ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Economics, Business and Finance
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags bitcoin

Closed Thread
Old 6th January 2015, 04:57 PM   #401
jhunter1163
beer-swilling semiliterate
 
jhunter1163's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Connecticut, or King Arthur's Court. Hard to tell sometimes.
Posts: 25,097
Originally Posted by EGarrett View Post
Right. Specificity requires knowledge.
Had I said "a hack of any BTC exchange", rather than limiting the wager to a hack of Coinbase, Octavo would be sporting a Hello Kitty avatar now (see posts 383 and 391). Those are the breaks of the game, though.
jhunter1163 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th January 2015, 05:37 PM   #402
EGarrett
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,086
Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
Had I said "a hack of any BTC exchange", rather than limiting the wager to a hack of Coinbase, Octavo would be sporting a Hello Kitty avatar now (see posts 383 and 391). Those are the breaks of the game, though.
I think the lesson to draw from this (and your other failed predictions) is not that you should be more vague, but that you should gain more knowledge and humility in regards to Bitcoin.
__________________
"So if a tard came up to me and offered to sell me 10 bitcoins for $100, not only would I not do it, I think I'd punch him in the head, just for being stupid." -The Central Scrutinizer

Last edited by EGarrett; 6th January 2015 at 05:41 PM.
EGarrett is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th January 2015, 05:52 PM   #403
jhunter1163
beer-swilling semiliterate
 
jhunter1163's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Connecticut, or King Arthur's Court. Hard to tell sometimes.
Posts: 25,097
Originally Posted by EGarrett View Post
I think the lesson to draw from this (and your other failed predictions) is not that you should be more vague, but that you should gain more knowledge and humility in regards to Bitcoin.
Believe me, I am fully versed in BTC's flaws and foibles. And the loss of an avatar bet is hardly cause for sackcloth and ashes.
jhunter1163 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th January 2015, 06:18 PM   #404
EGarrett
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,086
Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
Believe me, I am fully versed in BTC's flaws and foibles. And the loss of an avatar bet is hardly cause for sackcloth and ashes.
You act like this is the first failed prediction you've made.
__________________
"So if a tard came up to me and offered to sell me 10 bitcoins for $100, not only would I not do it, I think I'd punch him in the head, just for being stupid." -The Central Scrutinizer
EGarrett is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th January 2015, 10:11 PM   #405
Octavo
Illuminator
 
Octavo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South Africa
Posts: 3,485
Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
Believe me, I am fully versed in BTC's flaws and foibles. And the loss of an avatar bet is hardly cause for sackcloth and ashes.
Damnit! I should have posted a sackcloth and ashes avatar. I KNEW IT!
Octavo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 6th January 2015, 11:55 PM   #406
LashL
Goddess of Legaltainment™
 
LashL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 35,552
Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
A gentleman always honors his obligations. Never let it be said that I am not a gentleman.

[OT]
For the record, in my opinion, jhunter1163 is very much a gentleman. Even when subjected to the Incentivizer™ and that's a real test.
[/OT]

Last edited by LashL; 6th January 2015 at 11:58 PM.
LashL is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 7th January 2015, 02:59 AM   #407
jhunter1163
beer-swilling semiliterate
 
jhunter1163's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Connecticut, or King Arthur's Court. Hard to tell sometimes.
Posts: 25,097
Originally Posted by EGarrett View Post
You act like this is the first failed prediction you've made.
I stand by everything I've said about Bitcoin. Its failure may take longer than I predicted, but it will fail, because it is unsafe, unsecure and ultimately unnecessary with the rise of Apple Pay and similar payment services. BTC will at best be a niche product used by those who a) need anonymity (tax evaders, drug dealers and child-porn purveyors) and b) are dumb enough to believe that BTC is actually anonymous and untraceable.
jhunter1163 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 7th January 2015, 03:00 AM   #408
jhunter1163
beer-swilling semiliterate
 
jhunter1163's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Connecticut, or King Arthur's Court. Hard to tell sometimes.
Posts: 25,097
Originally Posted by LashL View Post
[OT]
For the record, in my opinion, jhunter1163 is very much a gentleman. Even when subjected to the Incentivizer™ and that's a real test.
[/OT]
Hey! That was supposed to be our secret!
jhunter1163 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 7th January 2015, 03:26 AM   #409
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 81,459
Originally Posted by EGarrett View Post
Right. Specificity requires knowledge.
Right, because we all know how secure those exchanges are, and BTC hasn't lost 75% of its value in about a year.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 7th January 2015, 04:19 AM   #410
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 46,054
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Right, because we all know how secure those exchanges are, and BTC hasn't lost 75% of its value in about a year.
It is still the worlds best investment and the greatest invention ever. Or some such thing.

