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Old 22nd October 2017, 08:42 AM   #321
Dave Rogers
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
That's literally what FDNY chief Peter Hayden and firefighter Michael Currid said.
Not from the quotes you posted.

Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Also, I think some of you are interpreting quotes of first responders a certain way.


We've seen your standard MO in the JFK threads: make up a lie that you want everyone to believe, insist that all the evidence supports it when it obviously doesn't, and accuse everyone else of misinterpreting the evidence. What I don't understand, though, is why you think it'll work.

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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

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Old 22nd October 2017, 08:44 AM   #322
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
sigh What statements from first responders do you think indicate more damage than what photographs we have of the south facade and southwest corner?

I think you missed these statements before.


Quote:
Boyle: There was a huge gaping hole and it was scattered throughout there. It was a huge hole. I would say it was probably about a third of it, right in the middle of it.

Hayden: Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 08:52 AM   #323
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Creaking? Well, creaking can come from a lot and mean a lot of things. One thing it does not mean, in a New York skyscraper the size of a football field, is "the building will collapse in about five or six hours".

Which it eventually did.


Quote:
The "bulge" was probably discovered a little later after they abandoned operations on WTC 7.

Which can help explain why sounds of structural weakening were heard within WTC 7.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 09:01 AM   #324
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
That's literally what FDNY chief Peter Hayden and firefighter Michael Currid said. Shyam Sunder talked about the special engineer publicly on a radio discussion with Graeme MacQueen. They say the special engineer had a significant influence over the FDNY chief's earliest decisions to abandon operations due to fear of structural failure. It makes total sense in the context of the rest of the day .

Also, I think some of you are interpreting quotes of first responders a certain way. I acknowledge that there are several statements from firefighters saying that they personally agreed that the building was jeopardy because of the damage and/or warning signs they observed. But you should also realize that A. These statements were made in hindsight, in some cases years later. It is important to be conscious on how hindsight can affect a witness statement. B. Within the firefighter community, and generally the community of first responders on the day of 9/11/2001, you may observe that they are more likely to talk in terms of first person "We".
Just wow. What's the point of lying about quotes we've all read? You must just be out of your mind. There is no quote where anyone says the decision to evacuate the area around WTC7 was a result of the advice of the engineer consulted by Hayden. What are we supposed to do but just mock your ridiculousness at this point? You're just crazy and pathetic to keep up the lie at this point.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 09:39 AM   #325
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Pgimeno and others should be reminded that the North Tower collapsed at 10:28 A.M., making the first instance of WTC 7 foreknowledge educated prediction of collapse only about an hour later.
FTFY
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Old 22nd October 2017, 11:11 AM   #326
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
sigh What statements from first responders do you think indicate more damage than what photographs we have of the south facade and southwest corner?
The massive gouges torn out of the top 1/4 to 1/3 of the building. The massive gouge that created a stack effect. The stack effect fire in the building with no fire suppression or active firefighting efforts ongoing within it.

Dots connected sufficiently?

Sent from my SM-J327P using Tapatalk
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Old 22nd October 2017, 11:32 AM   #327
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
And I like the way you continue to insist the evacuation was carried out because of the special engineer's advice and pretending the statements prove it, even though none of them actually say that. Most liars don't point to the proof that they're lying and pretend it's proof they're telling the truth.

Dave
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
That's literally what FDNY chief Peter Hayden and firefighter Michael Currid said. ...
Last you quoted Hayden, curiously you left out the very part where he literally said "that", i.e. what David paraphrased: that "the evacuation was carried out because of the special engineer's advice". Here, I quote fully how you quoted Hayden:

Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
"Chief of Department Peter Hayden consulted with an engineer:

We posed to him the question that considering the structural damage that was obvious to the – to the building on the southwest corner, and the amount of fire damage that was occurring within the building, could we anticipate a collapse and if so, when. He said yes and he gave an approximate time of five to six hours, which was pretty much right on the money because the building collapsed about 5 o’clock that afternoon
"

https://web.archive.org/web/20150802154917/http://www.ca2.uscourts.gov/decisions/isysquery/a3c33b98-9cbf-4b82-b557-6088e207c8f6/1/doc/11-4403_complete_opn.pdf

