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Tags Brilliant Light Power , free energy , Randell Mills

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Old 21st July 2017, 09:36 AM   #2641
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
All of which is as verifiable as steorns claim of a self running device going on for weeks, and THEM at least went as far as having some commercial steps taken, google monkey head face steorn. They even had people posing for photo showing asembky.
CIHT technology was extensively validated by people like battery specialists (unlike Steorn). Check out the bottom part of the validation reports section on BLP's website.
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Old 21st July 2017, 09:41 AM   #2642
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
Neither of those were called CIHT cells. They preceded CIHT. The first one mentioned above, around 1991 , was in the days Thermacore was involved. It involved aqueous solution and has been covered here previously. The second one mentioned above, in 2008, involved nickel powder and produced extreme heat pulses of 50 Kw, but that was not continuous power.
I think anyone would agree that they are basically the same as the CIHT cell even if Mills hadn't used the term yet.

http://newenergytimes.com/v2/archives/fic/F/F199201.PDF

Mills is clearly claiming to have a working "electrochemical power cell" as early as 1989.

This is clearly a description of an "electrochemical power cell", imo:
Quote:
Each CIHT cell comprises a positive electrode, the cathode, a negative electrode, the anode, and an electrolyte that also serves as a source of reactants to form Hydrinos.
https://brilliantlightpower.com/ciht-cell/

The electrolyte being liquid, or in paste form on a plate, isn't much of a difference, imo.

In the above issue of Jan 1992, these electrochemical cells are fully functional and ready to go, save for some heat exchanger piping.

We see the same tired old claims all the way along.
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Old 21st July 2017, 09:42 AM   #2643
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
CIHT technology was extensively validated by people like battery specialists (unlike Steorn). Check out the bottom part of the validation reports section on BLP's website.
Yes, it was "validated" many years ago, as is everything Mills claims.

Mills always has validations, but never working products.

Must drive him crazy to know that his devices work, but never make it to the real world.
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Old 21st July 2017, 09:50 AM   #2644
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BLP has used all sorts of names and all sorts of device diagrams over the years.
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Old 21st July 2017, 10:20 AM   #2645
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
It's in some of the validation reports and also in the May 2017 paper.
No, I meant something reliable that's been replicated.

As Aepervius pointed out, what you're doing is no better than citing the Bible to prove the Bible is true.

Originally Posted by markie View Post
CIHT technology was extensively validated
That's a bald faced lie. Unless you've recently received a traumatic head injury that made you forget all the past discussions you've participated in on those validation claims, you know you're lying.

Besides, those claims having been validated would be WORSE for Mills, because it would be yet another viable technology the incompetent dingbat has failed to capitalize.

Last edited by halleyscomet; 21st July 2017 at 10:24 AM.
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Old 21st July 2017, 11:08 AM   #2646
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
The molten salt was heated resistively. The CIHT cell output was electricity. Over an order of magnitude more electricity out than in, operating for weeks, far beyond measurement errors, especially considering the controls produced no excess electricity. You are correct that the cells would produce only milliwatts of power (per litre of molten salts), but milliwatts can be very accurately measured.
And these measurements were published where please? With protocols and procedures along with measurement calibration?

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Old 21st July 2017, 11:09 AM   #2647
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
It's in some of the validation reports and also in the May 2017 paper.
Please cite the actual source
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Old 21st July 2017, 11:56 AM   #2648
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
The molten salt was heated resistively. The CIHT cell output was electricity. Over an order of magnitude more electricity out than in, operating for weeks, far beyond measurement errors, especially considering the controls produced no excess electricity. You are correct that the cells would produce only milliwatts of power (per litre of molten salts), but milliwatts can be very accurately measured.
I am having trouble making sense of this. Are you claiming that they input microwatts of power and got out milliwatts as a result and did this for weeks?

Wouldn't some additional input power be required to compensate for heat loss to keep the salt molten? Any mistakes in accounting for that would invalidate the results.

I suspect the true story is that watts of electricity go in and milliwatts of electricity come out along with some inaccurately measured amount of heat. Unless you account for every energy input and output there is no proof of an energy gain.

Also, how carefully did they check for conventional chemical reactions? A motorcycle battery is about a liter in volume and can also continuously produce milliwatts of power for months at a far lower cost than a CIHT cell.

Last edited by jrhowell; 21st July 2017 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 21st July 2017, 07:26 PM   #2649
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Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
I am having trouble making sense of this. Are you claiming that they input microwatts of power and got out milliwatts as a result and did this for weeks?

Wouldn't some additional input power be required to compensate for heat loss to keep the salt molten? Any mistakes in accounting for that would invalidate the results.

I suspect the true story is that watts of electricity go in and milliwatts of electricity come out along with some inaccurately measured amount of heat. Unless you account for every energy input and output there is no proof of an energy gain.

