[Continuation] 2020 Presidential Election part 3 - Page 3

Craig4 · 8th November 2020, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Donald Trump Jr. tweeted
@DonaldJTrumpJr

America Won’t Trust Elections Until The Voter Fraud Is Investigated

Actually, about 75 million of us are totally okay with how the election went.

wareyin · 8th November 2020, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by SezMe

A butt dial, but it was a post instead of dial. I didn't think "butt post"^* would sound mature.

^* tee hee

thaiboxerken · 8th November 2020, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by Craig4

Actually, about 75 million of us are totally okay with how the election went.

Put the election under audit with Trump's taxes.

Captain_Swoop · 8th November 2020, 07:04 PM

Eric Trump tweeted
@EricTrump

Software from hell! There needs to be a manual recount of every ballot in this country right now!

Meadmaker · 8th November 2020, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by Craig4

Actually, about 75 million of us are totally okay with how the election went.

And at least half of the others trust that the outcome is real. It's sad that there are so many people who don't, but when the President is actively working to subvert that trust, what do you expect? It's very, very, bad.

And, I don't think anyone would object to fraud investigations. In fact, I think it should absolutely be done, as long as it's not too expensive. If you throw in voter suppression along with voter fraud, I would welcome an investigation.

acbytesla · 8th November 2020, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Donald Trump Jr. tweeted
@DonaldJTrumpJr

America Won’t Trust Elections Until The Voter Fraud Is Investigated

Jr is a chip off the block. He has ZERO evidence of Voter Fraud and yet he insists that it be investigated.

Man am I sick of Trump family members pulling a turd out of their ass and demanding that we examine it.

turingtest · 8th November 2020, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Donald Trump Jr. tweeted
@DonaldJTrumpJr

America Won’t Trust Elections Until The Voter Fraud Is Investigated

The sheer dishonesty on display here is just sickening. You can't know if it's fraud until it's investigated; and "not trusting elections" is exactly the outcome you and your dad have been aiming for from the beginning of the campaign and want to maintain now, for no other reason than that narrative's usefulness to you.

Craig4 · 8th November 2020, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

And at least half of the others trust that the outcome is real. It's sad that there are so many people who don't, but when the President is actively working to subvert that trust, what do you expect? It's very, very, bad.

And, I don't think anyone would object to fraud investigations. In fact, I think it should absolutely be done, as long as it's not too expensive. If you throw in voter suppression along with voter fraud, I would welcome an investigation.

Absent Trump or the campaign coming up with the five Ws on a specific instance of fraud, I don't see why we would need an investigation. 145ish million ballots is kind of a big place to start.

eerok · 8th November 2020, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Eric Trump tweeted
@EricTrump

Software from hell! There needs to be a manual recount of every ballot in this country right now!

Every ballot in the country? What a buffoon.

trustbutverify · 8th November 2020, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Eric Trump tweeted
@EricTrump

Software from hell! There needs to be a manual recount of every ballot in this country right now!

Get those traders back in here! Turn those machines back on!

turingtest · 8th November 2020, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by eerok

Every ballot in the country? What a buffoon.

Well, Trump's got one son who speaks for the dishonest among his supporters, so he needs the other one to speak for the abysmally stupid.

shemp · 8th November 2020, 07:25 PM

Meanwhile:

Arkansas police chief resigns after calling for violence against Democrats

Quote:

(CNN)An Arkansas police chief who posted calls for violence against Democrats on social media resigned from his job on Saturday.

Lang Holland, who was police chief of the roughly 1,300-person city of Marshall, Arkansas, drew outrage from both local residents and people around the country after making ominous comments online in recent days. In addition to repeatedly saying Democrats should be killed, he shared memes from conspiracy theory QAnon and claimed that the election was being stolen.

"Death to all Marxist Democrats," Holland posted on Parler, a new social media site popular with conservatives and used as an alternative to Twitter. "Take no prisoners leave no survivors!!"

One image he shared depicted a group of Democrats, including Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, wearing prison jumpsuits. Under the image he wrote: "I pray all those in that picture hang on the gallows and are drawn and quartered!!!! Anything less is not acceptable."

