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Tags 2020 elections , donald trump , joe biden

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Old 10th November 2020, 09:24 PM   #761
Aridas
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Dan Patrick the Lieutenant Governor of Texas says he will pay up to $1 million reward to people that come forward and report voter fraud.

https://www.danpatrick.org/patrick-o...wers-tipsters/
I just see that as big incentive to lie.

Also, a further exposing of how thoroughly unprincipled the GOP is when it comes to whistleblowers.
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Old 10th November 2020, 09:26 PM   #762
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I think it is a mistake to view all these delusional souls that have bought into Trump's rhetoric as dumb. Sure, many are. It's more that they are conditioned to not fully challenge certain personal positions.
Oh no, I wasn't talking about Trump followers in particular in this respect. I think there's a rather complex constellation of cognitive and emotional failures that leads to one embracing Trump, and I don't even want to go there.

Some people do put an unnatural onus on abstract evaluations of intelligence, though.
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Old 10th November 2020, 09:28 PM   #763
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Tweeting.
Probably. For a very short time. (see my post immediately preceding yours)
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Old 10th November 2020, 10:15 PM   #764
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Originally Posted by eerok View Post
Oh no, I wasn't talking about Trump followers in particular in this respect. I think there's a rather complex constellation of cognitive and emotional failures that leads to one embracing Trump, and I don't even want to go there.
It's really not that at all. It's cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias . The fact is we are all susceptible to it. Every one of us. It's part tribal, part conditioned response
and simply cherry picking. It takes a sort of work to challenge our beliefs and most people do not practice overcoming those positions. It is much easier to ignore what goes against them and accept only what reinforces them.

As someone who spent 30 years in sales I see techniques that Trump employs such as repeating over and over again his lies. Repetition is a cornerstone of sales and marketing. He found a market of individuals who are predisposed to a certain message and he never tries to get them to accept any alternative message.

It's easy to get people to believe what they already believe even if it is wrong. Its close to impossible to get them to believe the opposite even with mountains of evidence. They will always be inclined to dismiss whatever evidence you put in front of them.

I was watching earlier today an interview with Dr. Shermer who wrote Why Smart People believe Weird Things.

I recommend it. But it is 40 minutes long.

https://youtu.be/jLEQCipy6NM
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Old 10th November 2020, 10:18 PM   #765
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Not sure what you're saying. A signature is required pretty much everywhere. They'll reject your ballot in Washington State if you don't sign the affidavit that comes with the ballot.

If you vote in person, you sign the registrar.
He's making it appear that a signature is the only method of securing mail-in ballots. Mail in ballots use a lot of security measures in addition a signature:

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-wo...eatures-primer
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Old 10th November 2020, 10:21 PM   #766
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Not sure if this was posted already, but here's some notes on Twitter's likely action on Jan 20.
Trump's world leader Twitter exemption ends Jan 20.

The official POTUS and related accounts will automatically transfer to President Biden and staff. That's really gonna burn The FPDJT.
That doesn't mean crap. Twitter's exemptions apply to candidates as well. All Trump has to do is say he's running in 2024 and he's back in their graces.
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Old 10th November 2020, 10:33 PM   #767
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Originally Posted by jadebox View Post
He's making it appear that a signature is the only method of securing mail-in ballots. Mail in ballots use a lot of security measures in addition a signature:

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-wo...eatures-primer
That's a great link. Thanks.
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Old 10th November 2020, 10:36 PM   #768
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
That doesn't mean crap. Twitter's exemptions apply to candidates as well. All Trump has to do is say he's running in 2024 and he's back in their graces.
Does it now?
Does that mean anyone can say they are a candidate to get the exemption? Or maybe they have to file?
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Old 10th November 2020, 10:52 PM   #769
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Dan Patrick the Lieutenant Governor of Texas says he will pay up to $1 million reward to people that come forward and report voter fraud.

https://www.danpatrick.org/patrick-o...wers-tipsters/

He’s copying Randi’s Million Dollar Challenge! How rude.
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Old 10th November 2020, 11:00 PM   #770
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Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
Is that tax payer money? It's getting ridiculous if they are funding this BS with taxpayer money
He's drawing from campaign donations.
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Old 10th November 2020, 11:15 PM   #771
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Originally Posted by EvilBiker View Post
He’s copying Randi’s Million Dollar Challenge! How rude.
That's what it made me think of too. I was wondering if it worked in the same way in that he knows that millions dollars is quite safe.
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Old 10th November 2020, 11:28 PM   #772
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Originally Posted by Egg View Post
That's what it made me think of too. I was wondering if it worked in the same way in that he knows that millions dollars is quite safe.

