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Tags 2020 elections , donald trump , election conspiracies , Trump controversies , Trump supporters

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Old 12th November 2020, 10:56 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Key quote from that article:



According to Ballotpedia:



If you scroll down to the table of deadlines, one can see the deadline for Certification Dates are anything between now and 3 Dec 2020.


So, on or after - whichever is sooner - if there is to be a coup d'état, we can expect Trump to tweet the following:


'I WIN! THIS IS A COO! BIG PRESS CONFERENCE 11:00 FOUR SEASONS HOTEL'


This will be amusing and will generate no end of twitter memes. However, as much as Trump is portrayed as an idiot, there is also a sinister element to this, which I think insiders are taking very seriously, whilst feigning nonchalance.
Biden is publicly taking the stance, "Of course I won and I'll be President on Jan. 20.". This is exactly the stance he should be taking. I sincerely hope that, behind the scenes, he's making sure that generals and federal law enforcement will back him up.
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Old 12th November 2020, 11:36 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You're doing the same thing as TA, assuming voters for Trump equate to being in the cult. They're not.
Yhis.A lot of Trump voters don't like Trump, but think Biden is worse.
I think this is stupid and hopelessly wrong headed, but it's not the same as being a Cult member. They will drop Trump once he loses.
But there is a hard core that is a Personality cult. They are dangerous.
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Old 12th November 2020, 11:38 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
I am surprised that the stupid, idiotic, lying, POS Trump has not yet claimed that there is not some sort of 'Deep State Conspiracy' which made him lose the election.

After all, since Trump has claimed that he is a very "stable genius", then he is quite unable to admit the simple fact that he ever did anything that is wrong.
Oh , that will come.
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Old 12th November 2020, 12:22 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
They will drop Trump once he loses.

So why didn't they?
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Old 12th November 2020, 01:35 PM   #125
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Encouraging news from WH correspondent Peter Alexander:
https://twitter.com/PeterAlexander/s...55316483485701

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Old 12th November 2020, 01:37 PM   #126
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Theater that contributes to destruction of what passes for democracy in USA. Yay.
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Old 12th November 2020, 02:15 PM   #127
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Why does US political theatre always look like Rocky Horror?
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Old 12th November 2020, 02:34 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Why does US political theatre always look like Rocky Horror?
You overestimate the participants.

More like a plot devised by Wile E Coyote.
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Old 12th November 2020, 02:47 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
You overestimate the participants.

More like a plot devised by Wile E Coyote.
Come on...you can't picture the POTUS in fishnets?

I am truly looking forward to the dignity and decorum of a Biden Presidency.
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Old 12th November 2020, 02:59 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Mader Levap View Post
Theater that contributes to destruction of what passes for democracy in USA. Yay.
Liberals claim to be cultured. Can't enjoy theater. Probably because there aren't any singing homosexuals.
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Old 12th November 2020, 03:07 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by AnonyMoose View Post
Do you really truly honestly believe that this is just Trump throwing another hissy fit? Do you really truly honestly believe that the majority of the republican party would publicly air their fullblown support for something that amounts to nothing more than a hissy fit that has zero chance of getting anywhere?

Come on... surely you guys don't believe the GOP would be in support of something that has no means to an end?

The GOP are corrupt ********, yes, but they're not stupid corrupt ********. There's a difference.
Smart or not, the people he's putting in are dangerously unqualified to do much of anything. Guiliani's out yelling at clouds in a parking lot, his legal team has nothing, he's putting goofballs in charge on defense.

The big problem isn't a coup, it's an outside attack while he's busy hiding who knows what.

Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Oh , that will come.
Yep. I mean, if it hasn't already - I rarely bothered listening to his detached nonsense when he had just been inaugurated. Anything important gets into the news, the rest of his whiny jibber jabber is pointless to worry about.
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Old 12th November 2020, 03:17 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Liberals claim to be cultured. Can't enjoy theater. Probably because there aren't any singing homosexuals.
Does Lindsey Graham sing?
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Old 12th November 2020, 03:57 PM   #133
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Ending democracy would totally trigger the snowflake libs
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Old 12th November 2020, 04:31 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by portlandatheist View Post
Ending democracy would totally trigger the snowflake libs
Yeah, should be pretty funny.
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Old 12th November 2020, 04:51 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Fearmongers such as the Jones Day lawyer on Team Trump whom Axios has on background:
https://www.axios.com/trump-electora...a62fe5149.html
You know that entire article is pure speculation, right? I mean, it's completely a hypothetical from one end to the other. Sure, it's hypothetically possible... but it's still total speculation based on an unnamed lawyer who "knows how these things work".

