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Old 17th November 2020, 04:10 AM   #2161
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Next Brexiters will be expecting Champagne to be made in Birmingham

All you need is bottle wine and a soda stream.
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Old 17th November 2020, 05:25 AM   #2162
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
November 2020 "The largest trade deal in history has been signed, with 15 countries including Australia agreeing to the pact, which covers 30 per cent of the global economy.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-...-deal/12885666

Well it's obvious. Australia is going for the full complete set of trade deals trading cards with every country in the world.


(I'm a little sad, in that I'm an Aussie, and I bought an excellent Bellings oven, manufactured in the UK. I hope leaving the EU does not put Bellings into financial hardship from a reduced market. It is a good and cost effective oven and the last oven still manufactured in the UK.)
Obviously the trade deal took 10 years to negotiate because of the excessive bureaucracy of the EU otherwise it would have been done in no time.
Oh wait, the EU weren’t involved. Could it be that trade deals are a bit complicated?
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Old 17th November 2020, 06:05 AM   #2163
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They wouldn't be complicated if the rest of the world just realised that we are special, and they should just do as we ask.

It's not difficult.

Bloody foreigners...
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Old 17th November 2020, 03:01 PM   #2164
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DfE tells schools to stock up on long-life products in case of no-deal Brexit

https://theguardian.com/education/20...ational-impact

Rather see children starve than compromise
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Old 17th November 2020, 03:09 PM   #2165
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
DfE tells schools to stock up on long-life products in case of no-deal Brexit

https://theguardian.com/education/20...ational-impact

Rather see children starve than compromise
And it's the schools' responsibility to see to it that the kids have a balanced, nutritious diet, post-Brexit. If they fail it's all their fault. After all they've just been given, oh, 6 weeks warning?
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Old 17th November 2020, 03:56 PM   #2166
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
DfE tells schools to stock up on long-life products in case of no-deal Brexit

https://theguardian.com/education/20...ational-impact

Rather see children starve than compromise

From the same article:
Quote:
The guidance came as a new letter from police chiefs warned that a no-deal Brexit would cause “major” operational damage to their ability to fight crime and terrorism.

Never mind, at least we’ll have taken back control of our borders. Who cares if we might not know who is crossing them?
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Old 17th November 2020, 04:30 PM   #2167
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
From the same article:


Never mind, at least we’ll have taken back control of our borders. Who cares if we might not know who is crossing them?
No, you misunderstand! Taking control of borders means having the ability to make new ones! Like around Kent!
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Old 18th November 2020, 06:39 AM   #2168
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
Obviously the trade deal took 10 years to negotiate because of the excessive bureaucracy of the EU otherwise it would have been done in no time.
Oh wait, the EU weren’t involved. Could it be that trade deals are a bit complicated?
They are if you make your own, the UK seems to think they can just borrow the EU's homework and turn it in like it's their own instead of doing any work of it's own.
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Old 18th November 2020, 08:50 AM   #2169
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Just been down a Twitter rabbit hole over the tag #sainsburysadvert.
People are really boycotting a store because their Xmas advert features a black family?
This what we have become as a nation, Brexit seems to have legitimised this.
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Old 18th November 2020, 09:12 AM   #2170
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
More serious is baby milk powder production. UK imports 90%
Oh dear.
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Old 18th November 2020, 09:17 AM   #2171
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Just been down a Twitter rabbit hole over the tag #sainsburysadvert.
People are really boycotting a store because their Xmas advert features a black family?
This what we have become as a nation, Brexit seems to have legitimised this.
We had a spot of that last year when GoD, our resident fascist/racist/xenophobic nutter, started hurling insults at a mixed race family who took part in Lidl ads.
But there's a lot of cross-over between racist nuts and Brexiteers.


Edited by Agatha:  Edited to remove call-out in breach of rule 12
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

Last edited by Agatha; 23rd November 2020 at 01:12 PM.
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Old 20th November 2020, 08:42 AM   #2172
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From October, Brompton bikes owner, who previously was relaxed about Brexit, now realises that the UK could be flooded with cheap Chinese* imports:

Quote:
British bike makers face a wave of cheap Chinese imports after Brexit, as EU anti-dumping rules are dropped by the U.K.
https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/foldi...brexit-u-turn/

It seems those protection rules the EU have for our manufacturing were actually rather useful.