Exactly. No risk, big exposure.
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Old 10th November 2020, 11:30 PM   #773
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Originally Posted by EvilBiker View Post
Exactly. No risk, big exposure.
He's "helping!" Or at least, looking like he's helping.
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Old 10th November 2020, 11:32 PM   #774
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Does it now?
Does that mean anyone can say they are a candidate to get the exemption? Or maybe they have to file?
Good point. The article I read was not clear. I got the impression it would only apply to national offices; someone that could become a "world leader".
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Old 10th November 2020, 11:47 PM   #775
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
Good point. The article I read was not clear. I got the impression it would only apply to national offices; someone that could become a "world leader".
Seems gray. That's fine say three years from now and they file the necessary paperwork. Otherwise anyone over the age of 35 and a US citizen could qualify.
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Old 11th November 2020, 12:58 AM   #776
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Originally Posted by eerok View Post
This reminds me of the (was it a Financial Post?) article that speculated Trump's IQ based on where he went to school. They didn't factor in how much money was involved in buying his SAT scores, exams, and all the rest. Also I understand he didn't actually go to Wharton.

My conclusion is that those who care so much about arbitrary and speculative standards that are applied to decide who is smart or not aren't too terribly smart themselves.
He did go to Wharton. He attended the Wharton School which is part of the U of Pennsylvania where he received an undergraduate degree in economics. What he likes people to infer... and often implies... is that he earned the much more prestigious Wharton MBA Business degree.

His sister, Maryanne (the retired federal judge), also claims that she did his homework for him while he was in college and that he paid someone to sit his SAT exam for him.
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Old 11th November 2020, 01:04 AM   #777
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Dan Patrick the Lieutenant Governor of Texas says he will pay up to $1 million reward to people that come forward and report voter fraud.

https://www.danpatrick.org/patrick-o...wers-tipsters/
That certainly seems like the actions of people who already have evidence of voter fraud...
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Old 11th November 2020, 01:55 AM   #778
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
That's why I'm eating zero crow if the GOP or SCOTUS does smack Trump down hard at some final step and the Trumpers start doing some big "See a check & balance stopped him you were worried about nothing" dance.
That kind of reminds me of the Goldsboro incident, which AFAIK is the closest thing we've ever had to a non-test nuclear explosion in the US. "Hey, it was nothing, the fourth and final failsafe worked" is hardly something to get excited about.
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Old 11th November 2020, 01:58 AM   #779
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Biden is not getting intelligence reports, because Trump's officials are refusing to acknowledge that he has won
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Old 11th November 2020, 02:01 AM   #780
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
that's not the reason.

the reason is that Trump officials don't want Biden to get briefed on America's no.1 security risk: Donald Trump.
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Old 11th November 2020, 02:59 AM   #781
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
BREAKING: Postal worker admits fabricating allegations of ballot tampering, officials say

Postal worker admits fabricating allegations of ballot tampering, officials say
A Pennsylvania postal worker whose claims have been cited by top Republicans as potential evidence of widespread voting irregularities recanted to U.S. Postal Service investigators.
washingtonpost.com
That would be Richard Hopkins of USPS, who claimed his supervisor told staff to backdate late ballot paper arrivals. He did not explain why he signed the false affidavit.

