ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez , global warming , green energy issues

Reply
Old 8th February 2019, 07:47 AM   #81
Delvo
الشيطان الأبيض
 
Delvo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 7,695
Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
I don't see why this should be a left-right issue... Climate is changing and we need to act.
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Even if climate change was some natural phenomena unrelated to human activity, its still changing, and the rate at which it is changing will see the planet unlivable in a very short time!
even without climate change, it would still be good to shift away from fossil fuels, because the same natural resource is also where we get plastics and road tar, and we don't have any replacements ready for those when it runs out either.

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I'd say the biggest problem with nuclear reactors is that we still don't know how to get rid of the waste.
The fact that it's radioactive is the key to the answer right there: it's emitting energy, the same thing that made the original nuclear fuel "fuel" in the first place. Reactors are just a way of speeding up the natural emission that was already happening. And the same thing can be done to the waste: use it as fuel for a different type of reactor, thus putting the practically free energy to use and sharply reducing the radioactivity of the waste. It's been proposed and the physics for it has been known for decades. It just hasn't gotten funded because people have been stupid about the word "nuclear".

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Fine, fine, everyone have a laugh at it.

Now. If it's so bad, provide a better plan that will produce better results. Apart from Soylent Green and burning the poor to keep the rich warm, of course.
Start building more non-carbon-fuel power plants right now, including wind, solar, and fission, especially the waste-eating kind. Subsidize development of transportation methods that use electricity instead of gasoline/diesel, to set up a future time when gasoline/diesel can be banned. Pay for it the same way other countries with smaller economies already are paying for such things just fine: with a sane tax system that's designed to actually fund government functions instead of to funnel wealth toward those private citizens who already have the most of it... and with far less military spending so the money we have can be diverted to more practical uses. To that last point, either former military people who take budget-cutting discharge options can be hired to do the work on the domestic power system, or, if the military budget doesn't go down (or even quit growing), we can transfer people to the Corps Of Engineers from other military offices and have the COE do the work.
Delvo is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 07:51 AM   #82
Donal
Illuminator
 
Donal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,694
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Not exactly thrilled with it myself.
Ya, it is far from perfect, but lets see if we can get past the personal incredulity some see to be relying on.

Quote:
I think the "high speed rail to replace air travel" is just plain ridiculous
Not as ridiculous as it sounds. While we probably won't end air travel in our lite times, I don't think anyone here is opposed to upgrading our infrastructure and utilizing high speed rail. Remember, it typically takes more resources to travel by air than land. While current high speed rail won't make going from NY to LA cheaper or faster, connecting major cities to more outlying areas, or maybe former large cities, seems like a good idea to me.

When the idea of a high speed rail was pitched connecting Boston, NY, Philly and DC, I though that maybe connecting those cities instead to former manufacturing centers (ie the "rust belt") would be more productive.

The biggest hurdle is the fact that you have to deal with the various municipalities between pihts A and B.

Quote:
And it's wrong,wrong,wrong on Nuclear Power.
Ya, I agree here. More investment in nuclear power.

Quote:
And it's really vague about where the money for all this is going to come from.
Mexico will pay for it!

Just kidding. Taxes. Taxes are how government projects are paid for. Maybe we can take some of that money earmarked for no bid military contracts. Or the $50 billion a year in oil subsidies. Maybe we can roll back that $1.5 trillion welfare program for billionaires.

Maybe the income and revenue produced by these projects will also be able to fund them once the program is rolling.

A few more points:

1) everything is impossible until it isn't. A man would combust if he traveled past 35 mph. Radiation would kill you when you leave Earth's atmosphere.

2) look at the criticisms of the original New Deal. you'll see a lot oft he same ground tread.

3) Push this and we move the conversation past "is climate change real" and to "how do we address climate change". Even if most of the GDN doesn't come to fruition, it gets further than we are.
Donal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 08:01 AM   #83
Armitage72
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,533
Originally Posted by Donal View Post
2) look at the criticisms of the original New Deal. you'll see a lot oft he same ground tread.

