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Old 19th September 2017, 04:18 PM   #201
BStrong
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Were the ears actually turned inside out?
If not, please interprete this expression for us!

(Hint: We have no way of telling what specific injury is referenced here, only that it affected the ears. )
Almost happened to me in the front row at a Rush concert.

Handicapped seating, directly in front of the subwoofer for Peart's drums.

Even my custom molded earplugs couldn't save me.
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Old 19th September 2017, 05:19 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Almost happened to me in the front row at a Rush concert.

Handicapped seating, directly in front of the subwoofer for Peart's drums.

Even my custom molded earplugs couldn't save me.
But, You loved every minute...............
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Old 19th September 2017, 05:27 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Nobody has provided evidence?

If you'd bother to read through the multitude of 911 threads here you'd find those pictures showing both towers and 7 leaning as the fires did their job.

Right off the bat you base your claim on a lie that is easily debunked, and has been debunked multiple times on this board.
No, I've brought this up before and nobody, NIST nor any photographic expert, even a layman, has brought forth evidence that WTC 7 or the tops of either tower were leaning. The reports of leaning that day were all most likely half-truth rumors.
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Old 19th September 2017, 05:34 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
But, You loved every minute...............
Other than explosives and unsuppressed gunfire indoors, it was about the highest volume I've ever been subjected too.

And yes, I enjoyed every minute.
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Old 19th September 2017, 05:36 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
No, I've brought this up before and nobody, NIST nor any photographic expert, even a layman, has brought forth evidence that WTC 7 or the tops of either tower were leaning. The reports of leaning that day were all most likely half-truth rumors.
Which is something you have fully embraced when those "half-truth rumors" support some CTist half-baked theory.
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Old 19th September 2017, 05:37 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
How's that work? does he (or you) not know how long he was out or was he in and out for 2 to 6 days?

That counts out HE.

If a victim of an HE detonation is close enough to receive that level of burn injury, the burns would be nothing more than an injury noted when the body parts of the corpse were recovered.

Levels of burn injury in individuals surviving an explosive detonation are under 30%. - Individuals suffering burns from HE above that 30% would typically also suffer various traumatic amputations and internal injuries that would make survival highly unlikely outside of immediate trauma care.

The injuries you cite are very consistent with being inside a structure that failed.
You are assuming that his interpretation of exactly what happened before he lost consciousness must be true. Even an expulsion of fire produced by the cheap and easily traceable explosives you cite did not literally have to be close enough to touch Ron for him to have gotten burns and get hit in the head by something to make him unconscious. Keep in mind that Ron thinks he lost consciousness by getting hit on the head by something. What's more likely, the object that hit him in the head originates from the ground floor and somehow related to the expulsion of fire and other heat he saw a fraction of time earlier, or that he was hit by a small piece of debris falling from the top? He seems to have been trapped in an area where deadly debris could not hit him.
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Old 19th September 2017, 06:28 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
You are assuming that his interpretation of exactly what happened before he lost consciousness must be true. Even an expulsion of fire produced by the cheap and easily traceable explosives you cite did not literally have to be close enough to touch Ron for him to have gotten burns and get hit in the head by something to make him unconscious. Keep in mind that Ron thinks he lost consciousness by getting hit on the head by something. What's more likely, the object that hit him in the head originates from the ground floor and somehow related to the expulsion of fire and other heat he saw a fraction of time earlier, or that he was hit by a small piece of debris falling from the top? He seems to have been trapped in an area where deadly debris could not hit him.
Before I get to the "assuming" issue, let's hear from you about what "Cheap and Easily traceable" means.

In the assumption sweepstakes, you're so far in the lead the rest of us can't see you.

You assume "fireballs" = explosives. I provide visual evidence to the contrary. I pose the question of what materials were proven to be on the scene that would produce fireballs, and you run for the tall grass and deflect with a video of a CD that bolsters my evidence and refutes yours.

