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Tags 2020 elections , Elizabeth Warren , Massachusetts politics , presidential candidates , racial categorization , racial isssues

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Old 15th October 2018, 11:21 AM   #401
River
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Oh, you meanTrump was publucly challenging a claim that she didn't actually make? Thanks for clarifying.
It showed she wasn't. Not by any tribes requirements. She is not even close to the threshold.

But its funny to watch the arguments. Apparently you missed this part:

Quote:
Dean’s offices provided their lists of professors; those who had not previously provided a biographical sketch were asked to complete a new faculty questionnaire.

As for their minority status, the director states, it includes “those legal educators who stated they were members of a minority group.’’
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Last edited by River; 15th October 2018 at 11:24 AM.
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Old 15th October 2018, 11:22 AM   #402
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
In the old days, when this was a site for critical thinking, people would have analyzed the statement. I see that does not happen much anymore, but lets consider it a challenge, anyone?
If you really believe that "You should do X" and "You should never do X" do not contradict one another, then you are choosing a very strange hill to die on.
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Old 15th October 2018, 11:23 AM   #403
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Oh, you meanTrump was publucly challenging a claim that she didn't actually make? Thanks for clarifying.
wait, she didn't make that claim, but then and went and got tested and released garbage results anyway?

That is sad and hilarious!
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Old 15th October 2018, 11:23 AM   #404
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Originally Posted by River View Post
It showed she wasn't. Not by any tribes requirements. She is not even close to the threshold.

But its funny to watch the arguments.
We didn't establish that was the test.
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Old 15th October 2018, 11:24 AM   #405
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If Rachel Dolezal can identify as being African-American, I certainly don't see what's wrong with Elizabeth Warren identifying as being Native American. Sure, Warren could quite possibly have less Indian in her than Dolezal has black, but isn't it what they both feel inside that really matters?!


Quote:
Not until she had been teaching at Penn for two years did she authorize the university to change her personnel designation from white to Native American, the records show.

The Globe also reviewed, for the first time, a Harvard University human resources form showing that Warren first listed her ethnicity as Native American nearly five months after she started her tenured position at Harvard and 2½ years after she was there as a visiting professor and first offered the job.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nat...O0K/story.html
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Old 15th October 2018, 11:27 AM   #406
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This whole thing is sort of hard to reconcile with the "Cultural Appropriation Fetish" crowd.

I can't imagine the kind of person who was crapping kittens over Johnny Depp playing Tonto or a white person wearing dreadlocks being okay with this.
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Old 15th October 2018, 11:27 AM   #407
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Originally Posted by River View Post
It showed she wasn't. Not by any tribes requirements. She is not even close to the threshold.
Tribal membership is not a requirement for ancestral DNA.

Quote:
But its funny to watch the arguments.
Yes, it is funny to see the bigot enablers bend over backwards to deny what a DNA test plainly states.

Quote:
Apparently you missed this part:
Irrelevant. Its been brought up multiple times in this thread (although we've seen how you fail to read the threads you post in) and it means nothing. She wasn't hired for her minority status, nor did she otherwise benefit from it.
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Old 15th October 2018, 11:28 AM   #408
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
If you really believe that "You should do X" and "You should never do X" do not contradict one another, then you are choosing a very strange hill to die on.
Those are NOT the two alternatives. try again.
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Old 15th October 2018, 11:29 AM   #409
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
If you really believe that "You should do X" and "You should never do X" do not contradict one another, then you are choosing a very strange hill to die on.
And yet another example of the hyperpartisans whining about "but this is a skeptics forum' when we don't agree with their convoluted logic.
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Old 15th October 2018, 11:30 AM   #410
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
This whole thing is sort of hard to reconcile with the "Cultural Appropriation Fetish" crowd.

I can't imagine the kind of person who was crapping kittens over Johnny Depp playing Tonto or a white person wearing dreadlocks being okay with this.
She didn't view it as a culture she wasn't a part of.
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Old 15th October 2018, 11:31 AM   #411
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Those are NOT the two alternatives. try again.
Did you miss the highlights?
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Old 15th October 2018, 11:35 AM   #412
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Did you miss the highlights?
Nope, I saw them!

"Ha! What an idiot! She should just take the test! The fact that she's not taken a test just proves that she's lying!" and "Ha! What an idiot! She should never have taken the test!"

v.

"You should do X" and "You should never do X"

there are several differences, one is particularly crucial.
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Old 15th October 2018, 11:35 AM   #413
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
This whole thing is sort of hard to reconcile with the "Cultural Appropriation Fetish" crowd.