I still see people claim that the New Deal was a failure that extended and intensified the Great Depression, and if not for the economic effects of WWII, it would have destroyed the country.
Armitage72 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 08:14 AM   #84
Donal
Illuminator
 
Donal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,694
Ya, I see people reporting Big Foot sightings. And they are taken just as seriously.
Donal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 08:23 AM   #85
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,059
Originally Posted by Donal View Post
Remember, it typically takes more resources to travel by air than land. .
Not necessarily accurate, and I have highlighted the resource in question.
__________________
I'm your obsession
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 08:57 AM   #86
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 41,940
Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Really? This plan would result in coastal areas being flooded, food bowls turning into dust bowls, increase massive flooding, produce bigger and more powerful hurricanes and storms, destroy the coral reefs worldwide, devastate fish stocks, greatly increase the range of tropical diseases, and potentially spark the next great extinction?
You say that like this plan would actually stop climate change. It wouldn't. But it would create additional catastrophes of its own, which would economically cripple us and make us more vulnerable to those changes.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 09:24 AM   #87
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 31,732
Can we talk a little more about the "economic security for those who don't want to work" bit?

Because that sounds awesome. For me, anyway. I'm not sure how AOC plans to work hard enough to pay for the two of us, but it's her proposal so I'm sure she's figured something out.

Last edited by theprestige; 8th February 2019 at 09:26 AM.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 09:25 AM   #88
applecorped
Rotten to the Core
 
applecorped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 18,909
Free money!!!!!
__________________
All You Need Is Love.
applecorped is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 09:41 AM   #89
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 23,169
I think, absent some kind of global catastrophe, that countries are going to have to start moving towards the model of paying everybody a basic income and then having what they earn from jobs be on top of that. The world is becoming increasingly automated and the more jobs like teller, driver, and warehouse worker become obsolete, the more people are going to need a safety net.

That's probably a discussion for a different thread, though.
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 09:50 AM   #90
Donal
Illuminator
 
Donal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,694
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Can we talk a little more about the "economic security for those who don't want to work" bit?
It was passed in the middle of the night by the Republicans in late 2017. They are currently working on expanding it by eliminating the inheritance tax.

Last edited by Donal; 8th February 2019 at 09:51 AM.
Donal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 09:52 AM   #91
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 78,650
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
You say that like this plan would actually stop climate change. It wouldn't.
Are those the only two options? Stop climate change completely or do nothing?
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 09:55 AM   #92
Donal
Illuminator
 
Donal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,694
At least he admitted climate change is real and we can address it.
Donal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 10:00 AM   #93
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 31,732
Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I think, absent some kind of global catastrophe, that countries are going to have to start moving towards the model of paying everybody a basic income and then having what they earn from jobs be on top of that.
How would that work, though? The money for the basic income comes from tax revenue, which in turns comes off the top of what people earn from jobs. You start paying people whether they're working or not, you'll end up having to force at least some people to work quite a bit to produce all the surplus wealth you're spreading around.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 10:12 AM   #94
Donal
Illuminator
 
Donal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,694
That assumes people will simply not work. What is more likely is they will find other jobs than quick menial labor that can be replaced by machines. Maybe get more education so they can engage in higher levels of problem solving and artistry.

Maybe if a person isn't just trying to scratch out a living day to day, they get to truly live up to their potential.
Donal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 10:17 AM   #95
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 31,732
Originally Posted by Donal View Post
That assumes people will simply not work. What is more likely is they will find other jobs than quick menial labor that can be replaced by machines. Maybe get more education so they can engage in higher levels of problem solving and artistry.

Maybe if a person isn't just trying to scratch out a living day to day, they get to truly live up to their potential.
Pretty sure my potential is to go on long bike rides, drink beer with friends, and read a lot of books.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 10:54 AM   #96
Donal
Illuminator
 
Donal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,694
Is that really less productive than stocking shelves at WalMart?
Donal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 11:21 AM   #97
CORed
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Central City, Colorado, USA
Posts: 8,487
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
You missed the hilarity of the farting cows!

