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Old 16th November 2020, 12:32 PM   #2801
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So now Sean Hannity is backing up Trump.

Quote:
TRUMP on VACCINE: New Treatment Will ‘End the China Plague’
What an embarrassment.
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Old 16th November 2020, 12:46 PM   #2802
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Originally Posted by sphenisc View Post
You both seem to be under the same delusion that what your relatives do is evidence of a lack of hatred for the military.
Come on, it was just supporting information.

Neither of us said it was proof.
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Old 16th November 2020, 12:56 PM   #2803
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Ivanka Trump claiming credit on behalf of Donald again

@IvankaTrump
Fact Check: This Moderna /NIH vaccine is literally the one that President @realDonaldTrump partnered with Moderna to create on January 13, 2020... I repeat January 13th, 2020.

Just be happy. This is great news for America and for the world! Flag of United States twitter.com/irishpatty54/s…
Ivanka's memory is as distorted as Daddy's. ETA I see she is using the NIH dates noted above. Daddy had even less to do with vaccine development then.

HHS: Fact Sheet: Explaining Operation Warp Speed
Quote:
Mar
March 30: HHS announced $456 million in funds for Johnson & Johnson's (Janssen) candidate vaccine. Phase 1 clinical trials began in Belgium on July 24th and in the U.S on July 27th. Janssen's large-scale Phase 3 clinical trial began on September 22, 2020, making them the fourth OWS candidate to enter Phase 3 clinical trials in the United States. Up to 60,000 volunteers will be enrolled in the trial at up to nearly 215 clinical research sites in the United States and internationally.
March was the earliest date on the page. So is she saying Trump was on the case in Jan but didn't get the ball rolling for 2 more months?

And Mar wasn't the date Moderna got any money, Apr was.
Quote:
April
April 16: HHS made exit disclaimer icon up to $483 million in support available for Moderna's candidate vaccine, which began Phase 1 trials on March 16 and received a fast-track designation from FDA. This agreement was expanded exit disclaimer icon on July 26 to include an additional $472 million to support late-stage clinical development, including the expanded Phase 3 study of the company's mRNA vaccine, which began on July 27th.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 16th November 2020 at 01:05 PM.
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Old 16th November 2020, 12:59 PM   #2804
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweeted

European Countries are sadly getting clobbered by the China Virus. The Fake News does not like reporting this!

STOCK MARKET GETTING VERY CLOSE TO 30,000 ON NEW VACCINE NEWS. 95% EFFECTIVE!
He so wishes he was getting votes for this development.
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Old 16th November 2020, 01:02 PM   #2805
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Question: Will people who have been vaccinated get some kind of card or certificate that says so? Will we find that admission to some public places and events will require proof of vaccination? Seems like this could be a real sticking point as vaccination gets underway, but doesn't get to everybody at the same time.
Cart before the horse.

Hospitals might want employees to provide evidence they had the vaccine.

But as the vaccine is introduced, the number of infections will go down. Businesses will be allowed to open up.
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Old 16th November 2020, 04:05 PM   #2806
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
March was the earliest date on the page. So is she saying Trump was on the case in Jan but didn't get the ball rolling for 2 more months?
I doubt that's what she is saying. That would be the truth, so it seems unlikely she would be saying it.
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Old 16th November 2020, 05:32 PM   #2807
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Again, he wants credit for doing the bare minimum a President could do. And often he failed to do that.
Very few people give trump much credit at all. Even most of the Republican leadership have little to say. So who is the latest to praise him? His daughter! That's pathetic. The man's daughter -- who has made a career of taking down big bucks on daddy's payroll -- says she thinks her daddy is so good! Seriously?