I can't imagine the kind of person who was crapping kittens over Johnny Depp playing Tonto or a white person wearing dreadlocks being okay with this.
The flip side of that coin is the people barfing puppies over people crapping kittens over Johnny Depp playing tonto, are now the same people crapping kittens over Warren's ancestral (or lack there of) ties to Native American blood.



Last edited by gregthehammer; 15th October 2018 at 11:37 AM. Reason: added apostrphe and s to Warren
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Old 15th October 2018, 11:39 AM   #414
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Good old Conspiracy Theorist tactics: When the evidence debunks you, just dance and sing and hope nobody notices.
There is no evidence that "debunks" me because there is no evidence. It's a fraud. Shes 1/1024 something that could be Native American and could be anyone who came across the land bridge. That means when she says her Cherokee mother had to elope because Injuns couldn't get married in those parts it was a lie.

You guys just never give up, regardless of the actual evidence. It reminds me of Zimmerman, Darren Wilson, and Amanda Knox.

Last edited by BrooklynBaby; 15th October 2018 at 11:40 AM.
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Old 15th October 2018, 11:42 AM   #415
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
There is no evidence that "debunks" me because there is no evidence. It's a fraud. Shes 1/1024 something that could be Native American and could be anyone who came across the land bridge. That means when she says her Cherokee mother had to elope because Injuns couldn't get married in those parts it was a lie.

You guys just never give up, regardless of the actual evidence.


But it is somewhat entertaining to watch the gymnastics routine. Feelings mannnn, she feels NA. Does affirmative action apply to her because shes feels she is a minority?
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Old 15th October 2018, 11:44 AM   #416
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Originally Posted by River View Post
But it is somewhat entertaining to watch the gymnastics routine. Feelings mannnn, she feels NA. Does affirmative action apply to her because shes feels she is a minority?
Can you show us on the doll where Elizabeth Warren hurt you?

She claimed Native ancestry based on familial stories.
She was challenged to take a DNA test.
She took a DNA test which confirmed her familial stories.

Conservative snowflakes all upset because her claim turned out to be based in fact.
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Old 15th October 2018, 11:45 AM   #417
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
That means when she says her Cherokee mother had to elope because Injuns couldn't get married in those parts it was a lie.
aaannnd here we go again. She never said that - any of it. You are repeating lies, making up things she never claimed. Lies, either you yourself are lying, or you are repeating lies made by other people. Either way, that's not what she claimed.

She said they eloped because of disapproval by relatives, due to partial native ancestry.

Which might be as low as what you stated, but which may also be as high as 1/64.
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Old 15th October 2018, 11:45 AM   #418
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
There is no evidence that "debunks" me because there is no evidence. It's a fraud. Shes 1/1024 something that could be Native American and could be anyone who came across the land bridge. That means when she says her Cherokee mother had to elope because Injuns couldn't get married in those parts it was a lie.

You guys just never give up, regardless of the actual evidence. It reminds me of Zimmerman, Darren Wilson, and Amanda Knox.
If they crossed the land bridge, isn't that native American?

Also, not a lie if she believed it.
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Old 15th October 2018, 11:48 AM   #419
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Can you show us on the doll where Elizabeth Warren hurt you?

She claimed Native ancestry based on familial stories.
She was challenged to take a DNA test.
She took a DNA test which confirmed her familial stories.

Conservative snowflakes all upset because her claim turned out to be based in fact.
It doesn't confirm the stories.
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Old 15th October 2018, 11:52 AM   #420
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
There is no evidence that "debunks" me because there is no evidence. It's a fraud.
Really. You find DNA evidence to be a fraud.

Quote:
Shes 1/1024 something that could be Native American and could be anyone who came across the land bridge.
Tell me, who else came over the land-bridge?

Quote:
That means when she says her Cherokee mother had to elope because Injuns couldn't get married in those parts it was a lie.
She never said that. So who is the fraud here? Oh its you.

Quote:
You guys just never give up, regardless of the actual evidence.
Says the guy denying DNA evidence.
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Old 15th October 2018, 11:52 AM   #421
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
It doesn't confirm the stories.
Family said there was ancestry. DNA says she has ancestry.
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Old 15th October 2018, 11:55 AM   #422
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Bustamante said that Warren’s test results show the “vast majority” of her ancestry is European, but that “the results strongly support the existence of an unadmixed Native American ancestor,” likely 6-10 generations ago.

Wait, wait, wait... she released this to SUPPORT her claim? That is hilarious.

And leftists are buying it?
Depends what her original claim were.

Oh, that's right. You don't care about that. You cast your lot with opposing anything that someone on the "left" says. Now that you've been caught and that her original claim has been demonstrated, you must therefore move the goalposts.

