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Old 11th November 2019, 02:47 PM   #641
JeanTate
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Thanks Sol88.

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
no inconsistencies I can see.
So you agree that equation (44) implies that the giant intergalactic Birkeland currents which power the Sun should be easily visible?

Quote:

Interestingly if Birkeland currents thread the sky everywhere we look, there should be a perfect fog of microwaves.

LINK
Indeed.

Yet that is not what we see ...

Back to SAFIRE (a key topic of this thread): the absence of a visible giant intergalactic Birkeland current which power the Sun is thus inconsistent with the SAFIRE model, correct?

Last edited by JeanTate; 11th November 2019 at 02:53 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 11th November 2019, 03:02 PM   #642
Reality Check
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
no inconsistencies I can see. ....
Then you need to open your eyes, Sol88, read posts, what you write and what you cite !

You have just quoted that Birkeland currents "emit synchrotron radiation that includes radio, optical (ie. light), x-rays, and gamma rays."

According to you, "Interestingly if Birkeland currents thread the sky everywhere we look, there should be a perfect fog of " radio, optical (ie. light), x-rays, and gamma rays [including as you write microwaves].

But you forgot about the conditionals in your quote from Birkeland current
Quote:
Electrons moving along a Birkeland current may be accelerated by a plasma double layer. If the resulting electrons approach relativistic velocities (ie. the speed of light) they may subsequently produce a Bennett pinch, which in a magnetic field will spiral and emit synchrotron radiation that includes radio, optical (ie. light), x-rays, and gamma rays.

The only Birkeland currents ever detected in the wild were not detected by emitted synchrotron radiation. They were detected by placing a spacecraft inside the currents! Birkeland current
Quote:
Proof of Birkeland's theory of the aurora only came after a probe was sent into space. The crucial results were obtained from U.S. Navy satellite 1963-38C, launched in 1963 and carrying a magnetometer above the ionosphere. In 1966 Alfred Zmuda, J.H. Martin, and F.T.Heuring[16] analysed the satellite magnetometer results and reported their findings of magnetic disturbance in the aurora. In 1967 Alex Dessler and graduate student David Cummings wrote an article[17] arguing that Zmuda et al. had detected field-aligned currents. Alfvén subsequently acknowledged[18] that Dessler had "discovered the currents that Birkeland had predicted" and they should be called Birkeland-Dessler currents. 1967 is therefore taken as the date when Birkeland's theory was finally acknowledged to have been vindicated. In 1969 Milo Schield, Alex Dessler and John Freeman[19] used the name "Birkeland currents" for the first time. In 1970 Zmuda, Armstrong and Heuring wrote another paper[20] agreeing that their observations were compatible with field-aligned currents as suggested by Cummings and Dessler and by Boström.[15]
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Old 11th November 2019, 03:26 PM   #643
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Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
Back to SAFIRE (a key topic of this thread): the absence of a visible giant intergalactic Birkeland current which power the Sun is thus inconsistent with the SAFIRE model, correct?
A clarification: the electric sun does not have any intergalactic Birkeland currents. Sol88 cited Scott's paper. Scott wrote an irrelevant to the electric sun paper about Birkeland currents. The word "Sun" appears 5 times in the context of mainstream solar physics. Their incomplete page of commentary on the paper states that this is a fantasy about Birkeland currents "as they journey the 93 million miles from Sun to Earth" (Birkeland currents are at the Earth!).

P.S. That page includes more of the Thunderbolts delusions, e.g. "Birkeland Currents II: BCs and Dark Matter (2018)" and "Voyager I Data Confirms Electric Sun".

The electric sun is that the Sun is somehow powered by external interstellar electric currents from somewhere. The Thunderbolts cult sees Birkeland currents everywhere so it is possible that some of them have the fantasy that these interstellar electric currents are Birkeland currents.