I think it will stay around for a long time, to many people are invested to heavily monetarily and philosophically to let it die. Gold buggery is always around I expect this to be the same.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 7th January 2015, 04:28 AM   #411
jhunter1163
beer-swilling semiliterate
 
jhunter1163's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Connecticut, or King Arthur's Court. Hard to tell sometimes.
Posts: 25,097
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
It is still the worlds best investment and the greatest invention ever. Or some such thing.

I think it will stay around for a long time, to many people are invested to heavily monetarily and philosophically to let it die. Gold buggery is always around I expect this to be the same.
Bitcoin investors are the ones who've gotten buggered, to the tune of about 75% in the last year.
jhunter1163 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 7th January 2015, 05:18 AM   #412
Brian-M
Daydreamer
 
Brian-M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,044
Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
b) are dumb enough to believe that BTC is actually anonymous and untraceable.

But Bitcoin is anonymous.

(It's not untraceable, and was never intended to be, it's an open-ledger system. So if you use methods to acquire Bitcoins or to sell/trade Bitcoins that aren't anonymous, they can be traced back to you.)
__________________
"That is just what you feel, that isn't reality." - hamelekim
Brian-M is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 7th January 2015, 07:18 AM   #413
Aepervius
Non credunt, semper verificare
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sigil, the city of doors
Posts: 14,581
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Talk about illogical!

The statements p &&q == TRUE and !p && q == TRUE may be valid possibilities but your conditional statements if q, then .... are FALSE for the reason you gave.

You could have written
if q, then p && q == TRUE || !p && q == TRUE
but by the law of absorption, that reduces to the trivial case of
if q, then q == TRUE.

You know about as much about logic as you know about what I have posted. I have never questioned that bitcoin prices have fallen. I have only said that calling bitcoin a currency was ironic (and ironic doesn't mean anything other than ironic).

If you would just acknowledge this irony instead of "playing silly buggers" you could end this exchange and stop making yourself look foolish.

Sorry but from an external reader, you are looking foolish.

Inplain english, despite it not being my first language:
he was LISTING the TWO possibilities with q and P, sort of a truth table as we call them, related to q.

And he showed that changing p to not-p still leave the article valid , as they are independent of the value of q.

Nowhere was he saying that both statement are valid.
Aepervius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 7th January 2015, 08:51 PM   #414
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 14,298
Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
Sorry but from an external reader, you are looking foolish.

[ ....... ]

Nowhere was he saying that both statement are valid.
You clearly have no idea of the logical meaning of a "conditional statement". Otherwise, what you quoted would have made it clear to you why both of remirol's conditional statements were logically FALSE.

If you want to say that p and q are independent statements (and they are) then fine. But don't then try to link them together with faulty logic. You won't appear clever if you do.
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975

Last edited by psionl0; 7th January 2015 at 08:58 PM.
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 7th January 2015, 08:56 PM   #415
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 14,298
Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
No, you probably couldn't do that with Apple Pay ...
Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
(bitcoin) is [ ... ] ultimately unnecessary with the rise of Apple Pay and similar payment services.
These statements can not both be true. One of them must be a LIE.

Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
BTC will at best be a niche product used by those who a) need anonymity (tax evaders, drug dealers and child-porn purveyors) ...
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Give me a wallet address and I could transfer bitcoins to you within minutes without knowing your name, sex or the continent you reside in.
I happen to think that this is a good thing. Obviously I must be a criminal. Which of the categories that you listed do you think I belong to?
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 8th January 2015, 04:53 AM   #416
jhunter1163
beer-swilling semiliterate
 
jhunter1163's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Connecticut, or King Arthur's Court. Hard to tell sometimes.
Posts: 25,097
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
These statements can not both be true. One of them must be a LIE.
Did you really think that I would not notice your dishonesty in quote-mining? I didn't say that creating an anonymous Apple Pay account is impossible. I said it would entail going to some trouble. If you fall into one of the three categories I mentioned, it might be trouble worth going to. So no, neither of the statements I made is a lie.