CNN could not reach Holland for comment. His Parler account was made private on Saturday.

Dr.Sid · 8th November 2020, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by shemp

Meanwhile:

Arkansas police chief resigns after calling for violence against Democrats

Is this covered by freedom of speech in US ? It's not here. This would 2 years in prison, possibly parole, depending on context.

eerok · 8th November 2020, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by turingtest

Well, Trump's got one son who speaks for the dishonest among his supporters, so he needs the other one to speak for the abysmally stupid.

One (darkly) funny thing is that I believe Trump could pay for recounts in some states, but it's not cheap, his campaign is broke, and he'd never spend his own money.

And of course he'd take the risk of losing more bigly.

acbytesla · 8th November 2020, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by trustbutverify

Get those traders back in here! Turn those machines back on!

Mortimer, your brother is not well. We'd better call an ambulance.

Meadmaker · 8th November 2020, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by Craig4

Absent Trump or the campaign coming up with the five Ws on a specific instance of fraud, I don't see why we would need an investigation. 145ish million ballots is kind of a big place to start.

I think there's a certain amount of what you might call "maintenance" type investigations that are useful in assuring the public that there's nothing to the allegations. Not that it will ever be 100% effective, either. As the old saying goes, you can't reason someone out of something that he didn't reason himself into.

The people shouting the loudest about election fraud are, of course, not thinking at all. They're just saying that if their guy lost, it much be fraud. Those people cannot be reached at all. Beyond that, though, there's another group who hears the allegations, and can't come up with any explanation for the sketchy evidence, and sees the allegations dismissed, and begins to think maybe there's something to it.

People who come here are more likely to have investigated some sort of conspiracy theories before, and see all of the tell-tale signs of a CT in the "evidence" of election fraud today. However, most people have never done that. A little bit of official word demonstrating why the apparently suspicious activity has a perfectly innocent explanation, or that the effect is so tiny the suspicious ballots could not have changed anything, would go a long way toward convincing the ones on the fence about whether they think there might be election fraud.

For example, I just saw a video of a group of yahoos in our state capital of Lansing, Michigan, chanting "Dead People Voted!" So, they are sure that lots of dead people voted and they probably think Michigan was stolen, or at least that the evil Democrats did the same thing in Georgia and stole that one. Maybe they saw the video, posted on this forum from a tweet, showing what appeared to be evidence that a vote was received from a 120 year old woman in Jackson County. Well, I saw that video, and I cannot come up with a convincing explanation of how that came to pass. I'm sure lots of other people saw that video, too, and some, failing to come up with a non-fraudulent explanation, are sure that means it proves vote fraud.

So, I would like someone to look into what happened there. I don't mean a million dollar investigation. I just mean that I think it would be worth the effort if someone in the Jackson County Clerk's office checked out whether the video is really legitimate, whether the woman in question really represents a woman, long since passed away, but who is still on the voter rolls, but who nevertheless recorded a vote. I'm guessing not, but I don't know the explanation of how that might have come to pass any other way.

It just helps to reassure people. If you can show them that one or two of the "proof of voter fraud" videos that they have seen on youtube are not legitimate, they might think that there's probably good explanations for the others, too. If you ignore all of them, and just say, "There's no evidence.", the people might think that you are just ignoring the evidence.

ETA: Newt Gingrich is running around talking about vote fraud, and citing an example from the Franken-Coleman recount about an envelope full of ballots that magically appeared to put the Democrat, Franken, over the top. Well, I know exactly the envelope he's talking about, and why the overwhelming evidence is that it was a perfectly legitimate envelope full of real votes, that should have been, and was, counted. However, I follow this sort of thing a lot more closely than most. If you can find the most widespread allegations you can find, and put together a report detailing the reasons why this is almost certainly not voter fraud, it could make a difference in the mind of some of the protestors. Not all, of course. Some are hopeless, but some are reachable.

shemp · 8th November 2020, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

Is this covered by freedom of speech in US ? It's not here. This would 2 years in prison, possibly parole, depending on context.

