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Old 12th July 2019, 10:11 PM   #1
crescent
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Protesters replace American flag with Mexican flag

Protesters at ICE facility in Aurora pull down American flag and raise Mexican flag

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Protesters upset with the federal immigration roundups that may occur this weekend in Denver gathered Friday night at the ICE facility in Aurora.

The majority of protesters on site were doing so in a peaceful and law-abiding manner. Another group stormed the barriers near the building and pulled down an American flag off the flag pole in front of the facility and replaced it with a Mexican flag.
They proceeded to spray paint "Abolish ICE" on an American flag and put it back up again, upside down. It seems to have been one of the "Blue Lives Matter" flags, or maybe a modified American flag with the red stripes and blue field replaced with black (similar to a protest version of the Puerto Rican flag). The image is not clear enough to tell from.

Counter-productive to the max. Way to validate the fears of your opponents.

I mean, I am certainly no Trumpy, I'm horrified the treatment the asylum seeking immigrants have faced, by the family separations, by Trump's attitude, the deaths of children in detention, the encouragement of brutality by ICE.

But could this particular group of protesters have been any dumber?
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Old 12th July 2019, 11:04 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Protesters at ICE facility in Aurora pull down American flag and raise Mexican flag



They proceeded to spray paint "Abolish ICE" on an American flag and put it back up again, upside down. It seems to have been one of the "Blue Lives Matter" flags, or maybe a modified American flag with the red stripes and blue field replaced with black (similar to a protest version of the Puerto Rican flag). The image is not clear enough to tell from.

Counter-productive to the max. Way to validate the fears of your opponents.

I mean, I am certainly no Trumpy, I'm horrified the treatment the asylum seeking immigrants have faced, by the family separations, by Trump's attitude, the deaths of children in detention, the encouragement of brutality by ICE.

But could this particular group of protesters have been any dumber?
It'll have been antifa protecting you against N(n)azis. Many of their most ardent proponents on this forum will have been absolutely nowhere near this protest.
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Old 12th July 2019, 11:51 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
It'll have been antifa protecting you against N(n)azis. Many of their most ardent proponents on this forum will have been absolutely nowhere near this protest.
There are activists who are not antifa, you know?
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Old 13th July 2019, 01:56 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Counter-productive to the max.
Depends on your goal.

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Way to validate the fears of your opponents.
They hardly need triggering, but more can't hurt.

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I mean, I am certainly no Trumpy,
You say that, but - here you are aiding and abetting them.


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But could this particular group of protesters have been any dumber?
Any dumber than telling us that windmills cause cancer?
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Old 13th July 2019, 03:45 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
They hardly need triggering, but more can't hurt.
It almost starts to sound like soundbites from an abusive relationship "Look what you made me do!", "I swear if you do X I won't be able to control myself!"
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Old 13th July 2019, 06:17 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Protesters at ICE facility in Aurora pull down American flag and raise Mexican flag



They proceeded to spray paint "Abolish ICE" on an American flag and put it back up again, upside down. It seems to have been one of the "Blue Lives Matter" flags, or maybe a modified American flag with the red stripes and blue field replaced with black (similar to a protest version of the Puerto Rican flag). The image is not clear enough to tell from.

Counter-productive to the max. Way to validate the fears of your opponents.

I mean, I am certainly no Trumpy, I'm horrified the treatment the asylum seeking immigrants have faced, by the family separations, by Trump's attitude, the deaths of children in detention, the encouragement of brutality by ICE.

But could this particular group of protesters have been any dumber?
I agree. I DETEST Trump and everything he stands for, but this kind of protest feeds right into what Trumpers think of 'libruls'.
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Old 13th July 2019, 07:04 PM   #7
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The organizers of the main protest were appalled and frightened and infuriated by this. It was a group of about 25 people calling themselves "The Denver Communists", the protest organizers tried to stop them.

“They put us in danger”: Organizers denounce “rogue” protesters who pulled down American flag at Aurora ICE facility rally

Quote:
More than 2,000 people had assembled outside the ICE detention facility in Aurora on Friday night to protest the Trump administration’s planned immigration roundups when Claudia Castillo noticed a commotion.