Also, how carefully did they check for conventional chemical reactions? A motorcycle battery is about a liter in volume and can also continuously produce milliwatts of power for months at a far lower cost than a CIHT cell.
Those questions all give this too much credit. Everything is simply faked is most likely.
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Old 21st July 2017, 07:35 PM   #2650
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
If his claims are true then he is grotesquely incompetent as a businessman. He's supposedly had the makings of multiple viable products for decades yet he keeps refusing to commercialize ANY of them because of a constant hunt for one more slight improvement.

That's not how you run a business. That's how you run an investment con.
So he's good at what he does.
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Old 21st July 2017, 08:17 PM   #2651
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Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger View Post
So he's good at what he does.
Given how much money he's acquired, over what can only be called, a truly extended period of time, he may well go down in history as one of the best, possibly only rivaled by Bernie Madoff himself.
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Old Yesterday, 12:09 AM   #2652
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
The molten salt was heated resistively. The CIHT cell output was electricity. Over an order of magnitude more electricity out than in, operating for weeks, far beyond measurement errors, especially considering the controls produced no excess electricity. You are correct that the cells would produce only milliwatts of power (per litre of molten salts), but milliwatts can be very accurately measured.
That sounds awesome. Where can I buy one?
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Old Yesterday, 12:41 AM   #2653
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
The molten salt was heated resistively. The CIHT cell output was electricity. Over an order of magnitude more electricity out than in, operating for weeks, far beyond measurement errors, especially considering the controls produced no excess electricity. You are correct that the cells would produce only milliwatts of power (per litre of molten salts), but milliwatts can be very accurately measured.
So, you are saying Mills has a fully functional energy producing device (I presume the excess power comes AFTER it keeps its own salt melted) but is NOT sharing it with the world?
Because, no matter how small the amount is, this is enough to produce and solve the worlds energy crisis here and now.

So rather than an inveterate liar and scammer he really is a total greedy capitalist willing to let millions die that he could have saved just so he can make MORE money later down the line?
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Old Yesterday, 12:46 AM   #2654
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
CIHT technology was extensively validated by people like battery specialists (unlike Steorn). Check out the bottom part of the validation reports section on BLP's website.
CIHT tech has as much independent validation than steorn had or rossi has. See this is the problem when you hold tight on the conduction of a test - or have your friend/colleague/contracted folk do the test: the test becomes nigh worthless for such a discussion. ... And is pretty much self referential scientifically (the bible to prove the bible - the non independent test to prove that you have got what you have - both worthless).

Last edited by Aepervius; Yesterday at 12:51 AM.
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Old Yesterday, 01:16 AM   #2655
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
That sounds awesome. Where can I buy one?
On the stall next to the stall selling Brooklyn Bridges.
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Old Yesterday, 01:17 AM   #2656
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As I've always said if he could just engineer out that "ignition" energy he'll be quids in!
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Old Yesterday, 06:25 AM   #2657
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
You know, speaking as a physicist, I find this all to be comedy gold. If I were also an economist, of course, I'd probably find it even funnier that somebody who claims to have an essentially unlimited source of essentially free energy is choosing not to derive profit from it yet because he feels that the conversion efficiency of that unlimited energy source is not as high as it could be.

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Particularly considering that they were going to dump 75% of the energy produced as waste heat while taking only the 25% or so EMR as input of the photovoltaics, with maybe 30-42% efficiency themselves, at best. Just going with the heat and even just a 33% heat engine efficiency (giving 25% total) is far more "optimal" than the less than 12% total they could do, at best, the other way. Funny how efficiency doesn't seem to be a concern for the configuration they are (or were) pursuing, but now becomes a concern when the are starting with 3x the produced energy as before and using methods that can have twice the transfer efficiency as before.
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Old Yesterday, 09:54 PM   #2658
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Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
I am having trouble making sense of this. Are you claiming that they input microwatts of power and got out milliwatts as a result and did this for weeks?
It depended on the particular cell. Some cells would generate around 2 times the energy input, others would generate 1000. Mostly dependent on the anode material. They would charge the cell until it reached a particular voltage, then discharge the cell. Later iterations required almost no charging.

Quote:
Wouldn't some additional input power be required to compensate for heat loss to keep the salt molten? Any mistakes in accounting for that would invalidate the results.
Yes keeping the salt molten at about 450 C required additional, separate power. Only one of the validation reports got into particular details of this. With one inch of insulation, the cell would lose 40W of heat. (Two inches it would lose about 25W, etc.) Thus I infer that about 40W of power was fed to the resistor to keep the molten salt at temperature, whether or not the cell was operating. But this was not made explicit as far as I could see.