Oh dear.

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I... don't... care. I don't understand why Elizabeth Warren thought her homeopathic level of Native Americaness was something any of us were the least bit interested in and I don't care that the Republicans think it's a hill to die defending.

There is no angle to approach this discussion from that isn't stupid.
It's worth discussing only as yet another exploration of the power of tribalism. In this case, right-wing tribalism. They just can't admit it.
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Old 15th October 2018, 11:56 AM   #423
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Nope, I saw them!

"Ha! What an idiot! She should just take the test! The fact that she's not taken a test just proves that she's lying!" and "Ha! What an idiot! She should never have taken the test!"

v.

"You should do X" and "You should never do X"

there are several differences, one is particularly crucial.
Well we can remove "Ha! What an idiot!" as it exists in both. We're left with:

1. She should just take the test! The fact that she's not taken a test just proves that she's lying!

2. She should never have taken the test!

So, possible explanations of why these are compatible?

A. Trump changed his mind between making the two statements, from that she should take the test, to that she shouldn't.

B. Since she has now taken the test, the second sentence in the statement #1 is no longer applicable. Not sure how that could make the statements compatible.

C. Some other explanation. I'm stumped for the moment. You could maybe argue "a" test is different than "the" test. That would be weak.

D. He was being disingenuous one or both times.

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Old 15th October 2018, 11:58 AM   #424
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
It's worth discussing only as yet another exploration of the power of tribalism. In this case, right-wing tribalism. They just can't admit it.
I think we've safely established tribalism as a real world phenomenon at this point.
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Old 15th October 2018, 11:58 AM   #425
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
"You ****** up. You trusted us."
The Republican party in a nutshell nowadays.
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Old 15th October 2018, 12:01 PM   #426
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Family said there was ancestry. DNA says she has ancestry.
Starting with her grandmother she claimed ancestry. We don't know if any other human being before her did. We don't know if anyone else did. We don't know if any of the eloping story is true.


There is context to these claims as Sooner in origin. Suppose my parents were from Normandy and Gotha and that I claimed an ancestry of English royalty. And a test confirms I'm descended from Aethelwulf. It is clear from the context of my claim that I was linking my story to the Normans or the Windsors. Finding saxon royalty doesn't prove me right.
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Old 15th October 2018, 12:03 PM   #427
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Starting with her grandmother she claimed ancestry. We don't know if any other human being before her did. We don't know if anyone else did. We don't know if any of the eloping story is true.


There is context to these claims as Sooner in origin. Suppose my parents were from Normandy and Gotha and that I claimed an ancestry of English royalty. And a test confirms I'm descended from Aethelwulf. It is clear from the context of my claim that I was linking my story to the Normans or the Windsors. Finding saxon royalty doesn't prove me right.
Family said there was ancestry. DNA says she has ancestry.
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Old 15th October 2018, 12:03 PM   #428
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After reading today all the pages concerning the DNA results, one thing is disturbingly clear: Trump supporters will twist themselves into seemingly impossible knots not to admit that Trump was wrong. They'd rather make themselves look ridiculous. And they do. It's entertaining, yet scary, to watch. It's just another piece of evidence that Trump was right regarding shooting someone in Times Square and his voters.
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Old 15th October 2018, 12:03 PM   #429
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
aaannnd here we go again. She never said that - any of it. You are repeating lies, making up things she never claimed. Lies, either you yourself are lying, or you are repeating lies made by other people. Either way, that's not what she claimed.

She said they eloped because of disapproval by relatives, due to partial native ancestry.

Which might be as low as what you stated, but which may also be as high as 1/64.
I hate to embarrass you like this, but I posted a link to her saying that earlier.
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Old 15th October 2018, 12:04 PM   #430
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
It appears that none of the people who were involved in hiring her actually used that as a factor in hiring her. So again, no real advantage to her.

https://www.apnews.com/4d83eff785f146c6a20754a61f5fa503
Yeah but that isn't the claim. The claim is that she used it to gain an advantage, not that it was successful.

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
And it was stupid to rely on it then, too.
Retroactively!

Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
She provides proof she lied and Dems declare victory.
If you think she did that, then you have not understood what happened.

Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
I'm an uneducated rube, so it's really not my fault.
Oh? Not a deplorable?
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Old 15th October 2018, 12:06 PM   #431
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Family said there was ancestry. DNA says she has ancestry.
They listed a tribe and that it was detectable enough to affect a relationship. The distance of the ancestry affects those claims.
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Old 15th October 2018, 12:06 PM   #432
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Originally Posted by Imhotep View Post
Well we can remove "Ha! What an idiot!" as it exists in both. We're left with:

1. She should just take the test! The fact that she's not taken a test just proves that she's lying!

2. She should never have taken the test!

So, possible explanations of why these are compatible?

