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Old 4th December 2017, 06:57 AM   #801
Gamolon
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Originally Posted by Ziggi View Post
to call me a liar -
Ziggi,

Below is an excerpt from the "Please Help Donate" (http://aneta.org/911experiments_com/...nate/index.htm).

Quote:
Money has been raise an tests have begun by independent lab technicians.
Was it a lie that independent lab technicians had started testing at that point? The above excerpt was added between 1/12/2014 when the donation went over the $5000 mark and a dated update noted as 6/15/2015 correct?
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Old 4th December 2017, 07:25 AM   #802
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Originally Posted by Ziggi View Post
... Talboo's blog and email disappear for a day or two ...

... to call me a liar ...
Ziggi cannot keep from lying even on the small and irrelevant details. "A day or two"? Really? You could have said "a week or so", that would have been reasonably close to the facts, order of magnitude wise. But "1 or 2 days" is just FALSE by too much of a factor to be brushed aside as "rough guess" or "you get the point".
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Old 4th December 2017, 08:03 AM   #803
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Ziggi cannot keep from lying even on the small and irrelevant details. "A day or two"? Really? You could have said "a week or so", that would have been reasonably close to the facts, order of magnitude wise. But "1 or 2 days" is just FALSE by too much of a factor to be brushed aside as "rough guess" or "you get the point".
The lack of self-awareness is truly astounding. He's so many years into this laughable fraud that he probably can't even remember what Mark was supposed to do at the outset or the many, many lies he and Mark have told about what Mark has been doing all these years.

His feigned indignation is quite rich.
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Old 4th December 2017, 08:31 AM   #804
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Originally Posted by Ziggi View Post
I suppose Chris will have to say he also took that out of context, no sorry, also did not remember correctly...things Millette said in private emails to him...that he also never revealed. Yep, Chris never actually showed Millette´s emails, he just told the forum what was allegedly said there.

When he cannot be trusted to report conversations with the guy he hired to debunk Farrer et al, the extent of his misrepresentation of comments by Farrer et al are not at all surprising.

Now was rev. Mohr lying about Millette studying the iron sphere evidence by Harrit et al, or was Millette in fact doing this research? What were his findings? Are those the true reason Millette abandoned the project and never published anything? Where are those emails?
Oh the irony!

Hey Ziggi, how about practicing what you preach Rev. Zugam?
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Old 4th December 2017, 10:11 AM   #805
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Originally Posted by Ziggi View Post
Maybe you guys can get some of that back with more Jerry Springer show style antics? Maybe you can bring Honey Boo Boo on stage to call me a liar - surely that would entice me to waste a few days on the forum to bring in some numbers, right?

You boys and girls are pathetic.
I think it might be more helpful if you or anyone could just provide the slightest shred of evidence Basile is actually doing anything.
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Old 4th December 2017, 10:52 AM   #806
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https://projects.propublica.org/nonp...ions/261532493

Gage has taken in millions, did he fail to donate to the study of fantasy thermite.


Originally Posted by Ziggi View Post
Oh how sad and desperate ...
Yes, you can't produce evidence steel on 9/11 was damaged by thermite. Which is proof the study by Mark Basile is fraud. No damage to steel means no thermite was used. No rational studies on WTC dust found thermite.

16 years of lies about thermite. Okay, Jones made up thermite four years after 9/11. Pathetic thermite lie by Jones fooled you and Mark Basile.
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Last edited by beachnut; 4th December 2017 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 4th December 2017, 11:45 AM   #807
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Originally Posted by Gamolon View Post
Oh the irony!
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Old 9th December 2017, 10:58 AM   #808
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
https://projects.propublica.org/nonp...ions/261532493

Gage has taken in millions, did he fail to donate to the study of fantasy thermite.



Yes, you can't produce evidence steel on 9/11 was damaged by thermite. Which is proof the study by Mark Basile is fraud. No damage to steel means no thermite was used. No rational studies on WTC dust found thermite.

