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Tags Colorado cases , Jon-Benet Ramsay , murder cases , unsolved crimes

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Old 14th December 2018, 07:46 AM   #1041
Ampulla of Vater
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Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot View Post
The track record on child killers would suggest that if Burke is guilty, if he has gotten away clean, that we'll see some bad results out of him as an adult.

...

If it was the Father and he is some kind of child killer pervert - same thing. That is not a one-shot deal: normal all your life then rape and kill your daughter and then normal again the rest of your life? That seems unlikely.
Except Dad is like 75 years old now, so I really don't think he is likely to do it again, at least at this point. (I'm not saying he did it to begin with).

Either way, it's been 2 decades since the crime and neither Burke nor Dad have done anything similar. Does this mean you don't think they were involved?
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Old 17th December 2018, 02:56 PM   #1042
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Originally Posted by Ampulla of Vater View Post
Except Dad is like 75 years old now, so I really don't think he is likely to do it again, at least at this point. (I'm not saying he did it to begin with).

Either way, it's been 2 decades since the crime and neither Burke nor Dad have done anything similar. Does this mean you don't think they were involved?
This is an "all else the same" argument, that a person who was under suspicion for an unproven crime already, and was guilty, has a far higher likelihood of being a convicted criminal later.

After 20 years then you say "all else the same" it decreases the likelihood that they were the criminal. It does not mean you resolve to believe they are innocent.
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Old 11th January 2019, 12:40 AM   #1043
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Case closed

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/new...ectid=12188780

Exactly as the sages have been saying.
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Old 11th January 2019, 05:15 AM   #1044
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Case closed

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/new...ectid=12188780

Exactly as the sages have been saying.

Oh, please. This lead should, and undoubtedly will, be fully investigated, and I hope it turns out to be the break that leads to a solution. That said, false confessions are a regular occurrence in high-profile cases, so your proclaiming the "case closed" is extremely premature.
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Old 11th January 2019, 05:41 AM   #1045
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Her head injury was not from a slip, it was from a fatal blow to the head.

Her strangulation was not an accident.

This guy is just another jackass looking for fame, imo.
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Old 11th January 2019, 05:51 AM   #1046
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Perhaps he's on his deathbed and Kathleen Zellner's got him to sign a confession on behalf of her clients, the girl's parents.
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Old 11th January 2019, 07:31 AM   #1047
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From the article:

"The sensational letters were sent to music publicist Michael Vail, a former school mate of Oliva's, who has reportedly suspected his involvement in the crime for years.

The shock admission is one of the biggest breakthroughs in the now infamous case, which has stumped detectives for years.

"My suspicions began when Gary called me late at night on December 26, 1996. He was sobbing and said, 'I hurt a little girl'," the 55-year-old told the publication.

The next day he saw a newspaper headline about a 'slain girl' in Boulder, Colorado, sparking his long held suspicions around his former friend."

Did Mr. Vail ever contact the authorities about his suspicions?
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Old 11th January 2019, 07:27 PM   #1048
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Originally Posted by Jungle Jim View Post
From the article:

"The sensational letters were sent to music publicist Michael Vail, a former school mate of Oliva's, who has reportedly suspected his involvement in the crime for years.

The shock admission is one of the biggest breakthroughs in the now infamous case, which has stumped detectives for years.

"My suspicions began when Gary called me late at night on December 26, 1996. He was sobbing and said, 'I hurt a little girl'," the 55-year-old told the publication.

The next day he saw a newspaper headline about a 'slain girl' in Boulder, Colorado, sparking his long held suspicions around his former friend."

Did Mr. Vail ever contact the authorities about his suspicions?
Re: the highlighted

This is from the Daily Mail so take it for what it's worth but according to their article he did report it a few times:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-accident.html

Quote:
'I immediately called the Boulder Police Department and told them what I knew about Gary and what he had told me just days earlier. They didn't get back to me.

'Three months later I called the police again to find out what was going on in its investigation of Gary, but instead I was sent to a police answering machine set up for tips on the JonBenét case.

'I left a message on the recorded line and again I never heard back from investigators.'
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Old 12th January 2019, 06:21 AM   #1049
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His profiles should be in a data bank.

Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
"Findings. "The coroner took nail clippings from JonBenet. Male DNA was found under JonBenet's right hand fingernail that does not match that of any Ramsey. (SMF P 174; PSMF P 174.) Defendants also assert that male DNA was found under JonBenet's left hand fingernail, which also does not match that of any Ramsey. (SMF P 173.)" (Carnes 2003:22)" link

Some of the links at this site are broken, and I don't know how carefully and objectively the data were assembled by whoever the host is. However taking the information as a given, I would say that it points to the likely involvement of an outside male. Foreign DNA under fingernails is found roughly 5-20% of the time in various studies. One study put the number higher, but most of that was intimate partner DNA (see "Misleading DNA Evidence, pp. 67-80 and pp. 43-46). If the nails still exist, someone should try Y-chromosomal DNA profiling. That might work even in the presence of JonBenet's DNA, although degradation and depletion of the sample is an issue.
Gary Oliva's DNA profiles could potentially be checked against any of the profiles that are associated with this case. I would be especially interested in the fingernail DNA.
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Old 12th January 2019, 07:25 AM   #1050
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And those profiles have likely already been compared and found not to match.
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Old 12th January 2019, 07:31 AM   #1051
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There are always nutters coming out of the woodwork to claim 'credit' for a notorious murder.
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Old 12th January 2019, 07:32 AM   #1052
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'I immediately called the Boulder Police Department and told them what I knew about Gary and what he had told me just days earlier."