US$1m has been offered to anyone who can prove election fraud. No takers so far...?
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Old 11th November 2020, 03:03 AM   #782
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
That kind of reminds me of the Goldsboro incident, which AFAIK is the closest thing we've ever had to a non-test nuclear explosion in the US. "Hey, it was nothing, the fourth and final failsafe worked" is hardly something to get excited about.
Fun fact. Apparently, when companies were trying to figure out ways to economically get natural gas out of the ground, they tried nukes multiple times. The main reason why that stopped was that the cost of using the nukes meant that the operations operated at a loss. That accounted for apparently 3 of the 31 nukes exploded in the US in 27 tests to try to find peaceful uses for nuclear explosions.
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Old 11th November 2020, 03:05 AM   #783
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There have been several claims there is a coup d'état underway, ever since Mike Pompeo made his ridiculous comment that Trump second administration was underway. It seems unlikely to most that this could succeed. Bu could it?

Quote:
Clayton Thyne and Jonathan Powell's dataset of coups defines attempted coups as "illegal and overt attempts by the military or other elites within the state apparatus to unseat the sitting executive."[1] They arrive at this definition by combining common definitions in the existing literature, and removing specificities and ambiguities that exist in many definitions.
wiki

You wouldn't need the entire armed forces and intelligence behind you, you just need the goodwill of the Police Chiefs, Generals, Commanders, Admirals and Field Marshalls and it is done. Where would the opposition come from? People on the ground, sure, but the gun lobby mob will mostly be MAGA supporters. Support will come from Bonsaro Brazil's right wing president, Alexander Johnson? hmmm, the UK is hardly a major world power these days. NATO? Maybe. China, certainly. Russia, hmmm....?
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Old 11th November 2020, 03:22 AM   #784
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
There have been several claims there is a coup d'état underway, ever since Mike Pompeo made his ridiculous comment that Trump second administration was underway. It seems unlikely to most that this could succeed. Bu could it?

wiki

You wouldn't need the entire armed forces and intelligence behind you, you just need the goodwill of the Police Chiefs, Generals, Commanders, Admirals and Field Marshalls and it is done. Where would the opposition come from? People on the ground, sure, but the gun lobby mob will mostly be MAGA supporters. Support will come from Bonsaro Brazil's right wing president, Alexander Johnson? hmmm, the UK is hardly a major world power these days. NATO? Maybe. China, certainly. Russia, hmmm....?
IMO it depends on the process that gets you there.

If the election result is ratified and Joe Biden is declared President but President Trump and his administration fail to vacate the White House, then I don't see that being effective.

OTOH if there are actions like SCOTUS ruling, faithless electors overturning the election result or Republican representatives refusing to ratify the election result then that could be effective because there would be a (quasi) legal basis for a second term.

edited to add......

...and it is the latter that almost the whole of the GOP is working towards.

Does anyone really think that Mitch McConnell would ratify an election result that would make Joe Biden President if there was any way at all not to do so ?

Last edited by The Don; 11th November 2020 at 03:24 AM.
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Old 11th November 2020, 03:36 AM   #785
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
IMO it depends on the process that gets you there.

If the election result is ratified and Joe Biden is declared President but President Trump and his administration fail to vacate the White House, then I don't see that being effective.

OTOH if there are actions like SCOTUS ruling, faithless electors overturning the election result or Republican representatives refusing to ratify the election result then that could be effective because there would be a (quasi) legal basis for a second term.

edited to add......

...and it is the latter that almost the whole of the GOP is working towards.

Does anyone really think that Mitch McConnell would ratify an election result that would make Joe Biden President if there was any way at all not to do so ?
Can the Supreme Court override the constitution? Its only jurisdiction is to uphold it and ensure it is adhered to. I know Trump hastily swore in his own choice despite protests from the Democrats to wait but would she go against her own legal training of impartiality...?
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Old 11th November 2020, 03:44 AM   #786
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Can the Supreme Court override the constitution? Its only jurisdiction is to uphold it and ensure it is adhered to.
If only it were that simple. At last check, much of the decision-making process depends on the Judges' personal goals, with the Constitution serving more as a backdrop that shapes what they have to work with when it comes to how easily they can push their goals.