It's pathetic that the few people trump can still count on to sing his praises are outright sycophants, people who want to stay on his payroll and his own children. That speaks volumes about trump. Meanwhile, back on Planet Earth:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg US Total cases deaths 11162020.jpg (36.0 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg US New cases 11152020b.jpg (43.2 KB, 10 views)
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Old 16th November 2020, 07:05 PM   #2808
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From Worldometer:
Quote:
United States
Coronavirus Cases:
11,538,057
Deaths:
252,651

New Cases:
162,149
New Deaths:
739
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Old 16th November 2020, 07:38 PM   #2809
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What about the safety trials? Did all that take place and I missed it? (Quite possible.)
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Old 16th November 2020, 09:01 PM   #2810
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
What about the safety trials? Did all that take place and I missed it? (Quite possible.)
As I understand it, the safety trials are the first phase of stage three, where they give it to a small number of people and see if anything terrible happens. They are now completing the last phase of stage three, to see if it's effective in a large group.
https://thevaccinetracker.com/stage-3

Last edited by Bob001; 16th November 2020 at 09:02 PM.
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Old 16th November 2020, 09:07 PM   #2811
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
What about the safety trials? Did all that take place and I missed it? (Quite possible.)
Yep, you missed it. That was phase 1 and 2.
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Old 16th November 2020, 09:12 PM   #2812
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Trump and the vaccine release.

If the vaccine is ready ~end of Dec, I predict (if he isn't stopped) Trump will still be refusing to turn the reins over to Biden just so Trump can control distribution of the vaccine. He's going to want to get more revenge if it is at all possible and brag that the vaccine was his doing.
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Old 17th November 2020, 05:25 AM   #2813
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This is from a CNBC news story about Pfizer's success with its vaccine development. The story is from a week ago but probably bears repeating.
Quote:
Pfizer’s results were based on the first interim efficacy analysis conducted by an external and independent Data Monitoring Committee from the phase three clinical study. The independent group of experts oversees U.S. clinical trials to ensure the safety of participants. The analysis evaluated 94 confirmed Covid-19 infections among the trial’s 43,538 participants. Pfizer and the U.S. pharmaceutical giant’s German biotech partner said the case split between vaccinated individuals and those who received a placebo indicated a vaccine efficacy rate of above 90% at seven days after the second dose. It means that protection from Covid-19 is achieved 28 days after the initial vaccination, which consists of a two-dose schedule. The final vaccine efficacy percentage may vary, however, as safety and additional data continue to be collected. CNBC link
Information was also reported as to the vaccine's timeline.
Quote:
Dr. Scott Gottlieb, a former FDA commissioner and a member of Pfizer’s board, told CNBC the vaccine could be available in limited use as early as late December and widely available by the third quarter of 2021...Based on current projections, Pfizer and BioNTech expect to produce up to 50 million vaccine doses in 2020, and up to 1.3 billion doses in 2021.
One factor seems to be, Pfizer thinks it can produce fifty million doses by the end of this year, but as the treatment is two-doses per patient, that would only be enough to treat twenty-five million people. Still, a good start. I plan on getting vaccinated as soon as it is possible to do so.
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Old 17th November 2020, 08:47 AM   #2814
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Any word on use in immuno-compromised patients? I had heard the Moderna vaccine had trial had included "high risk" people, but I didn't hear what that meant.
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Old 17th November 2020, 01:13 PM   #2815
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
One factor seems to be, Pfizer thinks it can produce fifty million doses by the end of this year, but as the treatment is two-doses per patient, that would only be enough to treat twenty-five million people.
ie. less than 8% of the (current) population. Then everyone will relax thinking the crisis is over, thus starting the fourth wave.
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Old 17th November 2020, 03:11 PM   #2816
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Senator Rand Paul tweets

@RandPaul
Great news!
- Pfizer vaccine 90% effective
- Moderna vaccine 94.5% effective - Naturally acquired COVID-19 99.9982% percent effective*

* (estimating 200 reinfections out of 11 million Americans, which is likely an overestimation of actual reinfections)

Why does the left accept immune theory when it comes to vaccines, but not when discussing naturally acquired immunity?
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Old 17th November 2020, 03:14 PM   #2817
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Senator Rand Paul tweets