The girl is killed basically on the 26th, late at night on the 25th.

Vail reads the paper on the 27th.

How did Oliva confess "days" earlier?

Oliva could only have confessed "yesterday".

Besides, Jonbenet's death was as far from an accident as you can get, so Oliva is lying.
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Old 12th January 2019, 07:36 AM   #1053
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Has anyone looked at the handwriting from Oliva and from the ransom notes?
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Old 12th January 2019, 07:39 AM   #1054
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Turns out this is fake news...

http://www.newser.com/story/269792/p...thing-new.html
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Old 12th January 2019, 01:30 PM   #1055
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One thing this report had in common with the various unlikely bits of stuff I see linked to or emailed by Trump conservatives was that if it were true it would be a story of major public interest and it would have been reported prominently by major news outlets. It wasn't, so the probable situation was that it was BS.

It was certainly reasonable to consider it probable BS until the Boulder police department had issued a public statement about it, confirming that it was something they were taking seriously. Or at least until after a mainstream outlet had reported that sources had confirmed that the story was significant.

As it is, the JBR murder remains one of those few stories that I follow where there seems to be enough evidence to support a theory about what is probable but all the most significant possibilities seem improbable.

For me this is similar to the Anastasia story before the truth was revealed. With hindsight I feel like I should have figured out that Anna Anderson's story was bogus but I didn't figure it out until the DNA tests results were revealed. So now I'm roughly in the same situation. And if the truth is revealed I have a feeling that I will think that I should have figured it out, but as of now without the benefit of hindsight I haven't figured it out.
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Old 16th January 2019, 07:46 PM   #1056
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John Ramsey is the most probable suspect but if they can't prove prior sexual abuse that's the end of the case. The police never focused on him, but then again they were incompetent and stupid.
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Old 16th January 2019, 08:06 PM   #1057
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
There are always nutters coming out of the woodwork to claim 'credit' for a notorious murder.
I'm a nutter coming out of the woodwork to claim credit for solving this case. It was JR! Or maybe it wasn't? Hopefully this helps.
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Old 17th January 2019, 12:14 PM   #1058
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I believe this is a case that will never be solved. I do not believe immediate family had any involvement. John Ramsey does not have a history of abuse, and to this day has not displayed the type of behavior that is suspect.
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Old 17th January 2019, 12:27 PM   #1059
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The case was lost in the first few hours and it can never be recovered, imo.
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Old 18th January 2019, 02:36 AM   #1060
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Originally Posted by davefoc View Post
One thing this report had in common with the various unlikely bits of stuff I see linked to or emailed by Trump conservatives was that if it were true it would be a story of major public interest and it would have been reported prominently by major news outlets. It wasn't, so the probable situation was that it was BS.

It was certainly reasonable to consider it probable BS until the Boulder police department had issued a public statement about it, confirming that it was something they were taking seriously. Or at least until after a mainstream outlet had reported that sources had confirmed that the story was significant.

As it is, the JBR murder remains one of those few stories that I follow where there seems to be enough evidence to support a theory about what is probable but all the most significant possibilities seem improbable.

For me this is similar to the Anastasia story before the truth was revealed. With hindsight I feel like I should have figured out that Anna Anderson's story was bogus but I didn't figure it out until the DNA tests results were revealed. So now I'm roughly in the same situation. And if the truth is revealed I have a feeling that I will think that I should have figured it out, but as of now without the benefit of hindsight I haven't figured it out.
A child pageant star ends being murdered.
Not a coincidence, tragically she was seen in public and someone tracked her.
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Old 3rd February 2019, 03:35 AM   #1061
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Detective Steve Ainsworth was on the right murder trail in the initial investigation when Fleet White and Chris Wolf and Santa Bill McReynolds were the prime suspects. He should never have been taken off of the case. There is a bit of waffle about the matter from an old TV interview with Ainsworth:

Quote:
On the television show, DeMuth’s comments have been broad and not critical of any specific individuals or departments. “In homicide investigations, you need to make sure you pursue every possibility or theory, if you will, especially since the burden of proof is to prove somebody’s guilt beyond a reasonable doubt,” he said on Monday’s show, which was taped last month.

