' and 'other' as the classing. A descriptor like 'dark American' would be seen as fightin' words in the States.
Yes, well obviously Europe isn't as obsessed with the one drop rule as America still seems to be. As I said, it seems that the BBC tried - rather ham-fistedly - to translate the IC coding for North European and South European into a form that might be better understood outside Europe. The basic difference is that, generally speaking, South Europeans are somewhat darker than North Europeans, but they're still White (i.e. "European"). For that reason, "White European" is really the more wrong choice, not "Dark European."

Of course, it goes without saying that there are words that are considered innocuous in the US that would be regarded as highly offensive in the UK, "Spastic" and especially "Spaz" being the most obvious examples.

Last edited by Information Analyst; 27th February 2019 at 10:20 AM.
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Old 27th February 2019, 10:45 AM   #353
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post


It's not "whataboutism" to point out that this incident is less common in Morocco than gun killings happen in the USA.
Uh - yea, that's the very definition of whataboutism.
The poster pointed out a few things
- There exist toxic ideas in Islam that motivate violence against women and non-muslims
- Leftist cultures (the kind that go around preaching to people about 'not judging') have consistently underestimated and minimized the danger that these ideas create.
- These young girls got themselves killed because of this.

Now, these claims stand alone. They are either true, partially true, or not true. Pointing out that violence, or even violent ideologies, exist elsewhere is a red herring. It does not even address the claim in the original post. So, please, enought with the tu-quoque style argument that is always brought into these discussions. Address the claim directly with evidence for or against.
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Old 27th February 2019, 10:54 AM   #354
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Saying things like, "I can think of a number of white Christians who are bad people but not because of their colour or religion," says nothing about the world, and it does nothing for me. I just don't feel the religious euphoria you do when saying stuff like this.

I don't know why you seem to think that I might be doing it for you. It wasn't addressed to you. It was an answer to another poster, Gilbert Syndrome. However, I wasn't unaware of the effect it would have on you.

I am also aware that you have a very different way of getting your "religious euphoria", something that you have been attributing to me throughout this thread, but a lie doesn't get better the more times you tell it. In this case I think that it just becomes more obvious.
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 27th February 2019, 10:58 AM   #355
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Originally Posted by mgardner View Post
Uh - yea, that's the very definition of whataboutism.
The poster pointed out a few things
- There exist toxic ideas in Islam that motivate violence against women and non-muslims
- Leftist cultures (the kind that go around preaching to people about 'not judging') have consistently underestimated and minimized the danger that these ideas create.
- These young girls got themselves killed because of this.

Now, these claims stand alone. They are either true, partially true, or not true. Pointing out that violence, or even violent ideologies, exist elsewhere is a red herring. It does not even address the claim in the original post. So, please, enought with the tu-quoque style argument that is always brought into these discussions. Address the claim directly with evidence for or against.
One of the problems with the original post (it's one of Baylor's, so obviously there are problems, plural) is that over 11 million tourists visit Morocco every year.
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Old 27th February 2019, 02:24 PM   #356
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
It's not true. In our county, to the far south west, is a place called Barrow in Furness, recently deemed the most poverty-stricken town in England. A great deal of low level crime goes on in Barrow, but robberies are around 3-10% of the rate in similarly populated London boroughs, gang crime is virtually nil, knife crime is extremely low (it may even be non-existent outside of domestic scenarios), murders are vanishingly rare and acid attacks? To my knowledge not a single one - indeed, not a single actual acid attack in the whole of Cumbria (7 corrosive substance cases in 4 years, none acid AFIAK), including deprived places like Barrow, parts of Carlisle, Workington, Maryport, Whitehaven, etc. with a total population of 500K. I'm left scratching my head as to what might account for this discrepancy... 96 - 99.8% whites in the areas listed... no, can't be that...
If you think acid attacks are a 'Black' crime, you might be surprised to know that acid attacks were a common form of GBH amongst the lower orders long before mass immigration.
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Old 27th February 2019, 03:15 PM   #357
dann
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
One of the problems with the original post (it's one of Baylor's, so obviously there are problems, plural) is that over 11 million tourists visit Morocco every year.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't Baylor and the Islamic extremist killers find common ground here? Wouldn't they both like to put an end to Europeans visiting Morocco as tourists?
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 27th February 2019, 03:39 PM   #358
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
If you think acid attacks are a 'Black' crime, you might be surprised to know that acid attacks were a common form of GBH amongst the lower orders long before mass immigration.
It was also a favorite tool of the Mafia in dealing with possible informants.
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Old 27th February 2019, 11:59 PM   #359
Archie Gemmill Goal
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Originally Posted by mgardner View Post
Uh - yea, that's the very definition of whataboutism.
The poster pointed out a few things
- There exist toxic ideas in Islam that motivate violence against women and non-muslims
- Leftist cultures (the kind that go around preaching to people about 'not judging') have consistently underestimated and minimized the danger that these ideas create.
- These young girls got themselves killed because of this.

Now, these claims stand alone. They are either true, partially true, or not true. Pointing out that violence, or even violent ideologies, exist elsewhere is a red herring. It does not even address the claim in the original post. So, please, enought with the tu-quoque style argument that is always brought into these discussions. Address the claim directly with evidence for or against.
It's hard to assess whether ideas are toxic or dangerous if you don't compare them to other places without the ideas no?

2 tourists getting killed in Morocco doesn't really tell us anything at all.

Morocco appears to have one of the lowest homicide rates around so it doesn't appear that this 'toxic' ideology reflects in the willingness of people to murder.
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Old 28th February 2019, 02:28 AM   #360
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Of course, it goes without saying that there are words that are considered innocuous in the US that would be regarded as highly offensive in the UK, "Spastic" and especially "Spaz" being the most obvious examples.
Toothbrush is another.

Last edited by Baylor; 28th February 2019 at 02:39 AM.
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