@RandPaul
Great news!
- Pfizer vaccine 90% effective
- Moderna vaccine 94.5% effective - Naturally acquired COVID-19 99.9982% percent effective*

* (estimating 200 reinfections out of 11 million Americans, which is likely an overestimation of actual reinfections)

Why does the left accept immune theory when it comes to vaccines, but not when discussing naturally acquired immunity?
If stupidity burned, Rand would be in the ICU. When are these morons going to understand the herd-immunity has only ever worked with vaccination? And even if it did work, they're talking about killing millions of people to achieve it.
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Old 17th November 2020, 03:15 PM   #2818
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Senator Rand Paul tweets

@RandPaul
Great news!
- Pfizer vaccine 90% effective
- Moderna vaccine 94.5% effective - Naturally acquired COVID-19 99.9982% percent effective*

* (estimating 200 reinfections out of 11 million Americans, which is likely an overestimation of actual reinfections)

Why does the left accept immune theory when it comes to vaccines, but not when discussing naturally acquired immunity?
Man that guy is dumb.
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Old 17th November 2020, 03:20 PM   #2819
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
Man that guy is dumb.
His neighbor needs to re-calibrate him again....
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Old 17th November 2020, 03:22 PM   #2820
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
If stupidity burned, Rand would be in the ICU. When are these morons going to understand the herd-immunity has only ever worked with vaccination? And even if it did work, they're talking about killing millions of people to achieve it.
Let's be fair: It's not like he grew up in a house with a medical professional in it.

What? His dad was a doctor? My bad. Carry on.
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Old 17th November 2020, 03:26 PM   #2821
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Smile

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Ivanka Trump claiming credit on behalf of Donald again

@IvankaTrump
Fact Check: This Moderna /NIH vaccine is literally the one that President @realDonaldTrump partnered with Moderna to create on January 13, 2020... I repeat January 13th, 2020.

Just be happy. This is great news for America and for the world! Flag of United States twitter.com/irishpatty54/s…
Actually, it was DOLLY PARTON who did more to advance the research than Ivanka's father.

Quote:
Not only did Dolly Parton write Jolene and I Will Always Love You on the same day, but she also potentially saved the world.
Turns out she donated $1M to a Covid Research fund at Vanderbilt in April, and they were part of the Moderna team.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...181309940.html
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Old 17th November 2020, 03:27 PM   #2822
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Senator Rand Paul tweets

@RandPaul
Great news!
- Pfizer vaccine 90% effective
- Moderna vaccine 94.5% effective - Naturally acquired COVID-19 99.9982% percent effective*

* (estimating 200 reinfections out of 11 million Americans, which is likely an overestimation of actual reinfections)

Why does the left accept immune theory when it comes to vaccines, but not when discussing naturally acquired immunity?

Isn't Rand Paul a doctor? And he doesn't know the answer?

That's kind of scary.

Although, actually, it's just illustrative of how people can get so wrapped up in their own thoughts and own arguments that they don't listen to what people are actually saying. What is it about people that we so often insist on inventing arguments from the other side, rather than just what they are saying.
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Old 17th November 2020, 03:27 PM   #2823
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Let's be fair: It's not like he grew up in a house with a medical professional in it.

What? His dad was a doctor? My bad. Carry on.
Doesn't Rand claim to be a doctor himself?
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Old 17th November 2020, 03:29 PM   #2824
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I looked it up to be sure, and confirmed that yes, Rand Paul is a doctor.

People with low IQs don't become doctors, so he isn't stupid in that sense.

So, the question becomes how could someone who is, based on available evidence, not stupid, manage to say things like that tweet that are completely stupid?
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Old 17th November 2020, 03:33 PM   #2825
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I looked it up to be sure, and confirmed that yes, Rand Paul is a doctor.

People with low IQs don't become doctors, so he isn't stupid in that sense.

