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Old 28th September 2017, 03:55 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I am quite sure you are not getting it:

Original version of BBC's 2008 program The Conspiracy Files: The Third Tower is the You tube video that contains this line: ""It turns out that when you have connections that essentially don't have strength for the loads that they are being subjected to. And you have this massive failure of a column it does not take time. The structure has lost all integrity at that point in time."
.

The updated version is called 9/11 - The Truth Behind the Third Tower contains this line:

"Clearly, the time that this building took to collapse was longer by almost 40-50% than the free-fall time of an object. Well, 40% is a lot longer. It's not 5%, it's 40%. It's huge."

You have it exactly backwards
The Big Dog, I now think you're probably right. David Ray Griffin's book The Mysterious Collapse of World Trade Center building 7 explains the difference between the two versions of the BBC program, and the one on Youtube is probably the first because it does not acknowledge Michael Hess when speaking of Barry Jennings. The later version has Michael Hess. I can not find a full length version of that on the internet. I wonder if there were more versions of if BBC has continuously aired the later version with the freefall denial.
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Old 28th September 2017, 03:59 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
The Big Dog, I now think you're probably right. David Ray Griffin's book The Mysterious Collapse of World Trade Center building 7 explains the difference between the two versions of the BBC program, and the one on Youtube is probably the first because it does not acknowledge Michael Hess when speaking of Barry Jennings. The later version has Michael Hess. I can not find a full length version of that on the internet. I wonder if there were more versions of if BBC has continuously aired the later version with the freefall denial.
Your problem is you're reading David Ray Griffin's book. Suspect everything he says is false and is driven by his own agenda, to sell more books.............
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Old 28th September 2017, 08:48 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
The Big Dog, I now think you're probably right. David Ray Griffin's book The Mysterious Collapse of World Trade Center building 7 explains the difference between the two versions of the BBC program, and the one on Youtube is probably the first because it does not acknowledge Michael Hess when speaking of Barry Jennings. The later version has Michael Hess. I can not find a full length version of that on the internet. I wonder if there were more versions of if BBC has continuously aired the later version with the freefall denial.
DRG, he makes money off of gullible people, and he has zero original work. He is a quote mining master selling his quote mining books to fools who have no clue.

Barry Jennings, Michael Hess, would have died if they were near an explosive. But they experienced a WTC tower falling onto WTC 7... oops, you got zero evidence.

How can there be free fall denial, there is a video, it is part of NIST's evidence. Thus there can be no free fall denial, but there is the fact fire caused the collapse. Not much quibbling and zero evidence for CD can do to refute fire caused the collapse.
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Old 28th September 2017, 09:00 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
The sharpprintinginc website
Thank you so much for reminding us of this website.
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Old 29th September 2017, 01:06 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
I wonder if there were more versions of if BBC has continuously aired the later version with the factually correct discussion of freefall denial.
FTFY.

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Old 29th September 2017, 04:09 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
DRG, he makes money off of gullible people, and he has zero original work. He is a quote mining master selling his quote mining books to fools who have no clue.

Barry Jennings, Michael Hess, would have died if they were near an explosive. But they experienced a WTC tower falling onto WTC 7... oops, you got zero evidence.

How can there be free fall denial, there is a video, it is part of NIST's evidence. Thus there can be no free fall denial, but there is the fact fire caused the collapse. Not much quibbling and zero evidence for CD can do to refute fire caused the collapse.
Didn't Barry mostly imply that the explosion was underneath them? I think he may have been using metaphor when he said "I was blown back".
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Old 29th September 2017, 05:10 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
I wonder if there were more versions ...
Don't appear to be any. There was a previous 2008 Conspiracy Files episode on the whole topic of 9/11 conspiracy theories and another in 2011 on the 10th anniversary which might have been an update of that. No other versions of the third tower episode.
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Old 29th September 2017, 11:50 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Didn't Barry mostly imply that the explosion was underneath them? I think he may have been using metaphor when he said "I was blown back".