Unlike your country, we're not a communist country.

Seriously, it's not illegal here, although the Secret Service might want to have a chat with him to determine if he's made a credible threat. But the First Amendment only protects your right to free speech; it does not protect him from the decisions of his employer, who has a legal right to "request" his resignation.

Regnad Kcin · 8th November 2020, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by Distracted1

Will Trump yield, and this avoid? Or guilty in defense be thus destroyed?

Burma Shave

Tero · 8th November 2020, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by eerok

Every ballot in the country? What a buffoon.

some satire on that topic:

http://karireport.blogspot.com/2020/...0-863-097.html

Elagabalus · 8th November 2020, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

I think there's a certain amount of what you might call "maintenance" type investigations that are useful in assuring the public that there's nothing to the allegations. Not that it will ever be 100% effective, either. As the old saying goes, you can't reason someone out of something that he didn't reason himself into.

The people shouting the loudest about election fraud are, of course, not thinking at all. They're just saying that if their guy lost, it much be fraud. Those people cannot be reached at all. Beyond that, though, there's another group who hears the allegations, and can't come up with any explanation for the sketchy evidence, and sees the allegations dismissed, and begins to think maybe there's something to it.

People who come here are more likely to have investigated some sort of conspiracy theories before, and see all of the tell-tale signs of a CT in the "evidence" of election fraud today. However, most people have never done that. A little bit of official word demonstrating why the apparently suspicious activity has a perfectly innocent explanation, or that the effect is so tiny the suspicious ballots could not have changed anything, would go a long way toward convincing the ones on the fence about whether they think there might be election fraud.

For example, I just saw a video of a group of yahoos in our state capital of Lansing, Michigan, chanting "Dead People Voted!" So, they are sure that lots of dead people voted and they probably think Michigan was stolen, or at least that the evil Democrats did the same thing in Georgia and stole that one. Maybe they saw the video, posted on this forum from a tweet, showing what appeared to be evidence that a vote was received from a 120 year old woman in Jackson County. Well, I saw that video, and I cannot come up with a convincing explanation of how that came to pass. I'm sure lots of other people saw that video, too, and some, failing to come up with a non-fraudulent explanation, are sure that means it proves vote fraud.

So, I would like someone to look into what happened there. I don't mean a million dollar investigation. I just mean that I think it would be worth the effort if someone in the Jackson County Clerk's office checked out whether the video is really legitimate, whether the woman in question really represents a woman, long since passed away, but who is still on the voter rolls, but who nevertheless recorded a vote. I'm guessing not, but I don't know the explanation of how that might have come to pass any other way.

It just helps to reassure people. If you can show them that one or two of the "proof of voter fraud" videos that they have seen on youtube are not legitimate, they might think that there's probably good explanations for the others, too. If you ignore all of them, and just say, "There's no evidence.", the people might think that you are just ignoring the evidence.

I agree about the maintenance thing. But it's basically for us just see there's no there there. I don't think you'll convince this gal from Az.

CBC YT @ 0:20

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

put the comments on "most recent". Very funny!

ETA: Just for more laughs. Here's Giuliani's presser form the Four Seasons Total Landscaping from Skynews.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

eerok · 8th November 2020, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by Tero

some satire on that topic:

http://karireport.blogspot.com/2020/...0-863-097.html

This is what Trump wants, though, except he wants the recount to take four years, then his term can start, and then he gets a do-over for the Russia Hoax, which makes him president until 2032.

acbytesla · 8th November 2020, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

I think there's a certain amount of what you might call "maintenance" type investigations that are useful in assuring the public that there's nothing to the allegations. Not that it will ever be 100% effective, either. As the old saying goes, you can't reason someone out of something that he didn't reason himself into.

The people shouting the loudest about election fraud are, of course, not thinking at all. They're just saying that if their guy lost, it much be fraud. Those people cannot be reached at all. Beyond that, though, there's another group who hears the allegations, and can't come up with any explanation for the sketchy evidence, and sees the allegations dismissed, and begins to think maybe there's something to it.