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I know Trump hastily swore in his own choice despite protests from the Democrats to wait but would she go against her own legal training of impartiality...?
*snerk*

It's certainly true that the Supreme Court will not necessarily rule in Trump's favor, but I would not consider the current set of Supreme Court judges to be especially "impartial" in any particularly meaningful sense.
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Old 11th November 2020, 04:32 AM   #787
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Trump Supporter Arrested For Requesting Absentee Ballot For Dead Mother
The president accuses Democrats of “voter fraud,” but one of his supporters became the first person in a Pennsylvania county charged with the crime in 30...
huffpost.com


Hey Dan, I have some evidence here. Can I have some reward money now?
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Old 11th November 2020, 04:53 AM   #788
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It's not a crime if Republicans do it.
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Old 11th November 2020, 05:21 AM   #789
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Not sure if this was posted already, but here's some notes on Twitter's likely action on Jan 20.
Trump's world leader Twitter exemption ends Jan 20.

The official POTUS and related accounts will automatically transfer to President Biden and staff. That's really gonna burn The FPDJT.
It could be a security risk to have a former president Trump compulsively Tweeting about every foreign policy decision of the Biden administration, as I think his ego would always outweigh any obligation to protect national security. We're talking about a guy who, shortly after taking office, divulged classified intelligence to Russian officials the way a kid says to his friends, "wanna see something cool, I know where my dad hides his gun".
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Old 11th November 2020, 05:28 AM   #790
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Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
It could be a security risk to have a former president Trump compulsively Tweeting about every foreign policy decision of the Biden administration, as I think his ego would always outweigh any obligation to protect national security. We're talking about a guy who, shortly after taking office, divulged classified intelligence to Russian officials the way a kid says to his friends, "wanna see something cool, I know where my dad hides his gun".
On the silver lining to that - Trump fairly certainly could be prosecuted for any classified information that he shared, when he didn't have the authority to declassify information and a group of people working hard to cover up how he wasn't doing so under the relevant rules.
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Old 11th November 2020, 05:32 AM   #791
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Dan Patrick the Lieutenant Governor of Texas says he will pay up to $1 million reward to people that come forward and report voter fraud.

https://www.danpatrick.org/patrick-o...wers-tipsters/
"Up to" usually means "a hell of a lot less".
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Old 11th November 2020, 06:02 AM   #792
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Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
"Up to" usually means "a hell of a lot less".
Note:

Quote:
Anyone who provides information that leads to an arrest and final conviction of voter fraud will be paid a minimum of $25,000.

Bah!
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Old 11th November 2020, 06:13 AM   #793
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I didn't proclaim him to have good intentions. Seriously, has everyone lost the plot so completely? This is absurd.

For some critical thinking practice:

A: Marvin is a rapist!
B: Marvin is aggressive and a bit of a misogynist, but I don't think he's a rapist.
A: Rape supporter! Marvin Fanatic! You're proclaiming Marvin's good intentions!

A: Julie wants to set the building on fire!
B: Julie talks a lot of ****, and she is an abrasive bitch, but I don't believe she actually wants to set the building on fire.
A: Arson evangelist! Julie sycophant! You're proclaiming Julie's good intentions!

Let's backtrack a few years for a discussion that actually occurred...

A: OMG, I'm terrified that Trump is going to push the reed button and start WW3!
Me: I really don't think that's likely to happen. Trump is a blowhard and a braggart and an embarrassing person to have in charge, but I don't think he will actually go that far.
A: You're a Trumpkin!
Me: No, I'm not. I just think you're way overreacting and getting wound up about something that is extraordinarily unlikely to occur. Trump sucks, but he's not, you know, the actual devil.
A: See - that's proof that you secretly love Trump!

At what point among "skeptics" did it become acceptable to assume that failure to emotionally condemn and attack a target due to baseless assumptions and fearmongering somehow get magically transmuted into support for that target? It's completely irrational.