A. Trump changed his mind between making the two statements, from that she should take the test, to that she shouldn't.

B. Since she has now taken the test, the second sentence in the statement #1 is no longer applicable. Not sure how that could make the statements compatible.

C. Some other explanation. I'm stumped for the moment. You could maybe argue "a" test is different than "the" test. That would be weak.

D. He was being disingenuous one or both times.
D. is certainly one theory, and in fact that is the very theory I have heard from some members of the left today.

I was thinking more along the lines of the results of the test...
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Old 15th October 2018, 12:07 PM   #433
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
They listed a tribe and that it was detectable enough to affect a relationship. The distance of the ancestry affects those claims.
Family said there was ancestry. DNA says she has ancestry.
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Old 15th October 2018, 12:08 PM   #434
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
Here's Fauxcahontas talking about her Cherokee and Delaware heritage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLI3...ature=youtu.be
What are you, 12? Can you call people by their names?

Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
That's 'weird' you did not actually address my post... hmmm.

Betsy's expert consulted for 23 and me. 23 and me says:

"The results have a margin of error of plus or minus 3.1 percent and a confidence level of 95 percent."

Uh oh, I am pretty sure that her claim falls well within the margin of error.

We are talking Science, so CERTAINLY our hero told us what the margin of error was, right?
I love how you use Warren using the most charitable interpretation to her advantage as a dodge to ignore Trump's downright dishonesty and cowardice.
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Old 15th October 2018, 12:09 PM   #435
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Family said there was ancestry. DNA says she has ancestry.
You can't just take part of the claim. They claim is more than that singular piece of it.
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Old 15th October 2018, 12:10 PM   #436
Shalamar
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
You can't just take part of the claim. They claim is more than that singular piece of it.
Family said there was ancestry. DNA says she has ancestry.
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Old 15th October 2018, 12:10 PM   #437
Imhotep
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
D. is certainly one theory, and in fact that is the very theory I have heard from some members of the left today.

I was thinking more along the lines of the results of the test...
You seem to be suggesting that not only did not taking the test prove she was lying, but so did taking the test. So that would logically lead us to conclude that she was lying regardless of whether she took the test or not.

That seems to work out okay, but still fails to address the proposition of whether or not she should take the test, which remains at odds as the two statements of "she should" and "she should never" remain incompatible.
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Old 15th October 2018, 12:13 PM   #438
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
There is no evidence that "debunks" me because there is no evidence. It's a fraud. Shes 1/1024 something that could be Native American and could be anyone who came across the land bridge. That means when she says her Cherokee mother had to elope because Injuns couldn't get married in those parts it was a lie.

You guys just never give up, regardless of the actual evidence. It reminds me of Zimmerman, Darren Wilson, and Amanda Knox.
Originally Posted by crescent View Post
aaannnd here we go again. She never said that - any of it. You are repeating lies, making up things she never claimed. Lies, either you yourself are lying, or you are repeating lies made by other people. Either way, that's not what she claimed.

She said they eloped because of disapproval by relatives, due to partial native ancestry.

Which might be as low as what you stated, but which may also be as high as 1/64.
Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
I hate to embarrass you like this, but I posted a link to her saying that earlier.
No, that is not what she said at all. She never said "injuns" (sic) couldn't get married in those parts". What she said was :

Quote:
“You know, my mom and dad were born and raised out in Oklahoma, and my daddy was in his teens when he fell in love with my mother,” the Massachusetts Democrat told Fox News Sunday. “She was a beautiful girl who played the piano. And he was head over heels in love with her and wanted to marry her. And his family was bitterly opposed to that because she was part Native American.”
I suggest you read more carefully so you stop embarrassing yourself like this.
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Old 15th October 2018, 12:13 PM   #439
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Family said there was ancestry. DNA says she has ancestry.
A claim based on wrong assumptions is not true simply because the outcome is true. A result matching a prediction by a psychic does not substantiate their claim.
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Old 15th October 2018, 12:13 PM   #440
Belz...
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
who sees the problem here?
Yes, mostly your interpretation or ignorance of what that means.

Oh dear.

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Oh dear goddamn Jesus backflipping Christ politicians could just jiggle their keys at each other and it would be more meaningful then thus.

So the Republicans don't like the incontrovertible prove that the Democrats provided for their doubt of the claim that nobody has yet explained why anybody bothered to make.

Good. Glad we're all on the same page.
I don't get it. If the thread is so ridiculous, why post in it or read it? I usually avoid the stuff I don't care for.
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