Last edited by Reality Check; 11th November 2019 at 03:30 PM.
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Old 11th November 2019, 03:54 PM   #644
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An aside: Birkeland Currents and Dark Matter by Donald E. Scott (PDF) is Scott deriving a velocity profile of a “Force-Free,Field-Aligned Current” and applying this to a delusion that galaxies form along "cosmic Birkeland currents". Scott lies. His reference [8] is Astronomers find faint strings of galaxies inside empty space news article with no Birkeland currents. If this is Peratt's abandoned and easily seen to be wrong model of galaxy formation the Scott is still lying - that has pairs of Birkeland currents.

Scott refers to his previous paper with counter rotating currents and does not see how bad that makes this paper! He has these counter rotating currents causing two different counter-rotating populations of stars in NGC 4550. But of course Scott lies. These are not distinct volumes of counter-rotating stars. NGC 4550 has 2 intermingled populations of stars where "half the stars orbit clockwise, and half the stars orbit counterclockwise".

Scott cites Disentangling the stellar populations in the counter-rotating disc galaxy NGC 4550 which to a retired electrical engineer ignorant about astronomy (and Wikipedia!) would suggest physically separate bodies of stars.
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Old 11th November 2019, 04:13 PM   #645
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Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
Thanks Sol88.


So you agree that equation (44) implies that the giant intergalactic Birkeland currents which power the Sun should be easily visible?


Indeed.

Yet that is not what we see ...

Back to SAFIRE (a key topic of this thread): the absence of a visible giant intergalactic Birkeland current which power the Sun is thus inconsistent with the SAFIRE model, correct?
No, not at all.

We detect them visible yes just not to our limited range of the EM spectrum.


Local Chimney and Superbubbles

Quote:
The "Local Bubble" of low-density, hot
and ionized gas plasma, is actually part of a
tube-like chimney that extends through
the local region of the spiral disk
into the surrounding galactic halo,
and so may can act as a vent for the
energetic hot gas plasma produced by
supernovae (more).
I’ve made a couple corrections. Though the language is even for you, jean tate, simple.

Hot gas, plasma all the same thing.

Just like the Sun being a big ball of hot gas, so you can apply Gas Laws. The pressure using said laws must be tremendous in the centre of the sun, enough to produce Fusion.
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Old 11th November 2019, 04:19 PM   #646
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
Then you need to open your eyes, Sol88, read posts, what you write and what you cite !

You have just quoted that Birkeland currents "emit synchrotron radiation that includes radio, optical (ie. light), x-rays, and gamma rays."

According to you, "Interestingly if Birkeland currents thread the sky everywhere we look, there should be a perfect fog of " radio, optical (ie. light), x-rays, and gamma rays [including as you write microwaves].

But you forgot about the conditionals in your quote from Birkeland current



The only Birkeland currents ever detected in the wild were not detected by emitted synchrotron radiation. They were detected by placing a spacecraft inside the currents! Birkeland current
Oh, “They were detected by placing a spacecraft inside the currents!“

How many have we flown thru then outside of the solar system?

This goes for double layers and electric fields as well champ.


Mainstream are NOT looking for them, hence the ad hoc and surprise when something does not align with mainstreams MHD.

Cheers for the confirmation. Maybe jean tate can take something away from your post.

Doubt it though.

Can’t even agree hot gas in space is a plasma....
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Old 11th November 2019, 04:26 PM   #647
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Thumbs down The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed since 6 July 2009

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.

Sol88's usual insanity to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Local Chimney and Superbubbles
Quote:
The "Local Bubble" of low-density, hot and ionized gas, is actually part of a tube-like chimney that extends through the local region of the spiral disk into the surrounding galactic halo, and so may can act as a vent for the
energetic hot gas produced by supernovae (more).
The Local Bubble, etc. are nothing to so with Sol88's insane religious dogma about comets or the Sun.
Local Bubble
Quote:
The Local Bubble, or Local Cavity,[3] is a relative cavity in the interstellar medium (ISM) of the Orion Arm in the Milky Way. It contains among others, the Local Interstellar Cloud, which contains the Solar System, and the G-Cloud. It is at least 300 light years across and is defined by its neutral-hydrogen density of about 0.05 atoms/cm3, or approximately one tenth of the average for the ISM in the Milky Way (0.5 atoms/cm3), and one sixth that of the Local Interstellar Cloud (0.3 atoms/cm3).[dubious – discuss][4]

