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Old 15th December 2016, 05:51 AM   #1041
Fast Eddie B
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Maybe "technicality" isn't the right word, but I think you get the point...
Nice explanation/clarification.

Now we're back to 100% agreement!

Enjoy it while you can!

Last edited by Fast Eddie B; 15th December 2016 at 05:53 AM.
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Old 15th December 2016, 05:54 AM   #1042
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Yeah, the push to have the EC override the vote actually worries me. I believe there would be substantial civil unrest, and potentially violence, if the EC did so.
Exactly which is why we need to get rid of it. It can no longer do the purpose it was intended for so what purpose does it serve?
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Old 15th December 2016, 06:01 AM   #1043
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Yeah, the push to have the EC override the vote actually worries me. I believe there would be substantial civil unrest, and potentially violence, if the EC did so.
I think there are enough calm people like us that can rationally explain the rules to any agitated to defuse any tension.

Last edited by BobTheCoward; 15th December 2016 at 06:04 AM.
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Old 16th December 2016, 03:23 PM   #1044
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Exactly which is why we need to get rid of it. It can no longer do the purpose it was intended for so what purpose does it serve?
It has ill served us for a very long time. As have the state reaping undeserved power and influence from it. I am for them withering since they are the heart of the religion they makes so much trouble here.


I know good Christians and like them, but the conservative ones who want to rule like Sharia - and I mean the xtians who want the US to be that way -- are useless and evil.
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Old 16th December 2016, 03:40 PM   #1045
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Yeah, the push to have the EC override the vote actually worries me. I believe there would be substantial civil unrest, and potentially violence, if the EC did so.

Override what vote? Clinton won the popular vote by over 2 million votes; the largest margin in history for any candidate who did not win the EC vote. Is that the vote you're talking about overriding? Because that is what would happen if the EC votes to elect Trump.

But the EC has yet to vote, so that may change. A slim chance, but far from an impossible one.
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Old 16th December 2016, 04:06 PM   #1046
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Maybe "technicality" isn't the right word, but I think you get the point.

He barely won the election. In fact, he didn't even have as many votes as his opponent. He didn't have a majority of votes. His electoral margin was quite low compared to the historical average.

So I was calling his Electoral College victory a "technicality" in the sense that it follows the letter of the law, but when you think about winning elections, you usually think about getting more votes than the other guy. Trump didn't. Maybe there's a better word than "technicality".

The real point is that it is in no sense a landslide, but Trump is calling it a landslide. As with so many Trumpisms, I have to wonder. Is it marketing/propaganda/lying, or is he delusional and thinks he really got a mandate from the American people?
Trump carried 30 out of 50 states, winning the popular vote in each of them. And even though our election system is heavily weighted in favor of the more populous states, and even though some the most populous states went for Hillary, she couldn't win the popular votes in enough states to get elected.
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Old 16th December 2016, 04:09 PM   #1047
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Exactly which is why we need to get rid of it. It can no longer do the purpose it was intended for so what purpose does it serve?
Then we should get rid of it before the next election, not after the previous one. It's not right to change the rules after the game has been scored.
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Old 16th December 2016, 04:44 PM   #1048
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Trump carried 30 out of 50 states, winning the popular vote in each of them. And even though our election system is heavily weighted in favor of the more populous states, and even though some the most populous states went for Hillary, she couldn't win the popular votes in enough states to get elected.
Yes and he won lots of counties and blah, blah, blah.

1. It was not, by any definition, a landslide.
2. Donald Trump says it was a landslide.

Are Trump's statements marketing/propaganda/lies, or are they delusions? The jury is still out.
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Old 16th December 2016, 04:48 PM   #1049
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Trump carried 30 out of 50 states, winning the popular vote in each of them. And even though our election system is heavily weighted in favor of the more populous states, and even though some the most populous states went for Hillary, she couldn't win the popular votes in enough states to get elected.
In terms of each human being's weighted share of influence, it's the other way around, actually.