Whatever happened to him, it had nothing to do with CD explosives because he would not have been left alive to tell anyone what happened to him, but once again, no one heard any CD explosions as the WTC buildings collapsed, which explains why no evidence of CD explosives of any kind was ever found in the WTC rubble.
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Old 29th September 2017, 02:13 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
... the freefall denial.
I notice that you have been on the run ever since you opened this thread from the question, most poignantly asked by Dave Rogers:

Which statement or claim that Shyam Sunder makes in any of the quotes you have latched on to is not factually totally correct?

Please quote each such statement, and explain what is wrong about it!

I think your avoiding this question is an indication that you have at least a budding awareness that Sunder was completely, 100% correct in everything he said, or else you would quote and explain an error he made.

Thanks for your anticipated continuation of flight, and for the implied admission Sunder was right in everything!
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Old 29th September 2017, 03:28 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Didn't Barry mostly imply that the explosion was underneath them? I think he may have been using metaphor when he said "I was blown back".
It's really a moot point because even a cursory look at his time line proves the "explosion" was the collapse of the North Tower.

"Truthers" for years have been trying to shoehorn his account into something that supports CD of WTC7, when it fits the collapse of the two towers perfectly.
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Old 30th September 2017, 07:32 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by heymatto70 View Post
I know it's near impossible to prove, but how many people even knew of the existance of WTC7 before 9/11 and what the purpose of the building was? How many people knew the WTC was more than just the Twin Towers? And why does no one seem to care that the results of the attacks on the Towers caused all 7 buildings to be destroyed, or demolished remotely? Why is 7 some mysterious smoking gun?
Because truthers are ignorant of the real world, and "WTC7" has evolved into one of the icons of their religion.

"WTC7" was the Salomon Brothers Building. No one anywhere was calling it "World Trade Center 7" any more than they were calling the Marriott Hotel (also destroyed) "World Trade Center 5."
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Old 30th September 2017, 08:46 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
No one anywhere was calling it "World Trade Center 7" any more than they were calling the Marriott Hotel (also destroyed) "World Trade Center 5."
Yeah, I'm pretty sure nobody ever called the Marriott WTC5

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Old 30th September 2017, 03:46 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Because truthers are ignorant of the real world, and "WTC7" has evolved into one of the icons of their religion.

"WTC7" was the Salomon Brothers Building. No one anywhere was calling it "World Trade Center 7" any more than they were calling the Marriott Hotel (also destroyed) "World Trade Center 5."
Where did you pull that from? Doing a search on newspapers.com yields dozens if not hundreds of results referring to "World Trade Center 7" on 9/11/2001 or shortly after.
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Old 30th September 2017, 03:51 PM   #94
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Did you miss the 'before 9/11' in the post above?
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Old 30th September 2017, 04:55 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Where did you pull that from? Doing a search on newspapers.com yields dozens if not hundreds of results referring to "World Trade Center 7" on 9/11/2001 or shortly after.
You still haven't found a single thing that was wrong in any of Sunder's statements, have you?

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Old 30th September 2017, 09:39 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Yeah, I'm pretty sure nobody ever called the Marriott WTC5

Dave
Oops. My cousin lived there for a while on a consulting job. He moved out in early 2001.
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Old 30th September 2017, 10:05 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by MileHighMadness View Post
Free fall...not even an issue. Evidence of nothing...
Yeah, I timed the controlled demolition of a building called the Southwark Towers IIRC in Philadelphia. It did not come down in anywhere near freefall acceleration, and for exactly the reason Truthers say the Twin Towers and WTC 7 shouldn't come down in freefall--because even after the charges were set off, the building still had some structural resistance to collapse.

Freefall acceleration is not a characteristic of controlled demolitions.
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Old 30th September 2017, 11:56 PM   #98
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So... even if this thread’s OP was remotely correct... what was the apparent purpose of the insidious change, who was responsible, and...why did the BBC and/or the production company play along?
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Old 1st October 2017, 02:10 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
It's really a moot point because even a cursory look at his time line proves the "explosion" was the collapse of the North Tower.

