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Tags donald trump , political speculation

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Old 18th November 2016, 02:53 PM   #921
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
And since I wasn't one of those <snipped the insults>
You're correct. You personally have not included the non-Trump voters in with the entirety of Trump voters that you have deemed to all be either bigots or supporters of bigotry.

Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Although I can understand their point, especially in states where that may have made a difference between electing Clinton and electing Trump. Not saying it's right, but I understand it. Have you tried understanding their point of view, or just dismissed them because you hate all Clinton supporters.
Understanding their point of view that anyone who didn't vote for their person is a bigot or is accepting of bigotry? Try as I might, and just can't get behind such blatantly divisive points of view. Vilification isn't really my thing.

Verbal sparring aside, yes, of course I understand the underlying worry and concern. But worry about what might happen in the future is not a justification for prejudice against an entire group of people, and indiscriminately slathering derision on all of them regardless of their actual behaviors and actions.
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Old 18th November 2016, 02:59 PM   #922
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
I thought it was Hillary who was going to pay off kids' college debt? Now we find out Trump is a closet liberal after all.
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Old 18th November 2016, 03:10 PM   #923
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
I so apologize for frightfully offending people by rearranging letters in an acronym.
I do believe that you were simply asked a perfectly valid question. Perhaps you should respond in kind?
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Old 18th November 2016, 03:11 PM   #924
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
I so apologize for frightfully offending people by rearranging letters in an acronym. Perhaps if you can point me to the appropriate standards agency documentation on the proper ordering of the letters I can be more politically-correct in the future.
</sarcasm> - tagged for the irony-impaired.


Do you all really not have anything better to whinge about?
Hey, no offense intended, honest!

I was legitimately wondering whether the ordering had changed.

Sorry.
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Old 18th November 2016, 03:15 PM   #925
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
It depends on what sort of bigotry.

Anti-mulsim bigots? Trump supporters. Anti-black bigots? Trump supporters. Anti-gay bigots? Trump supporters, which is kind of odd in a way, since Trump seems at worst gay-neutral, but still, Trump supporters.

Anti-Christian bigots?

Or are we denying those exist?
I am anti- xtian to the extent they attempt to force their belief system on anyone not them. I'm fine with them choosing to follow it, I am not remotely fond of them forcing it on anyone. Same for any other groups with hopefully obvious exceptions (active pedophiles and animal rapers and general repists are on my naughty list - which means their lives do not matter, nor do their deaths as far as I am concerned.
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Old 18th November 2016, 03:25 PM   #926
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Oh yes, I see, you draw a really huge moral distinction between "bigots" and "ignorantly supportive of bigots". Go on then.

The fact that you refuse to see the difference between those is very telling, and speaks to the same fanaticism and demonization that you are so happy to accuse others of.

Would you rather I said that they were knowingly supportive of bigots? Because that's the only other serious option I can see, given Trump's bragging of his own bigotry. Seriously, this is a guy who insisted quite loudly and publicly that the judge on his Trump University case could not possibly be impartial because he was of Mexican heritage. Every time he opened his mouth, bigoted crap came out.

Anyone who didn't know that was what they were supporting was either 1) ignorantly not paying attention, 2) senile, or 3) insane.

As it stands, people who supported him either supported his bigotry, or considered his bigotry less of a problem than their pet cause (abortion, mainly, or a desperate pipe-dream desire to return to the past). There is no way anyone listening to Trump could not be aware of how much of a bigot he is. The cognitive dissonance there is staggering.
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Old 18th November 2016, 03:27 PM   #927
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I wasn't whinging. I honestly can't keep the order straight.

I'm honestly unable to discern why in the name of all that's green any fuzzy anyone could possibly think it would matter. Seriously, it's mind-boggling.
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Old 18th November 2016, 03:32 PM   #928
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Understanding their point of view that anyone who didn't vote for their person is a bigot or is accepting of bigotry? Try as I might, and just can't get behind such blatantly divisive points of view. Vilification isn't really my thing.