The exceptionally sparse matter, namely gas, of the Local Bubble is the result of supernovae that exploded within the past ten to twenty million years and remains in an excited state, emitting in the X-ray band.[5][6] It was once thought that the most likely candidate for the remains of this supernova was Geminga, a pulsar in the constellation Gemini. Later, however, it has been suggested that multiple supernovae in subgroup B1 of the Pleiades moving group were more likely responsible,[7] becoming a remnant supershell.[8]
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Old 11th November 2019, 04:28 PM   #648
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Just like the Sun being a big ball of hot gas, ...
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.

Sol88's usual insanity to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Sol88's usual insane lies about science - the Sun is a ball of plasma, plasma is partially ionized gas, gas laws apply and Astronomy 101 says the Sun is powered by fusion at its core.
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Old 11th November 2019, 04:34 PM   #649
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.

Sol88's usual insanity to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Sol88's usual insane lies about science.
The only Birkeland currents ever detected in the wild were not detected by emitted synchrotron radiation. They were detected by placing a spacecraft inside the currents! Birkeland current
Birkeland current: "Proof of Birkeland's theory of the aurora only came after a probe was sent into space. The crucial results were obtained from U.S. Navy satellite 1963-38C, launched in 1963 and carrying a magnetometer above the ionosphere".
We infer that aurora on other planets such as Jupiter will have associated Birkeland currents because the solar wind interacting with a planetary magnetic fields and a planetary ionosphere to product aurora on Earth is the only case that we have detected Birkeland currents.

Sol88's usual insane lies about double layers, electric fields, MHD, etc.

Sol88's insane lie that I confirmed any of Sol88's insane religious dogma. I confirmed Sol88's abysmal ignorance, in this case about Birkeland currents and basic English (the conditionals in what he quoted).

Sol88's usual insane lies about science.
A "hot" gas is not automatically a plasma. The "hot" gas emitted when I exhale is not a plasma ! A plasma is a partially ionized gas where it is the degree of ionization that is important. That ionization can be caused by heating a gas. The Sun is heated by its internal fusion to ~5700K at the photosphere . The photosphere is plasma! Textbook physics tells anyone with a brain that the temperature of the Sun increases with depth. The Sun is a ball of plasma!

Last edited by Reality Check; 11th November 2019 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 11th November 2019, 04:46 PM   #650
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
A clarification: the electric sun does not have any intergalactic Birkeland currents. Sol88 cited Scott's paper. Scott wrote an irrelevant to the electric sun paper about Birkeland currents. The word "Sun" appears 5 times in the context of mainstream solar physics. Their incomplete page of commentary on the paper states that this is a fantasy about Birkeland currents "as they journey the 93 million miles from Sun to Earth" (Birkeland currents are at the Earth!).

P.S. That page includes more of the Thunderbolts delusions, e.g. "Birkeland Currents II: BCs and Dark Matter (2018)" and "Voyager I Data Confirms Electric Sun".

The electric sun is that the Sun is somehow powered by external interstellar electric currents from somewhere. The Thunderbolts cult sees Birkeland currents everywhere so it is possible that some of them have the fantasy that these interstellar electric currents are Birkeland currents.
I think we should remain focused on the topic of this thread, SAFIRE.