Note that Brompton weren't exactly a pro-Brexit company like Weatherspoons, but it seems they've suddenly realised how useful the EU's protection have been. Also, my sister loves Brompton bikes, and so will be gutted if/when they fold due to this (edit: Just realised pun).

* - When I say China, we should also include a whole list of developing countries who would want to flood the UK with cheap bikes (see link).
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Last edited by wobs; 20th November 2020 at 10:00 AM.
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Old 20th November 2020, 09:46 AM   #2173
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You'll never guess what those evil euros are doing now! Apparently they have a plan for what to do in case of a no-deal Brexit. A plan! Not only that they are making the details of this plan public so that citizens and business will know what to do in Jan. Do you realize how utterly unfair and underhanded this is? The Daily Express assures me that Britons are outraged over this turn of events.

You'd certainly never catch Boris Johnson making a plan or informing the country of what they need to do post Brexit.
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Old 20th November 2020, 09:49 AM   #2174
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the Chinese don't have that many surplus bikes ...

oh wait, they do:

https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/20...cycles/556268/
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Old 20th November 2020, 05:25 PM   #2175
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Originally Posted by wobs View Post
From October, Brompton bikes owner, who previously was relaxed about Brexit, now realises that the UK could be flooded with cheap Chinese* imports:



https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/foldi...brexit-u-turn/

It seems those protection rules the EU have for our manufacturing were actually rather useful.

Note that Brompton weren't exactly a pro-Brexit company like Weatherspoons, but it seems they've suddenly realised how useful the EU's protection have been. Also, my sister loves Brompton bikes, and so will be gutted if/when they fold due to this (edit: Just realised pun).

* - When I say China, we should also include a whole list of developing countries who would want to flood the UK with cheap bikes (see link).
Most carbon frames come from the Far East even on the high end 'hand built' stuff.
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Old 21st November 2020, 02:26 AM   #2176
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Originally Posted by wobs View Post
From October, Brompton bikes owner, who previously was relaxed about Brexit, now realises that the UK could be flooded with cheap Chinese* imports:



https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/foldi...brexit-u-turn/

It seems those protection rules the EU have for our manufacturing were actually rather useful.

Note that Brompton weren't exactly a pro-Brexit company like Weatherspoons, but it seems they've suddenly realised how useful the EU's protection have been. Also, my sister loves Brompton bikes, and so will be gutted if/when they fold due to this (edit: Just realised pun).

* - When I say China, we should also include a whole list of developing countries who would want to flood the UK with cheap bikes (see link).
Happened decades ago. From the UK being a leading manufacturing country, it has gone to being a services led economy. The huge Lancashire clothing and textile industries were outsourced to China ages ago, this is why it became an emerging economy. Manufacturers realised they could get labour and materials at a fraction of the costs they were paying in Kirby or on Merseyside. 'Twas e'er thus.

This is why Corbyn was pro-Brexit. He sees the EU as a commercial consortium out to bring down the cost of labour and materials for the benefit of the capitalists. It is little wonder that Trade Unions and the working classes have always had an aura of anti-(cheap) foreign (labour) militancy about them, not dissimilar to the far right.
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Old 21st November 2020, 03:05 AM   #2177
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Just been down a Twitter rabbit hole over the tag #sainsburysadvert.
People are really boycotting a store because their Xmas advert features a black family?
This what we have become as a nation, Brexit seems to have legitimised this.
TFW you find a family of carrots more relatable than a family of black people.
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Old 21st November 2020, 03:06 AM   #2178
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
the Chinese don't have that many surplus bikes ...

oh wait, they do:

https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/20...cycles/556268/
There are 9 million bicycles in Bejing, or so I'm reliably informed.
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Old 21st November 2020, 02:16 PM   #2179
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We’ve got a “rollover” deal with Canada, so same deal as we had whilst in the EU. I expect to see the Brexiters screaming this is a betrayal as we know the deals we made as part of the the EU robbed us of our “ national sovereignty” so presumable the same will be true about this rollover deal.
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Old 21st November 2020, 04:02 PM   #2180
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Apparently preserving most but not all of what we already have with Canada is 'a fantastic trade agreement for Britain'