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal...013-12-04.html

Peter Hayden on BBC's 2008 program The Conspiracy Files: The Truth Behind The Third Tower:

"We were concerned of the possibility of collapse of the building. And we had a discussion with one particular engineer there, and we asked him, 'if we allowed it to burn could we anticipate a collapse, and if so, how soon?' And it turned out that he was pretty much right on the money, that he said, ‘In its current state, you have about five hours.’"
Could you please highlight in the quote where "literally what FDNY chief Peter Hayden ... said" is what David paraphrased - that the evacuation was done because of what the engineer said to Hayden!
Alternatively, provide another quote where Hayden literally said that.
Alternatively, admit that Hayden did NOT literally say that!
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Old 22nd October 2017, 11:34 AM   #328
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
sigh What statements from first responders do you think indicate more damage than what photographs we have of the south facade and southwest corner?
That picture has been POSTED ON THIS VERY FORUM A FEW HUNDRED TIMES.

You have an obligation to read old threads before spouting off in this place.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 11:57 AM   #329
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Pgimeno and others should be reminded that the North Tower collapsed at 10:28 A.M., making the first instance of WTC 7 foreknowledge only about an hour later.
You keep saying that:

Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Everything you mentioned would be a hindrance to accurately predicting when a building will collapse. So you are basically admitting that the special engineer only got it right out of sheer luck.

I repeat: the special engineer predicted at about 11:30 AM that the building would collapse "in about five or six hours". The building collapsed five and a half hours later, at 5:21 PM.
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
OH. MY. GOD. Just check the reddit post I linked. The spokesman of the FDNY literally said that the first evacuation of WTC 7 due to concerns of structural failure was at 11:30 AM.

5:21 PM - 5 hours = 12:21 PM
5:21 PM - 6 hours = 11:21 AM
5:00 PM - 5 hours = 12:00 PM
5:00 PM - 6 hours = 11:00 AM
But I so for did not spot where anyone said, literally, "11:30 a.m.".
Here is what you quoted about that engineer:

Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
"Chief of Department Peter Hayden consulted with an engineer:

We posed to him the question that considering the structural damage that was obvious to the – to the building on the southwest corner, and the amount of fire damage that was occurring within the building, could we anticipate a collapse and if so, when. He said yes and he gave an approximate time of five to six hours, which was pretty much right on the money because the building collapsed about 5 o’clock that afternoon
"

https://web.archive.org/web/20150802154917/http://www.ca2.uscourts.gov/decisions/isysquery/a3c33b98-9cbf-4b82-b557-6088e207c8f6/1/doc/11-4403_complete_opn.pdf

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal...013-12-04.html

Peter Hayden on BBC's 2008 program The Conspiracy Files: The Truth Behind The Third Tower:

"We were concerned of the possibility of collapse of the building. And we had a discussion with one particular engineer there, and we asked him, 'if we allowed it to burn could we anticipate a collapse, and if so, how soon?' And it turned out that he was pretty much right on the money, that he said, ‘In its current state, you have about five hours.’"
From the highlighted portions of the very statements you allude to,
  1. What was the state of the fires in WTC7 according to the FDNY officers? Be as specific as you can!
  2. Was the engineer consulted before or after the FDNY chiefs became worried about the fire situation?
  3. At what time was the fire situation that Hayden alludes to in your quote observed, according to your best estimate, considering all the evidence you have?
As so often, I'll make it easy on you:
1. There obvious was a major fire already in the building that, according to the professional judgement of experienced fire officers at the scene were already acruing structural damage inside, so much so that collapse needed to be considered
2. The engineer, according to the quotes you thankfully provide was consulted because of the acruing fire damage and thus AFTER WTC7 was involved in very serious fires.
3. I don't know - we cannot know with confidence. Yes, Hayden paraphrased the engineer, saying "approximate time of five to six hours, which was pretty much right on the money". But this, first, was a rough estimate that you can translate, if you must, to "approximately 11:21 to 12:21" (and NOT "literally 11:30", as you lied). But then you must accept that before that time, the building was already involved in structurally crippling fires. But you want to insinuate there were no visibly fires before noon, so you must accept that Hayden's recollection was literally mistaken. Which is actually rather common with human recollection, particularly when estimates of time are involved.