Sen Mazie Hirono (D-HI) on Ocasio-Cortez’s Green New Deal & trying to cut down on air air travel. “That would be pretty hard for Hawaii”

When Crazy Mazie think your plan is crazy... well....
I was going to point out that, though replacing air travel with high speed rail is at least somewhat plausible on land, it's not going to work too well for crossing oceans. The whole thing is really pie in the sky nonsense anyway.
CORed is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 11:40 AM   #98
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
 
Brainster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 16,117
Originally Posted by Donal View Post
That assumes people will simply not work. What is more likely is they will find other jobs than quick menial labor that can be replaced by machines. Maybe get more education so they can engage in higher levels of problem solving and artistry.
Learn to code?
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads.
1960s Comic Book Nostalgia
Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.
Brainster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 11:41 AM   #99
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 42,616
Originally Posted by CORed View Post
I was going to point out that, though replacing air travel with high speed rail is at least somewhat plausible on land, it's not going to work too well for crossing oceans. The whole thing is really pie in the sky nonsense anyway.
A lot of TGND is pie in the sky nonsense.
Look, I agree that we need to move on climate change, but it has to be thought out carefully. And a lot of TGND was not,frankly.
It also does not have the chance of a snowball in hell of getting enacted. I most democrats are going to shy away from some of it's more questionable proposols.
In the end, Bismarck was right. Politics is the art of the possible. And a lot of TGND is simply not possible.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 12:02 PM   #100
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 23,169
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
How would that work, though? The money for the basic income comes from tax revenue, which in turns comes off the top of what people earn from jobs. You start paying people whether they're working or not, you'll end up having to force at least some people to work quite a bit to produce all the surplus wealth you're spreading around.
As I said - this is probably a discussion for another thread.
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 12:09 PM   #101
Mike!
Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it!
 
Mike!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not!
Posts: 30,859
I think the key thing would be to convert aircraft to run on cow flatulence. There's a whole new industry just waiting to be created, the capture, containment, and transportation of Bovine Generated Aviation Propellent. Who says you can't kill one bird with two stones?
__________________
"Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes...
Because then it won't really matter, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes."
Mike! is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 12:16 PM   #102
lomiller
Philosopher
 
lomiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 9,529
Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I'd say the biggest problem with nuclear reactors is that we still don't know how to get rid of the waste.
Not really. The only way to stretch nuclear fuel reserves far enough to make Nuclear a viable alterative to fossil fuels is to go to 100% breeder reactors that turn materials like Thorium and lower grade uranium etc. These reactors don’t really produce waste the way current reactors do. It all just stays inside the reactor until all the potentially fissionable material is used up. While the resulting waste is still contaminated, there is a lot less and it’s not undergoing radioactive decay to anywhere near the same degree as waste from current reactors.
__________________
"Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"
lomiller is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 12:23 PM   #103
sir drinks-a-lot
Illuminator
 
sir drinks-a-lot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Cole Valley, CA
Posts: 3,613
Given how much I hate working, it sounds like my ship has finally come in. Now I can take up the piano, get better at rock climbing, and finally learn to paint. I'll probably do some travel as well. Thank you Ocasio-Cortez!
__________________
I drink to the general joy o' th' whole table. --William Shakespeare
sir drinks-a-lot is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 12:25 PM   #104
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 31,732
Originally Posted by Donal View Post
Is that really less productive than stocking shelves at WalMart?
An excellent question. Which of those two activities do you think should come with a guaranteed living wage?
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 12:31 PM   #105
Drewbot
Philosopher
 
Drewbot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,860
We could do this with clean nuclear power in 10-20 years.

Plus it doesn't take into account the possibility of fusion power being possible in 10-20 years.
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker
"I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325
Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic
Drewbot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 12:33 PM   #106
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 78,650
Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Given how much I hate working, it sounds like my ship has finally come in. Now I can take up the piano, get better at rock climbing, and finally learn to paint. I'll probably do some travel as well. Thank you Ocasio-Cortez!
I'm sure I'll make much more money than you just by keeping my job, though.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 12:35 PM   #107
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,059
Originally Posted by Donal View Post
Is that really less productive than stocking shelves at WalMart?
Goes to walmart to buy inner tubes, beer and a book to read.

Sees shelves are empty.