A group of protesters had broken through a chain marked “Private property – no trespassing,” headed for the front of the detention facility.

Castillo, a 22-year military intelligence major in the U.S. Army and current legal services coordinator for the Colorado Immigrant Rights Coalition, pleaded with the group of about 25 that initially pushed through. This wasn’t part of the plan, she told them. This wouldn’t help. Rather than pull back, members of the group spit on her, shoved her, and cursed at her.
Quote:
Cristian Solano-Córdova, spokesman for the Colorado Immigrant Rights Coalition, spent an hour before the protest convincing an undocumented family member of his to join, assuring the person they’d be safe with so many people around. As the chaos began, he urged the frightened family member to leave.

“These people didn’t take us into consideration,” Solano-Córdova said. “We’re all extremely angry. They actually put us in danger.”
Quote:
For Castillo, the veteran and activist, the attack on the flag felt personal. She served in Iraq and Kuwait, fighting for freedoms back home.

She walked away from the protests that night, her anger melting into disappointment.

“These were our so-called allies,” she said of the protesters. “We’re trying to be completely inclusive. We want ICE to stop caging our sisters and brothers, but not in that manner. It accomplishes nothing.”
The Aurora police chose not to intervene - which seems to me to have a been a good choice. Now they are catching flack for their discretion.
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Old 13th July 2019, 07:14 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I agree. I DETEST Trump and everything he stands for, but this kind of protest feeds right into what Trumpers think of 'libruls'.
Who cares what they think? Conservatives hated Obama for wearing a brown suit and Michelle for wearing a sleeveless dress.

Alternatively Trump could murder a small Mexican child on national television while his wife stands next to him in a thong and probably wouldn't lose supporters.

Democrats could present a candidate as close to Mr. Rogers as possible and they'd still call him the anti-christ and divider and chief. Conservatives control the narrative in this country and liberals can do no right regardless of reality.
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Old 13th July 2019, 07:27 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I agree. I DETEST Trump and everything he stands for, but this kind of protest feeds right into what Trumpers think of 'libruls'.
Seriously, do you think they weren’t going to think that anyway?
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Old 14th July 2019, 06:17 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
There are activists who are not antifa, you know?
Well of course I'm sure but since the T word was used and since we're discussing non whites along with direct action it's gotta be the local conglomeration of left-wing autonomous, militant anti-fascist groups.

If you don't agree with me then you know what that means.
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Old 14th July 2019, 08:09 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I agree. I DETEST Trump and everything he stands for, but this kind of protest feeds right into what Trumpers think of 'libruls'.
I can only add my voice to the "who cares?" Chorus. For all the blathering about "triggered" "snowflake" "beta" "cuck" "SJWs"*, the most oversensitive, frightened group in the US is still right-wing white white folks - men in particular. Simply put, they've always been on top, in their view, so the very notion of being just one group among many seems to terrify them. Obama proposed a republican health care plan, and they start screeching about how he wants to destroy America as revenge for slavery. Some poor Hispanic people show up in Texas, and folks in Wisconsin start hoarding weapons. A Confederate statue is set to be removed, and they gather from around the country to have a torchlit march ranting about the Jews replacing them.

They insist on acting like cornered feral cats, when they could just go about their lives, and they'd generally still have the easiest time finding jobs, the most wealth hoarded, and so forth. But they've insisted on obsessing over the people who work much harder than them for less instead. And they've been doing it for *centuries*, no matter what those people did. So why bother with them? If I don't have a job, I validate their fear that I'm lazy and want a handout. If I have a job, I validate their fear that I'm stealing their good job and leaving them to starve. If I dress in rags, I validate their fear that I'm poor and filthy. If I dress nicely, I validate their fear that I'm spending all of my money instead of saving it up. Hell, we elected a well-qualified, intelligent, articulate, hard-working black guy who genuinely wanted to unify the country, and they insisted that he was the exact opposite, and then stampeded to vote for a white guy who actually *was* the exact opposite.

Who cares?

(By the way, "SJW" is a meaningless sneer term, "triggers" are things that set off actually PTSD and not just someone being upset, and the entire "alpha/beta" concept is based on the behavior of wolves that only shows up when they're in captivity. Also, before you call someone a "cuck", make sure they aren't a black guy with a passing familiarity with porn, because they might just turn it on you immediately.)