Anecdote:
In 1992, there was the only major earthquake during my lifetime in my home region, very early in the morning. At lunchtime, I overheard a couple of workers talking about it - one had completely slept through it and asked his buddy how long the ground shook. Answer: "Not long, only perhaps 2 minutes".
In reality, the earthquake lasted a mere 10-15 seconds, depending on location. Eight hours after the fact, the guy got his recollected time estimate wrong by a factor of 10! That's how reliable such numbers are!

Hayden had cause to remember well the logical sequence of events - first fire, then consultation about the possible effects of the fire. There is no reason to assume he remembered a duration, whether estimated or observed, correctly.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 01:04 PM   #330
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Pgimeno and others should be reminded that the North Tower collapsed at 10:28 A.M., making the first instance of WTC 7 foreknowledge only about an hour later.
Foreknowledge of what? WTC7 was already in fire before WTC1 collapsed. After more than an hour of burning out of control (from some point before 10:28am to about 11:30am), it's reasonable to assume that the fire would have extended to a point such that the firefighters alone, without the need of help from an engineer, could figure out that it was dangerous to put more effort into it. Yet you seem to think that an engineer that confirmed their suspicion (which is why they asked him) is evidence of foreknowledge. That's not just paranoid, it's insane.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 01:49 PM   #331
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"Foreknowledge" was informed by a group of professionals with many years relevant experience all concurring based on that accumulation of expertise that an out of control fire had made a building dangerously unstable.

Professionals doing what professionals do in the interest of safety.

This has now been established beyond all reasonable doubt. That should be the end of it. MJ, not being reasonable, should at this point be ignored unless he has something new to add to the discussion to make whatever point it is NJ thinks he is trying to make. I don't see that happening. Further indulgence of the current line of non-reasoning is pointless.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 02:29 PM   #332
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
That picture has been POSTED ON THIS VERY FORUM A FEW HUNDRED TIMES.

You have an obligation to read old threads before spouting off in this place.
Axxman, do you believe that there were several columns destroyed in the middle of the south side instead of just the one? We have photographs of a vertical black line down the face of WTC 7, and when enhanced they show sections of floors so it's probably a single column that went totally missing the whole side.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 02:36 PM   #333
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Axxman, do you believe that there were several columns destroyed in the middle of the south side instead of just the one? We have photographs of a vertical black line down the face of WTC 7, and when enhanced they show sections of floors so it's probably a single column that went totally missing the whole side.
That's another MicahJava signature; any time he gets called on his lies, omissions or evasions, he immediately changes the subject by asking a direct question of the person who just called him out. It's his own personal interpretation of the Gish Gallop, and he'll probably do it in reply to this post too.

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Old 22nd October 2017, 02:42 PM   #334
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Originally Posted by Mark F View Post
"Foreknowledge" was informed by a group of professionals with many years relevant experience all concurring based on that accumulation of expertise that an out of control fire had made a building dangerously unstable.

Professionals doing what professionals do in the interest of safety.