"Truthers" for years have been trying to shoehorn his account into something that supports CD of WTC7, when it fits the collapse of the two towers perfectly.
You're asking too much of truthers, I think.
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Old 1st October 2017, 07:14 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
NIST initially didn't admit freefall when you tracked the motion of the building. At the time, they tried pushing the narrative that just timing the entire collapse and averaging it counts as somehow disproving freefall for 2.25 seconds.
I've reread this. Do you realize just how paranoid it sounds? Even more so if we consider that NIST don't ever mention a 2.25 seconds period.
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Old 1st October 2017, 08:16 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Where did you pull that from? Doing a search on newspapers.com yields dozens if not hundreds of results referring to "World Trade Center 7" on 9/11/2001 or shortly after.
Now I don't know if the building was ever referred as "Salomon Brothers Building" (see edit below)


But "When the building opened in 1987, Silverstein had difficulties attracting tenants. Salomon Brothers signed a long-term lease in 1988, and became the main tenants of the building"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_World_Trade_Center

EDIT:
Further reading of this article reveals:

"In November 1988, Salomon Brothers withdrew from plans to build a large new complex at Columbus Circle in Midtown, and agreed to a 20-year lease for the top 19 floors of 7*World Trade Center.[26] The building was extensively renovated in 1989 to accommodate the needs of Salomon Brothers. This led to the alternative naming of the building as the Salomon Brothers building"

So once again MJ, you fail again.

Last edited by bknight; 1st October 2017 at 08:25 AM. Reason: Added additional information from article
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Old 1st October 2017, 11:52 AM   #102
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It is against 9/11 truth bylaws to do research.
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Old 1st October 2017, 11:57 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
It is against 9/11 truth bylaws to do research.
That could be said of all CT.
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Old 1st October 2017, 12:02 PM   #104
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The BBC simply corrected an error. Happens all the time in publishing;a error is made in the first printing of a book and then corrected in subsequent editions.
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Old 1st October 2017, 02:10 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The BBC simply corrected an error. Happens all the time in publishing;a error is made in the first printing of a book and then corrected in subsequent editions.
Was there any error? None has been pointed out. I thought they just updated it with material from a later interview.
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Old 1st October 2017, 05:33 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
That's the point. I posted a subtitle title file that survived from the original airing. BBC aired the new version with the changed freefall part. That second version survives on Youtube and other websites.
I've been collecting these videos for years. I have never seen the version called "9/11: The Truth Behind the Third Tower." Looks like it was an updated version of the one titled simply "9/11: The Third Tower." They added the part about freefall.

Quote:
The documentary updates an edition of The Conspiracy Files shown earlier this year.

It features new interviews with the lead official investigator and an important new eyewitness together with architects, scientists and others who think there was a sinister plot to destroy the building.
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/conspiracy_files/7675392. stm

If you find this newer version let me know. Thanks. My website is 911conspiracy. tv
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Old 2nd October 2017, 12:44 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by MattNelson View Post
I've been collecting these videos for years. I have never seen the version called "9/11: The Truth Behind the Third Tower." Looks like it was an updated version of the one titled simply "9/11: The Third Tower." They added the part about freefall.


news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/conspiracy_files/7675392. stm

If you find this newer version let me know. Thanks. My website is 911conspiracy. tv
YOU made 911conspiracy.tv? Man, I always notice CT's are the best people ever. 911conspiracy.tv is perhaps the best archived website for browsing through video evidence.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 12:47 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
It is against 9/11 truth bylaws to do research.
How many little details would people know about historical events would we not know if if we didn't have people constantly questioning the question of a broader conspiracy in certain cases?
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Old 2nd October 2017, 12:51 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
YOU made 911conspiracy.tv? Man, I always notice CT's are the best people ever. 911conspiracy.tv is perhaps the best archived website for browsing through video evidence.
How about me? I actually researched the issue and gave you the actual answer...

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Old 2nd October 2017, 01:06 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
How about me? I actually researched the issue and gave you the actual answer...

Not the one MJ wanted,
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Old 2nd October 2017, 01:17 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
How many little details would people know about historical events would we not know if if we didn't have people constantly questioning the question of a broader conspiracy in certain cases?
How few would we know if broadcasters were afraid to add new material to documentaries for fear of accusations of complicity in mass murder? Conspiracy theories, in general, aim to subtract from the sum total of human knowledge by casting unjust aspersions on those parts of it that show them to be self-evidently untrue, and this thread is a classic example.