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Old 16th December 2016, 05:25 PM   #1050
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Trump carried 30 out of 50 states, winning the popular vote in each of them. And even though our election system is heavily weighted in favor of the more populous states, and even though some the most populous states went for Hillary, she couldn't win the popular votes in enough states to get elected.
But that's the problem with the EC system. Anything over what's needed to win a state's electoral votes are "wasted" because they don't have any effect. Clinton won heavily populated states by a wide margin, and those are the people not represented by the Boy King's win -- effectively disenfranchised by the undemocratic nature of the EC.

(ETA: This: "And even though our election system is heavily weighted in favor of the more populous states..." is simply backwards.)

Last edited by WilliamSeger; 16th December 2016 at 05:29 PM.
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Old 16th December 2016, 06:14 PM   #1051
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I'd like to think Trump won't be so bad. But I'm pretty sure he will be.
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Old 16th December 2016, 07:08 PM   #1052
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I've got one of his "Thank You" Rallies right now - Orlando - streaming in a window while I play some online chess.

Any forced optimism I was trying to nurture is really on its last legs.

Really.

Last edited by Fast Eddie B; 16th December 2016 at 07:10 PM.
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Old 16th December 2016, 07:36 PM   #1053
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
I've got one of his "Thank You" Rallies right now - Orlando - streaming in a window while I play some online chess.

Any forced optimism I was trying to nurture is really on its last legs.

Really.
This "thank you tour" kind of creeps me out.

Is there anything remotely like it in US history?

There have been a couple of kind of over the top coronation inauguration preparation things. I remember there was some sort of January 19th thing where Bill Clinton was on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial. I thought that was kind of creepy, but at least that was all part of stretching a ceremony into a two or three day party. That's not too bad.

Of course candidates, including sitting presidents running for reelection, hold rallies, and sometimes a president will go on a tour that includes things that are suspiciously like rallies when they are trying to push some sort of "centerpiece" legislation. They make big speeches to large halls, or hold a town hall with lots of press coverage, or something like that.

But, this sort of rally? I can't think of anything like it.

Well, if I thought real hard I might be able to come up with something a tiny little bit like it, but I don't think it would be a comforting thought.
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Old 16th December 2016, 08:13 PM   #1054
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I'd like to think Trump won't be so bad. But I'm pretty sure he will be.
Yes - he has already shown it!!!
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Old 16th December 2016, 08:14 PM   #1055
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and blown it. Just for some Putin rootin' as he bends over and takes it in the end!!!!!
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Old 17th December 2016, 01:13 AM   #1056
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
It has ill served us for a very long time. As have the states reaping undeserved power and influence from it. I am for them withering since they are the heart of the religion they makes so much trouble here.


I know good Christians and like them, but the conservative ones who want to rule like Sharia - and I mean the xtians who want the US to be that way -- are useless and evil.
Edited to fix state to states.
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Old 17th December 2016, 08:53 AM   #1057
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Then we should get rid of it before the next election, not after the previous one. It's not right to change the rules after the game has been scored.
That's one way to look at it.

Another is to say that we have an Electoral College. Of what purpose is it if not as a safeguard against extraordinary circumstances, such as when a foreign power interferes with our elections?
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Old 17th December 2016, 09:49 AM   #1058
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Well, if I thought real hard I might be able to come up with something a tiny little bit like it, but I don't think it would be a comforting thought.
Something like this?
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Old 17th December 2016, 10:49 AM   #1059
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The Boy King spent nearly a half-hour of his latest "**** You Tour" speech reliving election night, talking about himself in the third person by mocking the reporters' announcements of the results. A half-hour. Anyone who doesn't expect his Narcissistic Personality Disorder to be the defining characteristic of his administration is betting against heavy odds.
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Old 17th December 2016, 11:15 AM   #1060
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Some people noted that Trump's constant repetition was a form of hypnotism. So this bit from the victory rally is interesting:

Originally Posted by Donald J. Trump
"You people were vicious, violent, screaming, 'Where's the wall? We want the wall!' Screaming, 'Prison! Prison! Lock her up!' I mean you are going crazy. I mean, you were nasty and mean and vicious and you wanted to win, right? But now, you're mellow and you're cool and you're not nearly as vicious or violent, right? Because we won, right?"
Then again:
Originally Posted by Donald J. Trump
"Now you're laid back, you're cool, you're mellow, you're basking in the glory of victory ...
To which they responded, "Lock her up." Then someone threw an empty water bottle at a reporter.