This has now been established beyond all reasonable doubt. That should be the end of it. MJ, not being reasonable, should at this point be ignored unless he has something new to add to the discussion to make whatever point it is NJ thinks he is trying to make. I don't see that happening. Further indulgence of the current line of non-reasoning is pointless.
An hour after the second tower collapsed?
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Old 22nd October 2017, 02:43 PM   #335
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Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
Foreknowledge of what? WTC7 was already in fire before WTC1 collapsed. After more than an hour of burning out of control (from some point before 10:28am to about 11:30am), it's reasonable to assume that the fire would have extended to a point such that the firefighters alone, without the need of help from an engineer, could figure out that it was dangerous to put more effort into it. Yet you seem to think that an engineer that confirmed their suspicion (which is why they asked him) is evidence of foreknowledge. That's not just paranoid, it's insane.
Since NIST has agreed that the fires could not have spread floor-by-floor, what relevancy is a single fire from a diesel tank on a single floor? I assume the diesel tanks are stored with come precaution, correct? And NIST also agreed that not only did the diesel tanks not have anything to do with the fires, but that WTC 7 had adequate fire-protective material on the steel.

The official story on the fires on all of the floors in WTC 7 is that they were basically started by smoldering nodules of plastic within the WTC 1 dust. I don't see how some some naturally-caused fired could not coexist with fires caused by arson as an explanation for the gaps in time before WTC 7 had fires on a few floors.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 02:44 PM   #336
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
That's another MicahJava signature; any time he gets called on his lies, omissions or evasions, he immediately changes the subject by asking a direct question of the person who just called him out. It's his own personal interpretation of the Gish Gallop, and he'll probably do it in reply to this post too.

Dave
Or I seriously do not understand what that guy is saying 90% of the time.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 02:46 PM   #337
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Last you quoted Hayden, curiously you left out the very part where he literally said "that", i.e. what David paraphrased: that "the evacuation was carried out because of the special engineer's advice". Here, I quote fully how you quoted Hayden:



Could you please highlight in the quote where "literally what FDNY chief Peter Hayden ... said" is what David paraphrased - that the evacuation was done because of what the engineer said to Hayden!
Alternatively, provide another quote where Hayden literally said that.
Alternatively, admit that Hayden did NOT literally say that!
The part you left out:

Originally Posted by MicahJava
I acknowledge that there are several statements from firefighters saying that they personally agreed that the building was jeopardy because of the damage and/or warning signs they observed. But you should also realize that A. These statements were made in hindsight, in some cases years later. It is important to be conscious on how hindsight can affect a witness statement. B. Within the firefighter community, and generally the community of first responders on the day of 9/11/2001, you may observe that they are more likely to talk in terms of first person "We".
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Old 22nd October 2017, 03:08 PM   #338
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Since NIST has agreed that the fires could not have spread floor-by-floor,
Where do they say this? I'll save you the trouble, they don't. You lie...............
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Old 22nd October 2017, 03:25 PM   #339
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
NIST also agreed that not only did the diesel tanks not have anything to do with the fires............
Are you going for most lies in a single post? This is another one and you know it...........
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Old 22nd October 2017, 03:30 PM   #340
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
The official story on the fires on all of the floors in WTC 7 is that they were basically started by smoldering nodules of plastic within the WTC 1 dust...
That's three............
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Old 22nd October 2017, 03:55 PM   #341
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Since NIST has agreed that the fires could not have spread floor-by-floor, what relevancy is a single fire from a diesel tank on a single floor?
Who said it was a diesel tank? The engineer said the generators got fire. He didn't mention a diesel tank. He just mentioned in passing the diesel fuel and the coolant as something that he imagined (but not saw) could make the fires worse. He never said a diesel tank got fire. He said he saw fire and that it was on the exit paths, including windows and stairwells.


Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
The official story on the fires on all of the floors in WTC 7 is that they were basically started by smoldering nodules of plastic within the WTC 1 dust. I don't see how some some naturally-caused fired could not coexist with fires caused by arson as an explanation for the gaps in time before WTC 7 had fires on a few floors.
Seriously? You can't imagine the fire lasting until the collapse of WTC 1, and the gash opened by WTC 1 helping the fire spread from floor to floor? Well, imagine that...
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Old 22nd October 2017, 04:27 PM   #342
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
The part you left out:
Strange. I can't see the Hayden quote in your post where he literally said "that" (decisions were taken becausr of what some engineer said to him). Almost as if what you said all along was false.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 04:56 PM   #343
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Axxman, do you believe that there were several columns destroyed in the middle of the south side instead of just the one? We have photographs of a vertical black line down the face of WTC 7, and when enhanced they show sections of floors so it's probably a single column that went totally missing the whole side.
I believe what the firefighter on scene that day said. The damage has been faithfully recreated in this computer simulation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAkTbyENZ5s&t=8s

I believe in the power of unchecked fire.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 05:12 PM   #344
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
An hour after the second tower collapsed?
Yes.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 10:04 PM   #345
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Guess what? None of them have to be lying to accept the truth about the special engineer as told by Chief Peter Hayden, Michael Currid and Shyam Sunder. It's just one of many overlooked part of a chapter in history. Overlooked because piecing it all together is uncomfortable for some.
Post the exact quotes of Currid and Sunder that you believe evidence that the engineer's evaluation was the reason for the evacuation of the area around WTC7. We've already checked the Hayden quotes and he does not say that, so feel free to stop lying about him any day now.

Piecing this all together is trivial for most and seemingly only uncomfortable for loons like you who would rather make stuff up to support the theories they have wasted years of their lives espousing.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 01:27 AM   #346
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
The part you left out:
Your hypocrisy is breathtaking. You're downplaying witness statements that were only made years after the event, while at the same time insisting that the witness statements about the special engineer, which were only made years after the event, are entirely correct and accurate. You're undermining your own argument, and you don't even realize it.

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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

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Old 23rd October 2017, 01:28 AM   #347
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Or I seriously do not understand what that guy is saying 90% of the time.
Based on your misinterpretation of the quotes you posted, I think you have a further reaching problem than that.

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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 23rd October 2017, 01:30 AM   #348
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
I don't see how some some naturally-caused fired could not coexist with fires caused by arson as an explanation for the gaps in time before WTC 7 had fires on a few floors.
That reminds me of something...

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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 23rd October 2017, 02:06 AM   #349
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post





We've seen your standard MO in the JFK threads: make up a lie that you want everyone to believe, insist that all the evidence supports it when it obviously doesn't, and accuse everyone else of misinterpreting the evidence. What I don't understand, though, is why you think it'll work.

Dave
Interesting as well that, in the JFK thread, MJ is insisting that 15, 20 or 30-year-old memories should be considered as completely accurate. Yet here....

Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
I did not. Perhaps Nigro should be asked about the special engineer so maybe if he met him he could clear things up as far as his 15-year-old memory will do.
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post

Also, I think some of you are interpreting quotes of first responders a certain way. I acknowledge that there are several statements from firefighters saying that they personally agreed that the building was jeopardy because of the damage and/or warning signs they observed. But you should also realize that A. These statements were made in hindsight, in some cases years later. It is important to be conscious on how hindsight can affect a witness statement. B. Within the firefighter community, and generally the community of first responders on the day of 9/11/2001, you may observe that they are more likely to talk in terms of first person "We".

MicahJava, perhaps you'd like to clarify yout position here. Are witness statements that are 15 years old reliable or not?
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Old 24th October 2017, 03:03 PM   #350
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Not from the quotes you posted.





We've seen your standard MO in the JFK threads: make up a lie that you want everyone to believe, insist that all the evidence supports it when it obviously doesn't, and accuse everyone else of misinterpreting the evidence. What I don't understand, though, is why you think it'll work.

