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Tags Brendan Dassey , murder cases , Steven Avery , Teresa Halbach

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Old 30th December 2018, 08:44 PM   #161
Ampulla of Vater
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Originally Posted by JTF View Post

...

In terms of sliming people, what does your silence on those who make direct personal attacks against dedicated police officers/investigators in this case say about you? To make matters worse, the negative labels placed upon these officers and investigators is based on innuendo, speculation, and a conspiracy mindset. IMO, that is the true definition of despicable.
Please show me "direct personal attacks against dedicated police officers in this case" located in this thread. To my knowledge, other than one specific conspiracy theorist, there haven't been any.

Do you believe Colborn and Lenk were right to be involved in this case at all?
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Old 31st December 2018, 01:22 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by Ampulla of Vater View Post
Please show me "direct personal attacks against dedicated police officers in this case" located in this thread. To my knowledge, other than one specific conspiracy theorist, there haven't been any.

Do you believe Colborn and Lenk were right to be involved in this case at all?
It is on the record that Charlie Wilkes says only a cop could do it.
It can be inferred that this is James Lenk.

I guess that is sliming a cop, but Lenk framed Avery with ultimate malice even if he did not bludgeon Halbach to death then drill her with two bullets.
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Old 31st December 2018, 04:19 AM   #163
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There was another suspect in 1985

"The police department had called me a couple weeks after the assault and said they had another suspect in mind. They didn’t give me a name, but it turns out it was Gregory Allen. I hung up and I called the sheriff and said, “What’s this about another suspect?” I was told, “Do not talk to the police department, it will only confuse you.”"

IIUC some people in law enforcement suspected Gregory Allen in the rape of Penny Beerntsen. There have been so many professional lapses by law enforcement and the judicial system regarding Avery and Dassey that it would be difficult to list them all in one sitting.
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Old 1st January 2019, 09:47 AM   #164
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The investigation and LE activity in this case belongs in a Hall of Shame. It must be on a list somewhere of the case with the highest rate of mistakes. It should call for the firing of all involved.

It does not, in any way, make them any less guilty.
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Old 1st January 2019, 12:01 PM   #165
Chris_Halkides
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not sure yet

Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
The investigation and LE activity in this case belongs in a Hall of Shame. It must be on a list somewhere of the case with the highest rate of mistakes. It should call for the firing of all involved.

It does not, in any way, make them any less guilty.
wasapi,

On the one hand, I don't have an entirely satisfying alternative explanation besides Mr. Avery's being the guilty party (I see no compelling evidence that Dassey had anything to do with whatever happened). On the other hand, there are so many questionable items of evidence, that once I cross them off my list, I am not sure whether or not there is enough for a conviction. What evidence convinces you?
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Old 2nd January 2019, 11:07 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
The investigation and LE activity in this case belongs in a Hall of Shame. It must be on a list somewhere of the case with the highest rate of mistakes. It should call for the firing of all involved.

It does not, in any way, make them any less guilty.
If the investigation belongs in the hall of shame they have no reliable evidence, so they created it.
Kathleen Zellner proves Teresa Halbach drove from the property and this makes Avery innocent. How they got the blood in the Rav 4 is the only unresolved issue, but they demonstrate a pathway in series 2. Ken Kratz was delivered a solid looking case and as a prosecutor he only had to show the blood in the car to secure a conviction. For a jury, this overrides all the completely impossible logistical evidence, including the ludicrous body burning in a shallow pit.
This is in the top drawer of obvious framings, but Charlie's theory relies on some remarkable good fortune and an extraordinary plot that could fail in several ways, not least that Steve Avery might have had a continual alibi while Teresa was leaving the property. In this case an innocent young woman would have been pointlessly sacrificed.
Nor does Bobby Dassey look like a killer with such evil intent, so the mystery remains.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 01:19 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
On the one hand, I don't have an entirely satisfying alternative explanation besides Mr. Avery's being the guilty party (I see no compelling evidence that Dassey had anything to do with whatever happened). On the other hand, there are so many questionable items of evidence, that once I cross them off my list, I am not sure whether or not there is enough for a conviction.?
This is my position after finishing Part 2. Thanks for summarizing so well.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 03:50 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
wasapi,

On the one hand, I don't have an entirely satisfying alternative explanation besides Mr. Avery's being the guilty party (I see no compelling evidence that Dassey had anything to do with whatever happened). On the other hand, there are so many questionable items of evidence, that once I cross them off my list, I am not sure whether or not there is enough for a conviction. What evidence convinces you?
Chris, I'm afraid it has been a long time since I have reviewed all of my notes, sites, and other information that I have accumulated since the beginning. I followed the story since day #1, and spent a great deal of time researching. Right now, the way my memory is, I'm sorry, but until I do review it, I can't say definitively what evidence convinced me. I do know that I believe 100% he is guilty.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 03:11 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
Chris, I'm afraid it has been a long time since I have reviewed all of my notes, sites, and other information that I have accumulated since the beginning. I followed the story since day #1, and spent a great deal of time researching. Right now, the way my memory is, I'm sorry, but until I do review it, I can't say definitively what evidence convinced me. I do know that I believe 100% he is guilty.
Know and believe are disparate words.
However I know what you mean.
You will have reconciled Steve's guilt with the car leaving the property after the photo shoot, or will not have considered this problem, one or other.
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Old 1st February 2019, 05:48 AM   #170
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Them bones

A tweet fron Jerome Buting: "In layman’s terms: State wants to avoid a hearing on this where they have to explain why they gave to Halbach family quarry bones that KK claimed at trial were non-human. KZ wants to prove with new DNA technique they were TH, as further proof she wasn’t burned at SA’s property."
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Old 1st February 2019, 09:03 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
A tweet fron Jerome Buting: "In layman’s terms: State wants to avoid a hearing on this where they have to explain why they gave to Halbach family quarry bones that KK claimed at trial were non-human. KZ wants to prove with new DNA technique they were TH, as further proof she wasn’t burned at SA’s property."
I find the continuing saga interesting, but does it make any difference at this point?
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Old 3rd February 2019, 05:15 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
I find the continuing saga interesting, but does it make any difference at this point?
Remarkable cognitive dissonance.
Would you care if it was your daughter set to die in prison for a crime committed by someone else?
I see this callous attitude in other cases.
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Old 3rd February 2019, 08:20 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Remarkable cognitive dissonance.
Would you care if it was your daughter set to die in prison for a crime committed by someone else?
I see this callous attitude in other cases.
I didn't intend to sound callous or uncaring, but was simply asking if there's any realistic chance either of these men will ever get a new trial?

If it were my son or daughter, I'm not sure I'd want to continue to ask them to hope if the hard fact is there is nothing to genuinely hope for.
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Old 3rd February 2019, 04:57 PM   #174
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AEDPA and the appeals system

I am not a lawyer, but it's tough to see where Mr. Dassey could go for relief at this point. I don't know about Mr. Avery. I just finished reading The Cadaver King and the Country Dentist, and my opinions of our appeals system in the U.S. and AEDPA are both even lower, if that is possible.
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Old 3rd February 2019, 05:24 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
I didn't intend to sound callous or uncaring, but was simply asking if there's any realistic chance either of these men will ever get a new trial?

If it were my son or daughter, I'm not sure I'd want to continue to ask them to hope if the hard fact is there is nothing to genuinely hope for.
Sorry for being harsh, but there is no call to give up, these cases need fighting forever. Why not fight, it can clearly happen to anyone at all.
In New Zealand, Arthur Thomas, Rex Haig, David Bain and Mark Lundy are all hardworking people who got selected like Steven Avery by fate.
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