16 years of lies about thermite. Okay, Jones made up thermite four years after 9/11. Pathetic thermite lie by Jones fooled you and Mark Basile.
For me I can't wait to see the first photos of steel deformed under load by thermite cutting.
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Old 7th January 2018, 04:01 AM   #809
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Here is a thought.

If Mark Basil didn't have any dust and I'm not talking about the type you could buy with a few thousand dollar.

Would Jones or Harrit donate their dust and have it sent to an independent lab?

Perhaps Ziggy could go down that route in order to make sure that people get what they paid for.
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Old 7th January 2018, 09:00 AM   #810
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Originally Posted by Spanx View Post
Here is a thought.

If Mark Basil didn't have any dust and I'm not talking about the type you could buy with a few thousand dollar.

Would Jones or Harrit donate their dust and have it sent to an independent lab?

Perhaps Ziggy could go down that route in order to make sure that people get what they paid for.
Won't work. "They" will swap the samples and nothing will be found(except paint). It's already been tried.

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Old 7th January 2018, 01:07 PM   #811
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Oh, he does have dust - in 2014, the last time we saw anything from him, he showed micrographs of red/gray chips - the same he already showed in 2010. It's 2018 now.

Perhaps he is waiting, hoping that the samples go bad such that he at least can get an "inconclusive" verdict, which would allow him to not declare Harrit&Jones the fraud that that they are (and thus admit that he was complete fool, believing in the fraud for so very long). But that won't work: The usual pigments - red hematite, titanium dioxide, along with the usual fillers such as kaolin and silica, are perfectly stable, inert, and will maintain their chemistry and morphology for decades, if not centuries to come. The organic binders, such as linseed-oil, epoxy or other resins, do age, but retain their essential properties, such as the defining organic groups, for a very long time, too: Think of oil paintings that are hundreds of years old. They turn dark over time, but the oil finish is still oil finish, and every bit of such old paint is still amenable to forensic identification.
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Old 8th January 2018, 12:23 AM   #812
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What a gyp.
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Old 30th January 2018, 04:53 PM   #813
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The months just march by.................
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Old 30th January 2018, 05:10 PM   #814
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It's almost February 2018, the latest deadline Ziggi announced. Surely the last two months of time have allowed Mark Basile the opportunity to do the weekend's worth of work he inexplicably failed to do in the prior 46 months... I suppose we should all brace ourselves for tremendous news! Right, Ziggi? You ready to blow us away with an incredible progress report? (LOL--just kidding; I don't expect an actual progress or even a response.)

Keep up the good work, Ziggi Zuggam and Mark Basile. Don't forget to set a new false deadline for progress once March comes; otherwise, I won't know when to check back in to laugh at you.

Last edited by benthamitemetric; 30th January 2018 at 05:20 PM.
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Old 1st February 2018, 06:49 PM   #815
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If the red/gray chips are paint, it was a wild ride while it lasted.
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Old 1st February 2018, 08:43 PM   #816
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
If the red/gray chips are paint, it was a wild ride while it lasted.
MicahJava, are you coming around? I saw you actually posting against the grain on the 911Truth subreddit too. It’d be interesting to hear what made you redirect your skepticism. You will likely be accused of being a shill now, by the way. It’s only a matter of time till you join us. I can ask my superiors if they can start cutting you checks too.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 02:15 AM   #817
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
If the red/gray chips are paint, it was a wild ride total waste of time and money levelling an unjust accusation at a totally innocent group of people while it lasted.
FTFY. I think we've all noted that attempting to pervert the course of justice is your idea of fun.

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Old 2nd February 2018, 09:24 AM   #818
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
If the red/gray chips are paint, it was a wild ride while it lasted.
No, not really.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 10:33 PM   #819
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
If the red/gray chips are paint, it was a wild ride while it lasted.
Wild Ride?