Dave
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Old 2nd October 2017, 02:03 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
YOU made 911conspiracy.tv? Man, I always notice CT's are the best people ever. 911conspiracy.tv is perhaps the best archived website for browsing through video evidence.

You are joking, right?! What better way to discredit the 9/11 True Movement than to use 911conspiracy.tv as a reference.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 02:28 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
How many little details would people know about historical events would we not know if if we didn't have people constantly questioning the question of a broader conspiracy in certain cases?

I have no problem with people asking questions, but when those same people throw common sense out the window and substitute ignorance and stupidity, then that is where I draw the line.

A few cases as examples that highlights ignorance and lack of common sense of 9/11 Truthers in regard to their claims:

* No aircraft struck the WTC Towers or the Pentagon despite many videos and eyewitness accounts of two B-767's striking those buildings in addition to physical evidence such as recovered aircraft wreckage and announcements by American Airlines and United Airlines on the loss of their aircraft.

* The WTC Towers collapsed at free fall or near-free fall speed despite the fact that debris and dust plumes are seen in videos outpacing the collapse of each of those buildings which common sense says the WTC buildings were not collapsing at free fall speeds.

* CD explosives were used to bring down both WTC Towers and WTC 7 despite the fact no one heard demolition explosions in the seconds before nor during the collapse of those buildings and the fact that seismographs detected no demolition explosions during that time frame, which once again, explains why no demolition hardware was ever found in the WTC rubble

* United 93 landed at Cleveland Airport, which was later to be determined was Delta 1989.

* United 93 was shot down by an F-16 despite the fact that the F-16 in question was nowhere near Shanksville nor were shoot down orders issued to Air Force pilots before United 93 crashed. In other words, no military pilot had orders issued to them to shoot down any airliner prior to the crash of United 93.

* A cruise missile struck the Pentagon despite the fact eyewitnesses reported seeing an airliner strike the building, not a missile, and the fact that wreckage recovered inside and outside the Pentagon was from a B-757 and not from a cruise missile.

* No aircraft debris was ever found at the Shanksville crash site despite photos of recovered B-757 debris in addition to the fact that radar tracked United 93 to its crash site.

* Demolition explosives were used to demolish WTC 7 despite the fact there is no video, audio, seismic data or physical evidence to support that false claim.

And, the list goes on and on.

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Old 2nd October 2017, 02:36 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
How many little details would people know about historical events would we not know if if we didn't have people constantly questioning the question of a broader conspiracy in certain cases?
What a load of BS. That failed logic might explain the belief in far fetched fantasy 9/11 truth lies and other failed conspiracy theories.

Another by law of 9/11 truth membership - a natural ability to apply faulty logic to justify JAQs, due to research being banned.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:04 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
YOU made 911conspiracy.tv? Man, I always notice CT's are the best people ever. 911conspiracy.tv is perhaps the best archived website for browsing through video evidence.
You like how well the cherries were picked?
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:36 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
You are joking, right?! What better way to discredit the 9/11 True Movement than to use 911conspiracy.tv as a reference.
My website is mainly a collection of videos, photos, and TV coverage. An archive of truther videos that I don't wholly support, like the mainstream documentaries also found there. Video playlists, descriptions of videos, and some analysis of ridiculous theories. You might appreciate the work I've done to destroy no plane theories. I think the 4 planes hit where official reports say they did. I'm not much of a truther in that regard... so you have a point.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 08:18 PM   #117
beachnut
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Originally Posted by MattNelson View Post
My website is mainly a collection of videos, photos, and TV coverage. An archive of truther videos that I don't wholly support, like the mainstream documentaries also found there. Video playlists, descriptions of videos, and some analysis of ridiculous theories. You might appreciate the work I've done to destroy no plane theories. I think the 4 planes hit where official reports say they did. I'm not much of a truther in that regard... so you have a point.
There is no evidence for the truther videos, thus, they are wholly debunked, self-debunked usually.

Wholly? Holy moly, holy guacamole

There is no truther videos which warrant support due to lack of evidence, they are wholly BS. The loose change junk, fiction in the first place, rambling of BS which fooled gullible people.