Dave
He thinks it will work due to extreme optimism, reinforced by a complete lack of understanding of what actually constitutes good evidence and the fact that whatever cherry-picked BS he is citing convinced him.
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Old 25th October 2017, 03:49 AM   #351
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
They just stole that from an old Onion article.

https://www.theonion.com/government-...nor-1819577326
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Old 25th October 2017, 03:52 AM   #352
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Apparently the people on this thread don't event think it's a good idea to interview the special engineer if he's still around. How could someone deny history such an important star witness?
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Old 25th October 2017, 04:10 AM   #353
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Apparently the people on this thread don't event think it's a good idea to interview the special engineer if he's still around. How could someone deny history such an important star witness?
Strawman.
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Old 25th October 2017, 04:10 AM   #354
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
They just stole that from an old Onion article.

https://www.theonion.com/government-...nor-1819577326
The Onion article is dated 1/06/15; the XKCD article came out in January 2010. This seems in keeping with the usual standard of your research.

Dave
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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 25th October 2017, 04:13 AM   #355
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Apparently the people on this thread don't event think it's a good idea to interview the special engineer if he's still around. How could someone deny history such an important star witness?
Who do you think should carry out the investigation that would seek out and interview this engineer? What powers should the party carrying out this investigation possess, and from what legal authority should they be derived?

Dave
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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 25th October 2017, 12:05 PM   #356
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Apparently the people on this thread don't event think it's a good idea to interview the special engineer if he's still around. How could someone deny history such an important star witness?
How exactly is he/she important, let alone a star witness? A "star witness" for who?
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Old 25th October 2017, 01:02 PM   #357
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Imagine applying the same logic to any other investigation. Say an auto crash scene.

Police take statements that day, and interview 10 witnesses whose stories all agree (for the most part, there are always a few minor differences in eyewitness accounts). They all say Car A ran a stop sign and hit Car B. Some report that Car A was going faster than would be expected when it approached the stop sign.

A year or so later, one guy seems to remember that "my friend told me he knew that car was going to run the stop sign, it was going way too fast.".

Now, there's this clamor to find the mysterious friend, as if this will crack the case wide open.

Sorry, but no.
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Old 25th October 2017, 01:06 PM   #358
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
Imagine applying the same logic to any other investigation. Say an auto crash scene.

Police take statements that day, and interview 10 witnesses whose stories all agree (for the most part, there are always a few minor differences in eyewitness accounts). They all say Car A ran a stop sign and hit Car B. Some report that Car A was going faster than would be expected when it approached the stop sign.

A year or so later, one guy seems to remember that "my friend told me he knew that car was going to run the stop sign, it was going way too fast.".

Now, there's this clamor to find the mysterious friend, as if this will crack the case wide open.

Sorry, but no.
Don't forget that, to make the analogy more accurate, the driver of car A also admitted he ran the stop sign.

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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 25th October 2017, 01:36 PM   #359
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
Imagine applying the same logic to any other investigation. Say an auto crash scene.

Police take statements that day, and interview 10 witnesses whose stories all agree (for the most part, there are always a few minor differences in eyewitness accounts). They all say Car A ran a stop sign and hit Car B. Some report that Car A was going faster than would be expected when it approached the stop sign.

A year or so later, one guy seems to remember that "my friend told me he knew that car was going to run the stop sign, it was going way too fast.".

Now, there's this clamor to find the mysterious friend, as if this will crack the case wide open.

Sorry, but no.
More to the point w/ CTists, Take a residential structure fire with a fatality.

Fire Marshal makes their investigation, County Coroner makes their investigation.

Finding: Electrical fire, victim died from smoke inhalation.

CTist: Mr. Fire Marshal, did you investigate the possibility of this fire being the result of Spontaneous Human Combustion?

FM. No. The fire initiated at a short in a kitchen electrical outlet. The victim wasn't burned as the Fire department was able to knock down the fire before it reached the bedroom where the victim was sleeping.

CTist: Incomplete investigation! Cover-up! ergh! (men in white jackets intercede.)

Now that's good 'ol CTist sop!
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Old 25th October 2017, 01:58 PM   #360
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Apparently the people on this thread don't event think it's a good idea to interview the special engineer if he's still around. How could someone deny history such an important star witness?
Have at it. I don't see anything stopping you. I trust you will let us all know how it went.

Now then, if we are done flogging this dead horse what was the topic of this thread again?
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