You bring up specific injuries to an individual. I explain why the injuries noted are not consistent w/ blast injuries. You clearly assume that no other mechanism was present that could have caused those injuries, and you're still not answering the simple question I asked "what materials were known to be present that would produce fireballs?"

Is this going to turn into another example of you running away from answering simple questions related to your assertions?

It didn't work with "Pin-the-Headwound" on the drawing or what "The world's best snipers" had to say about LHO's marksmanship and I strongly suspect it won't cut it in this thread either.

The question of the day remains:

"What materials were known to be present that would produce fireballs?"

Run away from it at your own risk.
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Old 19th September 2017, 07:10 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
...For example, they imply that explosions that cause fire were not seen with the WTC. We know this is false. Want witnesses who saw fireballs DURING THE ACTUAL COLLAPSE shooting out of the ground floors? Look no further than Ron DeFranceso or reporter Carol Martin. DeFrancesco even had the burns to prove it!
...
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
You are assuming that his [DeFrancesco's] interpretation of exactly what happened before he lost consciousness must be true...
That's some pretty funny stuff. Only a really committed CTist could cite as evidence for his scenario the testimony of a witness which the CTist then must imply may not be "exactly what happened" for it to work. That's gold, Jerry, gold, I tellya!
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Old 19th September 2017, 07:18 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
But, You loved every minute...............
That's Loverboy, not Rush.

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Old 19th September 2017, 07:21 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
That's some pretty funny stuff. Only a really committed CTist could cite as evidence for his scenario the testimony of a witness which the CTist then must imply may not be "exactly what happened" for it to work. That's gold, Jerry, gold, I tellya!
Yup. It sounded just that ridiculous. This is getting into CIT territory.
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Old 19th September 2017, 07:33 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
That's some pretty funny stuff. Only a really committed CTist could cite as evidence for his scenario the testimony of a witness which the CTist then must imply may not be "exactly what happened" for it to work. That's gold, Jerry, gold, I tellya!
He has his injuries as evidence for what he remembers. So we know for sure that somehow there was some kind of a fiery explosion on the ground floor.
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Old 19th September 2017, 07:35 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Before I get to the "assuming" issue, let's hear from you about what "Cheap and Easily traceable" means.

In the assumption sweepstakes, you're so far in the lead the rest of us can't see you.

You assume "fireballs" = explosives. I provide visual evidence to the contrary. I pose the question of what materials were proven to be on the scene that would produce fireballs, and you run for the tall grass and deflect with a video of a CD that bolsters my evidence and refutes yours.

You bring up specific injuries to an individual. I explain why the injuries noted are not consistent w/ blast injuries. You clearly assume that no other mechanism was present that could have caused those injuries, and you're still not answering the simple question I asked "what materials were known to be present that would produce fireballs?"

Is this going to turn into another example of you running away from answering simple questions related to your assertions?

It didn't work with "Pin-the-Headwound" on the drawing or what "The world's best snipers" had to say about LHO's marksmanship and I strongly suspect it won't cut it in this thread either.

The question of the day remains:

"What materials were known to be present that would produce fireballs?"

Run away from it at your own risk.
Um, silly, I already posted a video of a regular explosive demolition that produced fiery explosions.
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Old 19th September 2017, 07:38 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Um, silly, I already posted a video of a regular explosive demolition that produced fiery explosions.
Um, silly. Were explosive demolition charges known to be present at the WTC?

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Old 19th September 2017, 07:44 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by cantonear1968 View Post
Yup. It sounded just that ridiculous. This is getting into CIT territory.
Not content to sound ridiculous in only one thread in CT, they had to come over here to spread the joy.
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Old 19th September 2017, 07:44 PM   #215
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Then what is the official story on the things seen by Ron DiFrancesco and Carol Marin?

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Last edited by MicahJava; 19th September 2017 at 07:48 PM.
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Old 19th September 2017, 07:49 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Um, silly, I already posted a video of a regular explosive demolition that produced fiery explosions.
It produced a flash, not a fireball of the type cited by your favorite sources.

Still running away from the question - "What materials were known to be present that would produce fireballs?"