FFS, next you'll be telling me that my failure to jump into one of the bigfoot threads and call people names means that I secretly believe in bigfoot!
Funny(?) you bring up examples that are so far afield, so hyperbolic. Meanwhile you ignore the specific list of dictator/thug stuff that I itemized. You know, those pesky facts that fly in the face of your apologetics. Here again, in the hope you will take it in...
  • He is actively attempting to steal the election
  • He had his goons attack peaceful protesters (for a photo op)
  • He uses the arms of government as re-election minions
  • He encouraged armed whack jobs to commit political violence
  • He supported the whack jobs who plotted to take Gov. Whitmer to trial in the woods
  • He encouraged violence against the media
  • He didn't blink when Saudi thugs offed a US journalist
  • He threatened a whistle blower with death
  • He asks for political opponents to be jailed
  • He openly expresses admiration for dictators
I also hope for a pony.
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Old 11th November 2020, 06:27 AM   #794
pgwenthold
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Dan Patrick the Lieutenant Governor of Texas says he will pay up to $1 million reward to people that come forward and report voter fraud.

https://www.danpatrick.org/patrick-o...wers-tipsters/
For the folks who claim it is obvious that the election is mired by extensive fraud, they are really working hard to find any.

I am going to call, though, and report my mom.

It's absolutely a case of voter fraud. I could use the money.
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Old 11th November 2020, 06:52 AM   #795
jrhowell
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
On the silver lining to that - Trump fairly certainly could be prosecuted for any classified information that he shared, when he didn't have the authority to declassify information and a group of people working hard to cover up how he wasn't doing so under the relevant rules.
What a great way to spread disinformation to America's enemies -- just tell Trump what you want them to know.
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Old 11th November 2020, 07:03 AM   #796
eerok
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
He did go to Wharton. He attended the Wharton School which is part of the U of Pennsylvania where he received an undergraduate degree in economics. What he likes people to infer... and often implies... is that he earned the much more prestigious Wharton MBA Business degree.
Yes, that's what I meant.
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Old 11th November 2020, 07:22 AM   #797
Vixen
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
For the folks who claim it is obvious that the election is mired by extensive fraud, they are really working hard to find any.

I am going to call, though, and report my mom.

It's absolutely a case of voter fraud. I could use the money.
Not enough. You have to testify and secure a conviction in court.
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Old 11th November 2020, 07:31 AM   #798
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There may need to be a new thread: Trump's Coup d'état.

Quote:
Anthony Tata – a retired army brigadier general, novelist and Fox News commentator who called Barack Obama a “terrorist leader” – has taken control of the Pentagon’s policy department, following the resignation of the acting undersecretary of defence for policy, James Anderson.

Tata had been unable to win Senate confirmation after old tweets surfaced in which he expressed virulent Islamophobic views.

Meanwhile, Kash Patel – a former Republican congressional aide who played a lead role in a campaign to discredit the investigation into Russian election meddling – has been made chief of staff to the new defence secretary, Chris Miller.

The undersecretary of defence for intelligence, Vice Admiral Joseph Kernan, a retired navy Seal, was also reported to have resigned on Tuesday, and was replaced by Ezra Cohen-Watnick, a former aide to Michael Flynn, Trump’s first national security adviser who pleaded guilty to perjury.

<snip> Democrats raised the alarm over the wave of staff changes at the Pentagon.

“It is hard to overstate just how dangerous high-level turnover at the department of defence is during a period of presidential transition,” wrote Adam Smith, the chairman of the House armed services committee, adding that the development “should alarm all Americans”.

“If this is the beginning of a trend – the president either firing or forcing out national security professionals in order to replace them with people perceived as more loyal to him – then the next 70 days will be precarious at best and downright dangerous at worst.”
So Espers' resignation/termination and replacement was unprecedented insofar it was done during the transition period and the fact of Biden's office being denied transition handover protocols. together with Pompeo declaring Trump's 'second administration' and 'extremists' [GUARDIAN] being set up in key positions could be an indicator of the shape of things to come...?


So now Midnight Cowboy Jon Voight has joined in saying Trump supporters should fight as though it was their last fight to keep him in.

The long-standing rifts and conflicts about to come to a head?
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Old 11th November 2020, 07:48 AM   #799
Foster Zygote
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Note:




Bah!
It's like the fine print in a mailer from a local car dealership.

"A set of steak knives??? You promised me a brand-new Corvette!!!"

"Sir, read the fine print."
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Old 11th November 2020, 07:48 AM   #800
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Another possibility: Trump's moles are there to destroy evidence of Trump's treasonous behavior.
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