Quote:
I happen to think that this is a good thing. Obviously I must be a criminal. Which of the categories that you listed do you think I belong to?
Again, you're putting words in my mouth. I think that you're wrong about Bitcoin, but that does not mean that I think you're a criminal.
jhunter1163 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 8th January 2015, 06:46 AM   #417
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 14,298
Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
I didn't say that creating an anonymous Apple Pay account is impossible. I said it would entail going to some trouble.

So let's examine how much "trouble" setting up an anonymous Apple Pay account would entail:
Quote:
You can start using Apple Pay as soon as you add a credit or debit card to Passbook. Here's what you need to get started:
  • iPhone 6 or iPhone 6 Plus (Apple Pay in stores and within apps)
  • iPad Air 2 or iPad mini 3 (Apple Pay within apps)
  • iOS 8.1 or later
  • United States as your selected region
  • Touch ID or passcode on your device
  • iCloud account
  • Supported card from a participating bank
http://support.apple.com/en-au/HT201239
Apart from the iCloud account, you need to link a bank account that is in your name to the iCloud account. I don't know about the US but in Australia, to get a bank account you need to provide the same sort of identification that is needed to get a passport. So to get an anonymous bank account, you are talking about some serious fraud (identity theft at the very least).

You don't need to provide fraudulent information to get a bitcoin wallet because you don't have to provide any information. Once again, apples and oranges.

Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
Again, you're putting words in my mouth. I think that you're wrong about Bitcoin, but that does not mean that I think you're a criminal.
No, those are your words. I only left out the "Its failure may take longer than I predicted, but it will fail, because it is unsafe, unsecure ..." because in spite of you ignoring the rebuttals, that has already been dealt with.
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975

Last edited by psionl0; 8th January 2015 at 06:47 AM.
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 8th January 2015, 08:25 AM   #418
jhunter1163
beer-swilling semiliterate
 
jhunter1163's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Connecticut, or King Arthur's Court. Hard to tell sometimes.
Posts: 25,097
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I only left out the "Its failure may take longer than I predicted, but it will fail, because it is unsafe, unsecure ..." because in spite of you ignoring the rebuttals, that has already been dealt with.
I have not ignored your "rebuttals"; I have dismissed them because events (Mt. Gox, Bitstamp, Sheep Exchange, and countless others) have demonstrated that Bitcoin as presently constituted is not safe and not secure. While the fundamental security tech is sound, the weak point in the system is the exchanges and there is at present no practical way to get BTC without going through an exchange.

Last edited by jhunter1163; 8th January 2015 at 10:19 AM. Reason: spelling
jhunter1163 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 8th January 2015, 09:14 AM   #419
Almo
Masterblazer
 
Almo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 6,842
Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
I have not ignored your "rebuttals"; I have dismissed them because events (Mt. Gox, Bistamp, Sheep Exchange, and countless others) have demonstrated that Bitcoin as presently constituted is not safe and not secure. While the fundamental security tech is sound, the weak point in the system is the exchanges and there is at present no practical way to get BTC without going through an exchange.
But that makes sense. Can't have any of that around here.
__________________
Almo!
My Music Blog
"No society ever collapsed because the poor had too much." — LeftySergeant
"It may be that there is no body really at rest, to which the places and motions of others may be referred." –Issac Newton in the Principia
Almo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 8th January 2015, 02:29 PM   #420
Prometheus
Acolyte of Víðarr
 
Prometheus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 49,162
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
...I happen to think that this is a good thing....
Why? Perhaps I'm just being dense, but I am at a loss to think of a legitimate reason why I would want to send money to someone, somewhere, without knowing where or to whom my money is going.
__________________
As Einstein once said, "If you can't think of something relevant to say, just make something up and attribute it to some really smart dead guy."
"I find your lack of pith disturbing," - Darth Rotor
..........
Don't be offended. I'm not calling you a serial killer. -- Ron Tomkins.
Prometheus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 8th January 2015, 02:47 PM   #421
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 14,298
Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
While the fundamental security tech is sound, the weak point in the system is the exchanges and there is at present no practical way to get BTC without going through an exchange.
*sigh* This is ancient stuff. You are just repeating stuff I have posted many times over the years except that you seem to believe that no alternative to a centralized exchange will ever appear (and I have also discussed emerging alternatives many times as well).
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 8th January 2015, 03:01 PM   #422
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 14,298
Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
Why? Perhaps I'm just being dense, but I am at a loss to think of a legitimate reason why I would want to send money to someone, somewhere, without knowing where or to whom my money is going.
Neither can I (unless you are making an anonymous donation to a charity perhaps). The point is that I can take as few or as many precautions as I like to ensure I get value for my money and don't need to appeal to a third party for the transfer.

