ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Affordable Care Act , AHCA , donald trump , health care issues , health insurance issues , obamacare , Trumpcare

Reply
Old 21st July 2017, 12:40 PM   #401
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 38,292
Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
But politicians who know nothing at all about how insurance works, how to manage and mitigate risk, how to adapt to moral hazard and adverse selection, and how to ensure a solvent operation... should NOT be trying to design insurance. There's a reason there's an entire testing and oversight body for actuaries. It's actually complicated!
But no one knows that, I mean even the president didn't know that when he got elected, how are normal people supposed to grapple with such unknowable things when the most competent male politician in the US can't?
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st July 2017, 12:51 PM   #402
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,210
Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
.....
So long as they wish to maintain some element of private insurance, they should be seeking expertise from the National Association of Insurance Commissioners, The American Medical Association, and the American Academy of Actuaries to make sure that what they design is sustainable and actually works.
.....
What makes you think they didn't? The ACA was adapted from a functioning system that Massachusetts developed from proposals by conservative think tanks. Congress held close to a year of public hearings with extensive input from numerous sources. But part of the plan was that all states would expand Medicaid, and Congress -- which quickly became a Republican Congress -- would appropriate enough money to pay subsidies to customers and insurance companies. The ACA could have been successful if it had been supported and refined.
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st July 2017, 12:54 PM   #403
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 38,292
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
What makes you think they didn't? The ACA was adapted from a functioning system that Massachusetts developed from proposals by conservative think tanks. Congress held close to a year of public hearings with extensive input from numerous sources. But part of the plan was that all states would expand Medicaid, and Congress -- which quickly became a Republican Congress -- would appropriate enough money to pay subsidies to customers and insurance companies. The ACA could have been successful if it had been supported and refined.
But how is making it succeed going to win the republican party any victories, they were elected and took control of congress with the mandate to destroy obamacare, not fix the healthcare system. That is what they have been about for the past 8 years.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st July 2017, 12:59 PM   #404
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,210
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
But how is making it succeed going to win the republican party any victories, they were elected and took control of congress with the mandate to destroy obamacare, not fix the healthcare system. That is what they have been about for the past 8 years.
The Republicans certainly want to kill it. I was just responding to the point that politicians need input from insurance companies etc. The people who designed the ACA did get it.
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st July 2017, 01:01 PM   #405
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 38,292
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The Republicans certainly want to kill it. I was just responding to the point that politicians need input from insurance companies etc. The people who designed the ACA did get it.
But Emily has bought far to many of the republicans lies to ever accept facts like that.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st July 2017, 03:44 PM   #406
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,798
More trouble for BCRA.

Quote:
The Senate would likely need 60 votes to overcome Democratic opposition and pass key portions of the GOP health care bill under the chamber’s rules, a blow to both the plan’s policy and its political fortunes unless Senate Republicans are willing to break decades of precedent.

The Senate’s so-called “Byrd Rule” is designed to make sure that policies passed under “budget reconciliation” — which allows legislation to advance with only 51 votes instead of the usual 60 needed to get past a filibuster — directly affect the federal budget, either by decreasing spending or increasing revenue. (Vox has explained the Byrd Rule in great detail.)

The findings of the Senate parliamentarian, who evaluates whether policies included in bills meant to pass through reconciliation comply with the Senate rules, were posted online late Friday afternoon and sent out by Democratic ranking member Sen. Bernie Sanders’s office. A Senate Republican aide noted that the parliamentarian reviewed a draft version of the bill, and the legislation could still be changed.

They are a critical blow to Republicans’ hopes of repealing and replacing Obamacare. Their plan is already short on votes, but Friday’s news could make it even more difficult for Senate leaders to sway their holdouts.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st July 2017, 11:07 PM   #407
Tony Stark
Philosopher
 
Tony Stark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 9,385
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
I knew that lots of stuff they had in there did not comply with the Byrd Rule. What I wonder is how Mitch McConnell didn't though. He's been a Senator for as long as the Byrd Rule has existed.

Republicans are going to have to choose between voting for a bill that would result in taxpayer money going to abortions or voting no. Couldn't have happened to more deserving people.

I like how Bernie Sanders waited until they wasted as much time as possible and then dropped this on the Friday before they vote.

There are some more that haven't been ruled on yet:

Quote:
Waivers for State Innovation (Essential Health Benefits): This section amends Sec. 1332 of the ACA to allow states to waive age rating, essential health benefits, and pre-existing condition requirements so long as their proposal does not increase the federal deficit. (Sec.207)

Small Business Health Plans: This section would allow small businesses to establish “association health plans” that could be sold across state lines. For regulatory purposes, these plans would be treated as part of the large group market and thus would be exempt from many ACA requirements such as covering essential health benefits. (Sec. 139)

Change in Permissible Age Variation in Health Insurance Premium Rates (“Age Tax”): This section allows insurers to charge older Americans at least five times more than what they charge younger individuals. (Sec. 204)

Flexible Block Grant Option for States: This section allows states the option to receive a lump sum Medicaid “block grant” instead of the per capita cap payments. (Sec. 134)
https://www.budget.senate.gov/imo/me....21[1].pdf


And if McConnell tries to buy individual Senators with provisions for specific states it will be challenged and ruled to be against Senate rules.

Quote:
BURLINGTON, Vt., July 21 – U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) issued the following statement Friday after the Senate parliamentarian determined that the "Buffalo Bailout," a provision of the Republican health care bill specifically targeting New York state, is in violation of Senate reconciliation rules:

"Today, the Senate parliamentarian made a determination that at least a dozen provisions in the disastrous Trump-McConnell “health care” bill are in violation of Senate rules and cannot be included in this bill without 60 votes. One of these provisions is the “Buffalo Bailout” that was inserted into this bill in order to secure the vote of a tiny-handful of Republican representatives from upstate New York. This is a very important ruling. What this ruling means is that side deals which benefit individual states will most likely be ruled in violation of Senate rules. As the ranking member of the Budget Committee, I will challenge any one of these state-specific provisions. We need legislation which improves the lives of people in all 50 states, not legislation which is geared to obtaining the vote of this or that Republican senator."
https://www.budget.senate.gov/rankin...ividual-states
__________________
"Make our planet great again"
-French President Emmanuel Macron

Last edited by Tony Stark; 21st July 2017 at 11:10 PM.
Tony Stark is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:56 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.