Brexit, the gift that never stops taking

Liz Truss tweeted
Today the UK and Canada have agreed a vital trade continuity agreement.
This deal means:
Certainty for businesses and industry
A foundation for a new, advanced trade deal
and brings us one step closer to joining the Trans-Pacific Partnership.
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Old 21st November 2020, 06:40 PM   #2181
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
TFW you find a family of carrots more relatable than a family of black people.
Vegetables...
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Old 21st November 2020, 06:55 PM   #2182
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Originally Posted by wobs View Post
From October, Brompton bikes owner, who previously was relaxed about Brexit, now realises that the UK could be flooded with cheap Chinese* imports:



https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/foldi...brexit-u-turn/

It seems those protection rules the EU have for our manufacturing were actually rather useful.

Note that Brompton weren't exactly a pro-Brexit company like Weatherspoons, but it seems they've suddenly realised how useful the EU's protection have been. Also, my sister loves Brompton bikes, and so will be gutted if/when they fold due to this (edit: Just realised pun).

* - When I say China, we should also include a whole list of developing countries who would want to flood the UK with cheap bikes (see link).
On the last point, most of the countries on the list were first brought up in those terms while I was in Brussels. I would guess 2012. They’re transshipment countries for China for certain goods, to get around country-based tariff. Chinese company ships a load of bikes to, say, Indonesia where it doesn’t face a punitive tariff, and from where the EU doesn’t impose a tariff on imports. Stick a sticker on, or screw a couple of bits together, and under WTO rules of origin you can (only somewhat dubiously, but that’s a WTO issue) describe the bike as originating in Indonesia.

Then you just pretend that stuff is happening in Indonesia, and you just let the bikes rest there for a few days before sending it on with the ‘right’ documentation. The EU got wise to this, hence the wording “whether declared as originating in Indonesia, Malaysia, Sri Lanka and Tunisia or not”. I’d guess therefore that those countries would no longer need to be listed, because Chinese companies would just ship directly.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 08:09 AM   #2183
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Marr' What will be the effect of a no-deal on the economy next year?

Rishi Sunak, We will prosper in any eventuality but the biggest effect on our economy will be coronavirus & not Brexit
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Old 22nd November 2020, 09:54 AM   #2184
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Marr' What will be the effect of a no-deal on the economy next year?

Rishi Sunak, We will prosper in any eventuality but the biggest effect on our economy will be coronavirus & not Brexit
I suppose.

Brexit is likely to have a much worse long-term impact though. The economic effects of Covid (apart from paying back the debt) will be over in a matter of years. Brexit will be a millstone around the UK's neck for decades.

I wish someone would tell me how the UK will prosper in the event of a no-deal Brexit because it's not clear to me.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 10:26 AM   #2185
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Marr' What will be the effect of a no-deal on the economy next year?

Rishi Sunak, We will prosper in any eventuality but the biggest effect on our economy will be coronavirus & not Brexit
Fortunately your government has both well in hand.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 03:09 PM   #2186
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Happened decades ago. From the UK being a leading manufacturing country, it has gone to being a services led economy. The huge Lancashire clothing and textile industries were outsourced to China ages ago, this is why it became an emerging economy. Manufacturers realised they could get labour and materials at a fraction of the costs they were paying in Kirby or on Merseyside. 'Twas e'er thus.