His most pointed remarks came when he talked about focusing on one suspect. “I’ve seen police agencies fix on one suspect and believe they have the right person, and then I’ve watched them let go of that suspect when they develop other evidence and leads,” DeMuth said.

During the “Today” interviews, Ainsworth has been more direct about his theories in the case. “I have not seen any evidence that would be compelling to suggest that John and Patsy did kill their daughter at this point. And the evidence to me certainly suggests that someone other than them committed the murder,” Ainsworth said.

The detective, who last worked with DeMuth to convict Longmont’s Matthew Mirabal of murdering his wife, said on the television show he isn’t sure why investigators were only focused on John and Patsy Ramsey. “The reasons why we weren’t allowed to investigate any of the other things that came up — I don’t have the answer for that,” he said.
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Old 7th February 2019, 03:05 AM   #1062
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The latest gossip on the internet seems to be that Burke Ramsey has settled with CBS, but the terms seem to be shrouded in secrecy. I think some sort of CBS chief executive has resigned recently, and so has the former anti-Ramsey Boulder police chief, Beckner. I still think Rat or Fleet White has got away with murder.
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Old 7th February 2019, 04:44 PM   #1063
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
The latest gossip on the internet seems to be that Burke Ramsey has settled with CBS, but the terms seem to be shrouded in secrecy. I think some sort of CBS chief executive has resigned recently, and so has the former anti-Ramsey Boulder police chief, Beckner. I still think Rat or Fleet White has got away with murder.
Beckner has been retired for years. Stop spreading rumors.
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Old 9th February 2019, 03:10 AM   #1064
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Originally Posted by Ampulla of Vater View Post
Beckner has been retired for years. Stop spreading rumors.
You may be right about that. I still think Beckner was anti-Ramsey and that Rat White did it and he was never properly investigated. Detective Seve Ainsworth and the Boulder DA Office were on the right murder trail, unlike Beckner. There is a bit about it at this website:

https://www.thoughtco.com/the-jonben...igation-973276

Quote:
Chief: Cops Botched JonBenet Crime Scene
Feb. 25, 2015 - A former Boulder, Colorado police chief says his officers should have done a better job of securing the crime scene at the home where JonBenet Ramsey was found killed. Mark Beckner said a lack of manpower due to the Christmas holiday was partly to blame for the confusion at the scene.

In an online question and answer session, Beckner said detectives should have separated the parents, John and Patsy Ramsey, and taken full statements from each of them on day one.

Instead, when the couple "lawyered up" they were released and allowed to go home and were not formally interviewed again until five months later. Beckner called that decision a "big mistake."

During the online session, Beckner also criticized the Boulder district attorney's office for "getting too involved" in the investigation.

Beckner said that he believes the DNA found on the 6-year-old's clothing is the key to finding a suspect in the case, but he also said he does not think anyone will ever be convicted of the 1996 murder, due mainly to mistakes his department made that first day.

Last edited by Henri McPhee; 9th February 2019 at 03:13 AM.
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Old 23rd February 2019, 03:30 AM   #1065
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Fleet White has escaped the death penalty.
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Old 21st March 2019, 10:45 AM   #1066
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The Ramseys are innocent.
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Old 26th March 2019, 02:00 PM   #1067
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And the last believer spent their days talking to themselves, congratulating themselves on their great insight and pure heart.
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Old 28th March 2019, 11:19 PM   #1068
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The original investigation was a farce and that pretty much was that, absent a credible confession. I have to say that I find some aspects of the case pointing towards the parents. It must have been one of the most bizarre kidnappings and ransom demands in criminal history if an intruder did it but then again bizarre and unlikely things do happen. I occasionaly read Websleuths' threads about the case and they are so fruitless and frustrating. I would think that with a proper and professional investigation this would have been a simple case, one way or the other, but as it now is, it will never be solved. A sad situation.
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Old 13th April 2019, 02:35 AM   #1069
Henri McPhee
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There is a Daily Mail article on recent developments in the Jon Benet Ramsey case at:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rs-murder.html
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Old 13th April 2019, 10:16 AM   #1070
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This is an interesting quote from that Daily Mail article about the Jon Benet Ramsey case:

Quote:
John also says on the special that he never once thought his son Burke was responsible for the death of his sister.

Burke sued CBS after the network aired The Case Of: JonBenet Ramsey, which concluded with investigators revealing that after extensive research into the events that happened on the night of the murder they believed Burke Ramsey was responsible for killing his sister.

He recently settled that case after demanding damages of $750million from the network.
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Old 27th April 2019, 02:22 AM   #1071
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I always did think it was ridiculous that Burke was continually being accused of the JonBenet murder, and on the internet. Even Steve Thomas, formerly of the Boulder Police Department, is on record as saying that Burke had nothing to do with her murder.
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Old 11th May 2019, 02:48 AM   #1072
Henri McPhee
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I'm glad none of the Ramseys were ever prosecuted. It was bad police and FBI work.
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