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Old 14th July 2019, 08:44 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
I can only add my voice to the "who cares?" Chorus. For all the blathering about "triggered" "snowflake" "beta" "cuck" "SJWs"*, the most oversensitive, frightened group in the US is still right-wing white white folks - men in particular. Simply put, they've always been on top, in their view, so the very notion of being just one group among many seems to terrify them. Obama proposed a republican health care plan, and they start screeching about how he wants to destroy America as revenge for slavery. Some poor Hispanic people show up in Texas, and folks in Wisconsin start hoarding weapons. A Confederate statue is set to be removed, and they gather from around the country to have a torchlit march ranting about the Jews replacing them.

They insist on acting like cornered feral cats, when they could just go about their lives, and they'd generally still have the easiest time finding jobs, the most wealth hoarded, and so forth. But they've insisted on obsessing over the people who work much harder than them for less instead. And they've been doing it for *centuries*, no matter what those people did. So why bother with them? If I don't have a job, I validate their fear that I'm lazy and want a handout. If I have a job, I validate their fear that I'm stealing their good job and leaving them to starve. If I dress in rags, I validate their fear that I'm poor and filthy. If I dress nicely, I validate their fear that I'm spending all of my money instead of saving it up. Hell, we elected a well-qualified, intelligent, articulate, hard-working black guy who genuinely wanted to unify the country, and they insisted that he was the exact opposite, and then stampeded to vote for a white guy who actually *was* the exact opposite.

Who cares?

(By the way, "SJW" is a meaningless sneer term, "triggers" are things that set off actually PTSD and not just someone being upset, and the entire "alpha/beta" concept is based on the behavior of wolves that only shows up when they're in captivity. Also, before you call someone a "cuck", make sure they aren't a black guy with a passing familiarity with porn, because they might just turn it on you immediately.)
Too right, to this 56 y.o. while dude.
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Old 14th July 2019, 09:00 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Seriously, do you think they weren’t going to think that anyway?
There still seems to be some people who at least claim to think there's some magic formula by which liberals/Democrats can reach out to Trumpistas and somehow win them over.
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Old 14th July 2019, 10:24 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
There still seems to be some people who at least claim to think there's some magic formula by which liberals/Democrats can reach out to Trumpistas and somehow win them over.
The most that happens with this is a bunch of memes are made with r/forwardsfromgrandma level thinking with the usual “People putting up the Mexican flag in the US should be SHOT, like and share if you agree!” and I doubt anyway will be converted, just the racist rage-addicts will turn it up a notch.

My only real objection is that in light of recent events it should be a Honduran flag.
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Old 14th July 2019, 10:59 AM   #15
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To an outsider the posturing and invective from you lot is hilarious. Zealots, every one of you.
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Old 14th July 2019, 12:10 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Juniversal View Post
Who cares what they think? Conservatives hated Obama for wearing a brown suit and Michelle for wearing a sleeveless dress.

Alternatively Trump could murder a small Mexican child on national television while his wife stands next to him in a thong and probably wouldn't lose supporters.

Democrats could present a candidate as close to Mr. Rogers as possible and they'd still call him the anti-christ and divider and chief. Conservatives control the narrative in this country and liberals can do no right regardless of reality.
Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Seriously, do you think they weren’t going to think that anyway?
Are you saying that this kind of behavior is acceptable because Trump supporters are going to think that anyway?
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Old 14th July 2019, 12:14 PM   #17
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I know that there are Trump supporters that will continue to support him no matter what anyone says or does...including Trump. But that does not mean we have to condone this kind of behavior. To think otherwise makes us as bad as them. How you can think otherwise is mind boggling.
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Old 14th July 2019, 12:33 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
I can only add my voice to the "who cares?" Chorus. For all the blathering about "triggered" "snowflake" "beta" "cuck" "SJWs"*, the most oversensitive, frightened group in the US is still right-wing white white folks - men in particular. Simply put, they've always been on top, in their view, so the very notion of being just one group among many seems to terrify them. Obama proposed a republican health care plan, and they start screeching about how he wants to destroy America as revenge for slavery. Some poor Hispanic people show up in Texas, and folks in Wisconsin start hoarding weapons. A Confederate statue is set to be removed, and they gather from around the country to have a torchlit march ranting about the Jews replacing them.