Yeah disrespecting the 3 000 people murdered that day and their families while ripping gullible truthers off to the tune of 5 thousand dollars is quite the wild ride.
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Old 6th February 2018, 05:11 AM   #820
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Mark Basile the master Of Fake Science.
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Old 6th February 2018, 05:46 AM   #821
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
If the red/gray chips are paint, it was a wild ride while it lasted.
Driving down the road with a wheel missing will also give you "a wild ride", and one that's equally stupid and pointless.
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Old 6th February 2018, 07:45 AM   #822
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With the Eagles' victory on Sunday, it seems appropriate to note that *time keeps on slipping, slipping, slipping, into the future...*

That is all. Carry on preparing your bombshell February report, Ziggi Zuggam and Mark Basile.
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Old 15th February 2018, 10:09 AM   #823
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Just two weeks left in February. Since Ziggi Zugam and Mark Basile are both completely reliable, competent and trustworthy individuals, it's now only a matter of days before Ziggi keeps his promise and provides us with a major update!

How's it coming, Ziggi? Did you and Mark Basile make better use of the last two months than you had the previous 46 months?

I, for one, cannot wait for your major update this month.
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:18 PM   #824
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Originally Posted by benthamitemetric View Post
I, for one, cannot wait for your major update this month.
Nothing will come because the only ones asking(or care) are the nay-say'rs. The followers looking for the results are no longer, the rubes were milked and they have moved on.
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Old 24th February 2018, 01:53 PM   #825
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This post from December 2nd, 2017, quoting a Ziggi blog post from December 1st:
Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
...
Edit2: New post:
According to chemist Mark Basile, he is still working on this project and we can expect some good news soon. Look for a MAJOR update in February 2018.
http://911debunkers.blogspot.com/201...dy-update.html
The "major" update in February is upon us:
Mark Basile Update - Raman Spectroscopy
It informs us that Basile has completely broken his promises to send specimens to independent labs to perform a suite of tests - and that the "major" update is again postponed, by another two months or so (oh, and it's no longer "major"):
Originally Posted by Ziggi Zugam
Chemist[1] Mark Basile has completed his own Raman spectroscopy study on red/gray chips and other materials, including paint. He is currently writing up the data and the report will be made publicly available soon - how soon depends on whether it will simply be posted as a publicly available PDF file, or published in a journal.

Raman spectroscopy is an alternative way to get data similar to the much hyped[2] FTIR data in the failed[3] Millette report:
Raman spectroscopy offers several advantages for microscopic analysis. Since it is a scattering technique, specimens do not need to be fixed or sectioned. Raman spectra can be collected from a very small volume (< 1 µm in diameter); these spectra allow the identification of species present in that volume. Water does not generally interfere with Raman spectral analysis. Thus, Raman spectroscopy is suitable for the microscopic examination of minerals, materials such as polymers and ceramics, cells, proteins and forensic trace evidence
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raman_spectroscopy
Look for our next update in April 2018, and news about the promised independent tests.
I annoted the quote to point out three obvious lies - Ziggi simply does not have in him to ever write publicly without blatantly lying:
[1] Mark Basile is not a chemist.
[2] No one ever hyped Millette's FTIR results.
[3] Millette's report has not failed in any way, shape or form.

I suspect Ziggi also lies about the following (directly, or by insinuation):
4) The "paint" Basile allegedly tested has no value towards examination of WTC primer
5) Basile likely is currently procrasttinating on the write-up
6) Basile will not publish any data "soon"
7) Basile has nothing worthy of a scientific journal
8) Raman spectroscopy has no objective absolute advantages over FTIR for the purposes of this study
9) Basile has not involved any independent lab yet

I feel it's necessary top point out at this time that Zugam provides absolutely ZERO evidence that Basile is doing ANY work AT ALL, or has been doing any work at all at any point in time since August 2014. In fact, he might as well have been dead for three years - Zugam's body of work is consistent with that conclusion. It could all be a long train of nothing but lies, gone on over many years, judging from the totality of evidence provided (which is none whatsoever).

These people have lost all sense of shame.
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Old 24th February 2018, 06:27 PM   #826
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Is a backfire that I heard?