The cadences here sound a bit like guided imagery - like he's trying to calm them down. Will he be able to? I didn't watch the rally so I don't know how these lines were delivered. I think of those people he's met with - Paul Ryan and Mitt Romney come to mind - who ended up gushing after talking to Trump. He's able to charm them into a pliant state, but it doesn't last forever. For example, I'm sure Romney is pretty much over it ...
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Old 17th December 2016, 12:33 PM   #1061
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
The Boy King spent nearly a half-hour of his latest "**** You Tour" speech reliving election night, talking about himself in the third person by mocking the reporters' announcements of the results. A half-hour. Anyone who doesn't expect his Narcissistic Personality Disorder to be the defining characteristic of his administration is betting against heavy odds.
I took note of that.

Bending over backwards, I was almost ready to forgive him all his words and actions leading up to the election, on the basis that it was all just tactics to achieve a specific goal.

But if that was the case, the goal has been achieved. It would seem to be time to shift gears, now that the dog has caught the car, so to speak.

But no. That half hour was nothing but bombastic and sarcastic boasting, to no real end - not even the "thank you" that the tour was supposed to be themed upon.

Like I said, quite disheartening.
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Old 17th December 2016, 08:58 PM   #1062
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
In terms of each human being's weighted share of influence, it's the other way around, actually.
It's supposed to be one person, one vote, not one acre, one vote.
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Old 18th December 2016, 09:40 PM   #1063
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And now there's the "We should tell China to keep the drone" tweet.

Words could not do justice to the stupidity of this idiot that 46% of the American people voted for.

ETA: And the scary thing is, he's not actually stupid, in the literal sense of the word. He has brains. He's just so incredibly childish.

He may indeed be a centrist, as the OP speculated about, and the US is so much bigger than one man, even if that one man is President, but still I wish that we had someone in power who actually paid attention to the consequences of ill conceived actions. If he is indeed a centrist it will be because he bounces around all over the place, so he has to spend some time in the center.
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Old 19th December 2016, 09:46 AM   #1064
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Some people noted that Trump's constant repetition was a form of hypnotism. So this bit from the victory rally is interesting:
It just shows how shocked Trump is that anyone believed what he was saying. They took his Lock Her Up and Drain the Swamp as if they meant anything, when they meant no more than the calls for Russia to hack the state department or second amendment supporters to kill clinton.
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Old 19th December 2016, 09:38 PM   #1065
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
It just shows how shocked Trump is that anyone believed what he was saying. They took his Lock Her Up and Drain the Swamp as if they meant anything, when they meant no more than the calls for Russia to hack the state department or second amendment supporters to kill clinton.
Trump even admitted to his supporters, during his victory tour, that the "lock her up" line was nothing but a campaign slogan.
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Old 20th December 2016, 04:07 AM   #1066
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Trump even admitted to his supporters, during his victory tour, that the "lock her up" line was nothing but a campaign slogan.
And Drain the Swamp. They are all the same, be it asking the russians to hack, calling for the arrest or murder of his opponent, fighting corruption and building the wall. They are thrown out initially and he will repeat them if they get a good response. He doesn't mean any of them any more than any of the others.
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Old 20th December 2016, 07:23 AM   #1067
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
The Boy King spent nearly a half-hour of his latest "**** You Tour" speech reliving election night, talking about himself in the third person by mocking the reporters' announcements of the results. A half-hour. Anyone who doesn't expect his Narcissistic Personality Disorder to be the defining characteristic of his administration is betting against heavy odds.
Aren't most all presidents like that. Our current president likes to use the word "I" an awful lot also.
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Old 20th December 2016, 07:28 AM   #1068
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
Aren't most all presidents like that. Our current president likes to use the word "I" an awful lot also.
No most presidents aren't.

Never noticed that Obama was using "I" an awful lot.
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Old 20th December 2016, 04:35 PM   #1069
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Words could not do justice to the stupidity of this idiot that 46% of the American people voted for.
No. 46% of the people who voted. Big difference.

Quote:
If he is indeed a centrist it will be because he bounces around all over the place, so he has to spend some time in the center.
"Centrists" don't pick a Cabinet full of neo-Nazis, science Deniers, and Big Business elites and Social Darwinists. Just sayin'...