Just... exercise some skepticism and don't wear yourself out panicking about something that is really unlikely to occur.
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Old 12th November 2020, 04:52 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Yhis.A lot of Trump voters don't like Trump, but think Biden is worse.
I think this is stupid and hopelessly wrong headed, but it's not the same as being a Cult member. They will drop Trump once he loses.
But there is a hard core that is a Personality cult. They are dangerous.
No, not "Yhis"!

SG said the Trump Cult was shrinking. Do you see any evidence of this? I don't.

I'm not claiming that the votes necessarily represent the Cult of Trump, but the fact he got 10 million votes more this time than last time does NOT suggest to me that his Cult is shrinking.

Oh, but they think Biden is worse? Seriously, who is thinking this? How deluded would you have to be to think that not only is Biden worse than Trump, but after 4 years of a Trump administration, you come to that conclusion? Not only do they think Biden is so bad they would rather have Trump but 10 million more people think that than they thought about Hillary Clinton?

No, if you think the Cult is shrinking, then show your evidence. Because it looks more like a case of invasion of the bodysnatchers. People who used to be against Trump and had every reason to be against Trump are now in favour of him... Ted Cruz, despite having his wife mocked by Trump is now one of his hatchet men. Lindsey Graham, despite what he said about him at the beginning of the last administration? The Trump train convoys? He even has his own Cult of Personality network in OAN.

How is this Cult shrinking?
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Old 12th November 2020, 04:54 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Pretty sure Axios said precisely who is plotting.
Um, okay. Yes, they are speculating about something that Trump and his team could hypothetically try to do.

Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Also, it's not hypothetical. They are quoting someone from inside the team itself.
No, it's entirely hypothetical. The entire article is speculation about what could happen if some other thing happens if this other person does this other thing that they could possibly do.

Also, I can't find anything in that article that alleges that they're quoting from someone within Trump's team. The quotes are predominantly coming from "a lawyer" who "knows how this works". And even those quotes are hypotheticals from that lawyer.

It's given away by things like:

Quote:
In this long-shot scenario, Trump and his team could try to block secretaries of state in contested states from certifying results. That could allow legislatures in those states to try to appoint new electors who favor Trump over Biden.
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Old 12th November 2020, 04:59 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It was a Reuter's poll: 40% of Republicans and 70+% of everyone in the US thought it was over, he should step down.

The links are from multiple sources.

It doesn't matter how many votes he got. You are drawing an unsupported conclusion that voting for Trump means one is a Trump sycophant. They are not.
Agreed.
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Old 12th November 2020, 05:03 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
(Sychophants have nothing to do with it - the question is supporters, and voters clearly support him. Do you even know what sychophant means? It seems not, because you brought the term in, and it's simply straw.)
No, you're extrapolating here. People voting for Trump to be president doesn't in any fashion imply that those people would support him illegally hanging on to the position in opposition to a legitimate election.

That's where SG's polls come in. 70 million people voted for Trump to be president. That does not, however, suggest that all of them think he should stay president when he loses the vote. And of the 60% of Republicans who aren't saying he should step down right now, I would guess that most of those are waiting for the final counts and the challenges to be settled.

I would guess that the number of people who would support an illegal overthrow of the voting process are pretty few in number.
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Old 12th November 2020, 05:08 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
That is the difference between this election and 2000. In 2000, one state needed to be flipped, and the margin was less then 600 votes. Gore was right to want a recount. Where I think Gore screwed up was by trying to cherry pick precincts to recount. This undermined his credibility. Had he asked for a recount of the entire state, he would have looked less like he was trying to steal the election and still would very likely have won. In this election, it's at least three states all with margins of 10's to 100's of thousands of votes. It is unlikely in the extreme that Trump can get court rulings to flip or prevent certification in all of them (or any of them, really). I am concerned about what else he has up his sleeve. I don't think we should underestimate Trump. Though I like to refer to him as a moron or an idiot, I think he is actually fairly intelligent, though that intelligence is largely negated by ignorance and narcissism. However, he is not hampered by anything remotely resembling ethics.
I pretty much agree with this.