Quote:
For information on the the first peer-reviewed paper of the WTC dust, which claims that active thermitic material was found in it, and the recent attempt that claimed it could not replicate the results of the experiments, but really didn't try to replicate the experiments, go here:

http://aneta.org/markbasile_org/study/

If you feel like chipping in a couple of bucks for the new, single-blind study, go here:

http://aneta.org/markbasile_org/donation/index.htm
http://911debunkers.blogspot.com/201...basile-to.html


And man, such a déjŕ vu...
Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
Doesn't anyone else have this feeling about these promises? https://www.zazzle.co.nz/keeping_an_...29174903737235
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Old 25th February 2018, 08:21 AM   #827
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I look forward to hearing whether or not Mark Basile’s research supports the Harrit et al 2009 Bentham paper.

If his upcoming work proves lacking in scientific credibility his story will be finally over.

Last edited by Criteria; 25th February 2018 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 25th February 2018, 10:20 AM   #828
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Mark Basile's delusion of thermite

There is no thermite damage to WTC steel. A study inspired by paranoid insanity of a fringe few Dr Jones Kool-Aid fanatics.

It does not matter what Mark Basile finds, it has nothing to do with the acts of 19 murderers. 19 terrorists, like 9/11 truth followers, fooled by old delusional men.
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Old 25th February 2018, 11:06 AM   #829
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
I look forward to hearing whether or not Mark Basile’s research supports the Harrit et al 2009 Bentham paper.

If his upcoming work proves lacking in scientific credibility his story will be finally over.
The story never started.
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Old 25th February 2018, 11:19 AM   #830
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
I look forward to hearing whether or not Mark Basile’s research supports the Harrit et al 2009 Bentham paper. ...
I am not sure what you mean by that. The Harrit et al 2009 Bentham paper (its data) does not support the Harrit et al 2009 Bentham paper (their conclusions), so what do you want to have supported? Can you spell that out?

By the way, Basile's own 2010 results proved conclusively that the chips' burning energetic cannot possibly be driven by "thermite" of any kind, for utter lack of metallic fuel. Strange that Basile missed this. Unexcusable that YOU missed it, it has been pointed out to you too many times.
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Old 25th February 2018, 02:49 PM   #831
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
I look forward to hearing whether or not Mark Basile’s research supports the Harrit et al 2009 Bentham paper.
I hope you're enjoying looking forward to that, because you can expect that enjoyment to last for a very long time.

Dave
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Old 25th February 2018, 03:39 PM   #832
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
If his upcoming work proves lacking in scientific credibility his story will be finally over.
We're all well aware of your criterion for "scientific credibility". There must be very few papers with such a blatant lack in scientific credibility as the Bentham paper, yet you accepted it. So I read that as "if it doesn't support my pre-conceived conclusions then it will prove lacking in scientific credibility, otherwise it will be fine".
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Old 25th February 2018, 07:16 PM   #833
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How do you keep the rubes in suspense..........
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Old 26th February 2018, 06:47 AM   #834
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
”…I suspect Ziggi also lies about the following (directly, or by insinuation):…
Who cares about your heavily biased assumptions, suspicions, speculations etc etc.

Rather than waste all your time and effort carefully crafting text to appear more salient than it is, why don’t you address the science.

If you feel Mark Basile’s choice of Raman Spectroscopy has no legitimacy than let’s hear your argument!
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Old 26th February 2018, 07:03 AM   #835
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
If you feel Mark Basile’s choice of Raman Spectroscopy has no legitimacy than let’s hear your argument!
As soon as we hear what "Chemist Mark Basile" claims to have found out using Raman spectroscopy, there'll be something to argue about. At the moment there's just an unverified claim that a person has used an experimental technique.

Dave
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Old 26th February 2018, 07:22 AM   #836
Gamolon
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
Who cares about your heavily biased assumptions, suspicions, speculations etc etc.

Rather than waste all your time and effort carefully crafting text to appear more salient than it is, why don’t you address the science.

If you feel Mark Basile’s choice of Raman Spectroscopy has no legitimacy than let’s hear your argument!
Here's some science for you.

How about publish results comparing their supposed thermite chips to chips of both types of primer paint?

I mean for Christ's sake!