People who come here are more likely to have investigated some sort of conspiracy theories before, and see all of the tell-tale signs of a CT in the "evidence" of election fraud today. However, most people have never done that. A little bit of official word demonstrating why the apparently suspicious activity has a perfectly innocent explanation, or that the effect is so tiny the suspicious ballots could not have changed anything, would go a long way toward convincing the ones on the fence about whether they think there might be election fraud.

For example, I just saw a video of a group of yahoos in our state capital of Lansing, Michigan, chanting "Dead People Voted!" So, they are sure that lots of dead people voted and they probably think Michigan was stolen, or at least that the evil Democrats did the same thing in Georgia and stole that one. Maybe they saw the video, posted on this forum from a tweet, showing what appeared to be evidence that a vote was received from a 120 year old woman in Jackson County. Well, I saw that video, and I cannot come up with a convincing explanation of how that came to pass. I'm sure lots of other people saw that video, too, and some, failing to come up with a non-fraudulent explanation, are sure that means it proves vote fraud.

So, I would like someone to look into what happened there. I don't mean a million dollar investigation. I just mean that I think it would be worth the effort if someone in the Jackson County Clerk's office checked out whether the video is really legitimate, whether the woman in question really represents a woman, long since passed away, but who is still on the voter rolls, but who nevertheless recorded a vote. I'm guessing not, but I don't know the explanation of how that might have come to pass any other way.

It just helps to reassure people. If you can show them that one or two of the "proof of voter fraud" videos that they have seen on youtube are not legitimate, they might think that there's probably good explanations for the others, too. If you ignore all of them, and just say, "There's no evidence.", the people might think that you are just ignoring the evidence.

ETA: Newt Gingrich is running around talking about vote fraud, and citing an example from the Franken-Coleman recount about an envelope full of ballots that magically appeared to put the Democrat, Franken, over the top. Well, I know exactly the envelope he's talking about, and why the overwhelming evidence is that it was a perfectly legitimate envelope full of real votes, that should have been, and was, counted. However, I follow this sort of thing a lot more closely than most. If you can find the most widespread allegations you can find, and put together a report detailing the reasons why this is almost certainly not voter fraud, it could make a difference in the mind of some of the protestors. Not all, of course. Some are hopeless, but some are reachable.

It's funny. I watched a report today about Alabama ballots being delivered to a residence in Texas. An immediate thought is that something nefarious going on. Maybe with the USPS perhaps? But a cursory examination with an open mind suggest that while something strange did happen, two ballots being misdelivered is not persuasive evidence of anything corrupt.

Bob001 · 8th November 2020, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

Is this covered by freedom of speech in US ? It's not here. This would 2 years in prison, possibly parole, depending on context.

You can say pretty much what you want, as long as you don't act on it or incite others to act. But a public official who says stuff like that can't keep his job.

Another link (that I can't find again) said this guy is the "chief" of a two-person department. One thing that's weird about the U.S. is that there are as many as 18,000 (nobody seems to know exactly how many) individual police and sheriff's departments, with their own standards for hiring, training and supervision. Most countries have national or regional police forces; our departments range from the NYPD and the LAPD to Officer Oppie and his big dog.

shemp · 8th November 2020, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by eerok

This is what Trump wants, though, except he wants the recount to take four years, then his term can start, and then he gets a do-over for the Russia Hoax, which makes him president until 2032.

I have a better idea. Chuck him into a dungeon, and forget about him.

acbytesla · 8th November 2020, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by Bob001

You can say pretty much what you want, as long as you don't act on it or incite others to act. But a public official who says stuff like that can't keep his job.

You could justifiably argue he was inciting others to act. This police officer posted "Death to Democrats" and "don't leave any survivors".

eerok · 8th November 2020, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by shemp

I have a better idea. Chuck him into a dungeon, and forget about him.

Oh, there's lots of better ideas, and a dungeon is a start.