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
It just shows how shocked Trump is that anyone believed what he was saying. They took his Lock Her Up and Drain the Swamp as if they meant anything, when they meant no more than the calls for Russia to hack the state department or second amendment supporters to kill clinton.
Words fail in describing how incredibly stupid a person must be to spend an entire adult lifetime using the techniques of advertising to not understand how powerful they are...
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Old 20th December 2016, 05:04 PM   #1070
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
now that the dog has caught the car
But the car ain't stopping, so the dog has 3 choices:-

1. Let go of the car, and be content with just barking at it.

2. Get in the car and be taken for a ride (to a place it doesn't want to go).

3. Keep hanging on and hope its doggy parts don't get scraped off on the road.

I'm hoping it chooses option 3...
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Old 20th December 2016, 06:30 PM   #1071
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
Aren't most all presidents like that. Our current president likes to use the word "I" an awful lot also.
If you didn't see the speech, you should try to find it and you'll see what I mean. No, this was the most unpresidential, undignified, excruciatingly long, pathetically self-aggrandizing "thank me" speech I have ever seen, guaranteed. NPD is not just having a big ego; he has needs that must be fullfilled, e.g. to be the center of attention and bask in the chanting adoration of the crowd. That's one reason why he's going to keep having rallies (although there is an obvious and more sinister reason).
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Old 31st December 2020, 12:14 AM   #1072
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Mycroft, you frankly owe the forum an apology for that OP.
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Old 31st December 2020, 12:24 AM   #1073
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Mycroft, you frankly owe the forum an apology for that OP.
An apology? Hell, he owes the forum his first born, the deed to his house, and his IRA.
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Old 31st December 2020, 12:30 AM   #1074
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The things we said to console ourselves. "Maybe it won't be so bad", the desperate rationalization of someone who knows they're in for something horrible.

I'm just incredibly grateful we didn't have to deal with another such shock in 2020. Thank heavens America voted him out.
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Old 31st December 2020, 12:36 AM   #1075
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To review:
Originally Posted by Mycroft
Maybe Trump will not be such a terrible president.
He used to be a Democrat, the Republican establishment fought against him, and just because he draws the racist vote doesn't mean he will be a racist president.

He may turn out to be a centrist who can get things done.
I don't think that calls for an apology, just a "my bad" or something equivalent.

Mycroft is around. He's bound to see we bumped the thread.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 31st December 2020 at 12:38 AM.
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Old 31st December 2020, 12:41 AM   #1076
The Great Zaganza
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I still got some of my limbs, soooo...

could have been worse?!?
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Old 31st December 2020, 12:49 AM   #1077
Elagabalus
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
An apology? Hell, he owes the forum his first born, the deed to his house, and his IRA.
Mycroft is actually Irish?!
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Old 31st December 2020, 12:55 AM   #1078
Elagabalus
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
The things we said to console ourselves. "Maybe it won't be so bad", the desperate rationalization of someone who knows they're in for something horrible.

I'm just incredibly grateful we didn't have to deal with another such shock in 2020. Thank heavens America voted him out.
Yes, tbf, I gave him (Trump) the benefit of the doubt for about half a day. And that was during the inauguration.


Also, at that point there wasn't a whole lot we could do about it.

Last edited by Elagabalus; 31st December 2020 at 12:59 AM.
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Old 31st December 2020, 03:02 AM   #1079
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Why, of all places on earth, would you move to New Zealand? Seriously, besides the fact that people speak English, the country is very developed and rich it's really like moving to the moon.

It's in the middle of nowhere and there's nothing interesting going on there at all.
Two good reasons...

Quote:
Might as well move to Europe where at least something interesting happens
Anything 'interesting' happening in Sweden right now?
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Old 31st December 2020, 08:37 AM   #1080
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I don't blame Mycroft for wishful thinking, even though it was painfully obvious that Trump was a train wreck in the making.

If you look at posts from 2016, I doubt there was anyone here more alarmed by Trump than me. And whaddya know, he was far worse than I imagined. Its hard not to be numbed at this point, but this has been a truly demented, surreal, four year nightmare, revealing Hilary's basket of deplorables as a significant understatement.
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