It is a bit like the reason why toasters often have a "burnt" setting even though nobody wants burnt toast. If you set any limit at all on how dark the toaster will make the toast there will always be somebody who finds that the toaster doesn't make his toast dark enough.
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 8th January 2015, 03:42 PM   #423
DrDave
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,300
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
It is a bit like the reason why toasters often have a "burnt" setting even though nobody wants burnt toast. If you set any limit at all on how dark the toaster will make the toast there will always be somebody who finds that the toaster doesn't make his toast dark enough.
Those numbers on the dial are minutes - not degree of toastiness
DrDave is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 8th January 2015, 03:48 PM   #424
shuttlt
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,727
I thought the really high numbers were for if the bread was frozen?
shuttlt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 8th January 2015, 08:17 PM   #425
Brian-M
Daydreamer
 
Brian-M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,044
Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
[...] and there is at present no practical way to get BTC without going through an exchange.
Apart from mining them. Or privately purchasing them from someone who has some. Or earning them by providing goods or services for people or organisations who are willing to pay in Bitcoin (which is sometimes automated).

Maybe you're confusing practical with convenient?
__________________
"That is just what you feel, that isn't reality." - hamelekim
Brian-M is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 8th January 2015, 10:16 PM   #426
Octavo
Illuminator
 
Octavo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South Africa
Posts: 3,485
Originally Posted by DrDave View Post
Those numbers on the dial are minutes - not degree of toastiness
Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
I thought the really high numbers were for if the bread was frozen?
Well now I've learned two things more valuable than a Bitcoin in this thread.
Octavo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th January 2015, 12:59 AM   #427
jhunter1163
beer-swilling semiliterate
 
jhunter1163's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Connecticut, or King Arthur's Court. Hard to tell sometimes.
Posts: 25,097
Originally Posted by Brian-M View Post
Apart from mining them. Or privately purchasing them from someone who has some. Or earning them by providing goods or services for people or organisations who are willing to pay in Bitcoin (which is sometimes automated).

Maybe you're confusing practical with convenient?
The difficulty of mining has increased to the point that you need a large outfit to make mining worthwhile, and even the big farms aren't making a lot of money at current BTC prices. As far as your other methods, I don't know of anybody in my immediate circle of friends who has any BTC, and I'm reluctant to provide and goods or services to someone who will pay me in a "currency" whose value is diminishing by the day.
jhunter1163 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th January 2015, 02:45 AM   #428
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 14,298
Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
I'm reluctant to provide and goods or services to someone who will pay me in a "currency" whose value is diminishing by the day.
Do you really think your personal decisions have that much influence on the future of bitcoin?
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th January 2015, 03:21 AM   #429
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 81,459
Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
I don't know of anybody in my immediate circle of friends who has any BTC, and I'm reluctant to provide and goods or services to someone who will pay me in a "currency" whose value is diminishing fluxuating by the day minute.
fixed that for you.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th January 2015, 12:44 PM   #430
jhunter1163
beer-swilling semiliterate
 
jhunter1163's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Connecticut, or King Arthur's Court. Hard to tell sometimes.
Posts: 25,097
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Do you really think your personal decisions have that much influence on the future of bitcoin?
That wasn't the point. The point was that non-exchange methods of obtaining BTC, while not impossible, are somewhat impractical and/or inconvenient at best.
jhunter1163 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th January 2015, 01:10 PM   #431
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 14,298
Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
That wasn't the point. The point was that non-exchange methods of obtaining BTC, while not impossible, are somewhat impractical and/or inconvenient at best.
That's not what you posted. Other than the cost of mining, you made it all about you.
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th January 2015, 06:04 PM   #432
superfreddy
Muse
 
superfreddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 813
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
So let's examine how much "trouble" setting up an anonymous Apple Pay account would entail:

Apart from the iCloud account, you need to link a bank account that is in your name to the iCloud account. I don't know about the US but in Australia, to get a bank account you need to provide the same sort of identification that is needed to get a passport. So to get an anonymous bank account, you are talking about some serious fraud (identity theft at the very least).

You don't need to provide fraudulent information to get a bitcoin wallet because you don't have to provide any information. Once again, apples and oranges.