This is why Corbyn was pro-Brexit. He sees the EU as a commercial consortium out to bring down the cost of labour and materials for the benefit of the capitalists. It is little wonder that Trade Unions and the working classes have always had an aura of anti-(cheap) foreign (labour) militancy about them, not dissimilar to the far right.
The idea that the UK is no longer a manufacturing nation is a myth. We produce more stuff by value than we used to in the 1970s (inflation adjusted). The peak was far more recent than people think:
https://www.cps.org.uk/blog/q/date/2...egy-no-thanks/

We have a great deal to lose with Brexit.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 11:51 PM   #2187
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Originally Posted by wobs View Post
The idea that the UK is no longer a manufacturing nation is a myth. We produce more stuff by value than we used to in the 1970s (inflation adjusted). The peak was far more recent than people think:
https://www.cps.org.uk/blog/q/date/2...egy-no-thanks/

We have a great deal to lose with Brexit.
True, it's just that the service sector has grown so much more quickly and automation means that far fewer people are employed in manufacturing.
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Old 23rd November 2020, 07:23 AM   #2188
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Apparently preserving most but not all of what we already have with Canada is 'a fantastic trade agreement for Britain'

Brexit, the gift that never stops taking

Liz Truss tweeted
Today the UK and Canada have agreed a vital trade continuity agreement.
This deal means:
Certainty for businesses and industry
A foundation for a new, advanced trade deal
and brings us one step closer to joining the Trans-Pacific Partnership.
These rollover deals are easy for a reason. The country the UK is making them with (Canada in this case) has already made the concessions implicit in the deal in order to come to an agreement with the EU so there is no downside. Most of these concessions, however, would have benefited other regions of the EU so there would be little reason for the UK to ask for them if it were making a deal from scratch. Conversely, the UK is accepting restrictions for which it receives nothing in return (because only some of the concessions Canada made were negotiated to benefit the UK.

For example I think this is a big win for Canadian agriculture particularly in Western Canada. Agriculture in Western Canada is tuned to go head to head with US producers but without the subsidies the US producers receive. They mainly do this with economies of scale. Most land is either owned or leased by large operations farming a much as 10000 acres. Anything under 2000 acres is generally considered “too small”.

The main difficulty selling to the EU isn’t tariffs it’s structural barriers like animal welfare and GMO labeling where Canadian farmers generally adopt the lower US standards. Since it looks like the UK will drop or ease this type of restriction it should be relatively easy for these large scale operations to undercut the much smaller UK producers, and they don’t even need to do that to benefit. Simply filling the gap left as EU producers no longer receive preferential status should be a win for Western Canada, and Canada didn’t need to make any additional concessions.
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Old 23rd November 2020, 07:30 AM   #2189
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Originally Posted by gypsyjackson View Post
On the last point, most of the countries on the list were first brought up in those terms while I was in Brussels. I would guess 2012. They’re transshipment countries for China for certain goods, to get around country-based tariff. Chinese company ships a load of bikes to, say, Indonesia where it doesn’t face a punitive tariff, and from where the EU doesn’t impose a tariff on imports. Stick a sticker on, or screw a couple of bits together, and under WTO rules of origin you can (only somewhat dubiously, but that’s a WTO issue) describe the bike as originating in Indonesia.

Then you just pretend that stuff is happening in Indonesia, and you just let the bikes rest there for a few days before sending it on with the ‘right’ documentation. The EU got wise to this, hence the wording “whether declared as originating in Indonesia, Malaysia, Sri Lanka and Tunisia or not”. I’d guess therefore that those countries would no longer need to be listed, because Chinese companies would just ship directly.
IMO this is more or less what Brexit leaders thought the UK would be allowed to do post Brexit. The EU meanwhile is cognisant of the potential problem and isn't going to enter a deal that allows it. Eg the requirement that the UK can't have other agreements in effect until after it's left the common market.
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Old 23rd November 2020, 07:45 AM   #2190
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Originally Posted by gypsyjackson View Post
On the last point, most of the countries on the list were first brought up in those terms while I was in Brussels. I would guess 2012. They’re transshipment countries for China for certain goods, to get around country-based tariff. Chinese company ships a load of bikes to, say, Indonesia where it doesn’t face a punitive tariff, and from where the EU doesn’t impose a tariff on imports. Stick a sticker on, or screw a couple of bits together, and under WTO rules of origin you can (only somewhat dubiously, but that’s a WTO issue) describe the bike as originating in Indonesia.
The Brompton issue is a bit different, though, and is more to do with intellectual property rights. Brompton have a lot of IP protection around their design, and aggressively pursue anyone who violates their patents or copyright. Leaving the EU will make that a lot harder, allowing cheaper knock-offs to compete for the market whatever the situation with tariffs. There are other, and cheaper, folding bikes, but Brompton have the USP that their triple fold design allows them to fold smaller than the competitors.