They insist on acting like cornered feral cats, when they could just go about their lives, and they'd generally still have the easiest time finding jobs, the most wealth hoarded, and so forth. But they've insisted on obsessing over the people who work much harder than them for less instead. And they've been doing it for *centuries*, no matter what those people did. So why bother with them? If I don't have a job, I validate their fear that I'm lazy and want a handout. If I have a job, I validate their fear that I'm stealing their good job and leaving them to starve. If I dress in rags, I validate their fear that I'm poor and filthy. If I dress nicely, I validate their fear that I'm spending all of my money instead of saving it up. Hell, we elected a well-qualified, intelligent, articulate, hard-working black guy who genuinely wanted to unify the country, and they insisted that he was the exact opposite, and then stampeded to vote for a white guy who actually *was* the exact opposite.

Who cares?

(By the way, "SJW" is a meaningless sneer term, "triggers" are things that set off actually PTSD and not just someone being upset, and the entire "alpha/beta" concept is based on the behavior of wolves that only shows up when they're in captivity. Also, before you call someone a "cuck", make sure they aren't a black guy with a passing familiarity with porn, because they might just turn it on you immediately.)
Well said. The support from white evangelicals speaks to this dissonance in perception between the left and the right in American politics. Obama was the anti-Christ while being diplomatic, polite and scandal free while Trump is sent from God despite being a selfish, infantile, adulterous narcissist who's produced more scandals than we can keep track of (guess maintaining old testament traditions).
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Old 14th July 2019, 12:38 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Are you saying that this kind of behavior is acceptable because Trump supporters are going to think that anyway?
Nope.
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Old 14th July 2019, 12:56 PM   #20
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The Mexican flag features an eagle biting a snake. That is clearly awesome and should be acknowledged as such, regardless of politics.
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Old 14th July 2019, 01:01 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I agree. I DETEST Trump and everything he stands for, but this kind of protest feeds right into what Trumpers think of 'libruls'.
Originally Posted by Juniversal View Post
Who cares what they think? Conservatives hated Obama for wearing a brown suit and Michelle for wearing a sleeveless dress.

Alternatively Trump could murder a small Mexican child on national television while his wife stands next to him in a thong and probably wouldn't lose supporters.

Democrats could present a candidate as close to Mr. Rogers as possible and they'd still call him the anti-christ and divider and chief. Conservatives control the narrative in this country and liberals can do no right regardless of reality.
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Are you saying that this kind of behavior is acceptable because Trump supporters are going to think that anyway?
Originally Posted by Juniversal View Post
Nope.
Then what you are saying isn't clear to me.
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Old 14th July 2019, 03:13 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
I can only add my voice to the "who cares?" Chorus. For all the blathering about "triggered" "snowflake" "beta" "cuck" "SJWs"*, the most oversensitive, frightened group in the US is still right-wing white white folks - men in particular. Simply put, they've always been on top, in their view, so the very notion of being just one group among many seems to terrify them. Obama proposed a republican health care plan, and they start screeching about how he wants to destroy America as revenge for slavery. Some poor Hispanic people show up in Texas, and folks in Wisconsin start hoarding weapons. A Confederate statue is set to be removed, and they gather from around the country to have a torchlit march ranting about the Jews replacing them.

They insist on acting like cornered feral cats, when they could just go about their lives, and they'd generally still have the easiest time finding jobs, the most wealth hoarded, and so forth. But they've insisted on obsessing over the people who work much harder than them for less instead. And they've been doing it for *centuries*, no matter what those people did. So why bother with them? If I don't have a job, I validate their fear that I'm lazy and want a handout. If I have a job, I validate their fear that I'm stealing their good job and leaving them to starve. If I dress in rags, I validate their fear that I'm poor and filthy. If I dress nicely, I validate their fear that I'm spending all of my money instead of saving it up. Hell, we elected a well-qualified, intelligent, articulate, hard-working black guy who genuinely wanted to unify the country, and they insisted that he was the exact opposite, and then stampeded to vote for a white guy who actually *was* the exact opposite.