It didn't work in the JFK thread. It won't work here, and for free bonus points towards your night master fact avoidance wings - let's hear from you about what "Cheap and Easily traceable" means."

You wrote it, now you get to explain it.
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Old 19th September 2017, 07:49 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Then what is the official story on the things seen by Ron DiFrancesco and Carol Marin?
Try answering the question:

What materials were known to be present that would produce fireballs?

Once you find the correct answer (it's not difficult!), you have practically answered your own question!

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Old 19th September 2017, 07:50 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Then what is the official story on the things seen by Ron DiFrancesco and Carol Marin?

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I have no idea.

Your sources, your problem.

Might want to work on your responses to the questions on the table.
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Old 19th September 2017, 07:52 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Try answering the question:

What materials were known to be present that would produce fireballs?

Once you find the correct answer (it's not difficult!), you have practically answered your own question!

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Do you think jet fuel had something to do with it?

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Old 19th September 2017, 08:01 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Do you think jet fuel had something to do with it?

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Don't be coy.

Somebody playing for time may use coyness as a defense, but it does their argument no good.

It's unflattering.

Try answering the two questions I posed.
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Old 19th September 2017, 08:07 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Do you think jet fuel had something to do with it?

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That's not an answer. Don't be coy! Give an answer to the question.

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Old 19th September 2017, 08:56 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Then what is the official story on the things seen by Ron DiFrancesco and Carol Marin? ...
Fire. Ron said so. So far all the sources you supplied debunk CD. Keep up the good work debunking yourself.
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Old 19th September 2017, 11:55 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
No, I've brought this up before and nobody, NIST nor any photographic expert, even a layman, has brought forth evidence that WTC 7 or the tops of either tower were leaning. The reports of leaning that day were all most likely half-truth rumors.
That's because you show up here and started posting without reading.

I spent three months after I registered here reading through the various 9-11 threads before I made my first post here.

In those threads are pictures with diagrams showing the towers leaning, and mid-sections buckling. The same work was done with WTC7.

Both Twin Towers are visibly leaning in the fixed camera video footage from a couple of the networks as well.

I love how you think you know better than the 100,000 eye witnesses who were there and saw this happen.
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Old 20th September 2017, 12:30 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Then what is the official story on the things seen by Ron DiFrancesco and Carol Marin?
Strange question.

Must there be an official story for everything?

I'm not aware that anyone in an official investigation interviewed either of them. The 9/11 Commission conducted over 1200 interviews [source]. They can't include each and every person of the tens of thousands of people who got injuries.

You probably meant to ask how people think that their stories fit within the narrative accepted by everyone except truthers.

And we've noted that you've ignored the fact that blast injuries do not produce the effects that DiFrancesco or Marin reported. Not that it's any surprise: ignoring facts when they're inconvenient to their story is what truthers do, and you've been caught doing it every so often.
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Old 20th September 2017, 01:35 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
No, I've brought this up before and nobody, NIST nor any photographic expert, even a layman, has brought forth evidence that WTC 7 or the tops of either tower were leaning. The reports of leaning that day were all most likely half-truth rumors.
And this is a classic example of the implicit cherry-picking fallacy. You've decided that, for some reason, the reports of WTC7 leaning were crucial to forming the conclusion that the collapse was caused by the fires (hint: no, it wasn't), so you've got to decide that those reports are invalid and arose purely from half-truth rumours. However, you've also decided that the second hand reports that an un-named engineer predicted the collapse well in advance are incompatible with the collapse being caused by the fires (hint 2: no, that wasn't either), so despite the evidence for the latter being no more anecdotal, you've decided that it's established historical fact that a specific person made a specific statement at a specific time. This is classic conspiracy theorist thinking; if the facts disagree with the conspiracy theory, the facts must be suitably adjusted.