So, the question becomes how could someone who is, based on available evidence, not stupid, manage to say things like that tweet that are completely stupid?
It is WAY out of his field. He was an opthamologist who practiced for 10 years.

Trump's task force doctor (Scott Atlas) is way out of his field too.
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Old 17th November 2020, 03:42 PM   #2826
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
It is WAY out of his field. He was an opthamologist who practiced for 10 years.

Trump's task force doctor (Scott Atlas) is way out of his field too.
I practiced for zero years, and I understand what's wrong with Rand's tweet. I don't need any specialized knowledge at all.

Maybe I'm underestimating myself. I get what herd immunity is and why it happens and to understand it I understand math, not medicine. It isn't real, hard core, math, but maybe I just have had enough math drilled into me as an engineer that I get the concept of transmission without knowing anything about viruses specifically.

And a doctor wouldn't take nearly as much math as I have, so maybe he doesn't get it. Maybe when he hears about lots of members of the herd having antibodies, he can't grasp how big it has to be for it to be "lots", or what would have to happen to reach "lots" in a natural herd, i.e. a natural herd like us.
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Old 17th November 2020, 04:01 PM   #2827
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I practiced for zero years, and I understand what's wrong with Rand's tweet. I don't need any specialized knowledge at all.

Maybe I'm underestimating myself. I get what herd immunity is and why it happens and to understand it I understand math, not medicine. It isn't real, hard core, math, but maybe I just have had enough math drilled into me as an engineer that I get the concept of transmission without knowing anything about viruses specifically.

And a doctor wouldn't take nearly as much math as I have, so maybe he doesn't get it. Maybe when he hears about lots of members of the herd having antibodies, he can't grasp how big it has to be for it to be "lots", or what would have to happen to reach "lots" in a natural herd, i.e. a natural herd like us.
Some mathematicians don't take as much math. True story - when I was in school we had a guy change majors to math because he couldn't get the math we were taking in engineering (DiffEq, I think).

I seriously doubt if Rand Paul put those figures together. I would guess he was interested in the last line only.
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Old 17th November 2020, 04:22 PM   #2828
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An interesting article in the New Yorker magazine about Covid-19. The ways researchers discovered what a dangerous disease it is. Back in March researchers at the tenOever lab, part of the Icahn School of Medicine at Mt. Sinai Hospital, located in Manhattan's East Harlem, began to analyze the virus's characteristics. One of the first things they discovered was how invasive the virus is. A typical virus replaces less than one per cent of the ribonucleic acid (RNA) in the cells it infects. "With Covid-19," lab director virologist Benjamin tenOever said, "about sixty per cent of the RNA in an infected cell is of viral origin—which is the highest I’ve ever seen. Polio comes close.”

Another distinguishing attribute of Covid-19 is the way it does not repel white blood cells but attracts them.
Quote:
White blood cells are powerful weapons: they arrive on an inflammatory tide, destroying cells on every side, clogging up passages with the wreckage. They are meant to be used selectively, on invaders that have been contained in a small area. With the coronavirus, they are deployed too widely—a carpet bombing, rather than a surgical strike. As they do their work, inflammation distends the lungs, and debris fills them like a fog. New Yorker link
As for the vaccine, if twenty-five million Americans are vaccinated in 'late December,' and the vaccine reportedly takes twenty-eight days to become fully effective, we're in late January. I now understand why both health officials and economists say the effects of the pandemic will last -- best case -- into the second half of 2021.

We've been over herd immunity, including the nonsense about letting it happen naturally. John Hopkins says roughly 300 million Americans would have to be infected for natural immunity to occur. Rand Paul is trolling, pure and simple. Remember, Paul has bragged about presenting "misinformation." I'm not certain but I think Rand Paul was once a member of the forum. He posted under the username "Logger."
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Old 17th November 2020, 04:23 PM   #2829
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They still haven't learned

Chuck Grassley, 87, tested positive for covid. He was in the Senate on Monday and presided over the chamber as it opened and removed his mask to speak on the floor. He went into isolation today after being exposed to someone with covid-19.