Who cares?

(By the way, "SJW" is a meaningless sneer term, "triggers" are things that set off actually PTSD and not just someone being upset, and the entire "alpha/beta" concept is based on the behavior of wolves that only shows up when they're in captivity. Also, before you call someone a "cuck", make sure they aren't a black guy with a passing familiarity with porn, because they might just turn it on you immediately.)
1) Diverse societies are far more prone to conflict and fragmentation. Austria Hungary, Brazil, Syria, USSR, Myanmar and India all demonstrate this and they were/are far more multicultural than most nation states today.

2) "We truly love America and just want to make it better!" is fundamentally irreconcilable with "AmeriKKKa is stolen land and worse than Nazi Germany!" (just go on left Reddit or Rose Twitter, it's not exactly a fringe opinion on the left)

3) The current political climate is either "America has gone to ****" or "AmeriKKKA was is and always will be ****"

4) PTSD usually implies something along the lines of kidnapping or extremely abusive relationships, NOT "I read a Young Adult novel and cried about it!"
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Old 14th July 2019, 04:07 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Then what you are saying isn't clear to me.
Simple. I can condemn the actions all the while realizing conservatives will label liberals as extremist for the most innocent and mundane behavior so I really dont care what they think cause there's no level of decorum or policy that will change that.
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Old 14th July 2019, 05:50 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Juniversal View Post
Simple. I can condemn the actions all the while realizing conservatives will label liberals as extremist for the most innocent and mundane behavior so I really dont care what they think cause there's no level of decorum or policy that will change that.
You say this in a thread about liberals behaving as extremists with the exact opposite of innocent and mudane behavior?
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Old 14th July 2019, 06:00 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Juniversal View Post
Simple. I can condemn the actions all the while realizing conservatives will label liberals as extremist for the most innocent and mundane behavior so I really dont care what they think cause there's no level of decorum or policy that will change that.
Yes, but in your post that I was replying to, you never condemned the protesters' actions. You just said "Who cares what they (conservatives)think?" My post was a condemnation of the protesters' behavior and how it feeds into what conservatives think of 'libruls'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juniversal
Who cares what they think? Conservatives hated Obama for wearing a brown suit and Michelle for wearing a sleeveless dress.

Alternatively Trump could murder a small Mexican child on national television while his wife stands next to him in a thong and probably wouldn't lose supporters.

Democrats could present a candidate as close to Mr. Rogers as possible and they'd still call him the anti-christ and divider and chief. Conservatives control the narrative in this country and liberals can do no right regardless of reality.
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Old 14th July 2019, 06:30 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
But could this particular group of protesters have been any dumber?
There's always room for improvement. I'm sure someone will find a way to be dumber.


(Other than that, though, your point is well taken.)
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Old 14th July 2019, 06:37 PM   #27
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Not the flag! That’s right get outraged about how some protest and ignore the issue they are protesting about.
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Old 14th July 2019, 06:37 PM   #28
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Old 14th July 2019, 06:51 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
You say this in a thread about liberals behaving as extremists with the exact opposite of innocent and mudane behavior?
To be fair, the actual consequences of the protestors' actions was that a couple of easily replaceable bits of cloth were damaged, so that's not really extreme, and is kind of mundane.

It's lousy optics. It serves no purpose. It's a dumb idea but, in the grand scheme of things, I would much rather they damage flags than people. So, I'm really of two minds on this. On the one hand, I'm kind of appalled at how counterproductive it is. On the other hand, it's not something I can be genuinely outraged about. A flag is cloth. Yes, it upsets people when you do things to one that they find significant, and for that reason, vandalizing the American flag, or some other flag that would upset people if it were vandalized is just generally a bad idea. On the other hand, I actually wish all the upset people would calm down. It's free speech, even if, nay, especially if, it makes people mad.
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Old 14th July 2019, 06:53 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
You say this in a thread about liberals behaving as extremists with the exact opposite of innocent and mudane behavior?
Liberal extremists? Oh awesome!