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Old 20th September 2017, 01:39 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
That's some pretty funny stuff. Only a really committed CTist could cite as evidence for his scenario the testimony of a witness which the CTist then must imply may not be "exactly what happened" for it to work. That's gold, Jerry, gold, I tellya!
This is, let's not forget, the person who quotes JFK autopsy reports that state that only a single bullet wound to the head was observed and claims that they're irrefutable evidence for two bullet wounds to the head. It's on a par with Ace Baker explaining how the videos showing airliners hit the Twin Towers are proof that no airliners hit the Twin Towers.

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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 20th September 2017, 01:42 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
He has his injuries as evidence for what he remembers. So we know for sure that somehow there was some kind of a fiery explosion on an expulsion of flame from the ground floor as a burning 110 storey building collapsed on to that ground floor.
FTFY. See if you can figure out some possible reasons why the collapse of a burning building might lead to a rapid expulsion of flame; conspiracy theorists have for some reason been unable to work this one out for sixteen years, but you may be the first!

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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

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Old 20th September 2017, 07:09 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
Strange question.

Must there be an official story for everything?

I'm not aware that anyone in an official investigation interviewed either of them. The 9/11 Commission conducted over 1200 interviews [source]. They can't include each and every person of the tens of thousands of people who got injuries.

You probably meant to ask how people think that their stories fit within the narrative accepted by everyone except truthers.

And we've noted that you've ignored the fact that blast injuries do not produce the effects that DiFrancesco or Marin reported. Not that it's any surprise: ignoring facts when they're inconvenient to their story is what truthers do, and you've been caught doing it every so often.
Apparently so. Reasonable people understand that properly consilient evidence is representative of an event that can lead to a conclusion about it, without needing to be an absolute reconstruction of every little bit of it. DeFrancesco's experience is a piece of the context, not a stand-alone that negates context itself; it may not be possible to know exactly what happened to him, but it's not really necessary to when context allows a reasonable inference.

And ralfyman's idea that skepticism requires that every piece of steel needed to be examined for the "unique damage" of CD to eliminate that possibility is of a piece with this approach, sort of emblematic of it. He says he's not a truther, and I see no reason to doubt him; but what's the difference? He prefers to reach no conclusion; and CTists don't actually have one, since their CT is really only a placeholder for it. So the labels may be different, but if the outcome is identical, it's a difference that makes no difference.

They both remind me of creationists who demand that you show them a transitional fossil between species, and, when shown one, then demand the transitional fossil between that one and the preceding (or succeeding) species. Science and actual skepticism are methods of closing gaps with a reasonable degree of confidence; CT and ralfyman's brand of skepticism are exercises in forever keeping those gaps open. "God of the gaps" or "conspiracy of the gaps" are just two different faces of the same obtuse methodology.
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Old 20th September 2017, 08:40 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Do you think jet fuel had something to do with it?

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Please provide a source link to the one concise controlled demolition explanation.

Do you think jet fuel had something to do with it? How about you lay out what you believe along with sources to back it up. 16+ years and all the CD crowd has is the same questions asked over and over.

Even the latest Dr. Hulsey work does not prove WTC7 was a controlled demolition. It is a poor attempt to show the NIST work was wrong.
Hint: Even if NIST is wrong regarding the probable collapse does not mean it was controlled demolition.
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Old 20th September 2017, 09:29 AM   #230
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CT: "That's Wrong"
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CT: "The (Loads/direction/time/displacement/acceleration) is incorrect!"
MIST: "How are they incorrect?"
CT: "They made false assumptions. It can't happen that way!"
MIST: "In what way are the assumptions false or incorrect?"
CT: "They're wrong!"
et cetera, et cetera, ad infinitum

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Old 20th September 2017, 09:30 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
He has his injuries as evidence for what he remembers. So we know for sure that somehow there was some kind of a fiery explosion on the ground floor.

Obviously nothing to do with explosives because no one heard explosions due to explosives as the WTC buildings collapsed which is why there is still no CD evidence after 16 years. The 9/11 CD claim was a fabrication and truthers took the bait and ran off with it.

Who was the person who'd said: "There's a sucker born every minute?"

.