Oystein pointed out that Stephen Jones used a slide in one of his presentations that the XEDS spectrum of primer paint. Lo and behold, it matches the XEDS spectrum of an MEK sample in Harrit's paper that Harrit claims is thermite.
http://oystein-debate.blogspot.com/2...paint-not.html

It will be interesting to see Basile's comparisons between actual primer paint chips (both types used) from the WTC dust (this is key here) and the suspected thermite chips. A side by side comparison. I wonder why this hasn't been done yet. It's interesting that Harrit used external sources for the data he used to represent primer paint paint in his paper instead of actually testing chips he had in his hands and publishing those results.
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Old 26th February 2018, 08:10 AM   #837
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
Who cares about your heavily biased assumptions, suspicions, speculations etc etc.

Rather than waste all your time and effort carefully crafting text to appear more salient than it is, why don’t you address the science.
As you certainly know, we here at JREF/ISF started addressing, and refuting, the "science" of Harrit et al the day after it was published. Sunstealer was the first to point out, in April 2009, that all the aluminium in those chips a-d is bound as inert aluminium silicate - a mineral called "kaolin". It's where all of the Harrit/Jones points to.
This has been confirmed by Millette in early 2012 - FTIR and TEM-SAED did the trick.

I myself have been addressing, and debunking, the "science" of Harrit, Jones and Basile mainly in 2011 and 2012, helped a great deal by the late Ivan Kminek, and by Chris Mohr's work. Kudos to Sunstealer and The Almond for teaching me how to assess the methods these dorks (Jones, Ryan, Farnsworth, Farrer) employed and how to read their data. Lots of thanks to the late leftysergeant, beachnut, Dave Rogers, and plenty of others chiming in.

Truthers have not recuperated from the deadly blows we delivered - none of you has been able to resurrect the silly, stupid "nano-thermite" claim from the ashes.

So don't give me the "address the science" perfidy - done and sealed YEARS ago. As you must very certainly be painfully aware of.

Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
If you feel Mark Basile’s choice of Raman Spectroscopy has no legitimacy than let’s hear your argument!
And here is the totality of your response to my claims: A Strawman. Why do Truthers fail and get entangled in Fallacies every single time they attempt to argue? Hopeless!
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Old 26th February 2018, 04:44 PM   #838
DGM
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post

If you feel Mark Basile’s choice of Raman Spectroscopy has no legitimacy than let’s hear your argument!
You seem to be reading this thread.

I'd like to know your take on why he's doing this test at all? He was tasked to separate out candidate chips for independent testing. Separation criteria is well defined in the supposed peer reviewed original paper.

My question to you would be, as Basile is connected to the original study, what happened to the "independent"?

Care to address this question or will you post up another strawman? You know my vote........
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Old 26th February 2018, 05:48 PM   #839
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My best guess...

The tests were done, and the results were negative.

The money is all gone.

Mark Basile is just hoping the whole thing goes away...
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Old 26th February 2018, 07:03 PM   #840
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You all are so terribly pessimistic. Ziggi Zugam and Mark Basile are incredibly competent, trustworthy, diligent, and intelligent individuals. Of course they couldn't send the chips to an independent lab in 46 months or even 47 months. But we're now in month 48 and Ziggi has promised us an important update that will doubtlessly present real progress and offer a reasonable explanation for the four years of delays. (Perhaps, for example, Mark Basile's chips were stolen by insiders jobbers at the FBI and, after a series of daring escapades across the globe, Mark finally managed to trace them all the way back to the FBI's secret lair in Mt. Rushmore, only to arrive just in time to watch them be destroyed in a satanic ritual involving pizza, at which point Mark had to go back to square one and invent a time machine to gather new samples from ground zero that he could personally assure were not contaminated.)

Just wait and see--Ziggi Zugam and Mark Basile will surely come through due to their unwavering competence, trustworthiness, diligence, and intelligence. Right, Ziggi? You're about to drop that huge update on all of these doubters, aren't ya? Month 48 is the one! Just two days left, so the announcement must be coming!

Last edited by benthamitemetric; 26th February 2018 at 07:05 PM.
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