Dave
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Old 23rd November 2020, 07:57 AM   #2191
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
The Brompton issue is a bit different, though, and is more to do with intellectual property rights. Brompton have a lot of IP protection around their design, and aggressively pursue anyone who violates their patents or copyright. Leaving the EU will make that a lot harder, allowing cheaper knock-offs to compete for the market whatever the situation with tariffs. There are other, and cheaper, folding bikes, but Brompton have the USP that their triple fold design allows them to fold smaller than the competitors.

Dave
Does the UK have a plan to deal with Patents at all? The wiki page says the UK wants to remain part of the EU patent system, but how can that happen post Brexit? Does the UK still have it's own infrastructure for issuing patents independent of the EU? Has there been any guidance on how to apply for patents post Brexit?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitary_patent
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Old 23rd November 2020, 08:40 AM   #2192
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Based on everything else so far?
No...
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Old 23rd November 2020, 08:44 AM   #2193
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Does the UK have a plan to deal with Patents at all? The wiki page says the UK wants to remain part of the EU patent system, but how can that happen post Brexit? Does the UK still have it's own infrastructure for issuing patents independent of the EU? Has there been any guidance on how to apply for patents post Brexit?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitary_patent
Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
Based on everything else so far?
No...
.....or we'll rely upon Johnny Foreigner unilaterally respecting UK patents whilst leaving the UK to play fast and loose with their patents.
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Old 23rd November 2020, 08:45 AM   #2194
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Does the UK have a plan [...]
There's your problem, right there.

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Old 23rd November 2020, 09:43 AM   #2195
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
There's your problem, right there.

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A plan that is unworkable, childish and has no chance of working is still a plan. There is also the possibility that there are still some competent some senior bureaucrats left and one of these has been working on a plan behind the scenes. We hear about these all the time. (Usually after they resign because the government is ignoring their advice)
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Old 23rd November 2020, 10:02 AM   #2196
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
A plan that is unworkable, childish and has no chance of working is still a plan. There is also the possibility that there are still some competent some senior bureaucrats left and one of these has been working on a plan behind the scenes. We hear about these all the time. (Usually after they resign because the government is ignoring their advice)
I'm in the group that distinguishes a "plan" from an "idea."

I will, provisionally, accept Brexit (in its current form) described as a very thorough cocktail napkin sketch with lots of things crossed out and/or re-written over.

Last edited by Delphic Oracle; 23rd November 2020 at 10:04 AM.
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Old 24th November 2020, 04:46 AM   #2197
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Looks like the UK is perfectly ready for the effects of a no-deal Brexit

Quote:
Hauliers have claimed there will be "mayhem" at Holyhead port when the Brexit transition period ends.

Holyhead is the second biggest "roll-on roll-off" port in the UK after Dover, carrying 1,200 lorries and trailers a day across the Irish Sea.

The Irish Road Haulage Association (IRHA) said the first six months of 2021 would be "terrible" as the port is not ready to cope with the change.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55046594

According to the port, everything is fine.

Quote:
Ian Davies, Stena Line's head of UK Port Authorities, said he was confident despite "very, very tight" timescales.

He said: "We are live testing in the next two weeks. We're starting to educate our staff on the new checking processes.
That's frightening and leaves no time to fix problems that arise.
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Old 24th November 2020, 04:58 AM   #2198
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It’s a private company so by natural law it will be OK.
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Old 24th November 2020, 04:23 PM   #2199
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Jams of lorries for miles along the motorways of Kent today when France did a trial of the new post Brexit customs procedures.
Doesn't bode well.

UK hasn't even got a post Brexit procedure to trial yet.
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Old 24th November 2020, 04:27 PM   #2200
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Jams of lorries for miles along the motorways of Kent today
Innovative jams?

I find it hard to believe, though. Brexit is jam tomorrow, never jam today.
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