Sol88 has provided links to SAFIRE, and my reading of what’s there is the same as what Sol88 has posted: the Sun is powered by a giant current (Birkeland? Intergalactic? SAFIRE isn’t so clear ...). And that’s consistent with SAFIRE materials, there is a metal rod attached to the globe, and accompanying text which says that this delivers power.
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Old 11th November 2019, 05:31 PM   #651
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Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
I think we should remain focused on the topic of this thread, SAFIRE.
That was the SAFIRE project web site (cited and discussed before but rather burred in the thread). Just from that page.
  • November 9-10: Attended what looks like a crank conference on "zero-point, magnetic, hydro, plasma, and cold fusion low-energy nuclear reactions."
  • Delusions of "energy production, transmutation of elements, and remediation of radioactive materials" in a plasma experiment.
  • "compare two theoretical models of the sun – gravitational and electrical" gives the certainty of lies by omission about mainstream solar physics at that conference, e.g. they will not mention that basic physics says that the Sun has to be internally powered or it collapses to a white dwarf .
  • Sceince by video rather than publishing results.
    However this fits them abandoning science to become another company trying to sell fake products.
  • "presentation at the Electric Universe UK 'Dynamic Earth' Conference, University of Bath, July 2019"
    A description with delusions, e.g. "Warm plasma nucleosynthesis is a primary component of Electric Sun models in which heavier elements are formed within the photosphere of stars, and not deep within their cores.".
    If the "warm plasma nucleosynthesis" nonsense is fusion that they have just fried the Earth with gamma radiation!
    If it is not then we have probably some type of "cold fusion" delusion.
  • Double layer delusions.
    Striations ins a plasma are not automatically double layers.
    No DL's possible in the physically and magnetically turbulent photosphere.
  • Another presentation at a crank conference (EU 2018).
  • Another presentation at a crank conference (EU 2017).
Yet more propaganda from the Thunderbolts cult on the insane SAFIRE project. (SAFIRE 2019 update video).
That conversation with Monty exposed that the already insane SAFIRE project is even more insane than collapsing the Sun to a white dwarf (a video looking at an discussion with Montgomery Childs)

Last edited by Reality Check; 11th November 2019 at 05:37 PM.
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Old 11th November 2019, 05:38 PM   #652
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
That was the SAFIRE project web site (cited and discussed before but rather burred in the thread). Just from that page.
  • November 9-10: Attended what looks like a crank conference on "zero-point, magnetic, hydro, plasma, and cold fusion low-energy nuclear reactions."
  • Delusions of "energy production, transmutation of elements, and remediation of radioactive materials" in a plasma experiment.
  • "compare two theoretical models of the sun – gravitational and electrical" gives the certainty of lies by omission about mainstream solar physics at that conference, e.g. they will not mention that basic physics says that the Sun has to be internally powered or it collapses to a white dwarf .
  • Sceince by video rather than publishing results.
    However this fits them abandoning science to become another company trying to sell fake products.
  • "presentation at the Electric Universe UK 'Dynamic Earth' Conference, University of Bath, July 2019"
    A description with delusions, e.g. "Warm plasma nucleosynthesis is a primary component of Electric Sun models in which heavier elements are formed within the photosphere of stars, and not deep within their cores.".
    If the "warm plasma nucleosynthesis" nonsense is fusion that they have just fried the Earth with gamma radiation!
    If it is not then we have probably some type of "cold fusion" delusion.
  • Double layer delusions.
    Striations ins a plasma are not automatically double layers.
    No DL's possible in the physically and magnetically turbulent photosphere.
  • Another presentation at a crank conference (EU 2018).
  • Another presentation at a crank conference (EU 2017).
Thanks RC.

The move to some kind of free energy scam is something I certainly did not see coming! And yes, if you are considering buying that (and whatever variant of an electric sun or comet), then I have a bridge for you!
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Old 11th November 2019, 05:59 PM   #653
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Free energy?

Far as I could tell they using SAFIRE to produce neutrons to render radioactive material harmless.

Transmutation of elements is a biggie too.

Free energy... and all empirically confirmed in actual experimentation, not mathamagically. Unlike dark this that and the other need to save Einstein’s Gedankenexperiment

Lol. Reality check, the master confabulator.
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Old 11th November 2019, 06:49 PM   #654
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.