Since when is speaking a clear and obvious truth vilification. Vilification requires falsehoods, like your previous characterizations of my and other people's positions. Really, there aren;t enough exploding irony meters for that.

Quote:
Verbal sparring aside, yes, of course I understand the underlying worry and concern. But worry about what might happen in the future is not a justification for prejudice against an entire group of people, and indiscriminately slathering derision on all of them regardless of their actual behaviors and actions.

You're kidding right? Their actions in electing an avowed and unrepentant bigot are what is getting them tarred as supporters of an avowed and unrepentant bigot. I fail to see how that's even controversial.

I'm not surprised you ignored it, but I'm surprised others failed to notice the fact that one of the largest, if not the largest, voting bloc in Trump's camp was white evangelical Christians, who voted for him in record numbers. They comprised somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 of his votes. Is that something you'd care to address?
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Old 18th November 2016, 03:33 PM   #929
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I was legitimately wondering whether the ordering had changed.

Changed from what, and decided by who? I'm seriously confused by this, since I'm not aware that there was any mandatory and enforceable order to the acronym.

Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I do believe that you were simply asked a perfectly valid question. Perhaps you should respond in kind?

How is the question in any way valid? What does the arrangement of the letters matter? Or are you just trolling at this point. If so, well done!
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When you say that fascists should only be defeated through debate, what you're really saying is that the marginalized and vulnerable should have to endlessly argue for their right to exist; and at no point should they ever be fully accepted, and the debate considered won.

Last edited by luchog; 18th November 2016 at 03:36 PM.
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Old 18th November 2016, 03:35 PM   #930
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duplicate
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When you say that fascists should only be defeated through debate, what you're really saying is that the marginalized and vulnerable should have to endlessly argue for their right to exist; and at no point should they ever be fully accepted, and the debate considered won.
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Old 18th November 2016, 03:48 PM   #931
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
How is the question in any way valid? What does the arrangement of the letters matter? Or are you just trolling at this point. If so, well done!
The poster was simply wondering why the order of the letters was different in your usage from the one we usually see (LGBTQ). I wondered that as well, and so did EC. You responded to an honest question by sneering. Simply answering that this is the order you're used to would've been enough, but instead you decided to be confrontational for no reason. And now that I told you, you decided to be confrontational with me as well. Again with no reason whatsoever, and throwing an accusation of trolling on top of that. And why? Because I simply pointed out that the question was harmless and probably honest.

I think you should take a step back and take a deep breath because now you're acting like a jerk to everybody.
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Old 18th November 2016, 04:24 PM   #932
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I didn't mean to suggest that Twitter users are deplorable (they are), but just to point out that reposting a 140 character tweet is not conducive to conversation.
Welcome to my world. Snacks are in the kitchen.
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Old 18th November 2016, 06:56 PM   #933
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So the president elect's daughter, who also runs his business empire, is interviewing potential cabinet members.

Quote:
Ivanka Trump made a surprise visit to Success Academy Harlem 1 charter school Friday morning, meeting with its CEO Eva Moskowitz.

Trump was given a tour of the school around 9 a.m., a day after Moskowitz quashed suspicion that President-elect Donald Trump would tap her to head the Department of Education in his cabinet.
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Old 18th November 2016, 06:58 PM   #934
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If this keeps up, I expect CNN to announce that Trump has nominated the ghost of Joseph Goebbels for the department of education.
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Old 18th November 2016, 07:38 PM   #935
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
If this keeps up, I expect CNN to announce that Trump has nominated the ghost of Joseph Goebbels for the department of education.
I am sure he would love to, but I do not think he realizes he would wind up bottoming for Joe , not the other way round!!!!!!!
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Old 18th November 2016, 08:36 PM   #936
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
If this keeps up, I expect CNN to announce that Trump has nominated the ghost of Joseph Goebbels for the department of education.
Alex Jones for Secretary of Labor.
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Old 18th November 2016, 08:40 PM   #937
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Alex Jones for Secretary of Labor.
Homeland Security would be a better fit for him.
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Old 18th November 2016, 08:43 PM   #938
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Trump hasn't even been sworn in yet, and he's already doing a HORRIBLE job.