Making the points my man!
__________________
I'm your obsession
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 12:36 PM   #108
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 42,616
Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
I think the key thing would be to convert aircraft to run on cow flatulence. There's a whole new industry just waiting to be created, the capture, containment, and transportation of Bovine Generated Aviation Propellent. Who says you can't kill one bird with two stones?
Bring back zeppilins!
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 12:47 PM   #109
lomiller
Philosopher
 
lomiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 9,529
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
An excellent question. Which of those two activities do you think should come with a guaranteed living wage?
nm
__________________
"Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"
lomiller is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 12:54 PM   #110
sir drinks-a-lot
Illuminator
 
sir drinks-a-lot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Cole Valley, CA
Posts: 3,613
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I'm sure I'll make much more money than you just by keeping my job, though.
I appreciate the food and housing. Thanks!
__________________
I drink to the general joy o' th' whole table. --William Shakespeare
sir drinks-a-lot is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 12:56 PM   #111
lomiller
Philosopher
 
lomiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 9,529
Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
We could do this with clean nuclear power in 10-20 years.
No. Replacing fossil fuels worldwide would require something like 40 000 reactors. Even if you could build that many that quickly, which is impossible in it's own right, they would use up all the global uranium reserves in under a decade. Fuel reprocessing could extend that to ~20 years but the only practical way to fuel that many reactors would be breeder reactors likely burning Thorium.

While there is work ongoing to design such reactors, they are not on the roadmap for production ready reactor designs.
__________________
"Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"
lomiller is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 01:03 PM   #112
Donal
Illuminator
 
Donal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,694
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
An excellent question. Which of those two activities do you think should come with a guaranteed living wage?
Both. No one should be forced into labor just to survive. Society has enough resources to make sure everyone has the basics.

How about we rethink the concept of "work"? Instead of "work or die" we work to better ourselves and the world around us?
Donal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 01:04 PM   #113
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 78,650
Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
I appreciate the food and housing. Thanks!
No problem. I hope you can enjoy living with bare necessities.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 01:05 PM   #114
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 10,399
Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I'd say the biggest problem with nuclear reactors is that we still don't know how to get rid of the waste.
Yes we do. We contain it, which is immeasurably better than pumping it into the atmosphere by the millions of tons.
__________________
As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 01:08 PM   #115
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 78,650
Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
No. Replacing fossil fuels worldwide would require something like 40 000 reactors. Even if you could build that many that quickly, which is impossible in it's own right, they would use up all the global uranium reserves in under a decade. Fuel reprocessing could extend that to ~20 years but the only practical way to fuel that many reactors would be breeder reactors likely burning Thorium.

While there is work ongoing to design such reactors, they are not on the roadmap for production ready reactor designs.
So solar, fusion or we're all ******?
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 01:09 PM   #116
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 10,399
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Even that number may be exaggerated, due to extrapolated unknowns for the Chernobyl accident.
Yep, that was my absolute worst case end of the possible results. The more likely result is less than 200
__________________
As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 01:13 PM   #117
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 42,616
Apparently the Chernobyle disaster is a plot point in the upcoming Sequel to "Wonder Woman".
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 01:15 PM   #118
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 78,650
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Yep, that was my absolute worst case end of the possible results. The more likely result is less than 200
Which is insanely low. There is no other energy sector that compares to nuclear.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 01:17 PM   #119
Drewbot
Philosopher
 
Drewbot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,860
Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
No. Replacing fossil fuels worldwide would require something like 40 000 reactors. Even if you could build that many that quickly, which is impossible in it's own right, they would use up all the global uranium reserves in under a decade. Fuel reprocessing could extend that to ~20 years but the only practical way to fuel that many reactors would be breeder reactors likely burning Thorium.

While there is work ongoing to design such reactors, they are not on the roadmap for production ready reactor designs.
Thanks for the info, I was thinking the GND applied to the US , how many reactors would we need to add to eliminate just electrical generation?
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker
"I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325
Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic
Drewbot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th February 2019, 01:20 PM   #120
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 31,732
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Apparently the Chernobyle disaster is a plot point in the upcoming Sequel to "Wonder Woman".
I like it. Seems like the kind of disaster that you could easily write a superhero into, if that was your thing.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:02 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.