Sol88 mindlessly parrots his demented cult's SAFIRE dogma.
Sol88's latest cult prophet (Montgomery Childs) went to a crank conference that included free energy idiocy as stated on the SAFIRE stated site: "zero-point, magnetic, hydro, plasma, and cold fusion low-energy nuclear reactions.".

Sol88's SAFIRE delusions are "energy production, transmutation of elements, and remediation of radioactive materials" in a low powered, plasma experiment run by a bunch of deluded cranks who have abandoned science to seemingly sell scam products.

Plasmas in general are chemistry not nuclear physics. Do a random plasma experiment and you are dong chemistry. Nuclear reactions happen in plasmas at very high temperatures and densities in very specific cases, e.g. the fusion in the core of the Sun or a hydrogen bomb ! That is textbook physics: high temperatures to get over the Coulomb barrier, high densities to get a lot of collisions. There is research into plasma confinement systems that have scientific confirmation of fusion, e.g. z-pinch and tokamak machines.

ETA: I did not write "free energy" - his insult is of JeanTate.

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Old 11th November 2019, 06:59 PM   #655
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
.. Unlike dark this that and the other need to save Einstein’s Gedankenexperiment..
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.

Sol88's usual insane lies about science.

GR is a scientific theory worked on by many scientists for over a century that has passed scientific tests. Dark matter and dark energy are observed properties of the universe. Even if GR did not exist, dark matter would because much of the evidence is Newtonian (apply Newton's virial theorem to galaxy clusters and they must contain invisible matter. etc.) ! Dark energy is a placeholder for whatever is accelerating the expansion of the universe.
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Old 11th November 2019, 07:15 PM   #656
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Free energy?

Far as I could tell they using SAFIRE to produce neutrons to render radioactive material harmless.

Transmutation of elements is a biggie too.

Free energy... and all empirically confirmed in actual experimentation, not mathamagically. Unlike dark this that and the other need to save Einstein’s Gedankenexperiment

Lol. Reality check, the master confabulator.
I get that you might be motivated to sell your 1930 Penny to invest in this scam (though my bridge is surely a better choice ), but in this thread a more pertinent question is something like where on/in the Sun is the counterpart to the rod (which supplies the power)?
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Old 11th November 2019, 08:41 PM   #657
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Have you not seen it?

Shall we go right back to the start?

Jonesdave116? Shall we?
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Old 11th November 2019, 08:51 PM   #658
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Quote:
Eddington argued the need for a central fire as follows:

“No source of energy is of any avail unless it liberates energy in the deep interior of the star. It is not enough to provide for the external radiation of the star. We must provide for the maintenance of the high internal temperature, without which the star would collapse.”
Quote:
But this assumes that a star is basically a ball of hot gas, obeying the standard laboratory gas laws. Eddington’s ‘logic of exhaustion’ had to set aside facts that didn’t fit the “only possible” theory.
hot gas/plasma all the same.

Ahhhh, rc collapse into a white dwarf... got it now.


Who boy!
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Old 11th November 2019, 09:26 PM   #659
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Thumbs down The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed since 6 July 2009

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.

Sol88's usual insanity to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !
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Old 11th November 2019, 09:50 PM   #660
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.

Sol88's usual insanity to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Sol88's usual insanity of lying about posts and science.

Sol88's usual insanity of citing the deluded and documented liar Thornhill !
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Old 11th November 2019, 10:04 PM   #661
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Exclamation Twinkle, twinkle electric star is an insane rant from Wal Thornhill from 2008