Why can't he pick outsiders that aren't racists and nutcases?
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Old 18th November 2016, 09:10 PM   #939
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Trump hasn't even been sworn in yet, and he's already doing a HORRIBLE job.

Why can't he pick outsiders that aren't racists and nutcases?
Surely you are joking there. That has always been his intent. He is and always has been racist and he is clearly a nut case. Like most he likes being among his equals. That way they can be sure they won't give away their circle-jerk time!!!
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Old 18th November 2016, 10:42 PM   #940
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Alex Jones for Secretary of Labor.
Alex Jones will head NASA. This will allow him to find the truth about the Moon landing hoax.
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Old 18th November 2016, 10:48 PM   #941
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Trump hasn't even been sworn in yet, and he's already doing a HORRIBLE job.

Why can't he pick outsiders that aren't racists and nutcases?
The Senate confirmation hearings for Trump's nominations should be interesting.
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Old 18th November 2016, 11:29 PM   #942
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Trump hasn't even been sworn in yet, and he's already doing a HORRIBLE job.

Why can't he pick outsiders that aren't racists and nutcases?
You know why.
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Old 18th November 2016, 11:33 PM   #943
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
If this keeps up, I expect CNN to announce that Trump has nominated the ghost of Joseph Goebbels for the department of education.
This is going to get worse before it gets... worser.
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Old 18th November 2016, 11:44 PM   #944
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Alex Jones for Secretary of Labor.
Originally Posted by TellyKNeasuss View Post
Homeland Security would be a better fit for him.
Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
Alex Jones will head NASA. This will allow him to find the truth about the Moon landing hoax.
Guys.

Education Also comes to mind.

"Let's teach kids free association! That will make them free thinkers. Naturally, given the budgets we can expect Congress to give the Education department, it will be free of cost. Do you really believe this is all a coincidence? Hey, I'm just asking questions."

A good non-cabinet post for him would be Press Secretary.

I would enthusiastically start watching daily briefings. I would schedule my life around them, in fact.
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Old 19th November 2016, 04:25 AM   #945
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Trump hasn't even been sworn in yet, and he's already doing a HORRIBLE job.
Well, maybe those protests aren't pointless after all.
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Old 19th November 2016, 04:30 AM   #946
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Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
The Senate confirmation hearings for Trump's nominations should be interesting.
Why ? What makes you think that the GOP will do what they've done so far - fall in lock step with Trump regardless of what they may have claimed about him, his policies and his people in the past ?
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Old 19th November 2016, 06:32 AM   #947
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Changed from what, and decided by who? I'm seriously confused by this, since I'm not aware that there was any mandatory and enforceable order to the acronym.
I was asking about mere conventions. I've no idea why you react as if this is a personal attack. It wasn't intended as such.
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Old 19th November 2016, 06:36 AM   #948
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Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
The Senate confirmation hearings for Trump's nominations should be interesting.
Think so? I afraid that they will be a cakewalk. I think the Republican congress will defer to Trump to an embarrassing extent.

I hope I'm completely wrong and that I've underestimated the Republicans. Honestly, until this year, there was nothing wrong with being a Republican. I disagreed with them on many issues, but they're decent folk, by and large.

Trump, however, is not decent or competent folk.
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Old 19th November 2016, 06:58 AM   #949
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Think so? I afraid that they will be a cakewalk. I think the Republican congress will defer to Trump to an embarrassing extent.
Democrats will ask a lot of questions designed to make the nominees look bad, partly by highlighting unpopular positions the nominees have taken, but mostly by dredging up old, out of context, quotes that sound bad.

