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Old 19th July 2017, 08:14 PM   #121
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Anyway, the thread title is disappointing. I have a French Press. These are all *terrible* filter ideas.

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Old 19th July 2017, 09:50 PM   #122
McHrozni
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
The machine that produces colonists is smaller, lighter, and less resource-consuming than the colonists it produces? How does that work?
The exact same way a bag of seeds is smaller than the forest it produced them.

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In biological life, seeds (and spores, embryos, etc.) are smaller than the organisms they develop into. But none accomplishes that without the support of an ongoing biosphere.
Biosphere at destination is a prerequesite to send colonists somewhere anyway.

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Unfortunately there's nothing stopping a Myriadnikov type UB-40 civilization, which by definition eats Kardashev type II civilizations for breakfast, from eating that Kardashev type II civilization for breakfast before it ever gets the chance to launch any colony ships. What a pity.

If we can invent any pre-existing scenario we want, regardless of reality (as long as someone's given it a name), we can reach any conclusion we want as well. But to what point?
You could say all the nonesense you want. A better thing would be, of course, to inform yourself on what the Kardashev scale is and reply to that in an intellectual way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale

I'll also add the costs of the project would not be prohibitive to a Kardashev I level civiliation - something like 5% of GDP per year for 20 years. Significant, but far from prohibitive.

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Systems that can last for decades without replacement, and with regular maintenance, are at least possible. You're expecting either complex systems to run for millennia instead, or a hibernating space ruin older than the Parthenon to start up and work perfectly when it reaches its destination.

It seems far more likely to me that a system that can run for millennia* must be one that can rebuild any and every part of itself along the way except for its fuel supply. This would make it capable of self-replication (from material stores and/or consuming itself) along the way, not just at the destination. At any given moment the current ship(s) would have the same relationship to the mission as a human crew member would have to the ship, which is also the same relationship that an epithelial cell of the crew member has to the crew member. (One wonders which of those an alien discovering the mission would attempt to make contact with first.) In any case it could not be a simple single-minded entity and still be intelligent and adaptable enough to master the resources of the system it arrives at. So, non-preservation of purpose under evolutionary adaptation remains an effective filter.
Why would it need to be intelligent? Plants aren't intelligent and they manage to repair and even regenerate damaged parts quite well, a whole lot better than intelligent animals can in fact.

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Old 19th July 2017, 09:56 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
You may as well - at the moment* - posit that we will find a way around having to travel under the speed of light.
Sure, one could do that. But since Earth hasn't been colonized by spacefaring aliens travelling at speeds faster than light, existence of such possibilities makes for a rather bad great filter, doesn't it?

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My very personal view, based on as solid a base as your claims are, is that self-replicating machines as you describe are not possible. And I would point to the fact we see no evidence in the universe that they do exist is evidence they don't exist After all if your type of self-replicators can't be built it would be an answer to what the "great filter" is.
Saying that something that appeared spontaneously when the conditions were right can't be built artificially is just a fancy way of saying "God said so, STFU!!1"

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Old 20th July 2017, 12:53 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
The first organism on earth existed without the support of any biosphere at all, and yet it produced and output that is the entire biosphere, not just today but for all of life's history on earth. How many orders of magnitude greater in mass is the product of that first organism than the mass of that first organism? 37?
But that is not analogous to the self replicators describe by some.
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Old 20th July 2017, 01:32 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
But that is not analogous to the self replicators describe by some.
Why not?

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Old 20th July 2017, 02:12 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
I'm looking for Great Filter possibilities. Who has a real good "great filter"?
God loves us because Jesus, and the rest of the universe can suck it.

Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
Hopefully our owner will purchase the Sim Universe expansion pack soon.
If it's anything like our reality, it will be a rushed DLC, meaning that when the "aliens" arrive, it will be in a reskinned Apollo capsule and they'll look suspiciously like us, but with tattoo's and strangely coloured eyes. They will undoubtedly speak English with american accents.
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