ChuckGrassley tweeted

@ChuckGrassley
I’ve tested positive for coronavirus. I’ll b following my doctors’ orders/CDC guidelines & continue to quarantine. I’m feeling good + will keep up on my work for the ppl of Iowa from home. I appreciate everyone’s well wishes + prayers &look fwd to resuming my normal schedule soon
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Old 17th November 2020, 05:07 PM   #2830
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
They still haven't learned

Chuck Grassley, 87, tested positive for covid. He was in the Senate on Monday and presided over the chamber as it opened and removed his mask to speak on the floor. He went into isolation today after being exposed to someone with covid-19.

I wonder if this was before or after Ted Cruz called Sherrod Brown "a complete ass" for wanting Dan Sullivan to wear a mask while speaking to the Senate.

Quote:
Republican Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas on Monday called Sen. Sherrod Brown "a complete ass" following a tense dispute over mask wearing on the Senate floor between the Ohio Democrat and Alaska Republican Sen. Dan Sullivan.
The dispute, captured in a video clip that has now gone viral, took place when Brown asked Sullivan to wear a mask while speaking as he presided over the Senate, a request that Sullivan refused to comply with.
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Old 17th November 2020, 06:45 PM   #2831
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This post could go here or in the "What Are Trump Supporters Saying about Covid-19?" thread, but this one is much more active. In terms of coronavirus, South Dakota has become known for two factors. One, a governor who resists mask mandates and insists things are just fine even as two, the state is experiencing a wicked surge in cases. USA Today described South Dakota last weekend.
Quote:
South Dakota welcomed hundreds of thousands of visitors to a massive motorcycle rally this summer, declined to cancel the state fair and still doesn't require masks. Now its hospitals are filling up and the state's COVID-19 death rate is among the worst in the world. USA Today link
There are plenty of 'true believers' in South Dakota. Even among residents who are dying of what their doctors tell them is Covid-19 and they insist is not. Hard to believe. This is from an interview a South Dakota emergency room nurse named Jodi Doering gave CNN last weekend as reported by USA Today:
Quote:
South Dakota's high rates of COVID-19 and low virus regulation have sparked criticism even as some dying of the virus there don't believe it poses a real threat. "They tell you there must be another reason they are sick. They call you names and ask why you have to wear all that 'stuff' because they don’t have COViD because it’s not real. Yes. This really happens." In an interview with CNN, Doering said her description wasn't about a single patient. She tweeted after her frustration boiled over, as she recalled numerous patients whose dying words echoed the same theme: "This can't be happening. It's not real." USA Today link
South Dakota has 76,000 cases per one million population, the second highest total of any state. North Dakota is first. New York, the epicenter of the early Covid-19 onslaught, has 31,200 per one million residents, less than half what South Dakota has. I recall New York Governor Andrew Cuomo urging New Yorkers to take this very very seriously. The South Dakota governor thinks her state has been doing fine. Why change anything?

Unbelievable. And just plain stupid.
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Old 17th November 2020, 06:49 PM   #2832
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Senator Rand Paul tweets

@RandPaul
Great news!
- Pfizer vaccine 90% effective
- Moderna vaccine 94.5% effective - Naturally acquired COVID-19 99.9982% percent effective*

* (estimating 200 reinfections out of 11 million Americans, which is likely an overestimation of actual reinfections)

Why does the left accept immune theory when it comes to vaccines, but not when discussing naturally acquired immunity?
And he's supposed to be a doctor?
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Old 17th November 2020, 07:13 PM   #2833
Resume
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From Worldometer:
Quote:
United States
Coronavirus Cases:
11,695,711
Deaths:
254,255

New Cases:
157,261
New Deaths:
1,615
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Old 17th November 2020, 07:16 PM   #2834
Meadmaker
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
This post could go here or in the "What Are Trump Supporters Saying about Covid-19?" thread, but this one is much more active.
That other thread was started when my eyes popped in disbelief at the news that his approval rating had gone up in late March, based on his handling of the pandemic. So, that thread was meant to be more along the lines of a "What is it that people think he's doing right?"