Quote:
I suspect the true story is that watts of electricity go in and milliwatts of electricity come out along with some inaccurately measured amount of heat. Unless you account for every energy input and output there is no proof of an energy gain.
One of the validators brought up the possibility that in addition to the electrodes, the heat of the molten salt might be contributing in a small way to water dissociating to H2 and O2, and so was not independent of the power fed to the electrodes. BLP offered detailed reason why this was not so (and seemed to satisfy the validator), but the specifics were not disclosed in the paper.

See https://brilliantlightpower.com/wp-c...umacReport.pdf

page 7 for details if you wish.

Quote:
Also, how carefully did they check for conventional chemical reactions? A motorcycle battery is about a liter in volume and can also continuously produce milliwatts of power for months at a far lower cost than a CIHT cell.
Apparently very carefully. Most of the six validation papers seen at the bottom of
https://brilliantlightpower.com/validation-reports/ make mention of this.
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Old Yesterday, 09:56 PM   #2659
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
That sounds awesome. Where can I buy one?
It wasn't awesome enough to be commercially viable, sorry.
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Old Yesterday, 10:03 PM   #2660
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
So, you are saying Mills has a fully functional energy producing device (I presume the excess power comes AFTER it keeps its own salt melted) but is NOT sharing it with the world?
Because, no matter how small the amount is, this is enough to produce and solve the worlds energy crisis here and now.
As far as I know, it was never developed to the point where the power output exceeded the energy required to heat the salt. But I may be mistaken on that.
They made great strides over a few years on the CIHT cell, but not enough to make a viable commercial device.
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Old Yesterday, 10:16 PM   #2661
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
Particularly considering that they were going to dump 75% of the energy produced as waste heat while taking only the 25% or so EMR as input of the photovoltaics, with maybe 30-42% efficiency themselves, at best. Just going with the heat and even just a 33% heat engine efficiency (giving 25% total) is far more "optimal" than the less than 12% total they could do, at best, the other way. Funny how efficiency doesn't seem to be a concern for the configuration they are (or were) pursuing, but now becomes a concern when the are starting with 3x the produced energy as before and using methods that can have twice the transfer efficiency as before.
As I see it, Mills is into elegance of solution over energy efficiency of solution. That is why, in part, he wanted photovoltaic so much. But that front is delayed. In the meantime he is making very sure the heat engine front is as elegant as possible, and that elegance appears to be involving greater efficiencies as well. I can't wait to see what he has in store.
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Old Yesterday, 10:16 PM   #2662
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
That sounds awesome. Where can I buy one?
Originally Posted by markie View Post
It wasn't awesome enough to be commercially viable, sorry.
This is funny. Here we have one buyer in a tiny corner of the internet. Multiply that one buyer by whatever percentage of ~7 billion people you like and what you have is a MARKET.

My uninformed guess is that Mills has never done a serious market analysis.
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Old Yesterday, 10:40 PM   #2663
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
As far as I know, it was never developed to the point where the power output exceeded the energy required to heat the salt. But I may be mistaken on that.
They made great strides over a few years on the CIHT cell, but not enough to make a viable commercial device.
But if it's power output is less than needed to heat the salt it produces no net energy.

Which brings us right back to the 'dishonest scammer'
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Old Today, 01:13 AM   #2664
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
Thus I infer that about 40W of power was fed to the resistor to keep the molten salt at temperature, whether or not the cell was operating. But this was not made explicit as far as I could see.
So you put 40.0001W of electricity in and get 0.001W of electricity out along with approximately 40W of waste heat. I can see why the CIHT wasn't considered to be a commercially viable product!

----

This makes me wonder if perhaps someone said to Mills, "You know, you would get more electricity out if you just fed the 40W into a light bulb and stuck a photocell in front of it."

Last edited by jrhowell; Today at 01:26 AM.
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Old Today, 02:36 AM   #2665
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Actually what he currently claims that IF you have molten salts and input 1mW of electricity you get out 10mW but ignores that this device needs 40W of energy to just melt the salts. So this device consumes about 40W.
That's like saying that an internal combustion engine creates energy from the spark used to ignite the fuel yet ignoring the energy needed to create the fuel in the first place.
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Old Today, 04:13 AM   #2666
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
As I see it, Mills is into elegance of solution over energy efficiency of solution.
Then he's an idiot, and anyone investing in him is pouring money down the drain; even if his theories were right, he'd never produce a commercial device because he's always be trying to make it more "elegant" even if it were 99% efficient. Economically, that's grossly incompetent.

Originally Posted by markie View Post
That is why, in part, he wanted photovoltaic so much. But that front is delayed.
Despite being a solved problem. Funny how it's always the solved problems that Mills blames somebody else for not being able to solve.


Originally Posted by markie View Post
I can't wait to see what he has in store.
Sadly, waiting is all you'll get to do.

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