Although I'm not particularly concerned about whatever else Trump has up his sleeve. I don't think he can do much other than be very very annoying. Okay, well, he could cost us all money. That's really about it though.
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Old 12th November 2020, 05:10 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Why does US political theatre always look like Rocky Horror?
Dammit Janet!
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Old 12th November 2020, 05:11 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Come on...you can't picture the POTUS in fishnets?


Now I need mind bleach.
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Old 12th November 2020, 05:13 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Liberals claim to be cultured. Can't enjoy theater. Probably because there aren't any singing homosexuals.
But we can get whinging, whining walruses. Bravo!
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Old 12th November 2020, 05:13 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I don't believe that. Trump doesn't do anything for anyone else. Everything he does is for himself.
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Old 12th November 2020, 05:16 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I'm not claiming that the votes necessarily represent the Cult of Trump, but the fact he got 10 million votes more this time than last time does NOT suggest to me that his Cult is shrinking.
To be honest, it is hard to determine why he got more votes. Did amount of deplorables among republicans grew? Or maybe they were just more inclined to vote in 2020?

How do you distinguish these two cases? Note some mix of both is also possible.
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Old 12th November 2020, 05:18 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
And polls have been proven accurate time after time...

Ah, gotcha.

When you quote numbers, they mean what you want them to mean.

Sounds legit.

(Sychophants have nothing to do with it - the question is supporters, and voters clearly support him. Do you even know what sychophant means? It seems not, because you brought the term in, and it's simply straw.)
You'll figure it out.
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Old 12th November 2020, 05:19 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
At this point, I'm not sure whether there's a significant difference between Trump voters and cult members.
Of course there is.

You'll figure it out too.
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Old 12th November 2020, 05:22 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
This: "Pennsylvania rank and file lawmakers demand legislative audit before certifying election results" is not the same as, or even close to the assertion these legislators are planning to overturn the voters in their state and send their own electors to give PA to Trump.
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Old 12th November 2020, 05:25 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post


Now I need mind bleach.
Me too. I knew it was coming but couldn't avoid it. Kinda like a drum solo or orgasm.
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Old 12th November 2020, 05:27 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by portlandatheist View Post
Ending democracy would totally trigger the snowflake libs
Totally worth it, then.
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Old 12th November 2020, 05:27 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Don't make the mistake of thinking that every Biden voter is a steadfast, staunch, resolute Trump opponent if Trump takes control of the armed forces.
Why would I think it takes Biden supporters to prevent a Trump coup?

I'm pretty sure Trump does not have the support he needs in the military to pull off a coup. Yesterday I was concerned about it when he moved to replace the top level of civilian leadership of the Pentagon with his sycophants.

Today I am much less concerned.

Originally Posted by dann View Post
Did you notice how easy it was for guys like Graham and Cruz to change their attitudes to Trump once it became clear that he was in charge of the Republican Party?
And you think this is analogous, supporting Trump and supporting a coup?
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Old 12th November 2020, 05:44 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by Mader Levap View Post
To be honest, it is hard to determine why he got more votes. Did amount of deplorables among republicans grew? Or maybe they were just more inclined to vote in 2020?

How do you distinguish these two cases? Note some mix of both is also possible.
The claim that the Cult is shrinking is not mine. It is SG’s! How does she support her claim? That’s where the onus is!

She even points to the fact that 60% of Republicans don’t accept the result! That’s ridiculously high, and likely moving in the wrong direction. I am not going to accept Emily’s Cat’s bromides either.
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Old 12th November 2020, 05:48 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
I've been watching a few "conservative" discussion spaces.

Around when media started calling it, the prevailing narrative was that Trump had lost and should step down. Most of their posts were cheap digs at how they thought liberals would burn down cities if it had gone the other way, but they acknowledged the result.

That would explain a ~40% or so figure acknowledging the loss.
But those same spaces started shifting DRASTICALLY once Trump's campaign and lawyers and twitter started pushing the fraud narrative hard. The same group of people who initially thought it was over switched back to "Fight the liberal attempt to steal this election!" within a couple days.