Twinkle, twinkle electric star is an insane rant from Wal Thornhill from July 1st, 2008.
Insane because Thornhill quotes and so has read an undergraduate textbook on the structure and evolution of stars ! That will include the physics that stable stars have to be internally powered.
Thornhill insanely quotes from "The Internal Constitution of the Stars", 1926 by Sir Arthur Eddington, who is making the point that physics says stars have to be internally powered !
Thornhill insanely lies that Kristian Birkeland published an electrical theory of the Sun. Birkeland's 1913 book stated that the Sun was powered by radioactivity, e.g. from radium. Birkeland predicted the solar wind we now know to be neutral. He noted that his "little Earth" experiments produced images that looked like images of solar activity, the rings of Saturn, galaxies, etc., proposed electric causes and was wrong.
Thornhill insanely cites the crank Charles E. R. Bruce.
Thornhill insanely cites the crank Ralph E. Juergens.
Thornhill insanely cites some invalid speculations of Eddington as if almost a century of astronomy and astronomers did not exist !
Thornhill rants about insane "electric star formation".
Thornhill insanely lies that the conductive plasma of the photosphere has electrical discharges.
Thornhill writes "the solid surface of the star" and "The photosphere is some 250,000 kilometers above the surface of the Sun" insanity . Goes crazy about helioseismology. Insanity of double layers inside the turbulent Sun!

More Thornhill insanity :
"A star is a pinpoint object at the center of a vast plasma sheath".
The distinctive X-rays from magnetic fields accelerating elections are from his insanity of "electrical activity".
Scott's "PNP transistor" delusions.
Delusions about sunspots.
Delusions and lies about the solar magnetic field.
Insane lie about the "standard thermonuclear star theory" - the solar dynamo is textbook solar physics.
Utter "Stars fall into the categories of neon lights, gas discharge lamps and arc lights" insanity.
Delusions about the Herzsprung-Russell (H-R) diagram.
Insanity about white dwarfs ! Starting with quoting Eddington's puzzlement from maybe 90 years ago!
Insanity about red giants.

Last edited by Reality Check; 11th November 2019 at 10:06 PM.
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Old 11th November 2019, 11:06 PM   #662
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post

Hot gas, plasma all the same thing.
ionized gas and plasma is not the same thing, please explain
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Old 12th November 2019, 04:39 AM   #663
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Have you not seen it?

Shall we go right back to the start?

Jonesdave116? Shall we?
What's this got to do with SAFIRE?
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Old 12th November 2019, 05:24 AM   #664
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Patience, it's a virtue.
Don't lie. It's petty and childish.

You have no intention of ever answering me, and your behaviour on this forum is a good indication of that. Your 'replies' to my request have been completely unrelated to it.

Face it: you have no idea how what you posted supports your point. You don't even understand your own theory, so you can't explain what its implications are and how it relates to observations.
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Old 12th November 2019, 05:26 AM   #665
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.

Sol88's usual insanity to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Over 10 years of patience says the Sol88 is lying yet again and will never answer the question.
Belz...: I'm asking you in what way does this water generation prove your general theory. And while you're at it, why and how does it make the "mostly icy comet" theory incorrect? (29 October 2019).
Sol probably thinks that the moon Tethys is made of rock, too, despite it having a density lower than water.
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Old 12th November 2019, 05:44 AM   #666
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
No, the real question is, why would the Moon not have a tail.

it would be expected in an electric universe.
Exactly. So how does the EC "theory" explain the fact that the Moon does not have a tail.

Quote:
Asteroids are closer to electrical equilibrium with the surrounding plasma than comets but they are both rocky objects.
How do you explain that asteroids are closer to electrical equilibrium with the surrounding plasma than comets? What is the difference in composition that causes this?

Quote:
mostly mainstream have never looked for these structures, why would they.
You use of "mostly" seems to indicate that you accept that in fact measurements have been made that would reveal these structures. What was the result of this?

Quote:
but when they do, surprise.
Or more likely physics will win out. Again.
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Old 12th November 2019, 07:28 AM   #667
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Originally Posted by lauwenmark
Originally Posted by Sol88


So, so sad.

So so ignorant.

Good try though.
Probably the most meaningful post of Sol88 in all those years - he finally admits he's totally unable to quantify anything in his EC 'theory', and considers any request to do so as "sad" and "ignorant".

Otherwise, his pattern of answers didn't change from last time I went here. It is always:
- Gratuitous personal attack;
- Random quotes of various papers, with usually out-of-context words outlined in bold;
- Random questions following a "why does the 'mainstream' model say this?" pattern;
- A smashing closing thought ("It's all EC when you look at all this!" style).