It is good that the no-plane theory is destroyed, because Radar destroyed the no plane theory on 9/11, proving it was 11, 175, 77 and 93.

Quote:
~ 9/11 Press for Truth (2006) - 1hr 24min
Perhaps the best introductory 9/11 documentary. Watch out, however, for the slippery slope of the let-it-happen-on-purpose "LIHOP" theory. All evidence points to false flag.
Press for truth, a video which ignores the biggest FBI investigation in history and makes up BS. There is no evidence of a false flag, a lie in the text of a truth (aka lots of lies "lol" web site) web site.

Quote:
The 3 WTC "Collapses"
Controlled Demolitions
CD, another lie. A typical failed truther web site a failed truther site.

Are lies about free fall covered? lol

Quote:
rush to remove and recycle the steel,
Rush, almost a year. How many months are in a rush? This is funny, kind of.

oops, another lie, or what
Quote:
One fuselage piece from Flight 175 was photographed by FEMA, showing part of the tail/registration number... but the photo appears altered.
Why make up lies about 9/11? Is it to inspire idiots like the Boston bombers feel better about killing.

And then the dumbest claim is found... the planes on 9/11 were taken over by remote control technology (oops, fantasyland shows up). One of the dumbest 9/11 truth claims, makes the top ten list. Almost as bad as nukes, and DEW did it. Where is the evidence for remote control?

Wow http://911conspiracy.tv/about_us.html

Playing the guys you can't name who did 9/11, needed a "new Pearl Harbor" card. Now that is truthy. Skip the fact the only people on Flights 11, 175, 77 and 93 were 19 failed murderers inspired by UBL. Ignore the facts and evidence, make up BS to aid those who hate the USA.

BTW, the flying was bad, not precise. The first time I drove a car, I was exactly on centerline; was that remote control. The first ever landing I did in a KC-135, exactly on centerline, my first flight, my first time flying a heavy jet (a jet in the 300,000 pound class). I never flew big plane before, I had less than 300 hours in small planes, and my first time flying the real jet, perfect landing. The terrorists trained flying small planes, I find small planes harder to fly than the large jets I flew. Was all my flight training, "REMOTE CONTROL".

Anyway, how does 9/11 truth implying free fall means CD work; is that debunked yet.

One of the dumbest claim is remote control (fantasyland). The imaginary people you say did 9/11, needed a new Pearl Harbor to reshape the military. The New Pearl Harbor stuff from PNAC was a claim the military would need an event to change the way the military is structured to cope with the changing world. Not a big reason to murder Americans, it was a hint to get to work at it. BTW, we in the military were already looking at how to cope and restructure the military before 9/11, thus there is no need to go and murder americans to change the military to cope with new threats. (28 years active, 4 years ROTC military training, pilot training, master in engineering)

Please explain how they do remote control (fantasyland), yet the FDR for 77 and 93 show hand flying by really bad pilots who could not hold speed, bank, heading, or airspeed. How much does it cost to make a jet remote controlled? Did they use MLS to hit the WTC? lol, ILS, GPS? TLAR?

9/11 truth, and lies from site like yours, 16 years of failure based on ignoring evidence, and shoddy research. Back to free fall is CD, or was 9/11 a false flag...

Quote:
I'm not much of a truther in that regard... so you have a point.
Don't worry, the remote control and false flag, are, big water, ocean water, signs of super trutherism.
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Last edited by beachnut; 2nd October 2017 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 12:00 AM   #118
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Thanks for taking the time, beachnut. I'll read your post later. Now I'd like to edit my statement about the 4 planes and go to bed. 93's demise is suspicious. We're off topic anyway. Time for a new thread, eh?
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Old 3rd October 2017, 06:13 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
How many little details would people know about historical events would we not know if if we didn't have people constantly questioning the question of a broader conspiracy in certain cases?
How about you tell us what actually DID happen on 9/11, in your opinion.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 07:41 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
How about you tell us what actually DID happen on 9/11, in your opinion.
We'll get what ever MJ's CT site indicates and he will lip synch the dialog.
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