Republicans will ask a lot of softball questions designed to make the nominee look good, and to give an opportunity to say platitudes that might make good sound bites.

Then they will vote, and the nominee will be confirmed. Most will be confirmed by wide margins. Democrats will pick one or two for symbolic opposition, and those will be confirmed by a mostly party line vote.
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Old 19th November 2016, 07:29 AM   #950
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Buying his way out of trouble yet again. I wonder where the $25m came from? Trump Foundation?
I bet he figured he will gain way, way more $$$ during his presidency, so he just paid to get it out of the way.

Remember, this is conman during ongoing biggest con in history of mankind. This is no hyperbole. Conman as POTUS - can you imagine bigger con? I can't.
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Old 19th November 2016, 07:32 AM   #951
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Originally Posted by Mader Levap View Post
I bet he figured he will gain way, way more $$$ during his presidency, so he just paid to get it out of the way.

Remember, this is conman during ongoing biggest con in history of mankind. This is no hyperbole. Conman as POTUS - can you imagine bigger con? I can't.
The President elect will lie to us for years while picking fights on twitter and telling/showing his children which stocks to buy. Be prepared.
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Old 19th November 2016, 11:29 AM   #952
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A bit of a different perspective on the issue:

‘White Working Class’ Narrative Is Nothing but a Racist Dog Whistle

Excerpt:
Quote:
Any strategy that is empathetic toward racism—no matter how tattered and jobless and broke it may be—is one that is dangerous for black people in this country. And any politician or party that encourages black people to “seek common ground” with a poor man’s white supremacy while we’re swinging from the economic nooses around our necks is dangerous, too.

Gotta say, I agree with just about all of this.
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Old 19th November 2016, 11:34 AM   #953
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Guys.
A good non-cabinet post for him would be Press Secretary.

I would enthusiastically start watching daily briefings. I would schedule my life around them, in fact.
that would be amazing. there'd be the occasional briefing he'd do shirtless, for no particular reason...
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Old 19th November 2016, 11:42 AM   #954
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Anyone seen his latest tweets, he just exudes Presidentiality. I saw this on the BBC and thought you should see it:

Trump locks horns with Hamilton musical cast over Pence booing - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38039286
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Old 19th November 2016, 11:44 AM   #955
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
The President elect will lie to us for years while picking fights on twitter and telling/showing his children which stocks to buy. Be prepared.
Don't be silly, a President having twitter fights?

I saw this on the BBC and thought you should see it:

Trump locks horns with Hamilton musical cast over Pence booing - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38039286
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Old 19th November 2016, 11:48 AM   #956
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Democrats will ask a lot of questions designed to make the nominees look bad, partly by highlighting unpopular positions the nominees have taken, but mostly by dredging up old, out of context, quotes that sound bad.

Republicans will ask a lot of softball questions designed to make the nominee look good, and to give an opportunity to say platitudes that might make good sound bites.

Then they will vote, and the nominee will be confirmed. Most will be confirmed by wide margins. Democrats will pick one or two for symbolic opposition, and those will be confirmed by a mostly party line vote.
I'm wondering if they will make changes to the Senate rules on cloture as the Democrats attempted last time around (on non-SCOTUS confirmations). This is often referred to as the "nuclear option" of changing Senate rules by simple majority vote on the first day of the session.
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Old 19th November 2016, 11:52 AM   #957
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
A bit of a different perspective on the issue:

‘White Working Class’ Narrative Is Nothing but a Racist Dog Whistle

Excerpt:



Gotta say, I agree with just about all of this.
Can it be employed in a way that acts as a shield to launch racist policies from? Yes.

But not every utterance of "things are tough all over" is necessarily racist.

There are people with no income (outside of government support) who do not show up on the most frequently-cited unemployment figures.

There has been a spike in cases of depression as well as suicide rates.