None of his posts ever contain the slightest trace of what EC is, or how one is supposed to apply it to real cases. I've never seen, il all those threads, a *single* quantified application of the EC to a physical, measured event.

Sol88, is there *any* mathematical formulation of *any* part of the EC theory that you can quote, however trivial it may be? One that is original work, and not yet another "See this paper (not written with EC in mind)" or "The mainstream is wrong" claim?
Is there a *single* such original mathematical development that you know about?
You seem, like others, that I’m here in this thread to “prove” the electric comet.

As as I know, mainstream can’t even prove the dirtyicysnowymuddball model, using real proper science, maths and all.

So....

I’m patient.

Mathematics, that’s your proof?
You know, Sol88, lauwenmark's post is a very good one.

Your response is ... well, pretty pathetic even compared with your posts before you went fishing. It seems you have nothing to say, about the Electric Comet Theory (a key topic of this thread, along with SAFIRE).
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Old 12th November 2019, 07:29 AM   #668
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
hot gas/plasma all the same.

Ahhhh, rc collapse into a white dwarf... got it now.


Who boy!
Another example of what seems to me to be a quite incoherent reponse.
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Old 12th November 2019, 07:39 AM   #669
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Originally Posted by JeanTate
Thanks Sol88.

Originally Posted by Sol88
no inconsistencies I can see.
So you agree that equation (44) implies that the giant intergalactic Birkeland currents which power the Sun should be easily visible?

Quote:
Interestingly if Birkeland currents thread the sky everywhere we look, there should be a perfect fog of microwaves.

LINK
Indeed.

Yet that is not what we see ...

Back to SAFIRE (a key topic of this thread): the absence of a visible giant intergalactic Birkeland current which power the Sun is thus inconsistent with the SAFIRE model, correct?
No, not at all.

We detect them visible yes just not to our limited range of the EM spectrum.


Local Chimney and Superbubbles



I’ve made a couple corrections. Though the language is even for you, jean tate, simple.

Hot gas, plasma all the same thing.

Just like the Sun being a big ball of hot gas, so you can apply Gas Laws. The pressure using said laws must be tremendous in the centre of the sun, enough to produce Fusion.
Sorry to say Sol88 that I can make neither head nor tail of this response of yours.

First, it seems to have nothing to do with my post.

Second, what does your quoted text have to do with giant intergalactic Birkeland currents?

Can you clarify please?
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Old 12th November 2019, 02:08 PM   #670
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Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
Sorry to say Sol88 that I can make neither head nor tail of this response of yours.

First, it seems to have nothing to do with my post.

Second, what does your quoted text have to do with giant intergalactic Birkeland currents?

Can you clarify please?

That’s the OOM for “Giant”. The Suns “Pretty Big”.

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Old 12th November 2019, 02:12 PM   #671
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
That’s the OOM for “Giant”. The Suns “Pretty Big”.

Thanks Sol88.

Just to be sure I understand correctly ... you are claiming that the, um, local chimney is, in fact, the giant intergalactic Birkeland current which powers the Sun?
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Old 12th November 2019, 02:42 PM   #672
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Thumbs down The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed since 6 July 2009

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.
Sol88 gives us an insane rant from Wal Thornhill about stars.

Sol88's usual insanity to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

A post of deluded "The Suns “Pretty Big"" gibberish from Sol88.

Last edited by Reality Check; 12th November 2019 at 02:43 PM.
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Old 12th November 2019, 07:16 PM   #673
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Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
Thanks Sol88.

Just to be sure I understand correctly ... you are claiming that the, um, local chimney is, in fact, the giant intergalactic Birkeland current which powers the Sun?
More or less, just tidy up a few odds and ends for confirmation

Basically more data, more mainstream missions.