Last edited by skyeagle409; 20th September 2017 at 09:33 AM.
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Old 20th September 2017, 10:00 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
No, I've brought this up before and nobody, NIST nor any photographic expert, even a layman, has brought forth evidence that WTC 7 or the tops of either tower were leaning. The reports of leaning that day were all most likely half-truth rumors.

Let's take a look and see if you are correct.

Quote:
9/11 cops saw collapse coming

The World Trade Center towers showed telltale signs they were about to collapse several minutes before each crumbled to the ground, scientists probing the Sept. 11, 2001, disaster said yesterday.

In the case of the north tower, police chopper pilots reported seeing the warning signs - an inward bowing of the building facade - at least eight minutes before it collapsed at 10:29 a.m.

Engineers believe the bowing of the exterior steel beams near the flame-engulfed floors was the critical "triggering point" because that's the direction each tower tilted as it came crashing down.

http://www.skyscrapersafety.org/html..._20040619.html


The WTC Buildings are Leaning and Buckling

• At 9:30 am, a FDNY Chief Officer inside WTC 1 feels the building move and makes the decision that the building is no longer safe.

• At 9:49 am, NYPD helicopters provide a radio report stating that “large pieces” are falling from WTC 2.

• At 10:07 am, NYPD aviation units warn that WTC 1 may collapse.

• At 10:20 am, NYPD aviation unit reports that WTC 1 is leaning to the south.


http://www.representativepress.org/B...plosives2.html

Just goes to show that you are incorrect.
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Old 20th September 2017, 10:07 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Um, silly, I already posted a video of a regular explosive demolition that produced fiery explosions.

Were you aware that explosives make a lot of noise when detonated?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfmNErY0FIU
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Old 20th September 2017, 11:32 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Do you think jet fuel had something to do with it?

Sent from my NeXT Computer through sadomasochism
Why do you continually ask questions in answer to questions poised to you? You did that once to me before I understood your MO. You are one of the most stubborn individuals I have seen. Repeatedly shown to be incorrect on your layman's opinion on scientific/technical descriptions of the event of 9/11. Fires burning uncontrolled on several floors of a weakened by falling debris from WTC 1 caused the structural steel members to loose necessary strength to sustain their design rigidness. The building collapsed due to fires, get over your unsubstantiated CT belief of a CD.
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Old 20th September 2017, 04:54 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by bknight View Post
Why do you continually ask questions in answer to questions poised to you? You did that once to me before I understood your MO. You are one of the most stubborn individuals I have seen. Repeatedly shown to be incorrect on your layman's opinion on scientific/technical descriptions of the event of 9/11. Fires burning uncontrolled on several floors of a weakened by falling debris from WTC 1 caused the structural steel members to loose necessary strength to sustain their design rigidness. The building collapsed due to fires, get over your unsubstantiated CT belief of a CD.
To give him credit, he did invent the ventriloquist sound suppressor.
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Old 20th September 2017, 05:03 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Do you think jet fuel had something to do with it?

Sent from my NeXT Computer through sadomasochism
Isn't it always the case, the "truther" or troll comes out when asked a direct question............
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Old 20th September 2017, 05:15 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Do you think jet fuel had something to do with it?
You do accept the presence of several thousand gallons of jet fuel? You do accept the fact it's highly volatile when vaporized?
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Old 20th September 2017, 05:59 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
Let's take a look and see if you are correct.

Just goes to show that you are incorrect.
Perimeter columns bending inward could cause an illusion that makes the top look like it's slightly leaning. There is no photographic evidence that the entire tops of either tower were leaning.
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Old 20th September 2017, 06:08 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Perimeter columns bending inward could cause an illusion that makes the top look like it's slightly leaning.
Perimeter columns doing what?

welcome to the debunking side!
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Old 20th September 2017, 06:29 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Perimeter columns bending inward could cause an illusion that makes the top look like it's slightly leaning.

True. Kind of like when splinters of shattered shin bones protruding through your skin causes an illusion that makes it look like you've broken your leg.
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