Right now I'm sure it would be giving credit to Trump for vaccine development.


One of the things about Trump is that even if he deserves credit, people like me, and I suspect most of us, wouldn't give him credit, because he claims it so often. I know he has claimed credit for so many things in the past that when I hear him say that something good has happened as a result of his efforts, I assume he's lying. He seems certain to be lying about his contribution to the effort, and possibly lying about the thing that is supposed to be good.

Did he do anything that any other president would not have done when it comes to vaccine development? It's possible that he cut some regulations faster than a Democrat would have. That would be a typical Republican thing to do. So, did he? How would I know? I only have Trump's word for it. He thinks that him saying it ought to be enough to make him be believed. Actual persuasion and building a case are not things that he is familiar with.
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Old 17th November 2020, 07:20 PM   #2835
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by sphenisc View Post
You both seem to be under the same delusion that what your relatives do is evidence of a lack of hatred for the military.
You seem to be under the same delusion as dudalb that a lot of people in this thread hate the military. I haven't see any evidence of this and dudalb hasn't presented any. Would you like to present any evidence of this?
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Old 17th November 2020, 07:22 PM   #2836
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

Another Vaccine just announced. This time by Moderna, 95% effective. For those great “historians”, please remember that these great discoveries, which will end the China Plague, all took place on my watch!
So did the China Plague, you moron.
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Old 17th November 2020, 07:26 PM   #2837
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The pandemic response thus far has been badly mismanaged. I’m sure the ground work they laid for the vaccine production and distribution is also badly mismanaged.

Does Trump deserve credit for individual incidents of competency amongst a sea of mismanagement? It must be true that not every single thing he did was incompetent, but so what. People will view it how they want. I think he did a terrible job and has not apparently completely given up on trying.
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Old 17th November 2020, 09:48 PM   #2838
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Quote:
[Senator Rand Paul tweets]

@RandPaul
Great news!
- Pfizer vaccine 90% effective
- Moderna vaccine 94.5% effective - Naturally acquired COVID-19 99.9982% percent effective*

* (estimating 200 reinfections out of 11 million Americans, which is likely an overestimation of actual reinfections)

Why does the left accept immune theory when it comes to vaccines, but not when discussing naturally acquired immunity?
Because your "naturally acquired immunity" idea ******* kills people, you moron. Do you really believe that making 11 million people immune is worth the lives of 250,000 people.

Do the math you idiot. Making 327 million people immune using your dumb idea would cost 7.4 million lives. Worth it?
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Old 17th November 2020, 10:01 PM   #2839
Aridas
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
One of the things about Trump is that even if he deserves credit, people like me, and I suspect most of us, wouldn't give him credit, because he claims it so often. I know he has claimed credit for so many things in the past that when I hear him say that something good has happened as a result of his efforts, I assume he's lying. He seems certain to be lying about his contribution to the effort, and possibly lying about the thing that is supposed to be good.
I'm going to disagree, but just barely. I'm quite happy to give Trump credit for the good things that he's actually done. That it's frequently directly outweighed by the directly relevant bad he's done speaks to my overall reactions in those cases, though. After all, much of what Trump's actually done in the way of good things has been to ameliorate some limited amount of the suffering and damage that he caused or exacerbated, after all. The constant lying and trying to take credit for things that he doesn't deserve any credit for makes me much more wary of accepting claims that he deserves credit, yes, but doesn't impact my willingness to give credit where credit is due, both good and bad.
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Old 17th November 2020, 10:11 PM   #2840
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I'll give Trump credit for his successes as soon as he takes responsibility for his mistakes.

Honest praise is wasted on someone who can't accept honest criticism.
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