They only conceded at the beginning because they hadn't received their strong marching orders to do otherwise.

I can't say what percentage is on board at this point, but I watched the shift happen in real time. The major conservative hubs onr reddit which were 100% "Guess we lost this one" are now 100% "Fight the democrat fraud!".
It's been 9 days since the election and ~6 since the election was called for Biden. It's no surprise that Trump supporters who at first recognized he lost, have begun to believe Trump's fantasy that it was a rigged election and he's going to prove it in court.

But the court cases are petering out and a lot of people who had renewed hope will begin to trail off by attrition. Then we are back to the hard core sycophants.

Reuters
Quote:
Nearly 80% of Americans, including more than half of Republicans, recognize Biden as the winner of the presidential election, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll published this week.
Republicans urge Trump to allow Biden briefings as U.S. election challenges sputter
Quote:
WASHINGTON/WILMINGTON, Del. (Reuters) - More Republican lawmakers said on Thursday the Trump administration should allow Joe Biden to receive intelligence briefings, in a tacit acknowledgement the Democrat may soon occupy the White House despite the president’s refusal to concede. ...

In a sign of weakening support for Trump’s efforts to claim widespread election fraud, Ohio’s Governor Mike DeWine, a Republican who endorsed Trump, on Thursday told CNN “we need to consider the former vice president as the president-elect.”

The Las Vegas Review-Journal, owned by major Republican donor Sheldon Adelson, ran an editorial saying Trump “seeks to delay the inevitable.”

“There is no evidence that fraud cost Mr. Trump the election, no matter how much the president tweets the opposite and his supporters wish it,” the editorial said.
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Old 12th November 2020, 05:51 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And the question is how far they will go and who will put a stop to them. ...
And how much power to they actually have? Not much.
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Old 12th November 2020, 05:52 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
No, you're extrapolating here. People voting for Trump to be president doesn't in any fashion imply that those people would support him illegally hanging on to the position in opposition to a legitimate election.

That's where SG's polls come in. 70 million people voted for Trump to be president. That does not, however, suggest that all of them think he should stay president when he loses the vote. And of the 60% of Republicans who aren't saying he should step down right now, I would guess that most of those are waiting for the final counts and the challenges to be settled.

I would guess that the number of people who would support an illegal overthrow of the voting process are pretty few in number.
I would guess... I would guess... sorry, who is extrapolating?
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Old 12th November 2020, 05:53 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
I'm pretty sure that preventing states from certifying is part of the plan. This could conceivably work for him either by getting a Republican legislature to choose electors for him, or preventing certification in enough states to prevent Biden from having an electoral majority, and putting the election into the House of Representatives, where, because the Constitution requires voting by state, Trump would likely win. In order to do this though, he is going to have to get lawsuits in multiple states that are not dismissed on first hearing. I think his chances of actually accomplishing it are pretty slim. I'm not sure what he will do once states have certified and the electoral college has voted. What I'm hoping for is that either he ends up getting dragged out of the White House in handcuffs on Jan. 20. I could see staff, cabinet, etc. humoring him right up until that moment, then all saying, "sorry, you're not the president any more."
So no states you can name then and provide evidence they plan to or are even considering overturning their state's vote?
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Old 12th November 2020, 05:55 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
And how much power to they actually have? Not much.
?????

State governors? the Senate? The Supreme Court? The President? How many divisions does the President have?
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 12th November 2020, 06:00 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Yhis.A lot of Trump voters don't like Trump, but think Biden is worse.
I think this is stupid and hopelessly wrong headed, but it's not the same as being a Cult member. They will drop Trump once he loses.
But there is a hard core that is a Personality cult. They are dangerous.
No doubt. Another whack-job was arrested today.

NYT: Man Arrested Over Threat to Schumer and Vow to ‘Blow Up’ F.B.I.
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Old 12th November 2020, 06:01 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Baby steps.
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Old 12th November 2020, 06:03 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Baby steps.
It’s not “baby steps”. That’s not Trump coming round to accepting his defeat. That is his aide saying “there’s nothing to see here!”

If you want to see Trump’s baby steps then check out his Twitter feed!
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