Norman Alexander · 8th November 2020, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by shemp

I have a better idea. Chuck him into a dungeon, and forget about him.

Edgar Allan Poe had the right idea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cask_of_Amontillado

eerok · 8th November 2020, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Edgar Allan Poe had the right idea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cask_of_Amontillado

Conveniently, Trump is always eager for more whine.

Meadmaker · 8th November 2020, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

Is this covered by freedom of speech in US ? It's not here. This would 2 years in prison, possibly parole, depending on context.

No it isn't. The issue is getting a conviction.

What he said consisted of cliches and stock language. "Take no prisoners. Leave no survivors" sounds like some sort of role playing, hyperbolic type speech, not meant to be taken seriously.

In order to get a conviction, you have to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that his words represented a credible and deliberate incitement to violence. Realistically, they probably did not. I doubt that guy actually wanted anyone to pick up a gun and shoot someone.

On the other hand, to get him fired, all you have to do is decide that no good can come of it, that it showed very poor judgement, and that some moron out there in dumbassland might actually take you seriously, and that by making a remark like that, you made the city look bad. (Or county, or state, or wherever the guy worked for.)

Norman Alexander · 8th November 2020, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by eerok

Conveniently, Trump is always eager for more whine.

Da boom TISH!

Jim_MDP · 8th November 2020, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by trustbutverify

Get those traders back in here! Turn those machines back on!

Sorry Mr. Duke... margin call.

trustbutverify · 8th November 2020, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by shemp

Unlike your country, we're not a communist country.

Seriously, it's not illegal here, although the Secret Service might want to have a chat with him to determine if he's made a credible threat. But the First Amendment only protects your right to free speech; it does not protect him from the decisions of his employer, who has a legal right to "request" his resignation.

There has to be a point where incitement to harassment, violence and murder count for something in a rational society. This kind of filth can't be tolerated forever.

eerok · 8th November 2020, 09:09 PM

Here's some more schadenfreude for those with a stomach for it.

TRUMP SUPPORTERS COMPILATION [/r/PublicFreakout]

trustbutverify · 8th November 2020, 09:11 PM

There have been fireworks going off all day in my neighborhood since it became official. Church bells have been ringing in several European cities.

Safe-Keeper · 8th November 2020, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by eerok

Here's some more schadenfreude for those with a stomach for it.

TRUMP SUPPORTERS COMPILATION [/r/PublicFreakout]

Wait, those red hats look familiar. Aren't these the same people who made fun of us for being shocked and horrified when Trump won? Because I swear these are the same red hat crowd that made fun of us for being shocked and horrified. I swear it's the same facist red hat crowd. Is there more than one facist red hat crowd?

eta It's not a straight up whataboutism, though. There's a difference. We were horrified that a corrupt, incompetent, racist, misogynist, divisive, authoritarian supporter of violent extremism won. They are horrified that their corrupt, incompetent, racist, misogynist, divisive, authoritarian supporter of violent extremism lost.

Skeptic Tank · 8th November 2020, 09:13 PM

I'm sure the consensus in this thread (haven't been keeping up with it) is that the claims of election tampering / fraud, etc. are overblown, stuff that always happens, not enough to change the outcome, outright lies, rumor, speculation, whatever.

That is what I'd expect folks here to think.

I personally have seen enough evidence going around to put us well beyond the point of justifying a careful, deliberate look and recount in specific states.

There are some serious abnormalities.

When it all gets hashed out, will it be enough to overturn the result as it stands now? Maybe, maybe not. I would say the odds are probably against Trump here.

So why did I make the renewed declaration and the avatar bet, then? Because I find doubling down / long shots / die hard mentality to be appealing and worthy of subscription.

Safe-Keeper · 8th November 2020, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by trustbutverify

There have been fireworks going off all day in my neighborhood since it became official. Church bells have been ringing in several European cities.

To be fair, in England they were (mostly) for bonfire night.

trustbutverify · 8th November 2020, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

To be fair, in England they were (mostly) for bonfire night.

Wasn't that on Thursday?

eerok · 8th November 2020, 09:28 PM