No, those are your words. I only left out the "Its failure may take longer than I predicted, but it will fail, because it is unsafe, unsecure ..." because in spite of you ignoring the rebuttals, that has already been dealt with.
You could do it with a prepaid card.
superfreddy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th January 2015, 08:27 PM   #433
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 14,298
Originally Posted by superfreddy View Post
You could do it with a prepaid card.
Is that a debit card or something else? Can you get one that is not issued in anybody's name (essentially an anonymous bank account)?
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th January 2015, 09:10 PM   #434
Prometheus
Acolyte of Víðarr
 
Prometheus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 49,162
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Is that a debit card or something else? Can you get one that is not issued in anybody's name (essentially an anonymous bank account)?
Yes. I purchase them all the time to use as "universal" gift cards that don't tie the receiver to one particular merchant of my choice. The people I give them to can use them with any merchant that accepts normal credit cards.

ETA: Or I can buy one with cash and use it myself as an anonymous credit card.
__________________
As Einstein once said, "If you can't think of something relevant to say, just make something up and attribute it to some really smart dead guy."
"I find your lack of pith disturbing," - Darth Rotor
..........
Don't be offended. I'm not calling you a serial killer. -- Ron Tomkins.

Last edited by Prometheus; 9th January 2015 at 09:12 PM.
Prometheus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 10th January 2015, 01:26 AM   #435
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 14,298
Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
Yes. I purchase them all the time to use as "universal" gift cards that don't tie the receiver to one particular merchant of my choice. The people I give them to can use them with any merchant that accepts normal credit cards.

ETA: Or I can buy one with cash and use it myself as an anonymous credit card.
I have learned something new today.

Prepaid cards are even available in Australia. You can get "Load&Go" Travel cards (Visa) from Australia Post and it is not necessary to register the card to use it.
Quote:
You can use your Load&Go Travel card online, over the phone, in store, and at ATMs before registering your card. However, you must register your details online as soon as possible to access the following benefits:
  • Convert your funds from Australian Dollars into $NZD, $USD, €EUR or £GBP and move funds between currency 'wallets' for immediate use
  • Manage your currency options
  • Check your card balance and view transaction history
  • View and manage personal details
  • Manage SMS servicing options
  • Automatic card renewal
  • Balance transfer at card expiry
  • Access to lost/stolen card protection
Please note: If your Load&Go Travel card is lost or stolen and it is not registered, you will not be able to retrieve the remaining funds on your card.

http://auspost.com.au/travel-id/regi...avel-card.html
Of course, Apple Pay doesn't work with Australia Post (yet?). Apple Pay will work with prepaid cards from Chase, Regions Bank and Wells Fargo. (http://support.apple.com/en-au/HT6288).
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975

Last edited by psionl0; 10th January 2015 at 01:27 AM.
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 13th January 2015, 06:12 AM   #436
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 81,459
Ouch. Down to 230$.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 13th January 2015, 06:20 AM   #437
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 46,054
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Ouch. Down to 230$.
But it must be nearing the perfect time to buy, I am sure it will be back to $1300 any day now.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 13th January 2015, 07:14 AM   #438
remirol
Senior Wrangler
 
remirol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,089
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
But it must be nearing the perfect time to buy, I am sure it will be back to $1300 any day now.
While Bitcoiners were patting themselves on the back for the bubble and trying to figure out how a deflationary system could be shoehorned into pretending it was a currency, Apple was busy looking at it and saying "Good tech here. How can we make something like this, but linked to real money and that will get more people to buy an iPhone?"

If Bitcoin ever had a window of opportunity*, it's closed now. Apple is surely not the only one working out a viable e-payment system, they're just the 'name' brand so they get most of the news. Sell while you can get something for 'em.


* Well, it'll always be popular for purchasing drugs, "services", or CP, but i don't see these ever going particularly mainstream.
__________________
Roguelike player? Info: http://sporkhack.com -- Public server: telnet://sporkhack.com
--
The church is near but the road is icy; the bar is far away but I will walk carefully. -- old Russian proverb
remirol is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 13th January 2015, 07:49 AM   #439
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 81,459
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
But it must be nearing the perfect time to buy, I am sure it will be back to $1300 any day now.
Mhaze said 5000$ by the end of 2014 was a conservative estimate ! Gotta love people who don't understand economics.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 13th January 2015, 09:26 AM   #440
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 81,459
Does anyone know the volume of BTC being traded around this time, compared to a year ago ?
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Closed Thread

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Economics, Business and Finance

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:45 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.