Yep, these fargin bastages are out of control. I mean, first they raise a Mexican flag. In Ametica, for Pete sake! Before you know it, they will be....voting for politicians that don't hate immigrants. Can you imagine?

Meanwhile, right-wing extremists do things like send bombs to democratic elected officials.

So funny.
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Old 14th July 2019, 07:06 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
You say this in a thread about liberals behaving as extremists with the exact opposite of innocent and mudane behavior?
I'll restate it for clarity sake if that'll make you happy. Conservatives will label liberals extremist regardless of if the behavior is extremist or not, so I wouldn't go around trying to go on a campaign trying to change hearts and minds. Better?
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Old 14th July 2019, 07:16 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Yes, but in your post that I was replying to, you never condemned the protesters' actions. You just said "Who cares what they (conservatives)think?" My post was a condemnation of the protesters' behavior and how it feeds into what conservatives think of 'libruls'.
Because it was irrelevant to my point. Point was that liberals can play the polite, diplomatic, compromising role like Obama and will still get labeled an evil muslim terrorist so I couldn't care less what they think.
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Old 14th July 2019, 08:41 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Juniversal View Post
Because it was irrelevant to my point. Point was that liberals can play the polite, diplomatic, compromising role like Obama and will still get labeled an evil muslim terrorist so I couldn't care less what they think.
Therein lies my confusion as to your post; it was irrelevant to my post's point.
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Old 14th July 2019, 08:59 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
You say this in a thread about liberals behaving as extremists with the exact opposite of innocent and mudane behavior?
And a thread that expressed concern over the opinions of people who think "respect" for the flag involves groping one on stage, or fashioning one into a thong (image not provided). I mean, what the hell is this ****?

At the very least, the protestors know what they're doing when they replace the US flag. It's *supposed* to be an act of defiance, anger, and protest against a plainly and violently white supremacist administration. In a very real way, they respect what the flag represents, what it should represent, and the increasing chasm between the two in a way that the flag-gropers don't.
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Old 14th July 2019, 08:59 PM   #35
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How do we know they weren't Trump supporters? Ever hear of a false flag operation?
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Old 14th July 2019, 09:02 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Therein lies my confusion as to your post; it was irrelevant to my post's point.
As a reminder, you wrote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I agree. I DETEST Trump and everything he stands for, but this kind of protest feeds right into what Trumpers think of 'libruls'.
The point we're making is that we have no reason to concern ourselves with what Trumpers think of anyone else, because they're detached from reality in any case, and will believe their fearful and hate-filled nonsense regardless of what anyone else does.
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Old 14th July 2019, 09:37 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
As a reminder, you wrote:



The point we're making is that we have no reason to concern ourselves with what Trumpers think of anyone else, because they're detached from reality in any case, and will believe their fearful and hate-filled nonsense regardless of what anyone else does.

You think people on the right and in the middle don't think the left is detached from reality too? I sure do, the ones getting the publicity anyways.

There are a lot of non-Trumpers who will be voting soon and are watching all of this. Even Pelosi sees that the Dems are in trouble and being fragmented. Trump losing in 2020 is not a sure thing

This attitude is shortsighted.

Unfortunately the Repubs will not challenge Trump in 2020, and the Dems are not looking very intelligent. What's a non-Trumper / non-left wing dingbat to do?
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Old 14th July 2019, 09:49 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
You think people on the right and in the middle don't think the left is detached from reality too? I sure do, the ones getting the publicity anyways.

There are a lot of non-Trumpers who will be voting soon and are watching all of this. Even Pelosi sees that the Dems are in trouble and being fragmented. Trump losing in 2020 is not a sure thing

This attitude is shortsighted.

Unfortunately the Repubs will not challenge Trump in 2020, and the Dems are not looking very intelligent. What's a non-Trumper / non-left wing dingbat to do?
I always love it when people think the understand what is going on. Very little of what happens now matters in 16 months..
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Old 14th July 2019, 10:19 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Therein lies my confusion as to your post; it was irrelevant to my post's point.
I was responding to the idea that this feeds into the negative perception "Trumpers" have of liberals. Once again I couldn't care less
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Old 14th July 2019, 10:23 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
How do we know they weren't Trump supporters? Ever hear of a false flag operation?
Did lol
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