Opiate/heroine/meth addiction rates are on the rise.

Is it 'racist' to acknowledge these things and ponder their significance?

The whole article is a series of repeatedly building and immolating the same straw-man over and over again. It declares that absolutely no reason exists (despite referencing numerous valid reasons, then dismissing them) to be concerned for one's own well-being except as a form of racial supremacy.

Self preservation overrides empathy. The desire to continue existing tends to be rather powerful that way.

What it fails to acknowledge, however, is that self preservation can also override bigotry.

ETA: I went to 6 cities during Occupy to do livestream coverage and other kinds of citizen journalism. The attitudes that are dominating the reaction to this election are the same ones I witnessed kill that movement. The overriding theme was "powerful interests are harming all of us." After a while, the "jockeying for social mindspace" began. Every time someone discussed their own particular struggles resulting from the behavior of abusive and corrupt institutions, objections were made that such discussion was dismissive of someone else's concerns. Arguments ensued over who's plight should be ranked higher. It eventually escalated to direct character assassinations of racism, classism, sexism, ageism, ableism, and every other 'ism' imaginable.

Last edited by Delphic Oracle; 19th November 2016 at 01:02 PM.
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Old 19th November 2016, 03:00 PM   #958
Stacko
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Donald poised to violate Constitution his first day in office, George W. Bush’s ethics lawyer*says

Quote:
“Why wouldn’t I stay at his hotel blocks from the White House, so I can tell the new president, ‘I love your new hotel!’” said one diplomat from an Asian nation. “Isn’t it rude to come to his city and say, ‘I am staying at your competitor?’”

The incoming president, in other words, is actively soliciting business from agents of foreign governments. Many of these agents, in turn, said that they will accept the president-elect’s offer to do business because they want to win favor with the new leader of the United States.

...

The diplomats’ efforts in seek Trump’s favor by staying in his hotel “looks like a gift,” Painter told ThinkProgress in an email, and thus is the very kind of favor the Constitution seeks to prevent.

...

Painter responded that “the only good answer,” for the president-elect “is to sell the hotel or give it to his kids (and pay the gift tax) by January 20.”

...

Moreover, while it is conceivable that a rival hotel may have standing to sue Trump for taking away its business with foreign diplomats in violation of the Constitution, it’s far from clear that any hotel business will want to risk a feud with the notoriously vindictive president-elect.

There is, however, at least one remedy under the Constitution for such a violation of the public trust by the president: impeachment.
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Old 19th November 2016, 10:14 PM   #959
luchog
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Is it 'racist' to acknowledge these things and ponder their significance?

That's not what's being done.

Quote:
What it fails to acknowledge, however, is that self preservation can also override bigotry.

It can, but very rarely ever does. This election is quite a clear example of bigotry and ignorance badly overriding the voters' clearly atrophied sense of self-preservation.
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When you say that fascists should only be defeated through debate, what you're really saying is that the marginalized and vulnerable should have to endlessly argue for their right to exist; and at no point should they ever be fully accepted, and the debate considered won.
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Old 19th November 2016, 10:35 PM   #960
Samson
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
That's not what's being done.




It can, but very rarely ever does. This election is quite a clear example of bigotry and ignorance badly overriding the voters' clearly atrophied sense of self-preservation.
A headline in New Zealand probably not noticed in your going to be great again country.

Trump apocalypse - 13,000 Americans register interest in moving to NZ

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11750088

There is overwhelming embarrassment registered by American tourists in New Zealand at the process, and the man, Trump.

My view is that this proposed exodus is rats deserting a ship. Why should they enjoy choice like this? Stay and engage in the process, along with those who don't enjoy privilege which is very seldom truly earned.

Disclosure of interest, I would infinitely prefer American immigrants to Chinese with their corrupt money and hegemonistic intentions and a profound disinterest in our culture. (or sad lack )

Last edited by Samson; 19th November 2016 at 10:36 PM.
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