Parker solar probe should be a goody, now SAFIRE pretty much home and hosed.
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Old 12th November 2019, 07:21 PM   #674
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
More or less, just tidy up a few odds and ends for confirmation

Basically more data, more mainstream missions.

Parker solar probe should be a goody, now SAFIRE pretty much home and hosed.
Thanks Sol88, much appreciated.
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Old 12th November 2019, 08:08 PM   #675
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Thumbs down The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed since 6 July 2009

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.
Sol88 gives us an insane rant from Wal Thornhill about stars.

Sol88's usual insanity to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Sol88's confirms his insanity that the Local Void is the giant intergalactic Birkeland current which powers the Sun in Sol88's insane religious dogma.

The SAFIRE project started off with the insanity of Sol88's demented Thunderbolts cult turning the Sun into a white dwarf and has gone even more insane lately!

The Parker probe will do real science about the real Sun.
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Old 14th November 2019, 05:28 AM   #676
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Still no answers to my question, eh Sol?
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Old 14th November 2019, 05:32 AM   #677
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma.
Sol88 gives us an insane rant from Wal Thornhill about stars.

Sol88's usual insanity to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

Sol88's confirms his insanity that the Local Void is the giant intergalactic Birkeland current which powers the Sun in Sol88's insane religious dogma.

The SAFIRE project started off with the insanity of Sol88's demented Thunderbolts cult turning the Sun into a white dwarf and has gone even more insane lately!

The Parker probe will do real science about the real Sun.
July 2009?

(checks)

Unholy mother of Hell! And still no progress from Sol88. His MO is essentially "here, this proves EU!" and then the sciency responses, which he ignores, and rinse and repeat.
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Old 14th November 2019, 06:02 AM   #678
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
More or less, just tidy up a few odds and ends for confirmation

Basically more data, more mainstream missions.

Parker solar probe should be a goody, now SAFIRE pretty much home and hosed.
The first public release of data from Parker has just occurred. Who, over at woo central, is downloading and analysing it? When can we expect a peer-reviewed paper on the data interpretation? Of course, all the above is rhetorical. There is nobody remotely capable of understanding the data, assuming they can figure out how to download it!

https://blogs.nasa.gov/parkersolarpr...inkId=76979003

And SAFIRE has shown precisely nothing. Which is why you will see no papers on it. Other than, possibly, what happens when you stick a squillion volts through a metal sphere. Not much of interest in that for real scientists.
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Old 14th November 2019, 06:09 AM   #679
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Have you not seen it?

Shall we go right back to the start?

Jonesdave116? Shall we?
And what has that incoherent nonsense got to do with anything? They have a cartoon depicting electrons entering the Sun, and ions leaving it! Which is trivially false. As observed. Both electrons and ions are leaving the Sun. No electrons are entering it. Try again, with some actual science. Not even bothering with the youtube woo.
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Old 14th November 2019, 06:19 AM   #680
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
You seem, like others, that I’m here in this thread to “prove” the electric comet.

As as I know, mainstream can’t even prove the dirtyicysnowymuddball model, using real proper science, maths and all.

So....

I’m patient.

Mathematics, that’s your proof?
Wrong. Observation is the proof. Just as we observe water at comets since 1985. Still denied by the idiot Thornhill as late as 2006! Just as we excavate thousands of tonnes of ice from a comet in 2005. And see shed loads of it around Hartley 2 in 2011. Still not even commented upon by the aforementioned idiot. Just as we can measure the density of comets, and show that they are not rock. No explanation from the aforementioned idiot. We can impact it, hit it with a hammer, remotely analyses its thermal properties, and again show that it isn't rock. No explanation from the idiot-in-chief. We can use magnetometers on orbiting spacecraft and landers to show that none of the impossible electric woo is happening. No explanation. We can take the temperature of the comets. No hot spots from the electric woo. Unexplained. We can analyse the coma and jets spectroscopically, and show that they are not electric glow woo. No explanation. I could go on. The point being, that you have precisely nothing - no science, no mechanisms, no evidence. Just word salad.
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