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#521 |
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 32,424
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There is truth and there are lies. - President Joseph R. Biden, January 20th, 2021 |
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#522 |
puzzler
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 6,460
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The punishment could be the same as the one handed down for the proroguing - i.e. nothing. The ruling might be to pretend that the refusal to ask for an extension never happened - but unless the EU also agree to unwind the fact that we've left then that ruling would be pointless.
And with a single bound, the UK would be free! ![]() |
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#523 |
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Usk, Wales
Posts: 26,548
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"Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut |
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#524 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 31,621
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Greggs are stockpiling pork to ensure continuing supplies of sausage rolls post-Brexit:
Quote:
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#525 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,328
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Long time lurker |
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#526 |
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Usk, Wales
Posts: 26,548
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__________________
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut |
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#527 |
No longer the 1
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 24,350
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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#528 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,442
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#529 |
puzzler
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 6,460
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#530 |
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 32,424
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No, it wasn't; it was that it never happened. Parliament was not prorogued, any more than it would have been if a random person had come in off the street shouting "I hereby prorogue parliament." The action of MPs, therefore, in acting as if parliament had been prorogued, was in error, and they had no need to remain absent from the house.
Dave |
__________________
There is truth and there are lies. - President Joseph R. Biden, January 20th, 2021 |
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#531 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 5,416
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I think they adequately demonstrated discontent/rejection of the idea with Benn.
Parliament essentially declared they intended to continue exercise of powers in the same period propagation would have suspended them. Ruling the other way would have ETA: |
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#532 |
puzzler
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 6,460
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#533 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,492
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For the most part it comes down to the crown following the advice of the PM. What this ruling says is that if the PM is lying the courts can step in and reverse the prorogation. If there is still doubt at this point Parliament can immediately hold a vote on whether to prorogue or not.
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"Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen" |
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#534 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,014
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Toby "Daddy Got me into Oxford but I don't think poor people have a right to go to University however talented they are" Young. I have a general rule that whenever I'm not sure which way to jump on a controversial subject, say "should established adults in the media make personal attacks on a teenager" I look at what Toby "son of Baron" Young says on the issue and do the opposite. It's never let me down so far. |
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"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills |
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#535 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,442
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#536 |
No longer the 1
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 24,350
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__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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#537 |
No longer the 1
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 24,350
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__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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#538 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,442
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#539 |
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Usk, Wales
Posts: 26,548
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__________________
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut |
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#540 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 50,583
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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#541 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,442
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#542 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 7,815
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"I love sex and drugs and sausage rolls But nothing compares to Archie Gemmill's goal" |
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#543 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,442
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#544 |
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Usk, Wales
Posts: 26,548
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__________________
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut |
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#545 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 5,416
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We certainly don't want anyone in government appearing to respect lawful procedures even as they object to them through other channels.
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#546 |
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 43,089
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Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity. Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos |
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#547 |
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 43,089
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__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity. Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos |
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#548 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 7,815
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Sorry if the facts bother you. Hansard reflects what i said.
Unlawful actions have no effect. If someone sells you stolen goods for example the title cannot pass to you because the person never had the title to sell to you. Equally if a PM is acting unlawfully then their actions have no effect. Parliament was never legally prorogued so it just resumed and got on with its business. They should have done it sooner to be honest. The Scottish court decision gave them that right |
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"I love sex and drugs and sausage rolls But nothing compares to Archie Gemmill's goal" |
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#549 |
No longer the 1
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 24,350
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__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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#550 |
Uncritical "thinker"
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 22,918
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Did you see Johnson's denial on ITV?
"How do you know it didn't happen if you can't remember the meal and she can?" "It didn't happen" "But how can you be sure?" I think he said there were lots of personal reasons he wasn't going to go into but it didn't happen. It was quite telling about his behaviour. A normal, non-assaulty bloke could just say, "because I've never done anything like that in my life" |
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OECD healthcare spending Expenditure on healthcare http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm link is 2015 data (2013 Data below): UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending |
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#551 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,442
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#552 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 7,815
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legally it didn't happen. just as legally your stuff wasn't sold.
Its amazing that people will argue this stuff. Read the decision. It was as if they had walked in with a blank piece of paper. It would have been VERY interesting if the speaker and opposition MPs had continued to sit and pass legislation because there's every chance it would have legally stood. |
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"I love sex and drugs and sausage rolls But nothing compares to Archie Gemmill's goal" |
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#553 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,014
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I've found the people queuing to defend him quite disgusting, I've repeatedly heard 'it was different in offices then', we're talking about around the millennium not the 1950's ffs. I was working in offices then and no-one I worked with would have considered it normal behaviour. |
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"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills |
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#554 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,442
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#555 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 7,815
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__________________
"I love sex and drugs and sausage rolls But nothing compares to Archie Gemmill's goal" |
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#556 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 11,919
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An almost sensible proposal from the 'government'!
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...or-its-no-deal Details have emerged of the prime minister’s final Brexit offer that he will lay out on Wednesday, with Northern Ireland staying under EU single market regulations for agri-food and manufactured goods until at least 2025, at which point its assembly in Stormont will decide whether to continue alignment with EU or UK standards. With a few modifications this can maybe replace the backstop. All it needs is to be inclusive enough to work at all, have permanent continuation of the arrangement as the legal default and demand any change is subject to a referendum in NI, perhaps with a 60% treshold. This would make it a backstop with a guaranteed way to remove it that doesn't rely on passing legislation with 50%+1 vote. McHrozni |
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لا إله إلا رجل والعلوم والتكنولوجيا وأنبيائه |
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#557 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 31,621
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#558 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 11,919
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Well, customs union would cover mostly "agri-foods and manufactured goods" and not services anyway. Presumably this proposal wouldn't need significant changes to make this a customs union by another name.
Give it no default expiry date and require a positive action to change the status quo with a referendum and it might work. In that scenario it's really just the original backstop with a minor addition that allows Northern Ireland to choose who it wants to be more closely tied to. By itself this shouldn't be a problem. The only necessary modifications are that it's not Stormont that decides but the NI populace on a referendum, that the treshold to change status quo of the referendum is 60%+1 vote and unless something else gets over the treshold, things stay as they are. Another necessary modification may be to include something that would be a part of the customs union but is not "agri-foods and manufactured goods", I guess raw materials might qualify. These modifications seem doable, even in the two weeks that remain. What you're left with is a slightly modified original backstop. This just goes to show what a trainwreck Brexit has been. McHrozni |
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لا إله إلا رجل والعلوم والتكنولوجيا وأنبيائه |
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#559 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 31,621
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Meanwhile, the Labour Party is doing everything it possibly can to scupper the idea of a government of national unity
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This reinforces two things IMO:
I'm not sure which of the two of them would be a worse UK Prime Minister. |
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#560 |
Philosophile
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 29,619
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"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893) |
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